Why there are (reportedly) fewer people visiting Wabakimi today than in the past. I arranged our permit today via the office in TB and had a very pleasant experience. Of course, I have no idea what to actually expect once we get to Armstrong or on the water but we are very excited to have this opportunity.

I personally think the reason for less paddlers is a combination of several things. There are fewer younger paddlers, because kids now days are more into electronic gadgets vs outdoor activities, it's harder to find time to take young folks with sport programs seemingly starting earlier in the school year. The costs of trips is more, fly-in flights are more, cost of gear either self owned or rented costs more, even food is more expensive than a few years ago. Currently gas is cheap but remember how much it was only 2 years ago? Camping permits and Canadian Angling license have went up in the last 3-4 years but not much. Entering and exiting Canada is harder, passports required and some folks can't get them. As us old guys get older we're more reluctant to get that far off the beaten path, seems like the older I get the further get into the bush the happier I am, but then that's me. Lots of reasons for fewer paddlers and it doesn't seem to be many easy solutions, this same situation is in affect in the BWCA, The Q, WCPP, Just my thoughts not reflected by any polls, charts, nor management decisions. FRED

I Concur. Access to Wab is also much harder than the other parks at or south of 50N. It takes a day to paddle in. The train has very limited times and flying in, well, that just plain spendy.

Another issue is the park management takes a different view on marketing and maintaining the park from WCPP and certainly BW, Q, Algonquin, Kilarney, et al. The other parks are aggressively marketed and heavily maintained, except WCPP, which is trying to increase maintenance. The management style for Wab seems to be more hands off than hands on. The visitor count is reduced because the park is not in front of folks when planning and it can be more difficult to navigate through when actually there.

I want to add that the conditions in Wab are what draw me. A little rougher, a little wilder. A real "end of the road" destination.

In 2011 i showed friends and family that the road literally ended at Armstrong. They thought I was crazy. Yeah, crazy like a fox!

I agree with jcavenagh, it's the rougher, wilder, almost abandoned nature of Wabakimi that keeps me going back. Last year on the Big River we cleared portages in a place where no one had paddled in 30 years. In 2010 between Smoothrock Lake and Elf Lake again we were the first people through in 30 years. Portages are overgrown, blazed trees have since died and fallen, campsites are mossed over and covered in lichen. I love that stuff. Unfortunately, it's what keeps a lot of BWCA types away.

quote goatroti: "I agree with jcavenagh, it's the rougher, wilder, almost abandoned nature of Wabakimi that keeps me going back. Last year on the Big River we cleared portages in a place where no one had paddled in 30 years. In 2010 between Smoothrock Lake and Elf Lake again we were the first people through in 30 years. Portages are overgrown, blazed trees have since died and fallen, campsites are mossed over and covered in lichen. I love that stuff. Unfortunately, it's what keeps a lot of BWCA types away. "

I think that the difficulty of getting in plus the problem of the unknown route timing makes it harder for people with a finite amount of vacation time to take a chance on Wabakimi. Most of the folks who write about their trips to the BW, Q, and WCPP know in advance exactly how far they want to go and how long it will take to get there, whether they are base camping or tripping a route or loop. The need to be "out" on a certain day limits the chance-taking aspect of a trip and pretty much requires prior knowledge of the experience anticipated to do a trip in a set time frame. You can wing it if you are open ended, not so much if you have tightly defined responsibilities. The real lure is the joy of meeting obstacles head-on, doing what has to be done, and getting it "all to yourself"--truly a wonderful experience!

Yup.
In 2011 we stayed at a site that clearly had not been used for at least 5 years (probably a lot longer). It took some prep to make it usable again, but it was a beautiful site.

Last summer my campsite had toads living under a few inches of moss in the fire pit. I don't know how long it takes for 2-3 inches of moss to grow on top of ashes, but whatever that time is that is how long it had been since the site was used.

I'm intrigued by Wabakimi, but the time commitment and my paddling skills are the reasons I haven't gone beyond daydreaming. It's on the list and when I'm finally able to dedicate the time, I'll hopefully be a stronger paddler too.

I'm a lucky guy. I'm a teacher. I get the summer off.
Over the last 10 years I've done 12 trips with The Wabakimi Project and have been a leader on 3. I have learned (so much) about paddling, mapping, making campfires, stacking wood, building benches that will last, finding and clearing portages and campsites, cooking in the bush and leadership. There was no curriculum but experience. I've been on the Grayson River, the Ogoki, the Savant, the Albany, the Opichuan and the Big River. Its a great way to prepare yourself for boreal canoeing.
I'm going back again this summer for another week. I've made great friends and have had weeks of fun in the bush. I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything.
If you want to learn about Wabakimi, take a look at one of their trips.

hooky - I know where you are coming from. I took 7 trips to BW/Q before I looked further north. And for my first Wab trip I had some strong partners and one fella who had a lot more paddling experience than me. The Wabakimi Project does 1 week trips and all the logistics are covered. So that may be a good starting point for you. Bookmark their website and look it over early next winter. Maybe with enough lead time you could swing it.

quote goatroti:" Last year on the Big River we cleared portages in a place where no one had paddled in 30 years. Portages are overgrown, blazed trees have since died and fallen, campsites are mossed over and covered in lichen. I love that stuff. Unfortunately, it's what keeps a lot of BWCA types away. "

Ha Ha! A buddy and I went down the Big River in May 1986 on our way to Cliff Lake and on to the Witchwood/Atwood Rivers, and then Albany out to James Bay. Rough country with ZERO roads or logging and some tough portages. We were traveling in a wood/canvas canoe, too...

I know for me, the main thing is the cost. Going anywhere in Canada is exponentially more expensive than it was 20 years ago. My first trip to Quetico in 2002 the daily fee was some thing like 9 bucks a day now it is 24 bucks and the exchange rate was better too... So you are talking almost a 270% price increase in 14 years... I have a good job but my salary hasn't increased that much :) plus now I have a family so there are 4 of us. I can't imagine being a poor just graduated from college kid trying to afford a trip now a days, going into the wilderness all alone---it just doesn't make it easy to draw the youth in.

All of the Canadian canoe parks usage are down significantly since they raised their fees. It really prices the youth out, us old guys with more money or established gear are the only ones that can afford it. Selfishly it is nice when I go, I see way less people than I used to in Canada, but financially it take more planning.

T

the Canucks raised the price because they can't make any money on it,
since a lot of us don't rent boats from them, equipment, and pack our own food, or even buy gas from them they figure they can make up for it by raising the camping fee which causes us to stay home.

Why would we buy food or gas there? Canadians don't even buy stuff in Canada if they can avoid it. It's amazing the number of people in places like Grand Forks, I Falls, or Duluth who have never been to Canada or rarely go. Why would they? everything costs more.

If you think youngins' today have no interest in paddling, go to Lake Calhoun sometime and watch them stand in line to pay outragous prices to rent canoes, kayaks, and SUP's.

But, dammit, we have the best country in the world!

Getting off topic now but I stayed at Embassy Suites MOA a few years back, they have a free 2.5 hour happy hour with Hotel stay. I was in line and this guys asks me why I was in line and when I told him for the free happy hour, he freaked out... "Ya mean just cause I stay at this hotel I get to have free beer for a few hours...eh?" He ran away and came back with all his friends. They made the best use of the next 2 hours that Hotel has ever seen and I'd be surprised if they didn't outlaw Canadians at happy hour after that :) anyway we got to know them, they said Happy was illegal in Canada due to it wasn't good for you? Never heard that before? After drinking with these guys I started to see why it we made illegal :)

They were making their annual trip to Minnesota to buy clothes, hockey supplies (not making that up), school supplies, and electronics. It was cheaper to drive 8 hours, stay at a hotel all weekend and drive back than to buy in Canada.

T

Jim & Sherman, I missed your responses the first time around. I found the Wabakimi Project website one afternoon while daydreaming and googling when I should have been paying attention to a conference call.

I'd read some trip reports and paddling looks to be way over my head in some spots. Can a relatively inexperienced paddler do something like this without putting people at risk?

Nearly all of my paddling experience is kayak related and then very little whitewater, class II at that.

quote hooky: "J


I'd read some trip reports and paddling looks to be way over my head in some spots. Can a relatively inexperienced paddler do something like this without putting people at risk?


"

two most important attributes to have for Wabakimi is respect for the power of nature and have common sense and know how to use it

quote hooky: "Jim & Sherman, I missed your responses the first time around. I found the Wabakimi Project website one afternoon while daydreaming and googling when I should have been paying attention to a conference call.


I'd read some trip reports and paddling looks to be way over my head in some spots. Can a relatively inexperienced paddler do something like this without putting people at risk?


Nearly all of my paddling experience is kayak related and then very little whitewater, class II at that."

I think they would welcome you. You don't need to be a whitewater ace. You just need basic canoe skill and be willing to work hard. Drop them a line and they can explain it much better than me. And you know your total cost going in.

"I think they would welcome you. You don't need to be a whitewater ace. You just need basic canoe skill and be willing to work hard. Drop them a line and they can explain it much better than me. And you know your total cost going in."

Some days you will work hard, some days you won't. On this year's trip my crew did four 1/2 days of exploring for lost portages and campsites and about two days of clearing portages and locating, cleaning and setting up campsites. Some weeks are more difficult than others.