Wow. Got my denial for my lottery apps today. All denied. 1st time ever. I put in 18 different dates and had 7 different lottery apps #'s. I put in day use motor for moose newfound and sucker. Also moose basswood via prairie and basswood overnite motor. All denied. I'm just curious how the outfitters on moose do it and still stay in business. I stay at fall lake for 2-3 weeks and hit the area lakes. Always stop by ranger station and look for permits that have been turned back in. I can usually pick up 1 or 2. But it's a pain to do that every day.
Maybe I'll stay at fall lake 1 week and then head south and check out Crescent lake Dumbbell,silver island, maybe toohey and fourmile.

quote yogi59weedr: "Maybe I'll stay at fall lake 1 week and then head south and check out Crescent lake Dumbbell,silver island, maybe toohey and fourmile."

I think you would enjoy that plan B.

That stinks. I'm sure it's a big disappointment, but plan B sounds pretty fun. Hope you have a great time.

quote yogi59weedr: "Wow. Got my denial for my lottery apps today. All denied. 1st time ever. I put in 18 different dates and had 7 different lottery apps #'s. I put in day use motor for moose newfound and sucker. Also moose basswood via prairie and basswood overnite motor. All denied. I'm just curious how the outfitters on moose do it and still stay in business. I stay at fall lake for 2-3 weeks and hit the area lakes. Always stop by ranger station and look for permits that have been turned back in. I can usually pick up 1 or 2. But it's a pain to do that every day.
Maybe I'll stay at fall lake 1 week and then head south and check out Crescent lake Dumbbell,silver island, maybe toohey and fourmile.

"

About 7 year old data but it gives you a idea

Local outfitters obtained the lion’s share of those permits. In fact, of 521 permits issued for the Moose Lake chain in 2009, 440 went to outfitters, and three-quarters of those went to just one outfitter. Motor permits to Basswood were more highly sought-after by the public in 2009, but even there, a large majority went to outfitters. Of 1,502 permits issued to Basswood, outfitters received 957, compared to 545 for members of the public.

Overall, said Van Every “roughly 80 percent of the permits are going to customers of outfitters.”

So, is it possible to get a permit from an outfitter without also using their other services?

quote BlueTone: "So, is it possible to get a permit from an outfitter without also using their other services?"

They go thru the same permit system,it is just they have figured how to apply for permits and work the system.
25% of Moose lake permits are never used and 81% of unused permits was from three outfitters and 75% went to one outfitter.

This year I put 4 different dates on 1 lottery app so I only had7 lottery apps. Next year I think I'm gonna put1 date on each app. That way I'll have27 apps in the draw compared to only 7. Covers all the date but more chances.
Down side is doubling up on dates that I would have to turn back in. ie. If I draw a moose newfound and sucker,and a moose basswood via prairie,I would only need the moose basswood permit. Pine tree that data is interesting. How do you know the outfitters are getting the permits.

quote yogi59weedr: "This year I put 4 different dates on 1 lottery app so I only had7 lottery apps. Next year I think I'm gonna put1 date on each app. That way I'll have27 apps in the draw compared to only 7. Covers all the date but more chances.
Down side is doubling up on dates that I would have to turn back in. ie. If I draw a moose newfound and sucker,and a moose basswood via prairie,I would only need the moose basswood permit. Pine tree that data is interesting. How do you know the outfitters are getting the permits."

That data was released by the US Forest service and was broken down into various categories.

quote Pinetree: "

quote BlueTone: "So, is it possible to get a permit from an outfitter without also using their other services?"

They go thru the same permit system,it is just they have figured how to apply for permits and work the system.
25% of Moose lake permits are never used and 81% of unused permits was from three outfitters and 75% went to one outfitter.
"

I'm guessing the outfitters just click on the check box for commercial when they apply for the lottery. That moves them right to the front of the line...

So basically only a token number of OM permits are available June through September unless you are an outfitter and the outfitters won't sell them to you unless you outfit with them.

Guess what else... I heard for the lottery next year there won't be any free cancellations (maybe the outfitters will still get that???).

Pretty frustrating if you ask me!

I've always been curious about that commercial square. I thought everyone had a equal chance. I did speAk to an outfitter and they said they can add 3 boats to the original permit and you don't have to know the people or stay with them.
Would be nice if it worked that way at the permit office.
The would issue the permit to 1 boat,and 3 more day use motor to hand out

They have the exact chance as you do of drawing(they just know how to work the sstem better), I am sure they have customers that don't get permits also,but that is speculation on my part without really knowing. I think like a party of four going thru certain outfitters(not all) they will put in for 4 different permits,than cancel a permit if they get more than one for the same date? You could even expand that to like up to 9 people in your party putting in for 9 permits for the same day with one person on each permit(adding people later). This different scenario's I see could happen,unless I may be missing something on applying.

In fact, for permits on the Moose Lake chain, just three outfitters accounted for 81 percent of the no-show permits in like 2009. Those same three outfitters accounted for 52 percent of the no-shows for Basswood Lake permits.

Lake Saganaga on the east side has a lot smaller no show crowd. But there their is usually permits available and less people book in January vs Moose lake most are booked in January.

Then why are the no shows not added back in. I check every day a only sometimes I can snag one. I like the fall lake side but can't do the portage by my self

quote yogi59weedr: "Then why are the no shows not added back in. I check every day a only sometimes I can snag one. I like the fall lake side but can't do the portage by my self"

The no shows are people who get a permit and don't cancel I believe.

I get the sense that for any date May through September there are about 40 OM permits available. More are allotted to the outfitters during the high demand season. That is how we are left with only about 10 available June through August, the outfitters get the other 30.

I suppose they could put names of early confirmed customers in our part of the lottery too to protect what they get from the check box allotment. On those they would have the same chances as us.

Hey, what do I know? I haven't been in the BeeDub for a really long time and I'm just doing my best to understand all this permit stuff.

1st time ever to apply overnite motor for moose basswood via prairie and basswood. Put in 1 application with different dates. Ended up getting my 1st choice of Memorial day week-end. Seems I truly got lucky.

I spoke with permit personal yesterday and I'm under the Impression the commercial box is for guides, not outfitters. I don't know if guides get preference.Maybe TGO can answer that one.

quote yogi59weedr: "I spoke with permit personal yesterday and I'm under the Impression the commercial box is for guides, not outfitters. I don't know if guides get preference.Maybe TGO can answer that one.


"

I am pretty sure nobody gets preference.

quote yogi59weedr: "I like the fall lake side but can't do the portage by my self"

I hear that. If the weather sucks for the May date I picked up after all the denials came in I may "have the opportunity" to attempt Fall to Basswood solo. Then again it is just a Grumman Sport Boat so I may actually be able to pull it off.