Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Accidents, First Aid, etc.
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barehook |
So what is a judicious amount of prevention/first aid to take along? And if some of you take in catheters, oh, well LOL Stories welcome, no need for pix (catheter) |
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mastertangler |
I went with one guy who brought an epi pen in case of allergic reactions to bee stings etc. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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Spartan2 |
He is retired now, and we no longer go on trips because of some more serious and severe conditions, so don't know if we could still arrange for that or not. But it was a relief to have them, and though rarely used, if needed they were good to have. |
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jswamp |
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nctry |
If you are getting a prescription for anything, you can't use it on someone else unless specified... I can't see that happening unless you had advanced training and under a health director of some kind. Such as I'm a first responder. We operate under a health director who certifies us to do or administer specific things. Be careful how you give advice with things like that. |
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boonie |
I'd like to carry a stronger pain reliever, but can't get an RX for one - doctors are very reluctant these days to give one for obvious (and very good) reasons. Mine did give me an antibiotic, which I think is good to have along, but I had not considered the liability of giving it to others that nctry mentioned. I also carry my own RX drugs, but anyone with me would need to take theirs. I also carry the quick clot. There is also the PLB for dire emergencies. It's hard to determine what is a good balance. |
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arctic |
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Canoearoo |
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ockycamper |
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mastertangler |
quote ducks: "How do you get an antiboitic prescription before a trip? Go in to the dr. / call the dr. and tell them you are going on a wilderness trip and ask for a "just in case" prescription?" Ducks I had my dentist cut me an antibiotic scrip and it was filled free at a Publix. I would be very careful however about the use of antibiotics. Antibiotics are used way to freely IMO. They kill all the good bacteria in your gut and needs be reestablished correctly. Way to easy with the typical American diet to establish bad bacteria which can overproduce very quickly and crowd the good bacteria out. Then the bad stuff goes on to wreak your health producing a wide malady of problems which can be very difficult to diagnose. |
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missmolly |
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QueticoMike |
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boonie |
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boonie |
I also have Immodium, but no stool softener (not normally a problem for me and my meals have lots of fiber), dental stuff, tick remover, etc. I may see about a RX for Doxycycline for ticks . . . |
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PineKnot |
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ducks |
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bct |
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MrBreeze |
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GeoFisher |
quote barehook: "Years ago at a social gathering a urologist, hearing about my upcoming BWCA trip, offered to send a catheter with me, and to show me how to insert it myself. ????????? "Well, what if you get a blockage and can't pee?" Well, that's one offer still on the table I haven't availed myself of. But would be interested, for example, how many take in prescription antibiotics "just in case"? You see, two days after coming out of our last trip, one of the guys got a random infection with a raging fever that left him almost too weak to walk. Yikes, I don't know what we would have done if it had hit him when we were waaayyyy in there. 4 years ago I slashed my wrist in the WCPP, no SAT phone, but it went in at a shallow angle and we could bind it up and wait for the plane which was due the next day. Been either victim or spectator on some three buried hook incidents. etc. etc. Prescription antibiotics, and some narcotic if necessary. I also take a pretty hefty first aid kit, as well as 2 or 3 epi pens.... Lots of other stuff, including sam splint, etc, etc, etc. YOU can never be too prepared , especially when 50 miles and 2 days of portaging from the nearest rescue..... Later, Geo |
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JJ47 |
quote nctry: "quote Canoearoo: "I took wilderness first aid so our first aid kit is big. One odd thing I bring is liquid steroids for our youngest. He sometimes gets croup and when it hits he can't breath. Our doctor gave us this because if he got croup in the BWCA it would take to long to get him to help. " Also WFR trained and I agree. There are some things people need to be very careful with, especially med's. Meds can instigate a whole host of other serious problems. My training was strongly focused on using what was generally available in an "average" back country first aid kit and improvising everything else. It's pretty amazing what you can do with an old t-shirt, a bit of duct tape, and the stiff brim of a baseball cap. That being said, I do carry what some might consider a well stocked first aid kit that includes all the usual stuff, plus a sam splint, eye dressings, burn dressings, sutures, quick clot, glucose, CPR breathing barrier, space blanket, and yes, an epipen. You'll find very few other meds besides OTC comfort stuff for headaches, allergies and a small roll of tums in there. I am allergic to bee stings and the pen is my own. But, if I were to run across someone out in the woods in full-on severe anaphylactic shock from a bee sting, or food allergy, I would probably administer it to them... if they couldn't do it themselves. It would likely be too late by then, though. That's just me personally, and I would never advise anyone else to do the same. Folks need to know that an Epipen is not meant to be a cure, it can simply buy precious time for EMS to respond. Epinephrine needs to be administered pretty early for it to have a highly positive effect on allergic shock, and it can actually cause more severe problems. Like a fast irregular heartbeat, and can even cause the heart to stop altogether. Epipens are supposed to be carried by people with documented severe allergic reactions who are educated in their use. IMO these are handed out by the medical profession way too easily, and they do a poor job of educating people on their use. Deciding to use one, or not use one, is really kind of a gamble if you don't know when to use it, or what to expect from it. To anyone considering adding one to your kit, please educate yourself on the symptoms of anaphylxis, and what to expect from the use of Epinephrine BEFORE you decide you need to use it. For what it's worth, I purchased a Sawyer Extractor Pump a couple of years ago that also rides in my kit. I'd never used it until I was stung earlier this summer and had an opportunity to try it on myself. It seemed to work pretty well. I can't say that it would always work, and I'd never rely on it 100%, but this time I had a very minimal reaction to the sting after using the extractor alone. Localized swelling, and "normal" discomfort for a few days afterwards, but no sign of anaphylaxis. I've previously experienced hard, fast glandular swelling requiring immediate EMS from past bee stings. My allergy level is well documented. IMO wilderness FA is more about stabilization, evaluating the scene and eliminating any further immediate threat to folks with injuries more serious than cuts, scrapes and bruises. Like shock, hypothermia, heat stroke, dehydration, altitude sickness, broken bones, head, neck and back injuries, heart attack and stroke. Then determining if there is a need for immediate emergency evacuation, or if the victim can be stabilized and is able to survive a slower controlled evacuation, how an evacuation will be implemented and carried out. It's not at all about "curing" a problem so the trip can go on as planned. Don't forget .... Without argument, prevention is by far the BEST first aid. |
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BuckFlicks |
I like to take a bottle of Afrin or similar nasal decongestant spray. If you have a minor-to-moderate cut that won't stop bleeding, you can spray it in the wound and it will constrict the capillaries near the surface and help control bleeding. Obviously, it won't have that effect on a major artery wound. I wouldn't recommend using it for actual sinus congestion, though. The more you use it, the more you need it - it causes more severe congestion when it wears off. It's an addictive cycle. I was addicted to it and it was a bitch to kick. My sinuses still aren't right 20 years later. Stuff to treat feet - I learned my lesson after wearing holes in my heels on the first day of a 6 day mountain climbing trip - moleskin/Neosporin/duct tape are necessities. |
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drnatus |
quote BuckFlicks: "I like to take a bottle of Afrin ...." I read that and my eyes started to roll and I was thinking. "Oh no, do I have to go and post the pitfalls of Afrin??" and then I kept reading and you were right on!!!! Well done! |
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boonie |
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OldFingers57 |
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is an Ace or elastic bandage for sprains and strains. Sprains and strains are one of the top 4 backcountry injuries. The others being blisters, burns and simple lacerations. |
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billconner |
I wonder since i only cook on a stove and dont carry an ax nor hatchet, if that affects the choice. |
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BasecampMom |
Just food for thought. |
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drnatus |
For those who are trained, instead of an epi pen I take a vial of epinephrine, a filter needle, a second needle and syringe. This gives me 3 epi shots, and yes, I would have to reuse the IM needle, but I figure it is going to be on the same person. It is a whole lot less expensive than an epipen, triple the dose and less in size and weight. |
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4keys |
Does anyone carry an epipen as a precaution -someone with no previous problems? My brother had a severe reaction with no previous problems, which landed him in the hospital, so I have thought about it. I don't know if any doctors would give a Rx's for one, but I was wondering how many bring one. |
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nctry |
quote Canoearoo: "I took wilderness first aid so our first aid kit is big. One odd thing I bring is liquid steroids for our youngest. He sometimes gets croup and when it hits he can't breath. Our doctor gave us this because if he got croup in the BWCA it would take to long to get him to help. " One thing I thought was interesting about the wilderness first responder is how little they had you using for different scenarios. The focus was on using what typically you'd have available or less. Even an epi pen used on someone besides you and family your best to let them do the honors. One thing to evaluate is the items you can multipurpose. Be careful about drugs and self evaluating illnesses. Sometimes you can do more damage giving the wrong stuff. I used to take celebrex for years. While on a trip in Quetico I tore both rotator cuff muscles. I was given ibuprofen. Worked great until I cut a finger. My canoe looked like a war zone the bleeding. It bled through everything I did to it. I got home and had a random letter from my doctor. Don't take celebrex with Ibuprofen. How timely. Be careful about doing things that are beyond your abilities. If you do something that causes harm it could bite you. As a wilderness or local first responder we work under a health director of sorts. We could or may not do certain things. Highly recommend the wilderness first responder class at outward bound school in Ely. Usually in may. Costly, but fun and very interactive. It was a solid five days if I recall. Stayed right there in a bunk house and well fed. |
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PineKnot |
quote ducks: "How do you get an antiboitic prescription before a trip? Go in to the dr. / call the dr. and tell them you are going on a wilderness trip and ask for a "just in case" prescription?" Short answer is yes. Been on meds for arthritis and chronic asthma for years....just tell the doc the possible issues that may occur (poison ivy, cuts, etc) and that you may be a couple days from the car....the Rx is just precautionary.... |
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billconner |
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Savage Voyageur |
quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?" I carry a pack every trip for just in case. We saw and split a lot of wood for our fires because we cook meals on the grate. Potential for injury is higher than at home. Every year I read about someone who took an axe to the leg or a nasty cut when a fillet knife slips. A Quik clot and a compression bandage will stop a nasty cut until I can reach medical help. |
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mutz |
quote Savage Voyageur: "quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?" We take quik clot and hope to never have to use it, similar to the life vest and spare paddle. |
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QueticoMike |
quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?" I have used superglue to close up cuts up there. Never used quick clot before. |
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drnatus |
With that disclaimer aside. I would be very hesitant to just slap some quick clot on a cut. I have read that older versions produced intense heat that can damage adjacent tissue (side anatomy lesson: nerves tend to run along arteries...if you didn't cut the nerve you would hate to damage it from the heat of quick clot.) Newer versions are supposedly less thermogenic. Tourniquets have the advantage of not causing chemical or thermal damage to the wound (but yes, cause ischemic damage...all depends on how bad the wound and how fast the evacuation). If it is a matter of saving a life or limb, use the quick clot. On to antibiotics. They are overused. "I was on my vacation and I didn't want to be sick, so I took the antibiotic you gave me doc."......wrong answer. You just made it more likely that you would have some problem on your vacation or in the future from the antibiotic. "I had such and such constellation of symptoms of the correct duration or that specific situation we discussed so I took my antibiotics as you prescribed." ..... correct answer. The likelihood that you are going to get an antibiotic for your trip is proportional to your ability to understand, demonstrate understanding and actually follow directions. Being a nice person also doesn't hurt nor does actually having a professional relationship with your doctor. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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