New Trip Report posted by Digger1979

Trip Name: Let Down.

Entry Point: 41

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Entry point lakes with a lot of daily permits are busy, especially on weekends or holidays. The beauty of the BWCA gets better the more portages you cross and the farther you get from the crowds.
Each trip is a learning experience. Don't let this first experience deter you. Learn from it.
What day of the week did you put in? How long were you planning to stay? Did you consider portaging to another lake?

One if the guys with us really can't portage. One of the reasons we picked that lake. So if you just do a day pass you can take up a camp site?

quote Digger1979: "One if the guys with us really can't portage. One of the reasons we picked that lake. So if you just do a day pass you can take up a camp site? "

No, to camp you need an overnite paddle permit. I think what he means by "daily permits", is how many people can start their overnight trip on that lake, on that day. That information is available when you reserve your permit. High number of permits = busy lake.

It is difficult to find a spot on an entry point lake. People who start their trips after noon will want to camp on an entry point lake. People who want to get an early start driving home will try to end their trip on an entry point lake. People who don't want to portage will try to camp on an entry point lake. Finally, some people appear to "live" on these entry point lakes with big coolers and bughouses - I suspect some stretching of the rules there. Plus isn't part of Brule a motorboat lake?

I think you'd have had much better luck if you could have managed just one portage. Or maybe a tow on one of the bigger lakes. Maybe someone here will have a suggestion?

Other than that, go when school is still in session - late May or early September. Less crowded. Less bugs. Less storms.

quote NotLight: "

quote Digger1979: "One if the guys with us really can't portage. One of the reasons we picked that lake. So if you just do a day pass you can take up a camp site? "

No, to camp you need an overnite paddle permit. I think what he means by "daily permits", is how many people can start their overnight trip on that lake, on that day. That information is available when you reserve your permit. High number of permits = busy lake.


It is difficult to find a spot on an entry point lake. People who start their trips after noon will want to camp on an entry point lake. People who want to get an early start driving home will try to end their trip on an entry point lake. People who don't want to portage will try to camp on an entry point lake. Finally, some people appear to "live" on these entry point lakes with big coolers and bughouses - I suspect some stretching of the rules there. Plus isn't part of Brule a motorboat lake?


I think you'd have had much better luck if you could have managed just one portage. Or maybe a tow on one of the bigger lakes. Maybe someone here will have a suggestion?


Other than that, go when school is still in session - late May or early September. Less crowded. Less bugs. Less storms.
"

Reason I asked about if ppl can use a campsite with a day pass was we ran into some ppl that had one who said we could have it once they left. We went back around the time they said they were leaving but some other ppl had it. No motor boats allowed on that lake. Does anyone have any recommendations of where to go? With light portage or no portage?

Try John Lake (69) or Pine Lake (68). One permit a day. John has a nice campsite. Very short paddle. Pine is a much larger lake with several nice camp sites. If it is windy you can get easily wind bound. Both have very short rapids you can paddle or pull through.

If you can't portage then I would go early or late in the season or try Quetico which receives far less visitors. I had this happen on the number lakes when I was ending a trip. We were on Lake Three and couldn't find a site so went to Lake Two and got the last one open which was probably a 2 star site. Very rough landing but we had a place for the night. I go to Quetico now.

quote TomT: "If you can't portage then I would go early or late in the season or try Quetico which receives far less visitors. I had this happen on the number lakes when I was ending a trip. We were on Lake Three and couldn't find a site so went to Lake Two and got the last one open which was probably a 2 star site. Very rough landing but we had a place for the night. I go to Quetico now.


"

Also during the summer months consider going in mid-week on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

Interesting. We did the same with a group of eight on Friday as well. Paddled 13.5 miles and looked at most of the sites which of course were filled. Finally got a tip from a game warden the site #1 recently opened which is where we settled by 4-5pm. In the end it worked out but I know your frustrations all too well. We were about to pull the plug on Brule. Everyone was completely exhausted the next day.

I may run into this next week. We are entering Pine on a Saturday afternoon. No real choice. While it does happen, not being able to find a site is pretty rare. Of course, you can't be too upset as the problem you encountered is people doing exactly what you wanted to do. Drive up and camp a couple nights on the first lake.

We did the gruesome Clearwater to Caribou portage last Monday, 6/27, only to find no camp sites open in Caribou and then portaged to Little Caribou and the only campsite there was also taken. Wife and two children were exhausted and it was getting late. So we were forced to camp on the Little Caribou portage. It was a bitter disappointment for the children. They vowed never to camp again in BWCAW!

In the last 5 years, twice we had to end our trip a day early because as we reached the end of our second to last day, we found every campsite taken, all they way to the truck. We are going into the Quetico this year, not expecting the same issue...

Brule can be incredibly busy during the peak season. I've had trouble finding a spot on the lake twice. I've only done one trip where I was planning on base camping on Brule but I still opted to go with the full permit that didn't limit me to Brule just in case I couldn't find a site that way I could portage into another lake if needed.

And yes I believe people on day use permits can use a campsite for lunch or whatever but they can not camp on it overnight. If you are in that situation again and you suspect someone is day tripping on the lake or they tell you they are leaving soon I would tell them we'll take the site when you are done and then hang out within eyesight of the camp and maybe do some fishing until they leave.

Very sorry to hear your experience! We took a tow from Moose Lake to the Indian Portage to Birch Lake. Moose Lake is the busiest entry and, for the first time, I wanted to avoid the motor boating fishermen, who have no business in the BWCA. To my surprise, there were no other motor boats and in our days paddle out on Knife, past Pine Island and Thunder Point, we encountered no other parties and got a beautiful campsite on Knife Lake. We ran into very few people for the next six days until Ima and Jordan. Didn't get busy until we got into Ensign on our way out.

I wonder if people don't want to camp on lakes that have had fires go through in the past?
I will admit I wouldn't want to camp in an area that has little shade from the sun or protection from the wind. Might be a reason lakes like Brule are really crowded.

quote lskidder: "Very sorry to hear your experience! We took a tow from Moose Lake to the Indian Portage to Birch Lake. Moose Lake is the busiest entry and, for the first time, I wanted to avoid the motor boating fishermen, who have no business in the BWCA. To my surprise, there were no other motor boats and in our days paddle out on Knife, past Pine Island and Thunder Point, we encountered no other parties and got a beautiful campsite on Knife Lake. We ran into very few people for the next six days until Ima and Jordan. Didn't get busy until we got into Ensign on our way out.
"

Sorry, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with your statement that motor boating fisherman have no business in the BWCA. As long as they stay in the designated areas, observe the motor limits for those areas and abide by any other rules--I am fine with it. Just as you did, those who prefer not to spend their time on a motorized lake are free to move on as they choose.

We should all be reminded that this beautiful "wilderness" is for everyone who is willing to use it with respect and abide by the regulations that have been established to maximize enjoyment for many.

Another recent thread, on the trip planning section of this message board, discussing "accessible" trips also reminds us that some folks who long to go to the BWCA have physical limitations. A motorized trip is a way that those with abilities that differ from most of us can enjoy this resource as well.

Sorry to hear about your experience on Brule, and that of the other family on Caribou/Little Cariou.

USFS/SNF should study how visitors are using the wilderness and manage accordingly to protect the resource. There is no benefit to overcrowding.

I don't know if there's data indicating how common these anecdotes are, but I suspect "frontcountry" usage is on the rise, probably much more than the permit quotas were intended to support.

Maybe another management approach is needed, to reflect changes in how people use the wilderness? I think a frontcountry/backcountry distinction might be helpful, seems to work OK in National Parks. It might give people a more accurate picture of what to expect at EP lakes, and allow targeted maintenance and rehab of portages, campsites, latrines, etc.

My daughter and I stayed a night at Rockwood after our recent trip to Crocodile and they said that they've had a lot of customers have trouble finding a campsite on Caribou and Horseshoe lately.

Speaking of the area Ducks just mentioned, last July my wife and I got lucky to snag an open site on Horseshoe, only to have multiple groups come by looking for an open site. Some of them said they'd been all over Horseshoe and Caribou and Vista without a single open site. And there were multiple groups in the same boat, pardon the pun.

Seems like something should be done. No great options, but if folks pay for a permit--and they're required to camp at an established site--they should have a good chance at a site.

I wonder how many sites were open on Gaskin. Part of the problem is agendas. Some people get late starts, or are slow, and look for sites 1-2 portages in from e.p. Then there are groups that plan to head out and lay up close to an e.p. for a "quick exit" day. This concentrates people near the e.p.'s. When my daughter worked at Tusc, there were always alot of people who came out a day early because they were going to lay up short at Missing Link or Long Island and could not get a camp site. This usually happened in late July and first couple weeks of August......peak season. I think the camp sites are there to support the permits for the most part. You just have to be willing to travel a little more on your first and last days. And yes, I realize there are those who want to take short trips or have physical limitations, but I also realize they are going to be at those sites so I plan accordingly.

We camped on Gaskin in early July this year. On our way in and on our way out, there were multiple sites available on both caribou and horseshoe. We entered on a Saturday morning and exited on a Tuesday. Had the same experience on the same lakes last year as well with a Monday entry and a Saturday exit - paddled by multiple open sites on both lakes.

We have had a trip out of Cross Bay where we decided to move from Long Island to a lake closer for the next day's exit. We knew it would be a long shot to get a site on Cross Bay but we ended up nearly exiting altogether. The only open site on Ham was the narrows site where the Ham Lake fire began.

I know lakes closer to the entry points can be very busy but I still think it's hit or miss. We have been very surprised at the open sites we've paddled by on our way on weekends in mid-summer.

If you can manage to get up early and get moving early (on the water by between 7-8 AM), your chances of finding a campsite vastly improve. I camp on entry point lakes all the time - four trips in a row on Saganaga.