Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: tarps, why?
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4keys |
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dentondoc |
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AmarilloJim |
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Cedarboy |
CB |
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unshavenman |
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gymcoachdon |
I also take a chair and an axe, some feel those are not worth carrying. FYI, my first trip, I was fully outfitted, and had no experience with hanging a tarp. It was more of a hassle than a blessing. Now I have had some experience, and wouldn't trip without it. Practice before you go if you can, or get a good demonstration from the outfitter if possible. "tie out the 4 corners to trees, and tie the center up or stick a pole under it" didn't work for me! |
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CrookedPaddler1 |
More importantly, when we get to camp, that is the first thing that gets set up. We set it fairly low to the ground and all of the packs go under there to be unloaded. Now all of our loose gear is in one spot and not spread to all corners of the campsite. (Can you tell I have spent a lot of time in the woods with teenagers?) In addition, all of our firewood is stored under this tarp. That way we always have dry wood. The second tarp can be set up as a place to lounge under during rain or to get out of the sun. |
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jeremylynn21 |
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jeremylynn21 |
Not bringing a tarp to me is like wilderness camping in jeans and other cotton material. SILLY. |
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Savage Voyageur |
Expanded living area. Wind protection. Rain protection. Keep gear dry. Keep wood pile dry that you just spent an hour cutting and splitting. Sun protection. Hammock tarp. Cooking area during a 3 day rain. Cribbage area. Extra protection when a friend brought a crappy tent that leaked. Campsite occupancy identifier from a distance. First to go up, last to come down. The list is endless, you need a tarp. |
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bhouse46 |
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mgraber |
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HowardSprague |
mjmkjun: "boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " I feel like a dumbass! Watching it and tried 4x and not right. Taught line hitch much easier to remember/execute. |
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boonie |
Try this alternative method. Or this one |
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mschi772 |
sedges: "Don't you hate it when your tent gets soaked before the fly gets on or when you are packing it up. With the proliferation of free-standing tents, tarps are useful keeping your tent dry while erecting or packing it up. Arriving at a campsite or packing up to leave in the rain, the tarp is the first thing up and the last thing packed. Set up the tarp, assemble the tent under it then move the tent out. Bring the tent under the tarp to pack it if you are packing your outfit to move in the rain." While your point is solid, I will point-out that Marmot's tents generally allow you to erect the fly without the tent which allows you to set up the tent under the shelter of the fly. |
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sedges |
"After 6 portages, I was stopped on Edge Lake by a very threatening storm with an abundance of lightning. I threw my outfit ashore on a peninsula at the north end of the lake and was surprised to find a rarely used, barely comfortable campsite. I got the tarp up as the rain began and settled in to watch the storm with level ground and a nice sitting rock beneath the tarp. The remaining outfit was left packed to stay dry if the weather got really messy. I read and made hot tea for 4 hours. It rained so hard I couldn't see beyond the tarp. I set up the tent at 9:45 with more storms threatening." |
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andym |
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Jackfish |
: "Does CCS run sales on their tarps?" On occasion. They also run specials at Canoecopia in Madison, WI in March and at Midwest Mountaineering in Minneapolis during their big bash. (Someone will have to help with the dates.) There may be another time or two. p.s. Please register and become a member here at BWCA.com. It's free, painless and we're all (generally) pretty good folks. :) |
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Wally13 |
Thanks for posting those 2 alternative methods for tying the Siberian Hitch. They are both a lot easier to tie. I am thinking I may even remember how to tie it come June. LOL. |
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sedges |
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Fizics |
sedges: "Don't you hate it when your tent gets soaked before the fly gets on or when you are packing it up. With the proliferation of free-standing tents, tarps are useful keeping your tent dry while erecting or packing it up. Arriving at a campsite or packing up to leave in the rain, the tarp is the first thing up and the last thing packed. Set up the tarp, assemble the tent under it then move the tent out. Bring the tent under the tarp to pack it if you are packing your outfit to move in the rain." You sir, should just hammock :) |
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Minnesotian |
HowardSprague: "mjmkjun: "boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " Howard, i found the youtube videos to be confusing as well. I learned how to tie it from here: Animated Knots Siberian Hitch |
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Frenchy19 |
boonie: "It took me a while to get it too, but it really is better, Howard. Both of these vids are much more clear; thanks! |
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whiteh20 |
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jcavenagh |
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Nomadmusky |
It's a place to: 1. gather 2. get out of the wind 3. get out of the rain 4. lay extra gear and packs 5. get out of the sun 6. cook 7. play cards 8. watch the world rather than get outside and camp only to sit in a nylon shell 9. have a center piece to your camp Nomad A place to |
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LindenTree3 |
Awesome tip on the different lengths of ropes with loops, I'm going to try it, I don't like having alot of rope hanging off of my tarps and on the tree. I allready use the caribiners you mentioned. |
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ockycamper |
We also have a smaller tarp set up over the "kitchen" area where we have a roll up table to cook on. All of us are hammock campers. Just about everyone has traded up for very large rain flies, some using Noah Tarps as rain flies. Works great to put gear under for changing. |
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jwartman59 |
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mjmkjun |
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TipsyPaddler |
OCDave: "For those of you posting your cordage lengths and such, thanks. I use 6'-10' tie out lines on my hammock tarps so it is valuable to learn how much longer you use on a group tarp. I use the CCS 1/8 poly rope on my 10x12 CCS tarp. I use 50' for the ridgeline and 20' at the four corners and center loops on the long side. Those lines are coiled secured with thick elastic hair bands. For the prusik knots on the ridgeline I used 3/32" paracord. Works great. I can tension the heck out of and it doesn't budge. I bring 80-100' of extra 1/8 poly rope in various lengths for the inevitable poorly placed tree or two. I started with 80' but my collection has grown from forgotten 'clothes lines' at campsites. Frequently its green, brown or camo colored ;-) |
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awbrown |
Nomadmusky: "We always use a tarp and it's the first thing we set up. Well said. Sort of like an outdoor family room. |
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SaganagaJoe |
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ockycamper |
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TipsyPaddler |
boonie: "Minnesotian: "boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " +1 Great set up! I was inspired by the youtube video mentioned earler as well. |
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frlu0501 |
They are much lighter than the blue tarps and much cheaper than any tarp I've seen mentioned. The grommets will rip. I simply bunch the tarp (where the grommet ripped), tie a knot in the tarp and tie rope around the knot. In 10+ years (usually 1-2 trips per year) I've bought maybe two. The nice thing about a cheap tarp is you can hang it near/over the fire grate to keep the fire dry, out of the wind, and not have to worry about the ashes burning pin holes in the tarp. We usually have our tarp plenty high so the ashes are usually cool by the time they hit the tarp. But it will eventually wear it out. We cook all our meals over the fire, so a cheap tarp that will keep us and the fire grate dry (and out of the wind) is a must. You can never have too much rope! |
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ParkerMag |
Wick: "What are your opinions on how much rope i should have. " I keep 25' lengths tied to each corner, 50' and the related prussics for the ridgeline, and 1.5' on the in-between loops. I also keep 3-4 unattached 25' lengths with each of my tarps I can use when something won't reach where I want it to go. |
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awbrown |
I also am a user of the figure nine carabiner's. I used to use girl's pony tail elastic bands to keep my corner ropes rolled up while in the tarp bag, but Dan Cooke showed me a better way. You roll them up around your hand, place the bundle slightly inside of the corner and tie them in place with the last foot or so of the rope. It works well and keeps the ropes from getting tangled. I've learned a lot about tarp usage by attending about a dozen demos with Dan Cooke. |
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bobbernumber3 |
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Jackfish |
It's the only positive about cheap plastic tarps though. I don't want to get burn holes in my nice CCS tarp any more than the next person, so since CCS tarps have so many other fine qualities, I'd never set it up over a fire where the burn holes could occur. No one goes on canoe trips with 100% of the best and most expensive gear, especially when they're just getting started in canoe tripping. It's a constant evolution - as gear improves, we buy better gear. As financial situations improve, we can afford better gear. Sometimes it's the angst of using crap gear that finally causes us to say, "NO MORE! I'm buying something better!" My guess is you'll own a CCS tarp when you're ready, and after you do, you'll be glad you did. |
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yellowcanoe |
CCS tarps are expensive but over the long haul because of their durability, probably the cheapest per use. Mine is over ten years old. I used to use Noah's and that was fine but too small for Allagash ridgepoles which are quite high.. The cat cut is decent in the wind but the 9x9 was like putting a hanky over your head. If you have two or more in your party you will want a tarp. Its possible to solo albeit somewhat miserably without one. I think most of us at the start used something cheap and after we could make the investment in a good quality long duration tarp did so. It is expensive to make all this investment at the start! |
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mschi772 |
LindenTree3: "mshi72, Hey, it's my honor to inform you of such a tip. All my cordage is the same color, and one thing I'd like to do is find a way to make my lengths more identifiable since it's not always obvious when they're bundled. Either different color cordage or maybe just using colored tape to wrap on them for quickly identifying their lengths. I do not have reflective cord, but I have thought about getting some and cutting it into 5' lengths to be used wherever I may decide reflective cord would be beneficial--this way I'd have the benefits of reflectivity without having to have investing in ALL of my cordage being reflective. |
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Savage Voyageur |
mschi772: "Reflective cord can be worth it if you walk around in the dark with a light source often and might otherwise trip over the cord. Kanoes told me about this trick. I took a 100 foot cord and cut it into 6 foot chunks with loops on the ends. Then I just grab a piece or two and hang a tarp or tie something up. I store them all on a carabiner and unhook them one at a time. This keeps the cord from a tangled mess. I used to cut a cord as I needed it in camp then after the trip it would just get bunched up, then at home I would toss it out. No more cord gets tossed this way. |
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OCDave |
For those of you using CCS 1/8 poly rope, what are you using for your prusik knots? The same 1/8 rope or something smaller? My CCS tarp is new, (actually it will be on Monday when I get to open it with feigned surprise but genuine delight) so I haven't had the opportunity to deploy it yet. Thanks |
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nctry |
A tarp can be the one thing that saves a otherwise miserable rainy trip. And possibly save a life should hypothermia set in... They don't have to be real big. Bring plenty of cordage. |
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Minnesotian |
boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " +1 on the Siberian Hitch. Learned it this year as well and made rigging the tarp a breeze. I have the ridge bag as well and a ridge line with prussk knots. I had that tarp up in rainy weather in a snap. |
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murphylakejim |
It's raining Want coffee Want food Want to get out of tent Set up tarp Make coffee Make food Sit and watch rain Rain stops Pack up gear Go |
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Wick |
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mschi772 |
I recommend, for your tie-outs that you use a figure 9 carabiner or Dutchware stinger clipped to the tarp to attach the cord to. Why? The cordage tied directly to the loops on the tarp would be more likely than the biners to damage the tarp loops over time; reflective cord can be especially cutting. Also, the fig9/stingers allow you to adjust the tension of the cord from inside the tarp quite easily instead of going out to the tree or stake which, if it's raining (most likely time you'd want to adjust tension) would be a bummer. I don't do a ridgeline with my 16' Kelty Noah tarp, so I can't comment on recommended length there, but I will tell ya what I do in general with my cordage. I have a number of different lengths of cord all with loops tied in the ends. Mostly 10' lengths, but some shorter and some longer lengths. I combine them loop-to-loop in order to create whatever length of cord I ultimately need. I find this also makes managing my cordage much easier than having to wrangle much longer lengths of cord at one time. I don't think I have any single length of cord longer than 20'. If you like hardware instead of knots, Dutchware has some other nifties that some people prefer for tying cord to trees/stakes instead of knots, too, but that's neither here nor there. Below are some shots of a family trip to Kickapoo Valley. It doesn't illustrate my personal cord methods as I had misplaced my cord, but we managed with some scraps of other rope and things. |
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mjmkjun |
boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " Thanks for the link. An easy knot. |
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boonie |
Minnesotian: "boonie: "I learned to tie the Siberian Hitch this year and found it to be a good knot for anchoring the end of the ridgeline. Here's Maddy the Goose's video on Siberian Hitch " My 14'x10' CCS 1.1 oz. silnylon tarp is also pre-rigged on a ridgeline with prussics and tie outs pre-rigged (3 per side) and in the ridgeline bag. This makes it much easier to set up, especially solo. |
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Wick |
Northwoodsman: I looked at the website, but i did not see what the ridgeline bag does for you? |
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NotSoFast |
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QueticoMike |
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Tony |
Wick: "Northwoodsman: ridgeline bag video here is a you tube vid on tarp set up using a ridge line bag. hope it helps tony |
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butthead |
Course there is the rain and wind reasoning, butthead |
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OldFingers57 |
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Wick |
Tony: " Great video Tony, thanks. It explained things nicely! I like the ridgebag. Gonna get me one. |
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DrBobDerrig |
I couldn't imagine not having one on a trip. I use the CCS lean 3 as a tarp on canoe camps For car camping I use Eureka_Northern_Breeze_Shelter worth every cent.....as they say 'happy wife happy life dr bob |
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DanCooke |
In the spring ,fall and winter when the bugs are not out it is a good way to travel light with no tent. I get satisfaction from the weather is ripping it up, I can be dry and warm under a tarp while watching the storm and the trees and lakes be assaulted by wind and rain or snow. |
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boonie |
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Fizics |
Even if the weather is ideal, a tarp is always useful. Idk about you but I ALWAYS get sunburns in at least one spot, not to mention i live by the saying "I promise you it will rain (when we go to the bwca)". One final note, the tarp is to a campsite what the pirate flag was to the ship. |
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andym |
I just got one of Dan's ridgeline stuff sacks. That will really make setup even easier. When I got it, I showed it to my wife and she was really impressed by it. That's the thing about small manufacturers like Dan who really use their own stuff. It is well thought out. |
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TomT |
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schweady |
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muddyfeet |
Fizics: ". The tarp is to a campsite what the pirate flag was to the ship." Ha! this is true. |
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Northwoodsman |
When you get to your campsite choose two trees that you want to use for your ridgeline. Pull a small section of ridgeline out of the bottom and secure the end around one of the trees using a bowline knot, or similar. Next secure the other end of the rope to the other tree; pull it tight and secure it using a truckers hitch. Slide your tarp across the ridgeline to where you want it located. Next tie out the 4 corner cords to trees if possible to stretch the tarp taunt. If it may get windy or rain heavily I tie out the 2 other cords as well. I may even use additional lines. The ridgeline stuff sack stays on the ridgeline. When it comes time to back it down do it all in reverse. The idea here is speed, efficiency, and your tarp never touches the ground. If your tarp is wet the sack keeps everything else in your pack dry. A few other tricks that I employ - I use prussik knots on lines that are about 18" long to secure the two ends of the tarp to the ridgeline. You can use these to pull the tarp tight along the ridgeline for ease in setting it up and keeping it tight. You want the tarp as tight as possible. It is strong and constructed well so don't be scared to pull it tight (within reason of course). Also on the loop that hangs out the end of the bag (the bottom?) I use a slip knot. I can loosen up the loop and take the sack and tarp around the first tree and place it back through the loop for the first knot. This is especially helpful when setting it up yourself. |
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Wick |
Why? What do you use them for? |
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inspector13 |
Rainy days. If you are just going in overnight I wouldn't bother. |
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ozarkpaddler |
inspector13: " Otherwise you're stuck in the tent. So much nicer to eat, cook, and enjoy the setting underneath a tarp than under the hood of a raincoat. Plus helps keep gear drier. |
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mschi772 |
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ozarkpaddler |
dentondoc: "In the shoulder seasons, I will commonly set my tarp (if I only have 1) in such a way that the ridge line can be adjusted and the "back half" dropped to the ground and anchored. This affords you both wind and rain protection (so long as you have given some forethought to which direction the wind might be coming from through your campsite). Keep in mind that the stronger the wind, the more ample the ground anchors need to be because you are no longer shedding wind, but blocking it. I do something different when it's cold also; when I'm camping in the winter I do what I call my "Winter pitch" with a pole. I can cook and the stove warms me up as the tarp is blocking the wind & weather. |
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I-Hawk |
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awbrown |
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Northwoodsman |
Do yourself a huge favor and get a CCS tarp, ridge line bag, and extra length of reflective cord. It's money well spent. Don't skimp. I personally like the 1.1 oz., 10' x 14'. It gives you a huge area if there is no wind, and gives you an ample area to drop down to deflect the wind or a horizontal rain. |
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Wick |
Thanks for the info! I will add it to my pounds,,,:) What is a good size/brand for 2 people? I looked at the ccs tarps. That seems expensive, but all this gear does. Which weight is good, the 1.1 or the 1.9? I am guessing we are not talking about Walmart blue tarps here. |
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BnD |
Cedarboy: "First thing that goes up and last thing that comes down. It creates a space for people to gather and socialize. If its raining people run to their tents unless you have a tarp, then they stay out under it. I like the sun shade they provide. If I had to take just one item for shelter it would be my CCS tarp or a tarp shelter(CCS Lean # Plus). I have converted quite a few of my friends and family to the world of a good tarp. +whatever. Many the time we set up the tarp in the rain upon landing at a new campsite to get organized b4 setting up the tent its stays pre-rigged in the stuff sack for quick deployment. Many the time I've packed up to leave under the tarp in the dry while its raining. Its probably the only thing I put ahead of my Helinox chair in order of important camping equipment. A great tarp is worth the money but any tarp is better than no tarp IMO. Good luck with your choice. |
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mirth |
Wick: "basically a porch and dining room for when it rains so you do not sit/eat/cook in the tent. That seems reasonable. I would get tired of sitting in a tent. Most of us aren't talking blue tarps but that doesn't mean they aren't in use by some. The Kelty Noah's tarps are decent quality starter tarps. I have a Guide Gear 12x12 tarp from when they were almost direct clones of the Keltys and it's been on every trip except one when we took my buddy's Noah. If you're a minimalist, 9x9 would probably work. 12x12 is a more common size. CCS tarps are really nice, my Scout troop owns one. I'd say it would be a good piece of gear to aspire to, after several trips and you're sure this is not going to be a one or two off. Campmor also at one point had a basic nylon tarp, also decent for the price. Probably the same area as a Noah's. |
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mirth |
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jcavenagh |
The issue is those will rip at the grommets in a reasonably high wind. Generally speaking, tarps with tie-out loops, instead of grommets, will last much better in high winds. Also the blue tarps are bulky and heavy. A less expensive alternative to CCS is Kelty Noah tarps. But those are cat-cut, not rectangular, so you have fewer configurations available. There are lots of tarps available on the interwebs, but stick with higher quality tarps. Some good ones are OES, Arrowhead Eqpmnt, Hammock Gear, Warbonnet Outdoors. Nothing worse than carrying a crappy tarp along only to have it fail at the worst possible moment. |
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unshavenman |
Wick: "basically a porch and dining room for when it rains so you do not sit/eat/cook in the tent. That seems reasonable. I would get tired of sitting in a tent. Definitely do not get a blue tarp. It cannot stand up to the rigors of the wilderness for any length of time and then when it fails, you are carrying around useless weight with no garbage can in sight. As far as purchasing a tarp, if I was just starting out and didn't want to commit to large purchases until I knew I liked doing this, I would rent a decent tarp from an outfitter. For two people you could get by fine with a 10'x10' tarp, but a more common and probably more useful size is 10'x12', and 10'x14' is great as well. Any larger and it can sometimes be challenging to find a spot large enough to hang it. 1.1 oz. is a bit lighter to carry and more expensive than 1.9 oz. material. Both block the rain equally well, but you do get more UV protection from the thicker material. Personally, both of my tarps are Cooke Custom Sewing 1.1 oz. Tundra tarps. They are not inexpensive, but many people here swear by Dan's gear, and heck, it's made in Minnesota. Just do a site search and you can spend days reading about tarps. |
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Jaywalker |
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LindenTree3 |
Mine is a FSS, Forestry Service Supplier. I do want to upgrade to a CCS tarp soon. |