Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: How much quality would you sacrifice...
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Ragged |
I also look at it this way, and I’m sure its unpopular, but many of these manufacturing jobs were never glamorous or high paying, sadly often done by undocumented workers anyways. If some of those have to go somewhere else in order for a company to reduce overhead and keep the high paying technology and development jobs then that’s just a necessary evil. A company that becomes stagnant due to crushing employee overhead is almost as bad as a company that just closes the doors. |
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Benutzer |
Another option that I take advantage of quite often is to buy used, from someone in the USA. It doesn't matter where the product was made then, someone here receives the $ for it, and I can get much better quality than I would normally be able to afford. |
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andym |
For the military tents you are giving something up: they are a little on the heavy side. |
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Scout64 |
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Beaverjack |
quote tonyyarusso: "None. If locals can't match quality, they don't deserve my money. I'm willing to sacrifice cost for quality, but not quality for source." Very few times Americans can't match quality - what they can't match is price. I'll pay a little more for American goods. I don't buy anything made in Viet Nam or Red China. |
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Coda1 |
quote PINETREE: "Interesting on the Military eureka tents. I know the timberline models are overseas,at least they use to be. I know Granite Gear(I really like their stuff) got a multi- million dollar military contract for backpacks,does anyone know where the military packs were made? I am very curious?" I believe military packs are also required to be American made. I checked a couple of Granite Gear tactical packs on the following site and they were made in USA. http://www.us-elitegear.com//brand.html?brands=111 |
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PINETREE |
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whiteh20 |
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thistlekicker |
But canoe gear is actually a good opportunity to buy USA-made because it's somewhat of a niche market and the larger companies - which are often the ones outsourcing - aren't necessarily interested in things like packs designed specifically for portaging, canoe paddles, barrel harnesses, etc. This might not help you find an affordable American-made tent, but keep your eye out for items where there are good alternatives to Made in China. You could also adapt your style/budget to the American-made gear that is available, like the Tarptent example above. |
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thistlekicker |
quote kanoes: "are there any tents still made in the US? im curious. There is a company named Diamond Brand out of Fletcher, NC that does American-made backpacking-style tents for the US military. Not sure if they sell to the public or if they do, what they cost. |
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HowardSprague |
Once I narrow down my choices in terms of product and an acceptable price range, a product made in the US or in a European country will trump something made in a communist country (or any country with a disregard for human rights). |
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Savage Voyageur |
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Bdubguy |
I like this quote - "The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgetten" |
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Frenchy |
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tjburns1 |
So at what point do you buy for quality over domestic production? I've been looking at a lot of different gear, made all over and for me, it's a hard call to make. Do I spend $300+ on a tent from manufacturer X, produced in Asia but with impeccable customer service and reliability track record or do I buy from manufacturer Y who produced domestically but who's product has known to be prone to seam failure or faulty poles but who also has excellent customer service? |
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tjburns1 |
quote tjburns1: "Big Agnes makes tents in Colorado." Or they did. I have a BA tent that says made in America. |
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maxxbhp |
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andym |
Tarptent website |
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tjburns1 |
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boonie |
quote tjburns1: "Do I spend $300+ on a tent from manufacturer X, produced in Asia but with impeccable customer service and reliability track record or do I buy from manufacturer Y who produced domestically but who's product has known to be prone to seam failure or faulty poles but who also has excellent customer service?" Buy the best quality you can for wilderness trips. Excellent quality is the best customer service. Excellent customer service does not make up for a product that lets you down halfway through a 100-mile wilderness trip. |
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Sierra1 |
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nojobro |
quote maxxbhp: "I think you have to be realistic, manufacturing is all but dead in the US. There's ONE baseball glove made here. If you have a realistic option to put money in your next door neighbor's pocket vs somebody in Sri Lanka, hell yeh, go for it. There are also some items where the quality of our stuff clearly justifies a higher price, sometimes not, you just have to do what's best for you sometimes. " But...aren't you putting money into the pocket of whomever owns the company? Not the poor bloke in Sri Lanka who's just making a (probably very small) wage. (I agree with you...but the person getting the most $ is not the dude in Sri Lanka) |
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kanoes |
i know ccs leans are but to me they arent a "tent" as most people think of tents. |
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thistlekicker |
quote Frenchy: "Aren't Kelty Tents also Made in Boulder CO.? I don't know with 100% certainty, but seriously doubt it. |
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Ragged |
quote thistlekicker: "quote kanoes: "are there any tents still made in the US? im curious. They also do contract mfg for another tent company, starts with an N ends with an O |
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tjburns1 |
I personally buy the best gear I can afford. I often search out my gear with pretty specific requirements and don't always even look at where it was manufactured if I find something that meets my requirements. I think buying used locally is a great suggestion, and something I do frequently. |
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Naguethey |
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tonyyarusso |
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awbrown |
So, I began to think about my camping/canoeing equipment. So, I checked. Tent- Made in USA Tarp- Made in USA Packs- Made in USA Stove and Cooking Gear- Made in Sweden Axe- Made in Sweden Saw- Made in Sweden Sleeping Pad- Made in USA Sleeping Bag- Made in China Canoe(s)- Made in Canada Paddles- Made in USA PFD's- Made in USA Knife- Made in USA Long John's (Merino Wool)- Made in Sweden Socks- Made in USA Boots- Made in USA Jeep-Made in USA I was actually surprised that only one major item was made in China. |
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Naguethey |
But your still on the right track. Buying american or canadian or another decent forgein country that pays it's workers what they are worth. Rather than treats people like replaceable garbage like china and vietnam does. |
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Beaverjack |
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JJ396 |
quote nojobro: "quote maxxbhp: "I think you have to be realistic, manufacturing is all but dead in the US. There's ONE baseball glove made here. If you have a realistic option to put money in your next door neighbor's pocket vs somebody in Sri Lanka, hell yeh, go for it. There are also some items where the quality of our stuff clearly justifies a higher price, sometimes not, you just have to do what's best for you sometimes. " I will NOT put money in the pockets of a supposed "American" company that outsources manufacturing to some third world country. That company has sold out the American workers and does not deserve my money. These companies outsource to save on labor, but the prices of thier products doesn't go down to reflect these "savings". It is not always possible but BUY MADE IN AMERICA. |
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PINETREE |
I know Granite Gear is still trying to keep as much work locally as they can and they did get a multi-million dollar U.S. military contract for backpacks(where made I don't know). Maybe some of the packs are made locally now, I am not sure. If you want to blame somebody,blame the trade system where workers get paid nothing,and work in unhealthy conditions over seas. I do think we are starting to see where some businesses are coming home. I will buy locally and U.S. or Canada(I think of them as a extended family) products if I can,even if a little higher priced. |
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Naguethey |
Hahaha that's for sure. Since this in an internet forum and the keyboard your typing on was made in chine most likely ;] It's a shame that our government has pushed american business's out of our borders. It's truely impossible to buy just about anything that's 100% made in america now. Absolutely anything that has electronics has china made parts in them. Hell levi's, chuck taylor, and now supposedly redwings are all made outside our country. Who's left here that makes american gear.. Maybe that'd be a good thing to post and pin to a top of a forum. A gear made in america by americans post. |
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twston |
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timatkn |
quote twston: "I just saw a news report last week about how the wages over seas are going up so now it is becoming cheaper to bring the jobs back to the USA. The story made me happy. I believe it was ABC News. Good stuff. At one point I was considering Granite Gear but found out there stuff was not made in America. I have been spending my hard earned $ on packs from Kondos and will be purchasing from CCS soon. I have not used them yet but what I have seen so far looks to be very high quality." Saw a similar report a couple of months ago on a local TV show highlighting some MN businesses that kept manufacturing local and now they have a competitive advantage. Also an American worker with benefits and decent pay is at least 4x more productive than Asian workers (excluding the Japanese). With Chinese wages rising, less productivity, and oil prices rising it is not as cheap as it once was to ship jobs over seas. I don't think this a big trend, the flip side of the equation is a lot of Americans don't want these jobs....They will never be what we consider high paying--even if the jobs come back to the USA. Who knows what will happen. T |
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tjburns1 |
quote JJ396: "quote nojobro: "quote maxxbhp: "I think you have to be realistic, manufacturing is all but dead in the US. There's ONE baseball glove made here. If you have a realistic option to put money in your next door neighbor's pocket vs somebody in Sri Lanka, hell yeh, go for it. There are also some items where the quality of our stuff clearly justifies a higher price, sometimes not, you just have to do what's best for you sometimes. " I don't know if I can get down with "sold out the American worker". Sure it's cheaper to outsource, but the American education system and the drive for high paying, degree requiring jobs has made it nearly impossible to find enough workers willing to work in the manufacturing industry for even a livable wage. The American worker, in a word, has sold out himself in most cases with his high expectation in wage, work environment and benefits, overqualifications and the like. Like everybody else, I would like to see more manufacturing happening inside our borders by legal residents of this country, for livable wages, but blaming the lack of it strictly on business owner is folly. |
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Woods Walker |
Now if I'm looking at two items that are very close in quality & price... I would buy American even if the cost is a little higher (within reason). |
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JJ396 |
Made in USA |
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Naguethey |
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PineKnot |
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jb in the wild |
BA sleeping bags Colorado Tent Mt Alps Missouri Canoe Canada OTB Boots US Packs Granite Gear Used to be US not sure anymore Now I was just wondering about "The Taj" when I tried to find out where they were made all I could find on REI site was Imported. Does anyone know where they are made? JB |
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tjburns1 |
quote Beaverjack: "This thread is mislabled. With American goods, it's not the quality that you're sacrificing. Frugality/greed is what drives people to purchase foreign goods, not the desire for better quality in 99.9% of the cases." The thread was not mislabeled. It may have evolved. But the question was posed hypothetically. If your numbers are right, then I was asking about the .1% or cases. While you didn't answer the question asked, I will say I'll add availability to the list of why people buy goods not made in America. |
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Beaverjack |
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Beaverjack |
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BWPaddler |
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tjburns1 |
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Lymphocytosis |
Most of my cooking gear is ultralight and again, either made by me or by small industries here in the US, namely a small alcohol stove and my Emberlit. The only thing that I can thing of that wasn't is my little Ti pot. Even my spork was made here. My packs, all made in Lino Lakes by our own Dan Cooke or someone in his shop. My clothing is where it starts to fall apart. A lot of my outdoor clothing is from Cabela's. All made in China. Probably my socks and boots are the only things made here. I don't care so much about ONLY buying US made, but I do like supporting cottage shops from people that I know by name. |
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JJ396 |
quote tjburns1: "quote JJ396: "quote nojobro: "quote maxxbhp: "I think you have to be realistic, manufacturing is all but dead in the US. There's ONE baseball glove made here. If you have a realistic option to put money in your next door neighbor's pocket vs somebody in Sri Lanka, hell yeh, go for it. There are also some items where the quality of our stuff clearly justifies a higher price, sometimes not, you just have to do what's best for you sometimes. " I guess I don't consider expecting a decent wage for a days work means a worker has "sold out himself". There are plenty to blame the loss of American jobs on. It isn't just the buisness owner. I think if people would take a little time to look for American made products it would help immensely. I just don't like to send my money to other countries if I can avoid it. |
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Naguethey |
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AndySG |
quote Naguethey: "There's interest for sure. I for one would most definately do my best to keep money I spend in american pockets." Yep.....if its made in the USA, I'm all over it. We need manufacturing industries and jobs here. I don't care who owns the company. I get somewhat PO'ed when people buying cars say: "I made sure the car had a "J" as the first letter of the VIN...that way I knew it was made in Japan." |
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Coda1 |
I believe this thread I started 7 years ago is the most complete list of American made camping gear on this site. Feel free to add anything not listed yet. Plus it bumps it back to the top of the forum. Made in USA thread on BWCA.com These are the American tents that I know of. Tarptent - www.tarptent.com Snow Trekker Tents - www.snowtrekkertents.com - Winter Tents Kifaru - www.kifaru.net - Winter Tents Eureka military tents http://military.eurekatents.com ORC Industries - www.orcind.com Diamond Brand http://www.diamondbrand.com/manufacturing/ quote Naguethey: "Your forgetting one part.. Only 30% or 40% of a product has to be made in the usa to be stamped made in usa. From the FTC website on what can be labels as made in USA. "that the product is all or virtually all made in the United States" |
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PINETREE |
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