I don't really consider this off-topic since it is an item that some of us MUST carry into remote areas, especially when the allergy is insect stings.
Those that use these know that the prices have skyrocketed lately - my first EpiPen was $60 and the set of 2 that I just bought was labeled $740 (ish). Here is an article in todays Duluth News Tribune. Very sad when these companies are trying to gouge us like this.
Anyway my question is, what do others here do to be protected?
Pay the price - each year?
Pay the price every other year in hopes that the medication is still good during the second year (what I do)?
Carry a syringe and bottle of epinephrine?
Carry nothing and hope that you don't need it?
Of course my insurance covers most of this, but to me that is no excuse for the prices. Insurance costs are high because of this price gouging causing many to be without it. Mylar offers a $100 coupon which is supposed to cover your co-pay (it didn't cover my co-pay) therefore pretending that it is 'free' to you - BULL!

My insurance negotiates the price down so there has been no change in cost for us. That is, we see the bill with the new inflated price but in actuality the price hasn't changed. My co-pay is based off the negotiated price.

This shouldn't really affect anyone should it, the president made it illegal to not have health insurance when he came into office so everyone should have the negotiated price... tongue and cheek of course---

I agree essentially it is greed, the majority of it I'd say, but their is a government cause to some of this. To pay for the new insurance plans these companies are being taxed and regulated more by the government (right or wrong it still costs them more) so in an attempt to recoup losses they raise prices not because they think people will pay for the prices but to reduce their taxes... So like in my case and about 80% of the population it didn't affect me---the actual prices don't change but the companies can show a loss on a product... i.e. For me we pay $100 for the pen and they will say they charged $740 or so, that shows a loss and they can reduce their tax burden. Obviously they underestimated the amount of people without insurance or plans that aren't negotiated well and now this company gets the backlash they deserve.

I am not condoning any of this as I agree it is about greed but just showing making more laws doesn't always fix things... Companies find away to pass the costs on to us.

The first place I'd start would allow consumers to negotiate prices themselves. Right now it is illegal in an attempt to force everyone into the new insurance programs. That's why you see your health care bills inflated over the actual amount paid insurance cost, by law they can't offer the "cheaper" insurance or Medicare price and they can't legally negotiate with consumers unless you are delinquent on your bill or show hardship. This artificially inflates prices. What if Costco, Target, Walmart, Sams could negotiate epi-pen prices to sell in their pharmacies... I bet the price would come down. But that's all conjecture and will never happen with our current system.

T

Mylar is the scummiest of the scum. My 5yr son has a dairy allergy we discovered when he was an infant. Since then, we've spent roughly 3k on epi-pens. Once the pharmacy gave use a pack of pens, in July, that expired in September. Then had the nerve to give us hell when we wanted to exchange them. Not wanting to take any chances, we keep them up until they expire. Its nice to hear that the higher ups are looking into this. Robbery at its finest.

Epi pens are not the only - "price gouging" meds. several of the old stand-by drugs are also seeing price escalation. Thyroid meds, gout meds (Allopurinol and Chochison), simple potassium supplements that are required for folks taking diuretics...... the list goes on.

And, I agree with PK - meds are essential when traveling in the BWCA where we all are responsible for our own well-being and can't go to urgent care or the pharmacy.

Just some food for thought.....our vet clinic buys 50cc bottles of 1mg/ml epi.......thats 166 doses of the standard .3mg dose provided in a pen. We pay about $16 per bottle.

It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.

In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so.

quote cowdoc: "Just some food for thought.....our vet clinic buys 50cc bottles of 1mg/ml epi.......thats 166 doses of the standard .3mg dose provided in a pen. We pay about $16 per bottle."

I know that the actual medication is cheap, and that is why it's tempting to just get coerced on self medicating in this emergency. I have four family members in the medical field so this wouldn't be a problem. Not sure if I could get a prescription for the product though. Oh well, cheaper products might be available soon enough anyway.

quote cowdoc: "Just some food for thought.....our vet clinic buys 50cc bottles of 1mg/ml epi.......thats 166 doses of the standard .3mg dose provided in a pen. We pay about $16 per bottle."

Wow, those self injecting syringes are expensive! the medication is about $.10 cents and the syringe is $600. Interesting.

The epi pen is a timely topic for me as I will be taking a 16 yr old and his father with severe nut tree allergy paddling in Quetico in about 2 weeks. We always carry pens, but the issue is a huge challenge as prices escalate.

My observation is most are stretching the expiration dates to save money plus carry single doses only.

But it is a very real threat to life - and the pressure to avoid any exposure to the allergy is high - be it food allergy or otherwise.

Cowdoc - thanks for the note. That is a very eye opening set of data. As a capitalist at heart, I do not begrudge profit from any company. Even high profits if merited. And I consider "high profits" to be 100% to 200% mark-up. But those epi numbers deserve review and pressure to correct. No question. Robbery without a gun.

Old Hoosier

quote Grandma L: "Epi pens are not the only - "price gouging" meds. several of the old stand-by drugs are also seeing price escalation. Thyroid meds, gout meds (Allopurinol and Chochison), simple potassium supplements that are required for folks taking diuretics...... the list goes on. "

Right. It's not the $84 that I ended up paying that bothers me so much as the fact that every time med companies do this insurance becomes a little less affordable.

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.


In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101.

I drive a school bus part time and have had to do training for administration of the Epi-Pens. Parents send these in book bags and the school has to keep a supply as well. Many parents have several for personal use or for their kids. When does the legal right to raise prices supersede the ethical prices that should be charged. At what point does the ability to pay CEO more become enough. For most of us, we would get along fine if our ability to be paid more were simply doubled. The industries of business and sports have become so profit driven, it makes one wonder about the wisdom of the free enterprise system at all. There needs to be some limits of reason and self regulation often does not work. So who decides. For the average and below Joe, government seems to be the only place to go to stop abuses of economic based on a monopoly.

quote Grandma L: "

quote cowdoc: "Just some food for thought.....our vet clinic buys 50cc bottles of 1mg/ml epi.......thats 166 doses of the standard .3mg dose provided in a pen. We pay about $16 per bottle."

Wow, those self injecting syringes are expensive! the medication is about $.10 cents and the syringe is $600. Interesting."

Yeah, a cheap workaround would be an ampoule of epinephrine and a small syringe. It's the same medication, but without the convienent auto-Injector- and it available very inexpensively. Epipens are easy to use and give an accurate dose every time. Good for emergencies, or by non-medical laypeople. They can be used even through clothing. The major trouble with the syringe/ampoule route is the potential for over/under dosing which, in the case of epinephrine, can easily cause death itself.
It's a generic medication but there isn't enough of a market demand for other companies to make epipens and bring the price down through competition: it's essentially a monopoly on that product. Yes, it ethically wrong to inflate medication prices that people depend on. Look for this to be the next political talking point/rally cry. Unfortunately, without system-level reform I doubt any politician will be able to do much more than 'blow smoke and make promises'.

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.

In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

You mean, blame the government that makes it illegal for medicare to negotiate drug prices, import drugs from Canada, that has a Democratic Senator from WV who's daughter is CEO of Mylar? How silly. Government is here to help us.

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.



In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

Government contradicts itself all the time because of the crony capitalism it practices.

quote eroom: "

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.



In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

Government contradicts itself all the time because of the crony capitalism it practices."

Yes, agreed. Putting the blame exclusively on government is not accurate though. Big pharma and insurance companies play a much much larger roll in the reason for huge price increases.

quote AJ2008: "

quote eroom: "

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.

In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

Government contradicts itself all the time because of the crony capitalism it practices."

Yes, agreed. Putting the blame exclusively on government is not accurate though. Big pharma and insurance companies play a much much larger roll in the reason for huge price increases.
"

It is absolutely accurate to blame the government. Without all the anti-competition fake safety rules, these would cost $8.

Near perfect example of crony-capitalism at it's worst.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

quote NotLight: "

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.


In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

You mean, blame the government that makes it illegal for medicare to negotiate drug prices, import drugs from Canada, that has a Democratic Senator from WV who's daughter is CEO of Mylar? How silly. Government is here to help us.



"

You mean the Democrat senator that sides with the Republicans on nearly every single issue? It doesn't matter what party you belong to, if it looks like a conservative, sounds like a conservative, and acts like a conservative, it's probably a conservative.

Blaming the government for this is moronic, you know why the generic of this drug were pulled? Because the auto injector sometimes wouldn't deliver the drug. But shame on the government, making that poor company pull their faulty injectors, they should stand back and just let people die of anaphylaxis.

This is why a free market does not work. These companies, without any government regulation, will screw all of us over every single chance they get to earn a few extra bucks. I've done environmental engineering work and I've seen what many manufacturing companies try to get away with, even with existing EPA regulations. Most of these companies don't care about us, they don't care about the environment, and they sure as heck don't care about keeping areas like the BWCA clean.

I hope you enjoy paddling rivers of literal fire, because that's what the free market system will get you.

There are no real competitors for the Epi-pen, they have a VERY well written patent and it took the last company over 7 years to fight them in court in order to bring a challenger to market (Auvi-Q) only to have it recalled by the mfgr. Epi-pen must need to shore up the bank roll for the legal fund. I worked on the very early design of the Auvi-Q injector 10 years ago. The company ran low on funding and had to switch engineering groups so thankfully we had nothing to do with the failed device design.

We are currently working on yet another version of an auto injector for a U of M start up,Adrenacard . Only time will tell if it makes it to the market. The legal and regulatory hurdles involved with such a device are almost impossible to overcome, hopefully a public uproar will help loosen that market up a bit.

My 3 year old son has a peanut allergy, blood tests show it to be very strong, so we have Epi-pen Jr's stashed everywhere. I have really good health care but we still spend about $25-50 per 2 pack, and we buy 4 every year. We keep the one year old ones as backups and toss after 2 years.

quote RainGearRight: "Mylar is the scummiest of the scum....Robbery at its finest. "

You'll be happy to know both the CEO and the President of Mylar were each compensated over $25 million in 2014 alone.

http://www.mylan.com/-/media/mylancom/files/company/corporate%20governance/184592_10ka_bmk.pdf

Capitalism is a great system except for one of the 7 deadly sins.....GREED. C'mon Man, how much do you need? Especially when it involves selling a product to save lives. Where the "F" is your moral compass?

Well all those blaming capitalism are a little off in my opinion. Capitalism involves a free market and competition---neither of which are taking place in this case. Some of it you can blame the government--the government isn't intentionally creating the situation it is more lack of awareness of consequences of laws/regulations even if the heart is in the right place. Of course greed is the highest on the list--unfortunately that's why you need the Government to regulate--that's the catch I guess and why there is no easy answer or quick fix...

T

quote AndySG: "Capitalism is a great system except for one of the 7 deadly sins.....GREED. C'mon Man, how much do you need? Especially when it involves selling a product to save lives. Where the "F" is your moral compass?"

They just need to buy few more island paradises for the grandkids then they'll start giving a $50 rebate.

"Our economic problems worry me much less than our political solutions, which have a far worse track record."
Thomas Sowell

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."
P. J. O'Rourke

There is an alternative:


adrenaclick

We got a 2 pack for $150.

The only difference is basically the needle doesn't retract after firing. (shown in the video) below. It unfortunate that this isn't as well known. Kinda funny how Mylan doesn't mention it either.

Here is a video on the difference between Epi-Pen, Adrenaclick, and Avi-Q (off the market now)

If you go to GoodRx it will show the prices at various pharmacies in your area.

I'm afraid it's going to get worse, cost-wise. I work this sector sometimes as a writer and I can't keep up with the mergers. It's bigger fish gobbling big fish and one day, there will be biggest fish or three, charging whatever they want.

quote ATDoel: "

quote NotLight: "

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.



In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

You mean, blame the government that makes it illegal for medicare to negotiate drug prices, import drugs from Canada, that has a Democratic Senator from WV who's daughter is CEO of Mylar? How silly. Government is here to help us.



"

You mean the Democrat senator that sides with the Republicans on nearly every single issue? It doesn't matter what party you belong to, if it looks like a conservative, sounds like a conservative, and acts like a conservative, it's probably a conservative.


Blaming the government for this is moronic, you know why the generic of this drug were pulled? Because the auto injector sometimes wouldn't deliver the drug. But shame on the government, making that poor company pull their faulty injectors, they should stand back and just let people die of anaphylaxis.


This is why a free market does not work. These companies, without any government regulation, will screw all of us over every single chance they get to earn a few extra bucks. I've done environmental engineering work and I've seen what many manufacturing companies try to get away with, even with existing EPA regulations. Most of these companies don't care about us, they don't care about the environment, and they sure as heck don't care about keeping areas like the BWCA clean.


I hope you enjoy paddling rivers of literal fire, because that's what the free market system will get you."

You are confusing Free Market Capitalism with Crony Capitalism . Crony Capitalism has more in common with Socialism.
You are also incorrectly equating unethical people and business owners with Capitalism, they are not the same.

In Capitalism, bad companies fail, Innovation and good companies succeed.
If you have any questions about economics I highly recommend Economics in One Lesson, it is a short easy read, once you read that I can recommend Bastiat's The Law, and That Which is Seen and That Which is not Seen. All are really good reads and although dated are very insightful.

quote AndySG: "Capitalism is a great system except for one of the 7 deadly sins.....GREED. C'mon Man, how much do you need? Especially when it involves selling a product to save lives. Where the "F" is your moral compass?"

This is an example of Corporatism, not Capitalism.

In Capitalism every transaction is mutually beneficial to all involved. You add in regulation to exclude business from entering into a market (restricting competition), and you are not experiencing Capitalism as in this case.

The epipen cost a few dollars to make and they change $600.00. The stockholders have gave the CEO a huge sum of money. I would like to buy one for our first aid kit but no way can I handle that amount.

We carry 2 pens. My wife has to for sure, it's life or death for her. My self I had a reaction about 25yrs ago and that is why I still carry one. So we just pay the cost, insurance covers some but yes it has definitely has gone up in price.

quote Grandma L: "Epi pens are not the only - "price gouging" meds. several of the old stand-by drugs are also seeing price escalation. Thyroid meds, gout meds (Allopurinol and Chochison), simple potassium supplements that are required for folks taking diuretics...... the list goes on. "

Drug companies et al are "Having their way with us" with increasing vigor. Thank your politicians for this. I don't have issues with anyphylaxis myself, however I have an ampule of Epi and a tuberculin syrynge in my First Aid kit.

In all reality, companies can set their prices where they want and the market will play out. Why isn't another company making a similar product at a lower price? Some government barrier assume ?

This doesn't seem right in a free market.

quote Old Hoosier: "The epi pen is a timely topic for me as I will be taking a 16 yr old and his father with severe nut tree allergy paddling in Quetico in about 2 weeks. We always carry pens, but the issue is a huge challenge as prices escalate.


My observation is most are stretching the expiration dates to save money plus carry single doses only.


But it is a very real threat to life - and the pressure to avoid any exposure to the allergy is high - be it food allergy or otherwise.


Cowdoc - thanks for the note. That is a very eye opening set of data. As a capitalist at heart, I do not begrudge profit from any company. Even high profits if merited. And I consider "high profits" to be 100% to 200% mark-up. But those epi numbers deserve review and pressure to correct. No question. Robbery without a gun.


Old Hoosier"

If you were a true capitalist you'd lo at those profits and try to get into the business. Something doesn't smell right here. There must be some government policies protecting these profits. They wouldn't exist in a free market. Chrony capitalism maybe?

quote Old Hoosier: "The epi pen is a timely topic for me as I will be taking a 16 yr old and his father with severe nut tree allergy paddling in Quetico in about 2 weeks. We always carry pens, but the issue is a huge challenge as prices escalate.


My observation is most are stretching the expiration dates to save money plus carry single doses only.


But it is a very real threat to life - and the pressure to avoid any exposure to the allergy is high - be it food allergy or otherwise.


Cowdoc - thanks for the note. That is a very eye opening set of data. As a capitalist at heart, I do not begrudge profit from any company. Even high profits if merited. And I consider "high profits" to be 100% to 200% mark-up. But those epi numbers deserve review and pressure to correct. No question. Robbery without a gun.


Old Hoosier"

If you were a true capitalist you'd lo at those profits and try to get into the business. Something doesn't smell right here. There must be some government policies protecting these profits. They wouldn't exist in a free market. Chrony capitalism maybe?

quote ATDoel: "

quote NotLight: "

quote AJ2008: "

quote rthompson: "It is the government keeping the free market and competition at bay that is the cause for the high prices. If there was more competition, there would be lower prices.... economics 101.



In reality a monopoly can not exist that does not benefit the consumer with lower prices, except when the government makes it so."

Ah the blame the government argument. You do realize there is no competition because of monopolies (which the government tries to prevent). Drug companies are consolidating constantly to eliminate competition. Economics 101."

You mean, blame the government that makes it illegal for medicare to negotiate drug prices, import drugs from Canada, that has a Democratic Senator from WV who's daughter is CEO of Mylar? How silly. Government is here to help us.



"

You mean the Democrat senator that sides with the Republicans on nearly every single issue? It doesn't matter what party you belong to, if it looks like a conservative, sounds like a conservative, and acts like a conservative, it's probably a conservative.


Blaming the government for this is moronic, you know why the generic of this drug were pulled? Because the auto injector sometimes wouldn't deliver the drug. But shame on the government, making that poor company pull their faulty injectors, they should stand back and just let people die of anaphylaxis.


This is why a free market does not work. These companies, without any government regulation, will screw all of us over every single chance they get to earn a few extra bucks. I've done environmental engineering work and I've seen what many manufacturing companies try to get away with, even with existing EPA regulations. Most of these companies don't care about us, they don't care about the environment, and they sure as heck don't care about keeping areas like the BWCA clean.


I hope you enjoy paddling rivers of literal fire, because that's what the free market system will get you."

lol, I hope his 15th and 16th posts will have even more insight.

quote AndySG: "Capitalism is a great system except for one of the 7 deadly sins.....GREED. C'mon Man, how much do you need? Especially when it involves selling a product to save lives. Where the "F" is your moral compass?"

better question , "where the "F" is your competition?"

Where I come from, if someone's making a lot of money doing something, other people do it to. These products wouldn't exist without "greed" as a motivator.

I'll try to avoid with the pages of rant on this thread (tho I do agree with most of them).

I've learned that:

A pharmacist MAY NOT recommend one of the few alternatives to the EPI (adrenaclick, self loaded syringes etc), however, your Doc MAY prescribe an alternative. Make sure you ask them (and that they are not getting kickbacks from Mylar for refusing to prescribe the alternative - ok, rant over).

If you can get your script filled in Canada, the EPI's are WAAAAAY less.

syringes loaded with with generic epineprhine are very cheap, but you have to get creative in obtaining them, as you can't just buy the epinephrine OTC.

self loaded syringes have a shelf life of only a few weeks. EpiPen last about 2 years....there is window on the pen to visually check if the fluid is cloudy or has particulates...that's when you know they need replaced.

Some countries the EpiPen is sold OTC. I don't know which ones, but it may be possible to find a contact in one and see if they will ship to the US for you....probably not legal.

The EpiPen is meant to be used immediately upon the onset of anaphylaxis, at which point your supposed to go to the ER, at which time you may get an additional shot of Solu-Medrol, and prescribed an oral steroid such as prednisone for follow up. You may also get pepsid AC to counteract the stomach upset which sometimes happens afterward.

I'm seeing an allergist in 3 days to talk about:
A: getting an altenative scrip for adrenaclick (much cheaper)
B: a scrip for prednisone to take as a follow up
C: advice on putting together a self help kit with OTC meds I can use to self treat during my evacuation from the BWCA if I am ever stung.

I'll try to reply to this thread with anything I've learned.

quote Grouseguy1: "

quote AndySG: "Capitalism is a great system except for one of the 7 deadly sins.....GREED. C'mon Man, how much do you need? Especially when it involves selling a product to save lives. Where the "F" is your moral compass?"

better question , "where the "F" is your competition?"


Where I come from, if someone's making a lot of money doing something, other people do it to. These products wouldn't exist without "greed" as a motivator. "

My first thought was that it's only a matter if time before someone else jumps into the market with a cheaper alternative. The only reason this would not happen is if the level of Government regulation is too high, thus impeding competitors from entering this market (this is called big companies colluding with big government) I understand some regulation is necessary to avoid bad product especially in a case like this, but when regulation get's too overbearing, this is what happens. The big company that has the resources to deal with the regulation does just that and charges whatever they want for the product because no one else has the resources to get into the market (this is greed and corruption). This is why it has to be a careful balance with regulation. We do not have a careful balance with regulation any more (we have corrupt big business working with corrupt big government).

On a more positive note, the free market is working in some areas of healthcare. I needed $500 in lab tests done before I went to Toronto for surgery (that's right, I went to Canada to have surgery). I started calling around to the local hospitals because I have a $5000 deductible and I need to shop around. First item EKG. The closest hospital $200. Third hospital I checked $48 (bam). Went to Hospital #3 and found out they have a direct access lab (walk in off the street, fill out a one page paper and check off the tests you need, donate some blood, they send you the results). They had the two blood panels I needed for $20 each. So now I am down from $500 to $88. Had all the tests done, and when I got the bill for the EKG, $16, most likely because I did not need one of their docs to read it, I just needed it faxed to my surgeon. So, final costs from $500 down to $56. That's the free market filling a need. Oh and the surgery in Canada, I was able to negotiate the cost from $6800 down to $4000. I hope this trend continues.

All of the people that have high deductible plans are learning to shop around and the free market is responding.

Shop around people, even if you have insurance. Ask things like "Is that test necessary" and "How much will that test cost", ...

The EpiPen Scandal Is Worse Than You Think: What You’re Not Being Told

Another part of the problem is a company invented a product and then gets a patent to protect themselves from others making the same thing. Then they raise the price sky high and fleece everyone. The stockholders demand a profit or out the CEO goes. Its just the way it is, It's the American way I guess.

I see people bitching. Anyone care enough to let this influence your vote for president? If you found out a presidential candidate was taking money for one of these groups would you still vote for them? If so wouldn't that make you the problem? There are candidates who don't take money from these groups.

The reality of American politics is if you don't take corporate money, you won't be elected. Period. Only the super-wealthy would have any access to Congress or the Presidency--and these are hardly the types you want in office...

quote arctic: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Another part of the problem is a company invented a product and then gets a patent to protect themselves from others making the same thing. Then they raise the price sky high and fleece everyone. The stockholders demand a profit or out the CEO goes. Its just the way it is, It's the American way I guess. "

That's why there is always room for vigilantism... This type of discussing greed could be put to an end fairly quickly."

Did you guys not read the article Whitewolf posted? Patents are not the problem. Patents are the incentive for companies to do research and develop new products. I am sure the patent on the Epipen expired long ago. The problem is laid out well in the article. Big companies hire lobbyist to influence government regulation which blocks competition and big media does not do it's job to expose this. I am sure that their are many industrious individuals out there that could design and build an auto injector pen, but the cost to sift through all the regulation (big government) to get it approve for use, and the threat of a lawsuit by the big corporation kill any competition.

It is greed involved, but it's not just the big company. It's big company, big government, and big media all working together to plunder your wealth.

Our form of government was designed to govern a moral people. As the morals of this country decline, our form of government will fail because of lack of morals (that's called corruption and greed). If anyone can find a better moral compass that the Bible, let me know. We need to get back to teaching morals in our homes and in our schools. If we do not, our country will continue to spiral down the crap hole.

I need to go paddle now.

quote arctic: "The reality of American politics is if you don't take corporate money, you won't be elected. Period. Only the super-wealthy would have any access to Congress or the Presidency--and these are hardly the types you want in office...

"

Only we can change this. I don't care if my candidate doesn't win. I vote for who I think is the best choice. Just think if everyone did that. Isnt that what are forefathers had in mind?
Voting for the lesser of two evils is not a good way to run a country!

quote ellahallely: "

quote arctic: "The reality of American politics is if you don't take corporate money, you won't be elected. Period. Only the super-wealthy would have any access to Congress or the Presidency--and these are hardly the types you want in office...


"

Only we can change this. I don't care if my candidate doesn't win. I vote for who I think is the best choice. Just think if everyone did that. Isnt that what are forefathers had in mind?
Voting for the lesser of two evils is not a good way to run a country!"

By all means, vote for whomever you want. Just know that the powers that want to transform this country into something different are tireless and they vote for the candidate that will move the needle ever so slightly in the direction they desire and over time they will succeed unless others vote for the politician that will incrementally move the needle in the other direction.

I hate this voting for the lesser of two evils crap. You must vote for the politician that you feel will most likely lead the country in the direction that you feel is correct.

quote IceColdGold: "

quote arctic: "

quote Savage Voyageur: ""

That's why there is always room for vigilantism... This type of discussing greed could be put to an end fairly quickly."

Our form of government was designed to govern a moral people. As the morals of this country decline, our form of government will fail because of lack of morals (that's called corruption and greed). If anyone can find a better moral compass that the Bible, let me know. We need to get back to teaching morals in our homes and in our schools. If we do not, our country will continue to spiral down the crap hole.


I need to go paddle now."

I am not sure how we measure moral decline, but I personally don't see it... when were more "moral" as a society? In the 1950's per chance when teenage pregnancy was at a much higher rate than now, Jim Crow laws and lynchings were considered acceptable, women and minorities were paid significantly less for doing the exact same job, work sexual harassment was considered part of the job in many cases, rape and violent crime began it's decade and half spike to an all time high in the 60's... Thinking we were more "moral" in the past you might be falling prey to the same media you referenced above. I just don't see that.

I agree with you about big companies and politics and that it isn't moral but I disagree it is part of a general decline. Most of the youth and adults I meet or work with have high morals/values and most crime statistics show the the same thing.

T

quote IceColdGold: "

quote arctic: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Another part of the problem is a company invented a product and then gets a patent to protect themselves from others making the same thing. Then they raise the price sky high and fleece everyone. The stockholders demand a profit or out the CEO goes. Its just the way it is, It's the American way I guess. "

That's why there is always room for vigilantism... This type of discussing greed could be put to an end fairly quickly."

Did you guys not read the article Whitewolf posted? Patents are not the problem. Patents are the incentive for companies to do research and develop new products. I am sure the patent on the Epipen expired long ago. The problem is laid out well in the article. Big companies hire lobbyist to influence government regulation which blocks competition and big media does not do it's job to expose this. I am sure that their are many industrious individuals out there that could design and build an auto injector pen, but the cost to sift through all the regulation (big government) to get it approve for use, and the threat of a lawsuit by the big corporation kill any competition.


It is greed involved, but it's not just the big company. It's big company, big government, and big media all working together to plunder your wealth.


Our form of government was designed to govern a moral people. As the morals of this country decline, our form of government will fail because of lack of morals (that's called corruption and greed). If anyone can find a better moral compass that the Bible, let me know. We need to get back to teaching morals in our homes and in our schools. If we do not, our country will continue to spiral down the crap hole.



I need to go paddle now."

I was was talking about companies in general. Did you read my post? And no I did not read a link that someone posted that they did not respond personally to.

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote IceColdGold: "

quote arctic: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Another part of the problem is a company invented a product and then gets a patent to protect themselves from others making the same thing. Then they raise the price sky high and fleece everyone. The stockholders demand a profit or out the CEO goes. Its just the way it is, It's the American way I guess. "

That's why there is always room for vigilantism... This type of discussing greed could be put to an end fairly quickly."

Did you guys not read the article Whitewolf posted? Patents are not the problem. Patents are the incentive for companies to do research and develop new products. I am sure the patent on the Epipen expired long ago. The problem is laid out well in the article. Big companies hire lobbyist to influence government regulation which blocks competition and big media does not do it's job to expose this. I am sure that their are many industrious individuals out there that could design and build an auto injector pen, but the cost to sift through all the regulation (big government) to get it approve for use, and the threat of a lawsuit by the big corporation kill any competition.



It is greed involved, but it's not just the big company. It's big company, big government, and big media all working together to plunder your wealth.



Our form of government was designed to govern a moral people. As the morals of this country decline, our form of government will fail because of lack of morals (that's called corruption and greed). If anyone can find a better moral compass that the Bible, let me know. We need to get back to teaching morals in our homes and in our schools. If we do not, our country will continue to spiral down the crap hole.




I need to go paddle now."

I was was talking about companies in general. Did you read my post? And no I did not read a link that someone posted that they did not respond personally to. "

I respond personally. Read the link.

quote WhiteWolf: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote IceColdGold: "

quote arctic: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Another part of the problem is a company invented a product and then gets a patent to protect themselves from others making the same thing. Then they raise the price sky high and fleece everyone. The stockholders demand a profit or out the CEO goes. Its just the way it is, It's the American way I guess. "

That's why there is always room for vigilantism... This type of discussing greed could be put to an end fairly quickly."

Did you guys not read the article Whitewolf posted? Patents are not the problem. Patents are the incentive for companies to do research and develop new products. I am sure the patent on the Epipen expired long ago. The problem is laid out well in the article. Big companies hire lobbyist to influence government regulation which blocks competition and big media does not do it's job to expose this. I am sure that their are many industrious individuals out there that could design and build an auto injector pen, but the cost to sift through all the regulation (big government) to get it approve for use, and the threat of a lawsuit by the big corporation kill any competition.



It is greed involved, but it's not just the big company. It's big company, big government, and big media all working together to plunder your wealth.



Our form of government was designed to govern a moral people. As the morals of this country decline, our form of government will fail because of lack of morals (that's called corruption and greed). If anyone can find a better moral compass that the Bible, let me know. We need to get back to teaching morals in our homes and in our schools. If we do not, our country will continue to spiral down the crap hole.





I need to go paddle now."

I was was talking about companies in general. Did you read my post? And no I did not read a link that someone posted that they did not respond personally to. "

I respond personally. Read the link."

And the links within the link. Like I mentioned above, it's the near perfect example of crony capitalism.

Just got back from the allergist a few hours ago - key learnings

mylar is now offering up to $300 off coupons, which coincidentally will bring the cost of the Pens down to 'around $300' for two, which is close to the adrenaclick alternative - these can be printed off @ epipen.com

Once you've had an anaphylaxis episode from a sting, there is a 70% chance that your next episode will hit you harder and faster. Quoting the doc "you CAN NOT" get stung again.

There is a fairly expensive 'desensitizing' treatment wherein you get injected with minute doses of venom over 5 years - successful completion lowers your risk of full blown anaphylaxis to less than 10%. Usually this treatment is only available a couple times/year since the venom is very expensive, and very perishable. If you think you want to go this route then it will require pre-planning.

if you get stung, and take an oral steroid as part of the follow up treatment, its important to taper off, rather than stop all at once. I was on prednisone for 5 days following my episode and did not taper off. As a result, I am a DAMN WRECK this week. Terrible loss of energy and motivation, difficulty concentrating and remembering, wide mood swings....this just SUCKS, so see an allergist or a family doc ASAP after going to the ER and getting treated.

There is some chatter in the medical community that due to the outrage over the price gouging by Mylar, that the FDA may facilitate the entrance of competing products over the next year. The doc cautioned me not to expect too much since the situation is very fluid and I'm sure our betters on K street are hard at work lobbying for/against.

hope this helps someone

quote Grandma L: "

quote cowdoc: "Just some food for thought.....our vet clinic buys 50cc bottles of 1mg/ml epi.......thats 166 doses of the standard .3mg dose provided in a pen. We pay about $16 per bottle."

Wow, those self injecting syringes are expensive! the medication is about $.10 cents and the syringe is $600. Interesting."

And the injector was developed on your tax dollar by the US armed services as a battlefield friendly to self administer Atropine in WWI.

I'm wondering what the cost is going to be when I get my prescription renewed in November. Last year with my insurance for two pens it was $70. I'm not worried about myself, it's my grandson that I worry about as my daughter's insurance is nothing like mine. Grandpa will make sure that Noah has it one way or another.

Mylan also just announced a generic two-pack for $300. Not sure how they sell the brand name ones when they promise the generics are identical. But the answer is probably that they will still make plenty of profit and not lose money to the other generics.

Yes, taper off prednisone and other corticosteroids. Part of two of the chemos I've had were 5 days of 100mg/day of prednisone. They try to do it with no taper and, for me, the drop from 100 to 0 is amazingly painful. In general, it is hard enough that many doctors only give you enough pred for one round so you won't be tempted to dip into the extras to relieve the pain. With my level of pain they let me taper from 100 with daily steps to 60, 40, 20 and 0. Standard allergy packs start at 20mg and go down 4 mg per day. You can get those as blister packs set up for the taper.

You think an epi-pen is expensive go buy a bottle of those little blue pills once...talk about pay to play!!! Cheaper to go fishing..