Moose

While it seems the flood gates have closed for now hopefully some solutions can be found or implemented to keep them from opening again. Thanks for the link Pinetree.

Heard this as well today on MPR. No conclusions but the populations are stabilized over past 2 seasons.

Sounds like they have to stop being influenced by the tree huggers and wolf huggers and start doing some logging and wolf killing. That's the cold, hard, truth if you want your moose to rebound.

It was only a matter of time until the non-biologists interject their self proclaimed wisdom about the demise of the Moose and the "Big Bad Wolf" being the cause, without linking a single site to support their opinion, at a minimum provide a link.
I may not agree with it, but at least I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you kudos for searching for a link.
Please do not give unsupported opinions about this, there is a lot of science on both sides regarding the demise of the Moose.

Here is mine, we are at the southern range of the Moose.
Is this the answer to their downturn?
I don't know but at least I offer a link.
Please do so also, or I will not give your posts any credibility, especially when it comes to Wolves.
The Great lakes are at the southern boundary of the Moose range.
I worked with these Moose, I am not speaking on behalf of my agency and I am only a knuckle dragging firefighter. A pic of me with these studied moose. Moose Research Center, AK. They are very familiar with whats going on in MN

What you are about to read is not meant to offend anyone.

Just a simple question.

Why is it always assumed that humankind can intervene and "save" a species?

I want my grandkids to see a moose in MN as much as anyone. Heck, I'd be willing to bet more than most people.

What if the mooses' time is just up here in MN? What if, no matter how much time and money is allocated to saving the Moose, they are simply not meant to survive in this region anymore.

I'd like to say that I'm probably horribly uninformed on the subject, but, have never heard anyone ask the question before.

What if it's simply nature running its course?

Again, I mean no offense here. Just an honest question.

In reality the habitat is there with recent large burns in the BWCA and logging has been rather extensive in much of the range. Go down the Tomahawk road alone there is ample new cutting of various stages and Moose are not even touching it.
Logging can make a difference but throughout the moose range there is plenty of various stages of forest.

Yes like mentioned above and mentioned in past posting it is many things.

MBE,
That is a great question and I replied lengthy, but had to delete It because it was getting off thread.
I will see if can formulate a response to your question in the morning.

Of the collared calves anyone know how many died to brain worm or ticks?

How are the calves dying?

I know the older "adults" are dying from worms, ticks, and wolves.

Can we help the moose by controlling any of the things killing them? Especially the calves, they are the future of the moose!

We have paid for all this research. So what are the answers the researchers have? Are we getting what we are paying for? How do we know?

quote LindenTree3: "It was only a matter of time until the non-biologists interject their self proclaimed wisdom about the demise of the Moose and the "Big Bad Wolf" being the cause, without linking a single site to support their opinion, at a minimum provide a link.
I may not agree with it, but at least I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you kudos for searching for a link.
Please do not give unsupported opinions about this, there is a lot of science on both sides regarding the demise of the Moose..
Please do so also, or I will not give your posts any credibility, especially when it comes to Wolves.
The Great lakes are at the southern boundary of the Moose range.
I worked with these Moose, I am not speaking on behalf of my agency and I am only a knuckle dragging firefighter. A pic of me with these studied moose. Moose Research Center, AK. They are very familiar with whats going on in MN
"

I'm not giving any substantiated info (So I expect you to question my credibility), but the question of the Moose demise in Northern Minnesota, that has the largest population of Wolves in the lower 48 states has got to be taken into serious consideration, does it not??? :)

quote LindenTree3: "It was only a matter of time until the non-biologists interject their self proclaimed wisdom about the demise of the Moose and the "Big Bad Wolf" being the cause, without linking a single site to support their opinion, at a minimum provide a link.
I may not agree with it, but at least I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you kudos for searching for a link.
Please do not give unsupported opinions about this, there is a lot of science on both sides regarding the demise of the Moose.


Here is mine, we are at the southern range of the Moose.
Is this the answer to their downturn?
I don't know but at least I offer a link.
Please do so also, or I will not give your posts any credibility, especially when it comes to Wolves.
The Great lakes are at the southern boundary of the Moose range.
I worked with these Moose, I am not speaking on behalf of my agency and I am only a knuckle dragging firefighter. A pic of me with these studied moose. Moose Research Center, AK. They are very familiar with whats going on in MN
"

Had a huge post written up but wont post it, going to try and take the high road.

But I will say your tone is pretty unpalatable.

Thanks for the update!

quote The Great Outdoors:
I'm not giving any substantiated info (So I expect you to question my credibility), but the question of the Moose demise in Northern Minnesota, that has the largest population of Wolves in the lower 48 states has got to be taken into serious consideration, does it not??? :)"

TGO,
Your question absolutely has credibility, and IMHO I would answer Yes.
Many studies have been done on the Predator Prey relationship between Moose and Wolves.
For the record, I have not posted any of those studies because they are either from Yellowstone NP or Isle Royale NP.
Apples and Oranges as to what's happening with the MN Moose, and I do not want to throw mis-information out there.

quote The Great Outdoors: "

quote LindenTree3: "It was only a matter of time until the non-biologists interject their self proclaimed wisdom about the demise of the Moose and the "Big Bad Wolf" being the cause, without linking a single site to support their opinion, at a minimum provide a link.
I may not agree with it, but at least I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you kudos for searching for a link.
Please do not give unsupported opinions about this, there is a lot of science on both sides regarding the demise of the Moose..
Please do so also, or I will not give your posts any credibility, especially when it comes to Wolves.
The Great lakes are at the southern boundary of the Moose range.
I worked with these Moose, I am not speaking on behalf of my agency and I am only a knuckle dragging firefighter. A pic of me with these studied moose. Moose Research Center, AK. They are very familiar with whats going on in MN
"

I'm not giving any substantiated info (So I expect you to question my credibility), but the question of the Moose demise in Northern Minnesota, that has the largest population of Wolves in the lower 48 states has got to be taken into serious consideration, does it not??? :)"

Totally agree, at the very least we cant rule them out because if I was a Wolf and saw a Moose ,I would try to eat it would i not. If there were only limited Moose around and I ate a few of them wouldn't that drastically reduce the size of the herd. It may only be one of the factors but it is a factor that we can control, im not sure if we can control the other aspects.

Wolves are part of a equation that has many factors. Nature is a complex thing and changing equation. Ask the caribou that were once common in the Aitkin -Mille lacs area.

When any living thing is weaken or its environment changes they become more vulnerable to other outside sources.

Just my personal opinion. When you look at the booming moose population on Isle Royale vs dwinling population on the Arrowhead the only differences are an essentially non-existent wolf population and no deer population on Isle Royale. Deer carry the brainworm that is impacting moose.

Perhaps neither of these things (wolf predation, brainworm) is totally to blame for the moose decline but if warmer winters is making it harder for moose to battle both these things, then it helps explain what's going on.

Moose Mortality Article in the Strib

quote LindenTree3: "It was only a matter of time until the non-biologists interject their self proclaimed wisdom about the demise of the Moose and the "Big Bad Wolf" being the cause, without linking a single site to support their opinion, at a minimum provide a link.
I may not agree with it, but at least I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you kudos for searching for a link.
Please do not give unsupported opinions about this, there is a lot of science on both sides regarding the demise of the Moose.


Here is mine, we are at the southern range of the Moose.
Is this the answer to their downturn?
I don't know but at least I offer a link.
Please do so also, or I will not give your posts any credibility, especially when it comes to Wolves.
The Great lakes are at the southern boundary of the Moose range.
I worked with these Moose, I am not speaking on behalf of my agency and I am only a knuckle dragging firefighter. A pic of me with these studied moose. Moose Research Center, AK. They are very familiar with whats going on in MN
"

Not sure about the moose population, but I do know one thing Linden, that is a cool picture!! It will look good on the wall at your retirement party.

All,

I re-read my long post and I can see why I rubbed feathers the wrong way, and for that I apologize.
Bears and Wolves are my hot button issue.
Despite my passion, in the future I will try to soften my response.
I thank-you for letting me know that I was out of line.

it's a two for if you blame the wolves
then you also can deny global warming

if one wanted to use simple correlations then the problem could be hunting, since hunting was stopped, the decline has stopped

if only the world was so simple

I'm not arguing.

This is just a graph.

I get the feeling some are saying give up on the moose in Minnesota, it is at southern edged of their range. Yet Maine has 80,000 moose and large numbers of whitetail deer. Moose have been seen moving into northern New Mexico. Moose are thriving in Colorado, yes I have a link below! Their whitetail deer are not killing moose! All much farther south then northern Minnesota. So try again!!

I am not giving up! Look at Maine and Colorado, what's different then Minnesota? Anyone?

colorado-moose

Yes I know wolves are having a effect on Minnesota numbers but other factors remain. Yes in some areas when Moose get so low and wolves present that may eliminate the remaining moose in that local.
We use to have Moose as far south as Brainerd and even to the west like Detroit lakes even had a Moose season. No wolves and the moose did recede by early 90's.
Wolves moved into Brainerd area around 2000.


70% Moose calves dying Maine

Also Colorado has mainly mule deer which is suceptable(sp) to the brain worm that Whitetail can carry but not kill them It will kill mule deer.
Also I don't know about winter tick in Colorado? Also Colorado has a very robust population of Cougars which I seen there as far back as 1972.

Once-robust moose herds in Montana and Wyoming also are shrinking. Montana has launched a 10-year study, planning to put radio collars on 90 moose, to try to find out what’s happening. In Wyoming, a brain-attacking worm is suspected as a factor as a population that once topped 2,000 has declined to several hundred.

Good article! That sucks 70%. I have yet to hear of ticks or brain worms killing calves in Minnesota. Not saying it does not happen. I hope we don't start to see this in are calves, they are the future!

Tough being a moose.

Frontline?

quote ellahallely: "Good article! That sucks 70%. I have yet to hear of ticks or brain worms killing calves in Minnesota. Not saying it does not happen. I hope we don't start to see this in are calves, they are the future!

Tough being a moose.





Yeah I agree. I did see a few adult Moose one was in the North Bay of Basswood about 6 years ago with no hair and it looked scaley white. I guess others have seen that condition and it is from rubbing the ticks off.
I suppose animals can get anemic from loss of blood from too many ticks?
I read a article once also about snowshoe rabbit having thousands of ticks on it(actually counted by somebody) and they figured it died of anemic condition.

I remember like 1969 seeing my first moose and 2 calves while sitting on a campsite in the fog on the Kawishiwi river. A remembrance forever.

Thanks for posting the above links, I find this discussion educational, especially the info about moose in Colorado.

Yes we used to see Moose regularly in NW Minnesota, those days are mostly past but there are still a few, an estimated population of around 100 in all of NW , MN.
One of my co-workers for the USFWS said that they saw a moose last year near Mahnomen, It has been about 4 years that I have saw a Moose in that area and I worked for the USFWS there at that time.

Liver Flukes, Brain Worm and Winter Ticks effecting the Moose.
The Trifecta

My fathers family is from Waubun. My great grand father is the first person buried in the Waubun cemetery.
Tough area to make a living.

A friend of mine hunted Moose in the late 70's I believe it was in the area northeast of Fargo and north of Detroit lakes.. I remember him telling me the farmers land he hunted on he was real friendly. I think when they got one he hauled and loaded into a trailer with his tractor when he got one.
People always talked about moose being out in the pastures with the cows. I think the moose were hard on the fences.

More moose

Pine tree thanks for sharing. Great article. Not responding to your post to hopefully shake this weird formatting thing going on here.

Now- the article itself suggests a number of issues: brainworm-deer-ticks-wolves and climate change- which ultimately underpins our collective frustration- they don't have a clue. I could be convinced to buy that its a mixture of of these- except that these variables are not new.

So instead they say it's a change of policy which is bringing in deer Which is bringing in brainworm which makes the moose sick, so they can't fight the ticks .so the wolves eat the sick moose (33% of all fatalaties btw) which are stressed even further by the warm temperatures which is caused by climate change which causes the landscape to change which brings in more deer...

...SMH...

A friend sent me THIS-LINK of people skiing and having a moose join them on their downhill run, Colorado.

I was skiing Jackson Hole about 1978 and we had a moose join use on the cat walk.

I have never had a "bad" encounter with a moose other then when the rut is going on. Many times I have coexisted with moose with out fear. I have horror stories of them in rut. Had a friend duck hunting and camping close to Isabella. They were chased by a bull in rut. If it wasn't for his dog chasing it away twice(they left after that), they would had to shoot it or be attacked. It had one antler, it had lost it's other one in a fight with another bull.