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Mocha
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interesting article in the on-line startrib... apparently the hunt is back on for an additional 10 bull moose. if you log in to read the article, take the time to read the 40+ comments readers have made since the article was posted.
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Pinetree
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quote Mocha: "interesting article in the on-line startrib... apparently the hunt is back on for an additional 10 bull moose. if you log in to read the article, take the time to read the 40+ comments readers have made since the article was posted. "
Moose Hunt continues and additional Moose by other tribes
Ironic the Fondulac group tried to stop the managed wolf.
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Mocha
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also interesting thing in the article, states "since there was no public outcry over this hunt,..." i'm not sure who wasn't listening but pretty sure it was out there.
most tribes are Bear Clan so they won't shoot bears. not sure about wolves.
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BWPaddler
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quote andym: "Given that the Bulls breed with multiple females it seems like the number of females not impregnating should be lower than the number of males killed. "
Ummmm, isn't that backwards? Assuming bulls breed with MULTIPLE females, if one bull dies, MORE THAN ONE female might not mate?
I am not hugely worried and I respect their right to make this choice. I do hope they made the choice with educated information... and frankly I hope they use all moose taken for "subsistence" and community benefit and don't just mount the rack somewhere. Moose is good eating!
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andym
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I assume the bulls don't think, " I mated with 5 females and so I'm done for the year." Can they even count that high? Instead I expect they expand their breeding by a small percentage to cover the available females. But the females only get one pregnancy per mating season and so they are the limiting factor.
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Pinetree
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The female estrous cycle lasts 24 to 25 days, with the length of the heat being 15 to 26 hours. If the female is not bred within this time, she will recycle through estrus in about three weeks. Gestation averages about 231 days with cows giving birth to one calf on average, although twins are common.
I think when the moose are so widely scattered and many areas have only 1-2bulls, potential of not breeding or breeding late is higher.
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Pinetree
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The reason the DNR had a season a couple of years ago was mainly because certain Native Americans were having a season. I want to keep this thread open,but will say it is going to be hard to manage the moose population with so many groups doing their own thing.
Was in the Isabella area north this last few days,seen no moose hunters or even hardly any moose tracks while grouse hunting.
Grouse hunting was tough also.
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ellahallely
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Word I got was 8 moose were taken first few days. Heard this a few days ago.
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andym
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quote Pinetree: "The female estrous cycle lasts 24 to 25 days, with the length of the heat being 15 to 26 hours. If the female is not bred within this time, she will recycle through estrus in about three weeks. Gestation averages about 231 days with cows giving birth to one calf on average, although twins are common.
I think when the moose are so widely scattered and many areas have only 1-2bulls, potential of not breeding or breeding late is higher. "
The issues about the moose being widely scattered sounds very reasonable.
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Pinetree
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Moose
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2old4U
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Ain't touching this one with a ten foot pole!
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Pinetree
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quote 2old4U: "Ain't touching this one with a ten foot pole!"
I understand,just posted it as info.
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Cedarboy
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Well the good news is the numbers are up from 2015. CB
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andym
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Not a hunter, but I appreciate having the news pointed out.
Worth noting that it is the Fond du Lac band's hunt and not a wider MN hunt.
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DeanL
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I'm with 2old4U. This one could get ugly in a hurry.
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SaganagaJoe
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quote DeanL: "I'm with 2old4U. This one could get ugly in a hurry. "
...could it be because our slogan is a moose? :)
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DeanL
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quote SaganagaJoe: "quote DeanL: "I'm with 2old4U. This one could get ugly in a hurry. "
...could it be because our slogan is a moose? :) " That's the last thing I thought of. The parties involved is what makes it interesting.
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SaganagaJoe
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I hear ya. Will not be messing with this one. :)
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ellahallely
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So if 25 or 28 bulls are taken, how many cows are missing out on pregnancy? Any ideas? I wonder how the Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior Chippewa feel? They have their own biologist, Dr Seth Moore and study the moose closely. The Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa also wanted to net on Vermilion this past spring. However the Bois Forte Band of Lake Superior Chippewa asked them not to and they didn't. The Bois Forte Band of Lake Superior Chippewa has netted Vermilion fish for years. I think they also have a biologist and study the fish of Vermilion. For the most part the sport fisherman and the Bois Forte Band of Lake Superior Chippewa have lived in peace over Vermilion fishing.
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Frenchy19
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And here we go...
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andym
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Given that the Bulls breed with multiple females it seems like the number of females not impregnating should be lower than the number of males killed. That probably plays into the DNR's decision that they didn't have a valid legal objection to he hunt.
I'd rather they held off until everyone agreed but, as a scientist whose work gets used to set public policy, I also have to respect that the DNR made that decision.
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ellahallely
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Are you sure the dnr has anything to do with this? Link below has more info. moose
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2old4U
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"So if 25 or 28 bulls are taken, how many cows are missing out on pregnancy? Any ideas?"
I don't really know the answer, but I'm gonna guess just the ugly ones.
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Pinetree
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I seen various answers-it all depends? Maine says 1 bull to 5 cows is O'kay. LooK at Elk if some don't get bred they are bred like 3 weeks later,but calves are born later and smaller going into winter. If you are in a area of almost no bulls to begin with could a few be left out?
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andym
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From the first article posted, a DNR wildlife manager, says something that indicates that DNR can object under some circumstances. I took objecting as something with more weight than their request to reconsider.
“Clearly, the federal court has found they (band members) have hunting and fishing rights in the ceded territory,” Merchant said. “We did express our concern about hunting a population that’s in decline and is as low as it is. … We asked them to reconsider. That being said, we can only object if their hunting poses a conservation or health and safety issue. We cannot make a strong case that the taking of 25 moose poses a biological concern.”
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The Great Outdoors
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Actually the hunt is on Federal land that's included in the the 1854 (?) Treaty. PS-I agree with you on the wolf attacking your pet sentiment!! But when decisions are made in an area with a large wolf population like Washington D. C., they normally aren't made with common sense. :)
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The Great Outdoors
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I agree, 25 Bull Moose doesn't mean anything to speak of. If they really wanted to save the Moose population, they'd thin out the number of Wolves in the area. Unfortunately, some judge in Washing D.C. signed an order that stopped the wolf hunt, including shooting any in the process of attacking your dog. Quite the coincidence, that her husband films wildlife videos for (I believe) National Geographic!
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Savage Voyageur
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This is a hunt on tribal land by Native Americans. It is part of thier heritage and it is thier right.
To TGOs last post about wolves attaching my dog, I would shoot it if I saw one go after my dog. And if I was (guilty/serve time) I would be ok with that too.
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ellahallely
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TGO is right the hunt will be on state and federal land. 150 plus miles from fond du lac tribal land. Maybe even other bands land. Fond du lac band is from Cloquet, black bear casino. I hear talk of them taking out many of the wolf.
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ellahallely
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18 bull moose is the new number. At least 1 was collared.
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Pinetree
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quote ellahallely: "18 bull moose is the new number. At least 1 was collared." Thanks for update
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ellahallely
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copied from fdl rez news. 10/7 Moose Hunting Update: As of Friday, October 7th, Fond du Lac’s harvest total is 20 bull moose. Moose hunters are reminded they are responsible for knowing if the season is still open before going hunting, and that any moose taken must be registered within 24 hours. After careful consideration of biological data indicating the moose herd has stabilized in recent years at around 4000 animals, and taking into account the traditions and cultural practices of the Band, the Fond du Lac Reservation Business Committee has authorized a moose hunt this fall. The season will open Saturday, September 24 and run until Saturday, December 31st or until 25 bull moose have been taken, whichever comes first. In addition to the general moose hunt by tribal members, the Band will seek to take an additional 3 bull moose for community needs.
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DeanL
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There was an article in this week's Outdoor News about the hunt. The collar that was recovered was no longer reporting but the state seemed disappointed none the less that a collared bull was shot.
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Pinetree
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I give credit and praise to the other Band or tribal groups who showed some restraint. I give credit to the Bois band in limited netting in Vermillion.
The moose population level listed at 4000 could be as low or lower than 3000 according to many statistical confidence limits on the population. So it may be much lower than stated. As the DNR stated the northwestern Minnesota population declined than stablized at 2000 for awhile than collapsed and almost disappeared now. There was absolutely no reason to have a hunt now.
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golanibutch
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Ha!
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ellahallely
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We are at 22 moose. That was a few days ago.
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Pinetree
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quote ellahallely: "We are at 22 moose. That was a few days ago."
Thanks for the update. About 3 years ago they had their last season. I was in that area that was being hunted. The husband already got a moose he said and his wife was also going to shoot one because she also had a permit? I don't know if he was joking or not? Just repeating what they said.
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ellahallely
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As of today 25 have been taken and the season is closed.
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Pinetree
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quote ellahallely: "As of today 25 have been taken and the season is closed."
Thanks for the info. They did surprising good. But they did have like twice the number of permits issued than closed when they reached 25.
I am sure they had to collect blood samples etc. They usually give the hunters a sampling kit.
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ellahallely
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More recent article, talks about paying 2 of the tribes not to hunt or fish. link
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Pinetree
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Many of the tribal groups in Minnesota each year are paid a million dollars plus to refrain from or limit there fish and wildlife harvest. This been going on for at least two decades for many of them. Some thought this agreement was forever,but some tribes have opted out. Also Mn DNR at times have a hard time enforcing agreements made with them.
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