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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Who uses a
 
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SweetBerryWine
07/17/2018 09:07AM
  
Greetings Dan,


A true honor to speak to a legend! I own a 1986 MRC "Pearl". The boat is 13.5' and I'm 160lbs. Its an asymmetrical hull, round, and built with a little rocker. My solo experience is limited to paddling smaller 2-person canoes with the boat reversed. The boat has 6" of freeboard capacity @ 270lbs.

 
Portage99
07/17/2018 10:34AM
  
I have the Pearl. It is not the ideal to trip with. I try to avoid saying, "you can't", because I have done things and used equipment that people said I "can't do". LOL I advocate for spending lots of time on the water-just you and the boat, to see what you and the boat can actually do.


I use it to practice freestyle. It seems it would be a wily boat to trip with. But, practice does lead to new discoveries. Try her on a local lake, loaded up and see if you get it to work out for you. It will be a lot of work, I would imagine. It would be easier to use a tripping boat, unless you are really set on using the Pearl.


This is just my opinion from having the boat. I am sure experts can tell you about the technicalities of the boat characteristics.



 
DanCooke
07/17/2018 01:14PM
  
All I can offer is spend as much time paddling it. Hans Solo Compared it to Blackhawk and Pat Moore canoes, I never put one in the water. If it is similar to a Blackhawk nighthawk / Fishhawk (I Tripped in a fishhawk for several years) you will find it to be extremely different from your tandem paddling solo.


Next your tripping style- Scale 1- 10 1 being Travel every day covering lots of miles- Speed being important? or 10 being to Lolly gag to get to a camp and do more dilly dallying.
Then Rate what you bring Scale 1- 10 with 1 being minimalist, 10 being kitchen sink with multiple hobbies/ passions brought along.


E mail me and maybe I can break free and paddle a lake by me. I am a bit overbooked at the moment.
 
justpaddlin
07/23/2018 04:39PM
  
Another nice feature of freestyle boats is that they don't take much muscle to push so you can cruise for hours without the boat punishing you...although the pace will be below a pure lake boat. One thing I've found is that a bent shaft paddle may help give a feeling of slightly more glide...freestyle boats accelerate beautifully but they also decelerate between strokes so the faster cadence from a bent shaft makes the boat feel more like it's gliding.


I think Cliff Jacobsen used a Flashfire for tripping before he switched to a Yellowstone, right?
 
SweetBerryWine
07/19/2018 09:34AM
  
Portage99,


It's nice to read that someone else has a MR Pearl! From what I gather, these boats are rare. They were only made from 1986-1988! I am almost done refurbishing the boat, and will hopefully be able to take it out this weekend.
 
SweetBerryWine
07/19/2018 09:36AM
  
DanCooke,


That would be wonderful! I'm sure I could break free one of these weekends and take a trip up to Lino Lakes for a quick paddle. I'll be sure to shoot you an email.
 
Portage99
07/19/2018 10:30AM
  
SweetBerryWine: "Portage99,



It's nice to read that someone else has a MR Pearl! From what I gather, these boats are rare. They were only made from 1986-1988! I am almost done refurbishing the boat, and will hopefully be able to take it out this weekend. "


Excellent! They are beautiful, interesting boats!
 
carmike
07/19/2018 12:08PM
  
I have a Blackwater Shadow that I putz around in from time to time. It's a "freestyle" canoe, too, and I've chosen not to trip in it...a little too tippy for my liking, especially when I do a lot of fishing on solo trips.


I know people who do trip in similar boats, though, so it's certainly doable. Just make sure you're (very) comfortable in the boat before heading out on a trip.
 
ozarkpaddler
07/19/2018 03:40PM
  
My wife used a Bell Flashfire for her "Everyday" boat for a few years and did some tripping in it. Definitely smallish, for that purpose, but doable.
 
yellowcanoe
07/19/2018 04:20PM
  
My go to boat is a WildFire.. Fine for Freestyle and also works well for tripping. It is trim sensitive though.. For years I thought 15 feet was the optimal length. It may be but there was so much unoccupied room.


My pack and 30 liter barrel fit fine in the WildFire. When you get to smaller boats you have to make sure you and your gear fits.


BTW boats that feel a little wild unladen are tamed a lot when loaded with gear.


You may find with symmetrical rocker that you have to watch for the dreaded stern quartering wind that breaks the stern free and be vigilant that it doesn't broach on large lakes.
 
SweetBerryWine
07/17/2018 08:32AM
  
I recently purchased an agile solo canoe that is labeled as a "freestyle" canoe.
I will ideally use this on smaller lakes in the BW, as the boat and I would fair poorly on larger lakes.

I have yet to take the boat on a trip and wanted to ask those of you who own smaller solo "freestyle" boats what your thoughts are regarding your canoe and its tripping capabilities?

I will do some testing on local MPLS lakes, but advice from those of you with smaller solo canoes would be great.
 
DanCooke
07/17/2018 08:54AM
  
I have used a Flashfire and Wildfire for tripping in the BWCAW. There are fine for small and big lakes once you get comfortable in them. Best to be sure you keep the canoe in trim- so being able to distribute your load is important. Waves on big lakes in the hulls I use are not much of an issue as you tend to be able to bob a bit more between the crests than longer hulls. At this point spending lots of time paddling the hull is the most important thing.


Without knowing the hull, you weight and weight of the load along with past paddling experience it is impossible to make any specific suggestions.
 
justpaddlin
07/20/2018 10:44AM
  
SBW, I think that freestyle boats can be excellent traveling boats. They accelerate effortlessly so should make it easy for you to push the weight of some extra gear. Plus some extra weight adds some momentum/glide to the boat which feels good for cruising especially since freestyle boats often don't have much glide. I like the way my Wildfire cruises with the added weight of a dog much better than empty. Of course you need to stay within the recommended weight range for the boat.
 
yellowcanoe
07/20/2018 05:14PM
  
Interesting historical note. FreeStyle is a technique rather than a boat. It came out of using static paddle placements on tripping hulls in the 80's. Then hulls tended to be straight keeled with little rocker then over the years designers found that paddlers wanted to day play and made designs that were easier to turn . They could go straight and still be used for touring. With the emphasis on big paddle blade area and less skin friction lengths of canoes decreased but stopped short of whitewater play boats.


The Dandy once upon a time ( Mike Galt) was regarded as a freestyle boat. Constant flared hull it had incredible stability heeled to the rail. But it was too wide for lots of paddlers. It had virtually no rocker and required a post to turn though with enough patience and waiting a christie would work too.


The Summersong by Sawyer was a tripping solo and also used early in FreeStyle..The post and wedge (both carving turns) were about the only maneuvers that worked.


FS hulls evolved to symmetrical rocker designs for a reason. If you can do something going forward , why not do it backward? ( Yes in tripping unless you made a boo boo and went somewhere you have to extract yourself from who cares about backward? After all your trip is not a series of u turns.


Its kind of odd to compare "FS" boats to essentially shrunken Prospectors without high stems.. But there you go..They sort of are.


FS had roots in tripping. Now at the symposia the emphasis is going back to tripping.. Part of the usefulness of some maneuvers is sidling up to beaches and beaver dams.
 
jwartman59
07/22/2018 01:22PM
  
jdmccurry: "From what I've seen of Freestyle canoes, they may not be ideal for tripping when you have to cover some distance. It seems that even a world champion freestyler cannot keep the boat on a straight track:



Marc Ornstein freestyle tracking struggles



Additionally, all of that audio equipment looks heavy and difficult to portage."


I don’t understand the why behind freestyle canoeing, maybe if all you had to paddle on was a farm pond? To my amature eyes it looks ......


I had a bell Yellowstone, not a freestyle canoe, but 13 feet. It was a useless bdub canoe, I had used it for several week long trips, it forced you to slow down and enjoy the scenery.


Here is what I consider a fairly good demo of the freestyle technique, from Portlandia
 
ozarkpaddler
07/20/2018 07:21PM
  
justpaddlin: "SBW, I think that freestyle boats can be excellent traveling boats. They accelerate effortlessly so should make it easy for you to push the weight of some extra gear. Plus some extra weight adds some momentum/glide to the boat which feels good for cruising especially since freestyle boats often don't have much glide. I like the way my Wildfire cruises with the added weight of a dog much better than empty. Of course you need to stay within the recommended weight range for the boat."


Yeah, if I were lighter I can see using a Wildfire or even Flashfire as an "All around" boat. I felt like the Bell Starfire was like a XXL version of the Flashfire. Wonderful boat!
 
ozarkpaddler
07/23/2018 09:45AM
  

 
ozarkpaddler
07/23/2018 09:54AM
  
jwartman59: "jdmccurry: "From what I've seen of Freestyle canoes, they may not be ideal for tripping when you have to cover some distance. It seems that even a world champion freestyler cannot keep the boat on a straight track:




Marc Ornstein freestyle tracking struggles




Additionally, all of that audio equipment looks heavy and difficult to portage."



I don’t understand the why behind freestyle canoeing, maybe if all you had to paddle on was a farm pond? To my amature eyes it looks ......



I had a bell Yellowstone, not a freestyle canoe, but 13 feet. It was a useless bdub canoe, I had used it for several week long trips, it forced you to slow down and enjoy the scenery.



Here is what I consider a fairly good demo of the freestyle technique, from Portlandia "


Well, when it becomes all about the paddling. There are times I only have an hour to paddle and as you pointed out, the farm pond and some freestyle.....


Paddling is just like hunting and fishing there's lots of "Different strokes 'fer different folks!" When I read the BWJ I can't understand pushing it to get to a destination, then fishing dawn to dusk. Then I remember back, "Heheh, that was ME a few decades ago" (LOL)!


There is just something special about gliding around, "Dancing" with a canoe that is soothing and relaxing to me. Almost "Spiritual," like listening to a good sermon or watching a sunset while listening to the loons, sitting in a duck blind listening to those whistling wings as a flock circles you, or hearing bull elk bugling in early light on a frosty September morning.
 
jdmccurry
07/22/2018 10:18AM
  
From what I've seen of Freestyle canoes, they may not be ideal for tripping when you have to cover some distance. It seems that even a world champion freestyler cannot keep the boat on a straight track:


Marc Ornstein freestyle tracking struggles


Additionally, all of that audio equipment looks heavy and difficult to portage.