Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Fuel choice for 14 day trip
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HammerII |
A1t2o: "Am I one of the only guys that still prefers to cook everything over the fire with one pot and one skillet? We have gotten into taking a cheap stove for the morning coffee/tea. It is nice to have one on hand in case of a fire ban too. Cooking over a wood fire is just a part of the experience though." nope I can get a fire up and going in the amount of time it takes them to dig out a stove and get it going for boiling water. |
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HammerII |
dex8425: "Nobody uses cat food can alcohol stoves? For just boiling water, it's the most ultralight option other than a wood fuel stove, which are kind of a pain IMO. We use 1 ounce of HEET per day between my wife and I. That includes using stove for dinner and one cup of hot cocoa in the morning, not lunch. Ok I don't have cat food cans but I've got a few made from beer cans that are really awesome. Cheap to make and to run |
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hooky |
If neither of those is an option to extend your fuel supply, then I'd try to stay away from white gas and deal with the extra little bit of weight for another canister. I really just don't want the smell in my food bucket. |
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joewildlife |
Options: Optimus Nova white gas, two 20oz (?) bottles vs Jetboil and two regular top of butane cannister stoves, with two of the extra large cans. Weight and bulk ARE an issue. The 60L barrel pack is borderline too heavy and full on or past 11 day trips. We are going 14, so need two of the xtra large butane cans. Every morning, we need only to heat water for instant oatmeal, grits, coffee, and such. Every evening, we cook fish and a side, using the two stoves on the two cans of fuel at the same time. I only have one white gas stove, so cooking two things at a time on the white gas is not possible. Carrying a second butane cooking burner is easy, these little $10 Chinese stoves are the bomb. Not a big fan of cooking over the fire but we do carry a Purcell Trench grill. There is the possibility of a burn ban, especially in the Woodland Caribou. Big fan of the speed of heating water for morning coffee on the Jetboil. Big fan of the simplicity and cleanliness of the butane. Not a fan of the smell of white gas in the food barrel. Two people. My 22 year old daughter carries the two packs like a champ. I think the barrel was pushing 65 pounds last year. I portage two Kruger Sea Winds. I would like to know what you guys use for long trips in pairs, and why. Joe |
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user0317 |
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jcavenagh |
Clean, quiet, and ultra-lightweight. But the question posed was white gas or butane canisters. So given the question we try to respond with opinions that will be helpful. |
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boonie |
I take my Jetboil, which I like for its speed and efficiency. I have monitored my usage for several years so that I have a good idea of how much fuel I need. All of my meals are dehydrated and require only boiling water. The water does not need to be boiling for hot drinks, so uses a little less fuel. All breakfasts are cold cereal - requires no fuel. Lunches - bars, trail mix - do not require cooking either and are "calorie dense", especially the nuts. All that's required beyond the Jetboil stove to complete the kitchen is a cozy to keep the meal warm while it rehydrates, a spoon, a mug for my coffee, a lighter, and fuel. There is nothing to clean but the spoon, which requires no additional supplies. The empty bag is simply closed and put in the garbage. This reduces the weight and bulk of "kitchen" considerably, as well as the time and energy needed for meal prep and clean up. Some other things I do - monitor the stove so it doesn't use fuel unnecessarily. It only takes a minute to heat water for coffee and a minute and a half for dinners. I also read that canister stoves are more efficient when they aren't run at full throttle, so I only turn it up about 1/3 to 1/2. I can usually go between 9 & 10 days on a 4 oz. fuel canister. I just did 16 days and didn't use the full 8 oz. canister. When I get home, I'll weigh it to see what's left and how much I used. I weigh the canisters before I leave and after I return, as well as testing each one. I don't have the information handy at the moment, but when you go up a size in canisters, the fuel goes up faster than the weight of the container. A canister with four ounces of fuel weighs about twice that. An 8 oz. canister weighs between 12 and 13 oz., or about 65% of the total weight. Not sure about the 16 oz. ones. For what I do, one of those would be enough for the trip you are planning. Another advantage of the canister stoves is that a spare is small, light, and cheap. I assume this is for a trip next year and you have time to experiment, and compare things. I'm sure you can use some of the ideas in this thread to help. I realized a long time ago that I wasn't going to save any significant amount of weight by switching from one to the other, so just went with what was simplest for me. Good luck! |
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PineKnot |
I think I am in the minority here, but I started tripping using white gas but have gone exclusively to the Jetboil and Primus stoves for all my trips the past several years. I have 2 cups of coffee each morning and a freeze dried dinner every 3 or 4 days. I have found that one 230 gram canister can boil the water needed for this coffee and meals will make it through about 14 days. I also carry two of the little primus stovestops (also have one of the Chinese knockoffs which work just as well) and use them for ovaeasy eggs/precooked bacon/pan bread on layover days and dinners of fried fish and sides of pasta-roni or knorr noodles. I can make the egg breakfasts and dinners on one 230g canister each week (this is for me and a fellow paddler, usually my son). If and when a canister is empty, I find that smashing it flat helps to reduce bulk in the pack. On my recent 2 week Q solo, I made it through the two weeks using only two 230g canisters (although I brought four just in case). I'll admit that I don't eat as much on solo trips than when I trip with others. I have found the Jetboil and canisters to be so convenient, especially the Jetboil in the mornings, compared to white gas (and several trips when the white gas containers leaked all over the food pack). ps. I also carry a Purcell trench grill that I use only when I want baked lake trout in foil cooked over the fire. Hope you find this perspective useful. |
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Cedarboy |
CB |
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joewildlife |
Joe |
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dex8425 |
There are some drawbacks, which I recognize, but for weight and bulk and cost it's gotta be the winner. |
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HammerII |
That is of course if there is no fire ban, and the fire bans are a rare thing not a everyday event. What it all boils down to (see I made a funny ) is the type of meals you're going to eat. Some require lots of fuel to simmer and others just to heat up water. What works great for me for one trip may not be the answer for the next trip. So depending on the trip I might luge along a two burner Coleman stove and the next one slide a little pocket stove into the pack with 4ozs of fuel. For a trip lasting two weeks I would plan on 2 forms for cooking. You always have wood to fall back on and what ever stove you like to use. My best advice is try out what you plan on cooking and the stove before you go on the trip. That gives you a better idea of fuel use per day and how much fuel you're going to need |
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A1t2o |
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bumabu |
Had to post this, ignore if you please. If there is no fire ban, bring one fuel canister packed inside of a coffee can twig burner. It takes a little more effort to heat water than a regular stove, but it is SUPER dependable! |
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joewildlife |
A few takeaways for me from all this: -more instant mashed potatoes, less Knorr sides that take 7-10 minutes to cook, and never any rice and beans that take 20 minutes or more....or plan on cooking those on the fire instead of the stoves. Conservation of fuel by menu choices! -I'm going to cook some of the fish in tin foil in the fire. Lake trout stuffed with onions and some lemon juice and spices is awesome -I need to pay more attention to how much I use over the course of a trip, so I know better for the next trip. I could just keep a "usage log" on the bottom of the fuel can with a sharpie. I will probably go with two of the big cannisters of fuel, and maybe stash a 4 oz one in the other pack as a backup. Also my original Jetboil had some saltwater use and lost a few horsepower, so I have replaced it. That will help heat my coffee/oatmeal faster and more efficiently. Joe |
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butthead |
8 ounce iso-butane can empty weight, 5.3 ounces 16 ounce iso-butane can empty weight, 7.2 ounces 11 ounce MSR bottle weight, 2.8 ounces 20 ounce MSR bottle weight, 5.2 ounces 30 ounce MSR bottle weight, 7.3 ounces In my case a 14 day trip needs a 20 ounce fuel bottle (30 in the winter). I'd need 2, 8 ounce canisters with a 4 ounce spare (I do not like to pack the large 16 ounce size), in the winter I do not use canister. I can cook for a week +, with 1 11 ounce bottle of fuel, if using canister an 8 ounce and a backup 4 ounce go. Your fuel mileage may/will differ. butthead |
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andym |
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TominMpls |
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Northwoodsman |
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JATFOMike |
Mike |
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butthead |
Jaywalker: "When doing your ciphering, don't forget that fluid ounces and weight ounces are not the same. One fluid ounce of white gas, depending on the brand, should weight about 0.75 ounces. The MSR super fuel I use is about 0.72. " I mentioned volume ounce vs weight ounce in the post above and yes there is a difference. Over the years I have used both and find I can camp/cook for 7 days using an 8 ounce canister or a 11 ounce fuel bottle (do not fill it with 11 ounces, 8-9 ounces, any more and it is overfilled, not enough air space to pressurize safely), gas stove interchangeably. I will have some leftover, bit more for liquid, less for iso-butane. butthead |
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jcavenagh |
And, yes, bring a wind screen, it is a big help. |
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MisterKrabs |
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boonie |
I have a Canister Gas Estimator Worksheet (Excel) I downloaded from some website, which I plugged my numbers into and it worked out very close to my actual usage. I can send it to you if you want, but you do need to know your numbers. Hope it all helps and you come up with a good plan. |
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Jaywalker |
I've stuck with white gas over iso, at least so far. Shaking a container (either) to estimate fuel left is ok, but I always end up opening up the top so I can look in and see exactly what's left. I also don't like the idea of generating empty canisters. When planning for a 17 day solo trip to WCPP this year, I got a Solo Lite twig stove to help reduce the fuel carried. WCPP got put on hold due to the fires, but I did get to test the Solo on a 9 BWCA trip and loved it. Won't help in a fire ban, but I'd definitely bring it on any extended trip to reduce fuel carried. I may size up to the Titan (next size up) for me as it's faster to boil/more heat, and it would defo be better for two. |
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dsk |
When I start my stove it looks like the wind automatically increases, so I carry a wind protecting piece of aluminum many yrs ago: drawing Saves lots of fuel! dsk |
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joewildlife |
My Cooke 60L barrel bag has two outside pockets that would be perfect for keeping the white gas bottles out of the food/kitchen barrel. Problem is I always have Nalgene water bottles in those pockets to carry the day's water. We always start out with two liters of water in the pockets and end up carrying the other two individually...sometimes we do use it all before hitting camp on a hard paddling/portaging day. Maybe Dan should actually put four outside pockets on the barrel? LOL Joe |
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BuckFlicks |
I know a lot of people like to cook nice elaborate hot meals at dinner time as a camp comfort. That's fine. For me, the comfort is the reduction in space and weight in my pack in terms of food, fuel, and pots/pans. For comfort food, I might take some chocolate or a small flask of whiskey, but I'd much prefer to spend that time and energy in camp doing something else rather than cook prep and dishes. Just my preference. I don't have a JetBoil stove, I just have a MSR pocket rocket stove and a titanium pot. This works nicely for 2 people because the standard JetBoil pot doesn't hold enough water for 2 freeze dried meals. There is a bigger pot you can get that will, though. Boonie hits the nail on the head when he describes cleanup as: a) lick the spoon clean and put it away. 2) close the bag and put it in the garbage. That's it. Best part. |
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boonie |
I started weighing my canisters before and after and marking the results - how much fuel I used, how much was left - on the bottom with a "sharpie" just like you're planning to do. After doing that for a few trips, you will get a pretty good average. Instant rice and couscous (and grits) are also things that don't need to be simmered, just added to boiling water and put in a cozy. In addition to adding vegetables, nuts, fruits, seeds, spices, herbs, and meats (foil pack, etc.), I have at times taken some of the shelf-stable ethnic meals to combine with them. While not as light as dehydrated, split between two people with rice, one or two are not excessively heavy. I'll send you a couple of other things I have in an email when I dig them up. But here is the ultimate fuel-saving cooking method, especially for those of us who are "hot" :) It would probably pay for itself in fuel saved on your trip! |