Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: Voyageurs' Route Challenge Open Invite
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Mzee |
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JimmyJustice |
WW is correct. The Pigeon is not kind to the bottom of your boat. If renting is an option for you, I recommend you rent. Mzee, glad to see that you are back for another challenge. Stepping up and starting in International Falls with the other major leaguers. Outstanding. |
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BeaV |
quote IceColdGold: "Hey Beav, how is the pigeon river as far as wear and tear on a brand new Prism? Thinking about starting at Moose lake. " It depends on if you're concerned about putting scratch marks into the new boat's hull...because you likely will. I've been through there 3 times now and the last 2 times the area around where the English Portage used to be has been boulder-strewn shallow rapids. But what we've learned is there's no use trying to stay in the boat when you hit a shallow rapids. Best just to plan on wet footing it through the shallow spots and this helps prevent deeper gouges but you will still have to pull the canoe over boulders. Like most rivers up there, they rise and fall quickly with rain events. If we're lucky, we will get some good rain a day or 2 prior to getting there. Then it can be run and is more just avoiding a few of the bigger boulders. But it is rapids and the water is stained...so even if you think you have a good line, boulder interferences happen:) I have looked at the September hydrograph for the Pigeon for the last 6 years, and most of the time, the river flow is at 150-200 cfs = walking the English Portage area. The time I went through without wet footing it, flow was around 500 cfs. Below paragraph is copied from the Park Service. •The USGS provides a duration hydrograph that is very useful for forecasting paddling conditions on the Pigeon River from South Fowl Lake to Ft. Charlotte. After examining the current hydrogaph (be sure to select the right year) you should note that very difficult paddling conditions can be expected at 100 cfs (cubic feet per second) and below. At this low water stage, you can expect exposed rocks in the river channel- especially where the English portage used to be located. The English portage is likely little used today as there is typically more than sufficient water to float through this section of river. Very good paddling conditions can be expected at 500 cfs. Conditions for paddling become more complex and difficult as discharge increases above 500 cfs. |
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BeaV |
quote Mzee: "BeaV. I'm in and will try solo from IF this time." Awesome, and looking forward to seeing you again! And thanks for the idea of "incubating" this event for this year. I see you are registered for the North Carolina Ultra Marathon Challenge next month- good luck and safe paddling! |
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mirth |
Thinking I might use the Northstar for this... |
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JimmyJustice |
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WhiteWolf |
Good Speed to all and may the wind be at your backs and your backs be light. Hope to see you all next year!!! |
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TomT |
I can't go this year but if it stays in September I will aim for 2018. It's a great excuse to get in great shape. I would love to paddle my solo with my dog on this. Go light and stealthy. Best of luck to all participants. |
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muddyfeet |
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wrestlencanoe |
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WhiteWolf |
quote Grandma L: "Do you think going east to west has slowed his trip?" At least from Grand Portage to Rainy this is what I know. A soul would obviously be at a disadvantage going Up the Grand Portage. The Pigeon River would not help going up current. Not until they reach the Gunflint Lake area would they have any current in their favor. Prevailing Westerly winds would likely nullify that- especially on the bigger bodies of water such as Rainy and many others. Slowed his trip is kind of a misnomer as one doesn't know how much effort the soul wants to put forth and had put forth. More difficult would be a better description. |
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wrestlencanoe |
Lessons learned: *Get an early start, winds are usually lightest *wasted probably an hour looking for the portage around wheel barrel falls on the US side. Ended up taking the one on the Canada side. June 17 Crane Lake To Takumich 36 Miles (stayed with a group I know, they got the tow in,we paddled 5 am to 4 pm.) June 18 Takumich to Lac La Croix #150 8 miles (rain) June 19 Lac La Croix to Crooked #1878 16 miles (wind picked up, light rain) June 20 Crooked to Basswood #1620 25 miles June 21 Basswood to Knife #1440 27 miles June 22 Knife to Saganaga #2074 14.5 miles (wind stopped us on Saganaga before US Point) June 23 camp day wind June 24 Saganaga to Clove #438 18 miles (rain) June 25 Clove to Gunflint #2065 12 miles (rain and in the 50’s) June26 Gunflint to South #605 6 miles (dry out day) June 27 South to Duncan #664 9 miles June 29 Duncan to Flour Lake Campground 5 miles (New Pick Up Location) 176.5 rounded to 180 miles |
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BeaV |
quote Grandma L: "Do you think going east to west has slowed his trip?" I doubt that's a big factor. There's been some good east and southeast winds for him and the current is in his favor going this way. He is still double portaging, I think- that's a time killer. He took a long break on Gunflint Lake. He's been paddling for over 2 months so he should be in great paddling shape but maybe the unplanned solo is wearing on him. He's a long way from finishing so he can't sprint, he's got to pace himself. However, seems like to make the mouth of the McKenzie, picking up the pace would be the thing to do. |
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BeaV |
Here's a link to a young Canadian named Pascal who is just now going through the route we will paddle, only in the opposite direction. Pascal's Travels This is his InReach satellite tracking page which is interesting to look at his travels and the map itself is a nice tool for prescouting for your own route. Noteworthy is that it took him about 13.5 days to get to Crane Lake. He is now heading toward International Falls. |
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Grandma L |
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paddlinjoe |
It appears I've had the correct end of the paddle in the water. Beyond that... there is a lot I can do to become more efficient. I will enjoy getting on the water and practicing. |
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BeaV |
So who's the most efficient at canoe paddling? It's the canoe racers who have honed their skills to get just a little more speed for just a little longer then their competitors. Take a look at these 3 you tube videos by a canoe racing coach and paddler. johnny and danny paddling clinic This is the first of three video clips to watch. Yes we're not all out racing, but we want to move the boat along as fast as we can, over a long day, without wearing ourselves completely out. So take a look at what these guys are saying and practice it before September. |
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mirth |
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Grandma L |
Fort Frances, Rainy Lake Visitor Center? |
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BeaV |
quote voyager: "I have to reserve a spot with Piragis for the shuttle to Crane and from Grand Port. or do you do that Beav? What are my next steps if any? I don't want to screw up if there is some kind of registration deadline or something. " Next steps?- You're good on my end. I'm only keeping track of challengers and starting points for shuttle purposes. I should clarify my original posting in regards to shuttle plans. Shuttle Arrangements- I will setup shuttles, as necessary, for those challengers starting at International Falls or Crane Lake on September 2nd. I will also have a shuttle for the return trip from Grand Portage to Ely on September 10th. For anyone starting at Moose Lake (Ely), starting on different dates, or finishing after the Sept 10th 11:00 am deadline at Grand Portage, you're on your own for shuttling needs. |
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BeaV |
quote muddyfeet: "I'll take a solo attempt at the 260. 10-4 on the starting location. That was a very impressive training day with a very good average moving speed! Interesting difference of opinion on distance covered. I've often wondered what the actual distance is covered versus measurements from tracking devices due to slight course variations. Keep in mind that my 262 mile length from IF to GP is based on lots of straight lines going from point to point on Google Earth. I refer to the 262 miles as map miles, while the actual will always be more based on how straight a line we paddle, side-wind drift, and the amount of shoreline hugging we do. |
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BeaV |
west side of VNP East side VNP BWCA Grand Portage National Monument |
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VaderStrom |
Edit: I found the past years trips and am definitely interested in joining if there is a team that would take me. |
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muddyfeet |
quote TomT: "Just want to thank Muddyfeet for his suggestion to use the small inflatable pad to sit on to avoid canoe butt syndrome... this will surely help. ...and my father always told me I'd never do anything useful sitting on my ass all day. Ha! Glad it works for you! |
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Grandma L |
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TomT |
*He suggested this earlier in this thread. |
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Shartbait |
Do you have a boat/head count of folks that are starting from each of the three locations? I'm mostly interested in those starting from Moose Lake - the shortest event. So far this year I've done a few events here in Virginia on the James River and also did the General Clinton for the first time. I think we may have set the record in the GC70. You must finish in 14 hours. Our time was 13:59:58! Needless to say there was no chicken dinner for us. I'm so glad to see this MN event taking shape for 2017 and applaud and appreciate your effort. Shartbait (Wayne in Virginia) |
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BeaV |
quote housty9: "Just curious to how many teams and people are doing this challenge?" There are 10 people currently participating with a makeup of 1- 4 person team, 1- 2 person team, and the rest solos. There are more pondering the idea and/or trying to get time off from work. |
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Grandma L |
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pswith5 |
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IceColdGold |
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WhiteWolf |
quote IceColdGold: "Hey Beav, how is the pigeon river as far as wear and tear on a brand new Prism? Thinking about starting at Moose lake. " I think Beav would agree. That time of the year with low water levles = 5 words; Not good. I would rent. The past two Challenges have not been kind to the bottom of canoes in and around the English Rapids. A new Prism>? I couldn't think of a worse place then the Pigeon that I would want to being a new canoe to. |
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housty9 |
quote MagicPaddler: "How will the start at 3 points work? Will every one start at the same time (Sept 2 @ 12:01 AM) or staggered starts."I think we all start about the same time, but not quite sure. |
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Sjlubner |
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muddyfeet |
quote Sjlubner: "Very tempting..." I must have read your trip report from 2 years ago ten times. Have had this route on my list since then. |
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WhiteWolf |
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housty9 |
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Grandma L |
But, I have a year to figure out an alternative plan. |
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anthonyp007 |
quote muddyfeet: "While you can pay to have a canoe or kayak pulled over the rails, it is much more practical and faster and free to carry the boat yourself: yes this is allowed. Awesome that you're thinking about it already...." Ok, another one to throw at you. Your BWCA permit... we all know the earliest you can pick up your permit is the day before entry, so did you guys pick up your BWCA permits early Saturday morning before putting in at IF? Is there a permit issuing outfitter over there? I'm curious to know how you did it. Thanks and congrats again on your accomplishment. |
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muddyfeet |
quote anthonyp007: " Yes. While exact route and rules were fairly loose, we all had to comply with both international border law, and regulations of the wilderness areas we were traveling through. This meant that BWCA permits for Sunday crane lake entry could be picked up (earliest) at open on Saturday morning. This was the major limitation to how early we were able to start on Rainy lake. Obviously an early start on this large lake is preferred. Credit is due to Adam from Piragis, who met us at Outfitting right as it opened and quickly got permits issued as soon as he could. GrandmaL was waiting with a car and canoe trailer pointed towards IF. I believe we left Ely at 6:13am and drove straight to IF, pushing away into the lake a few minutes after 9. |
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JimmyJustice |
Any update? The wifi in Grand Portage is spotty and slow, so if we don't hear from you, I assume that is why. |
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Mocha |
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Grandma L |
I will post the links to follow along. |
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jfinn |
Carbs could get reduced and fat increased. Fat is a more efficient source of fuel. Especially when you are talking about low intensity activity for many hours, a high fat diet works best. Think ketogenic. If you are not used to a high fat diet (80%), don't change now. If you are adding fat, great sources for a trip are seeds and nuts. Also powdered heavy cream and butter are nice additives to up the KCal without much weight. Good luck. I hope to be able to do this next year. A BWCA crossing has been in my mind for a few years and this sounds like FUN!!!! Good luck-be safe. John |
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WhiteWolf |
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BeaV |
quote WhiteWolf: "I plan on doing one of the two longer legs. " Good to see you'll be back again! I'd recommend you try for 9 people on your team:) I think a team of 9 or solo are the hardest ways to do this. Depends how you look at it I guess and who the 9 were compatibility wise. |
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BeaV |
quote BasecampMom: "That sounds awesome! Thanks BasecampMom. You know who I am but I should probably back up a little and give folks that are newer to this site a little background and why something like this is really awesome! I like adventuring here and there, especially by canoe. But most good adventures require a huge time commitment in planning and putting lives on hold. So one solution to this is to create the atmosphere of an adventure by adding a time constraint to a route that may not otherwise be too difficult. A real adventure usually involves some tough moments that create unforgettable memories. Not that paddling/portaging 200 miles is not hard or an accomplishment, but add a time constraint to it and you're in for a challenge. You will be forced to test mother nature and test yourself, even as your physical stamina decreases your mental toughness hopefully makes up the difference. Will you quit when things get tough or overcome it? There is something special that can come out from such struggles. I am hoping to just facilitate that opportunity for others to go for it. What makes this even better is the camaraderie that develops from getting people together with the same goals at the start, experiencing similar struggles along the route even if not paddling together, and celebrating with the same feelings of accomplishment at the end. It really is great. And that is what both WhiteWolf and JimmyJustice (whom have both completed this in prior years) are encouraging others to experience. One clarification- I am not adding anyone to my own team as I am doing it solo this year. A couple of my goals require that but the main goal is to see the beautiful waters of Lake Superior. That's another trick of successful adventuring- purpose. |
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kbm |
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muddyfeet |
Who's getting excited!! I think my navigation is squared away; training could always be better but is more than I ever have before anyway; still working on the menu; Equipment list has been practiced for a few years, but has yet to be finalized. Keeping it real with some back-of-the-mind worries, though: big water, fatigue, weather. Mighty Miss canoe marathon this Saturday: St Cloud to Champlain 55mi. I'll be starting early am at home upriver, so it'll be a 63mi day. |
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BeaV |
quote VaderStrom: "So, I've only done BWCA paddling and some in the Q...what do you do for the portions outside of the BWCA for portaging and camping? If there is a group shuttle back, will all folks be expected to show up at roughly the same time? Won't that result in a large group being together for the last day or two? I guess I could be way off but it seems this is a trip that encourages everyone participating to be dispersed into their own small groups. " For people who will start in International Falls, travel for most of the first 62 miles is through the Voyageurs National Park. There are established campsites throughout the Park and I believe must be reserved in advance. No entry permits required for the Park. There is only one portage (Kettle Falls) within the Park. Then these people and everyone starting at Crane Lake enter the BWCA with an Entry Permit for EP#12. Anyone starting at Ely pulls an entry permit there. All will exit the BWCA at North Fowl Lake. There's a few campsites on Fowl Lakes. The next established campsite is at historic Fort Charlotte where the Grand Portage trail starts at the Pigeon River. This is the only place allowed for camping within the Monument area and a free permit should be reserved if you will stop here to camp. This is a group camping area. The Grand Portage is within the Grand Portage National Monument and is managed by the National Park Service. Outside of the BWCA, there are no limitations on group size. However, people will be spread out over many miles anyway. This portage is grand. Grand as in 9 miles and can be very muddy if conditions have been rainy. Best to single portage this one or you're looking at 27 miles to double. Once down on Lake Superior, this is within the Grand Portage Indian Reservation and they have a marina, casino, and convenience store. Lodging can be had in the casino hotel or marina campground (both RV and tent sites available). Some people in prior years have had family come up and meet them here and take them home and thus avoid a long shuttle back to Ely. Many people (myself included) usually hang out at the finish welcoming in others and then will either go home with family or catch the shuttle back to Ely. If you miss the shuttle ride deadline...well your adventure isn't over yet. |
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JimmyJustice |
It's was a fantastic experience for me. I encourage anyone who has an inkling to try it. |
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quark2222 |
Tomster |
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BeaV |
1) International Falls- 262 mile route through Voyageurs Nat'l Park and all the BWCA west to east 2) Crane Lake- 200 mile route though all the BWCA west to east 3) Ely @ Moose Lake- 116 mile route The above start date is what I will have set up for shuttle to International Falls. If you want to start at a different time, that's fine but you will need to figure out your own means of shuttle. Same goes with the ride back from Grand Portage. I would recommend using my end date so we can gather in Grand Portage to celebrate and share war stories. The route to be followed should be the international boundary with Canada. Of course, longer routes are fine and maybe needed if the wind is blowing hard when you want to paddle one of many big lakes. Decision time- do you wait on shore for the wind to die down or continue on a longer route through a chain of many small lakes with as many portages? Cost: Equal split on shuttle costs. You should plan on doing this route UNSUPPORTED if you expect me to buy you a drink at Grand Portage. Unsupported means no preplanned assistance such as a support crew, phone calls to home for navigation assistance, and food resupply. Take what you need from the start. What really makes this a challenge is the time constraint component. The harder you push the greater the challenge. Paddling legends Verlen Kruger and Clint Waddell hold the fastest time, I.F. to Grand Portage, at 80 hours and 40 minutes set back in 1969. Your safety is strictly up to you and your team, if you go as a group. I would recommend bringing a Spot or Inreach and a PLB. Feel free to express your interest in doing this and post any questions you may have here or you can email me direct. Let me know if you’re looking to form a team, join a team, or have room for someone to join your team. Still Paddling, BeaV |
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BasecampMom |
I am not quite qualified to go on that kind of adventure [yet], but I can't wait to read all about it this fall! BeaV - that's pretty cool that you took the initiative to set this up! Pretty cool. |
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BeaV |
Hope all is well with your preparations...getting closer. Grandma L (Lori) from this site has volunteered to help us out with some assistance with organizing, shuttling, and keeping track of us while we're moving along. She will be emailing you soon with some questions. Thanks Lori for your help. Looking forward to seeing everyone in Ely September 1st. |
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JimmyJustice |
quote voyager: "We just got back from our 8 day trip out of Ely. We started out of Moose R. north. Got in as far as Finger L. I had a small red spot on my ankle before we started the trip. By Finger L. it had spread to a large area and my foot was swollen. Voyager, Glad to hear it was not septic joint and you will live on for another day and another paddle. Anything septic can be deadly. |
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BeaV |
quote voyager: " So the new game plan is start from Moose L. and have a more leisurely trip. We won't need a shuttle to Crane L. BeaV, but will still plan on the shuttle from Lake Superior. Sounds good voyager. It is good to work out the bugs beforehand- both paddling related and other kinds:) |
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voyager |
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BeaV |
-my goal is set -adjusting my float plan/itinerary to fit my goal -realizing I'm not prepared to achieve my float plan/itinerary -my goal is set The above four items are my preparation loop, I'd guess I call it, that I'm stuck in right now. There's only so much I can do in the next 2 weeks to control the outcome. This creates doubts, major doubts. So...I'm excited to get started. Let's see what happens. My goal is set. "Keeping it real with some back-of-the-mind worries, though: big water, fatigue, weather." Good quote from muddyfeet. |
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voyager |
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anthonyp007 |
I'm hoping maybe next fall I can join in, but I've got young, school age kids (one has a 9/7 birthday) which makes it tough to skip town for 10 days. May the wind be at your stern and the sun shine upon you every paddle stroke of the journey. Good luck! |
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Shartbait |
I can't adjust my schedule to allow me to participate this year. I'm really going to miss the camaraderie and miss seeing Beav, Mzee, and WhiteWolf again - such good people. I'm adding a picture that I feel captures the essence of what we all love to do. Grandma L - thank you for the offer to share the ride to Ely. PaddlinJoe - first, you need to get your bear repellant in a squeeze bottle. Spray is too hard to control and sometimes gets in your eyes. Apply just like sunscreen. I recommend getting the Bear-B-Gone brand because it contains aloe. ShartBait |
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Shartbait |
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Grandma L |
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paddlinjoe |
LOL - Thanks for the advice Shartbait. What is your preferred application method, a little bit under the arms, or do you go for the full body coverage? |
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Shartbait |
quote BeaV: I am pondering the Moose Lake route. I shouldn't be but I am. I've got some sticky logistics to work out in order to even make participation possible. The probability is low but I'll keep you and this board informed. A bit of advice to everyone - don't forget your bear spray. I put it on every morning last year and never even saw a bear, so it really works. |
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paddlinjoe |
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muddyfeet |
Maybe others don't have this problem, but I feel like I should share: Unfortunately (or, fortunately I guess) I discovered that my butt would get really sore after sitting and paddling all day (9+hrs) and I have been looking for a solution. Tried all sorts of foam pads and even kneeling without much success. The breakthrough came when I accidentally sat on my map case that had a small amount of air in it. Bingo. I ordered a Thermarest Lite Seat and have since been sitting pretty. Inflate it as much or as little as you wish for the perfect level of comfort. Deflate all the way in rough water for a firm balance, Inflate halfway for all-day paddling, or inflate fully for an instant 1.5" rise to the seat height. I was vacationing with the family last week and managed some early morning solo time to put in 66miles over 3 days on the whitefish chain in central Mn. The seat worked asstoundingly well. |
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voyager |
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Grandma L |
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BeaV |
quote Shartbait: "Hi Beav! Hi Shartbait! Good to hear you're still around. I sent you an email back in March but no reply- thought maybe the pirates gotcha. The numbers based on my latest intel: International Falls- BeaV(1), Muddyfeet(1), and Mzee(1) Crane Lake- Whitewolf & VaderStrom(2), paddlinjoe(1), and voyager & wife(2) Moose Lake- (0) I think there are some still pondering the Challenge. Are you pondering an entry from Moose Lake? |
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housty9 |
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GreyOwl |
quote muddyfeet: "Challengers: A tip from the rear admiral: " A second resource for the same solution: REI Sit Pad While I haven't used this while paddling it has been a life saver (butt saver actually) when I have to attend conferences that require sitting on metal folding chairs for endless hours for a week. It's 30% cheaper too. Deflated and rolled up its about 2" in diameter and 5" long. |
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JimmyJustice |
You identified one of those pesky things that can morph into a complete annoyance. Your hack is interesting! On those long paddle days, to alleviate the "sore butt dilemma" I would readjust how my legs were postured in hopes of finding that one spot where I could stretch out and still be an effective paddler. I never found that spot. I didn't pay much attention to how often I "shifted" but I am sure it was often. |
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BeaV |
quote mirth: "This would be fun to do. Hopefully it still exists in another year or two & I can find the time to participate." Next year is pretty much a for sure for these routes again. Lots of talk from folks already looking at doing it next year. |
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BeaV |
quote paddlinjoe: "Thanks Beav! ... there is a lot I can do to become more efficient. " You're welcome. The biggest "thing" to try to learn is the idea of getting body rotation so that you can get those bigger torso muscles involved. It won't feel "right" at first so give it some time. |
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BeaV |
quote hut301: "This looks great. I am a newbie on this site and am really inspired to keep coming back and being a contributing member." Welcome to the site- this place contains a canoe-load of information and congrats on your fast traverse of the border route across the BWCA. Condition of the Grand Portage- Ya the portage really has taken a turn for the worse from all of last year's rains. It used to be a fairly easy walking path but with the steady rains of last year, all the users of the path kept making the mud holes bigger and wider. The downed trees you came across are mostly a new obstacle but will likely be cleared by the time the Voyageurs Challengers come through. |
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hut301 |
My 15-year-old son and I just finished the the Voyageur Highway from Crane to Lake Superior in my MN II. We did it in 9 days but I can see easily how it could be done in 8 as we started at 2 PM the first day. We weren't stopped by big winds or days of t-storms. We did have a tree crush our tent one evening but with a little bending back of the poles and patching a few holes to the rainfly my new REI Quarterdome 2 was back in action. Going West to East is great. Tips - Basswood Falls - Take the mile portage versus the little portages - link http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=maps.portage_info&entityid=850&elat=48.1083341386&elon=-91.658916672 - Granite River a couple of the portages are on the opposite side of the river versus what the map says - Try to time it to spend the night at Gunflint Lodge $18.50 for a bunk or at least a nice meal. Great place to patronize for good canoe talk, maps, gear. This place has done a lot to keep the BWCA how it is. Probably not good from a permit standpoint but by going thru Gunflint Lake we already left the BWCA... - Last night camp on South Fowl so you have a day to do Pigeon River and Grand Portage - I don't think the English Portage exist anymore. We had high water so we were able to easily canoe it. We saw 5 moose on the Pigeon River. Spend some time at Partridge Falls. It is amazing. We counted 66 trees down on the Grand Portage - many waist height. Very muddy and buggy (hopefully better for you in Sept). This portage was much harder than I thought. It took us 5 hours. |
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housty9 |
I've been starting to do more hiking and paddling getting ready for this, need to get are team together soon and make a game plan, kinda fun having something to work for, can't wait to start. |
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Grandma L |
I will be eager to see what Beav says. |
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BeaV |
quote wrestlencanoe: "Question for BeaV, WhiteWolf, Jimmy, or anyone who has done this route in the past, Once you reach Lake Superior how did you get to the Marine campground for the night? Get a ride from someone? Paddle along the shoreline of the great lake? Use the road and portage? I plan on doing it in June and wondering what my options are. " I have always been able to paddle down to the Marina and take out on the boat ramp. But if the big lake won't let you, it's not that far to portage along the road. Of course, you'd want to rest a bit at the fort before doing MORE portaging. |
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wrestlencanoe |
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paddlinjoe |
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muddyfeet |
Edit: what BeaV said 4minutes ago. |
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voyager |
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BeaV |
For people still pondering the idea of doing this and for those who maybe seeing this for the first time, I would like to know by August 1st if you will be joining us. This will allow me time to setup shuttles. There may still be a chance to join us on the shuttle after August 1st but only if we happen to have capacity left in the van(s). I see that Entry 12 permits for September 2nd are all gone. This means if you want to enter the BWCA by Crane Lake that day, you will need to find a group to join. Otherwise, you could start before or after that date (you may have to make your own shuttle arrangements). Or start at Moose Lake with plenty of permits still available. If you're thinking about other dates, throw it out here as others maybe thinking the same. Piragis charges $200 for a shuttle to Crane Lake, FYI. |
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muddyfeet |
Coming off of XC ski season, April and May training has involved more and more paddling, but usually 8-10 miles at a time. I needed some long distance confidence, so yesterday I took a full pack and paddled 41 miles on the Mississippi, with additional 1000 rods of portage. It was an 11.5hr day. Out and back mix of 10mi upstream, 10mi downstream, and 20mi flatwater. Notes: - Inreach was on 5min tracking, and measured 2 miles less than my phone, which was on 20sec tracking. Probably because the 5minute track isn't as smooth and cuts some corners and turnarounds. Phone was set to auto-pause when I stopped, which means I spent total about an hour stationary at landings (stretching, peeing, refilling water, loading/unloading portage). -I ate a 600cal breakfast and then consumed about 180cal/hr while moving. I was comfortable with this. Little 'snacks' every hour worked well. I went through about 6liters of water. -I couldn't paddle more than 6-8 miles without getting up to walk/stretch. And my butt was really sore towards the end. Will have to work on this. -I could stand to do something to raise my yoke pads for more clearance over a full pack. -I almost wasn't able to get out of bed this morning- and I can hardly imagine trying to do that everyday for a week. Ibuprofen might be essential. |
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BeaV |
quote WhiteWolf: "quote paddlinjoe: "Looking forward to paddling/portaging to exhaustion and either finishing or failing. :-) Welcome to the Challenge, paddlinjoe. And just to elaborate a little on WhiteWolf's correct answer, with a clarification. You are right that we leave the BWCA proper at Magnetic Lake only to enter again at the portage to South Lake. The answer I received from the USFS was "no you don't need a new Entry Permit if you continue direct to the new Entry Point". The key point is to continue directly without spending the night outside the BW or going to one of the outfitters on Gunflint Lake for whatever purpose. Sounds reasonable enough to me and that is what I go by. |
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paddlinjoe |
Please add me to the list of participants. At this time I am planning to go solo and have reserved a permit for Crane Lake EP 12. There is an outside chance my fall canoeing partner will join me, but from a shuttle planning perspective this will be a one canoe group. Looking forward to paddling/portaging to exhaustion and either finishing or failing. :-) One (or rather my first) logistics question. Is a second permit required at Gunflint EP 58 to make the jump across to a new section of the BWCA? Joe |
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Grandma L |
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WhiteWolf |
quote paddlinjoe: "Thanks to Beav for organizing and inspiring others to do the trip. I would love to go and can't believe how my level of trip anticipation has jumped with the added time and distance component of the challenge. No it is not. |
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housty9 |
quote Grandma L: "Better get permits soon. Only 2 left for #12-Crane on September 2"Already done for extreme team. |
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VaderStrom |
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JimmyJustice |
quote housty9: "quote MagicPaddler: "How will the start at 3 points work? Will every one start at the same time (Sept 2 @ 12:01 AM) or staggered starts."I think we all start about the same time, but not quite sure." Yes, that is correct. Those who put in at Crane Lake do so at the same time. I suspect those putting in at the other two spots will be on their honor to do the same. Last year we put in on Crane at 9:30 am. It is an orderly ordeal, so no mad rush to the water! BeaV will let us know what the start times are this year as the challenge draws nearer. JJ |
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housty9 |
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MagicPaddler |
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BeaV |
quote MagicPaddler: "How will the start at 3 points work? Will every one start at the same time (Sept 2 @ 12:01 AM) or staggered starts." Start times for Crane Lake and International Falls locations are based on shuttle schedules from Ely. Start time for Moose Lake is easier to select without the shuttle schedule getting in the way and if I were starting there, I'd want to take advantage of daylight. So here's the estimated group start times for September 2nd- Ely @ Moose Lake- Start @ 7:00 am Crane Lake- Start @ 9:30 am International Falls- Start @ noon Each individual's or team's starting time, though, will be their actual launch time. Solo/teams using a Spot or InReach device will hit their "OK" button to document their start. But again, if someone wants to launch on their own earlier or later than those dates/times, that's fine too. More important is the finish date and time which is the scheduled shuttle time leaving Grand Portage Casino of 11:00 am September 10th. That leaves 8 days plus or minus to complete your Challenge. Is it cruel that the further away you start the less time you have to finish? Yes, yes it is. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote housty9: "The permit needed is 12 not 12a right. I want to start at Crane but want to get the right permit, I'll paddle solo unless some others are interested, like to keep group to 4, 2 or 1." I'd rather do a tandem and start at Crane -- then solo and start at Rainy. Count me in with you Housty9. |
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housty9 |
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BeaV |
quote housty9: "The permit needed is 12 not 12a right. I want to start at Crane but want to get the right permit, I'll paddle solo unless some others are interested, like to keep group to 4, 2 or 1." Yup, Entry Permit 12 is the correct choice. 12a is only for boats staying on Lac La Croix. Welcome to the Challenge! |
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housty9 |
quote BeaV: "Were starting the 2nd of September right, I'm going to reserve a permit for then tonight when I get home from work.quote housty9: "The permit needed is 12 not 12a right. I want to start at Crane but want to get the right permit, I'll paddle solo unless some others are interested, like to keep group to 4, 2 or 1." |
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housty9 |
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BeaV |
quote housty9: "? Where are you picking your permit up at when entering at crane." I will be pulling my permit at Piragis when they open on September 2nd. My shuttle heading to International Falls will leave Ely right after that. At this point, I'm not sure if my shuttle will head direct to International Falls or if we'll head to Crane Lake first to drop off those paddlers. It will depend on how many people do this and their time frames for starting. If more shuttling help is needed, Piragis would be the preferred outfitter to work with, I guess, since they have worked with us in the past. Based on the interest so far, there's a good chance we'll need a Piragis shuttle and since I'm pulling my permit there, it's where I will rent anything I need. Housty9- assuming you want to shuttle to Crane Lake on 9/2, that is the date you will want to select for your Entry Permit. EP 12 is only a few miles from your starting point. |
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housty9 |
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housty9 |
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Sjlubner |
quote muddyfeet: "quote Sjlubner: "Very tempting..." Thanks 'muddyfeet'! It was certainly a great trip. I really enjoyed doing it later in the season and seeing less people while paddling. I would highly recommend the route even if one only paddles a portion of it. Let me know if you have any questions about my trip as my report wasn't the most detailed. |
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Grandma L |
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Grandma L |
quote muddyfeet: "While you can pay to have a canoe or kayak pulled over the rails, it is much more practical and faster and free to carry the boat yourself: yes this is allowed. Awesome that you're thinking about it already...." Hey Muddy, good to see you on the board this morning. I have been working on "re-entry" projects this morning (cleaning the car, laundry etc.) and was thinking of you guys! Some how checking my computer and phone is not the same with out the "pings" from the guys! Glad I found this post - I have been checking the other Challenge site. |
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anthonyp007 |
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muddyfeet |
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BeaV |
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housty9 |
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JimmyJustice |
quote housty9: "Is this pretty much and all out race, or do you get to smell a few roses?" IMO, there is a beginning and an end to this challenge. It is up to you/your team to decide how to spend the time in the middle. Each team's "approach" will be different. And, might I add, an important discussion to have prior to starting. For some it will be the challenge itself; to try, to start, to attempt something new. For others it will be the challenge of finishing or the challenge to finishing by the cut off time and for some the challenge of finishing first. That said, there is time to stop and smell the roses. JJ |
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BeaV |
quote housty9: "Is this pretty much and all out race, or do you get to smell a few roses?" JJ pretty much nailed it. Just to finish has been an accomplishment the prior two years. Both of these years, teams started from Crane Lake and had up to 8 days to finish. Here are the results: 2015 One team of 3 finished in 6 days 7 hours. A second team of 3 made it half way down the Grand Portage and had they not been tempted with a ride to the Casino for a hot dinner and comfort, would have finished in about 7 days 4 hours. The last team, a solo, made it to Prairie Portage and pulled out at Moose Lake due to canoe issues. 2016 One team of 3 finished in 5 days 7 hours. One team of 4 finished in 7 days 11 hours minus 1 member who opted out for health reasons. Two solo teams made it 1/3 of the way down the Grand Portage and were on track to finish in about 8 days 3 hours but pulled out due to near physical exhaustion. |
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JimmyJustice |
quote BeaV: "quote muddyfeet: "I'm in." The "during" picture provides some insight to the "after" picture that BeaV posted. |
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BeaV |
quote MattM: "Man! If this wasn't scheduled for the first week of school (I'm a high school teacher), I'd sign up to attempt this in a heartbeat. " FIELD TRIP!!!!! Bring the kids. Let me help you out- What subject do you teach? History- Wow this route is steep in history Geology- Wow this route is rich in rock formations Geography- Wow you'll see much country Physical Education- Wow talk about getting in shape Literature- Wow the stories that could be written I think most subjects could be enhanced with a field trip like this. Seems like if the band class gets to travel to Europe or somewhere then..... Sorry if I'm not helping. |
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JimmyJustice |
French: Wow - you get to talk like a Voyageur |
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muddyfeet |
quote JimmyJustice: "The "during" picture provides some insight to the "after" picture that BeaV posted. You guys are animals. Anyone with a refined palate knows that socks taste best after a pan sear. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote muddyfeet: "quote JimmyJustice: "The "during" picture provides some insight to the "after" picture that BeaV posted. Yeah--- dont know for sure ,, but especially if that pic was taken after I burned the same shorts I had been wearing the whole trip..... specifically -- these shorts. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote housty9: "quote WhiteWolf: "I plan on doing one of the two longer legs. Still do not know if I will be solo,tandem or even (less likely) triple. I will have an In-Reach also. At this time,, I have one interested person along with one less interested person,, if your up for a great adventure , with even better people , respond below or email. Don't be just a dreamer, be a doer!!If The Freak of nature can or can't make this, I'd be interested in joining your team, I have a kevlar tandem." Mark- I will email you later tonight or early AM with what I'am currently thinking... |
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MattM |
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housty9 |
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housty9 |
quote WhiteWolf: "I plan on doing one of the two longer legs. Still do not know if I will be solo,tandem or even (less likely) triple. I will have an In-Reach also. At this time,, I have one interested person along with one less interested person,, if your up for a great adventure , with even better people , respond below or email. Don't be just a dreamer, be a doer!!If The Freak of nature can or can't make this, I'd be interested in joining your team, I have a kevlar tandem. |
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MattM |
Please let me know if you ever plan this in early June or late August. I hope everyone who signs up for this has a fantastic experience! |
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WhiteWolf |
quote VaderStrom: "WhiteWolf, any interest in adding a solo to whatever group you get together? Otherwise I could join a tandem, but mine is way too slow to cover that much ground. I can operate solo and single portage, so I shouldn't be much of a burden. " Email sent. |
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muddyfeet |
Solo. Thirsty for that beer already. I'm okay with- and will be prepared for- the real possibility of failure, too. It is a challenge, after all. |
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BeaV |
quote pswith5: " i might be curious where your route takes you 3 dams before the finish." I think I know what you meant, but I will answer the question the way it is written. Well...3 "dams" before the finish will likely occur really close to the location of the Grand Portage fort. The frequency of "dams" usually start to increase the further down the Grand Portage a person is. Statements such as "Damn, I'm tired", "Damn, this muddy trail", and "Damn, this boat is getting heavy" are typical. Grandma L's position should work just fine;) |
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BeaV |
quote muddyfeet: "I'm in." You should fit right in based on your screen name. |
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VaderStrom |
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voyager |
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Grandma L |
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JimmyJustice |
quote Grandma L: "Packing the car - trailer ready, computer updated, heading out for Grand Portage in the morning. Mzee, meet you there. see you all in Ely! Computer you say?? Yup, I get to watch them work! No paddling for this old gal!" GL Can you keep us sloths updated as to the progress of the challengers? Jim |
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TomT |
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BeaV |
quote muddyfeet: "Finalized my menu and have commenced packaging. I gotta say I haven't planned anything quite like this before so some of it is a guess: It is a cross of my nutrition knowledge between recreational trips and 4-8 hr endurance sports. That sounds about right. Here's an interesting article written by Chief of WaterTribe- fueling the fire Enter your age at the top to have the article customized to you. I don't think you will burn through your body fats reserves in less than 8 days. Carbs and some protein when you're on the move. More fatty stuff when you stop and make camp. I like peanut based trail mix when on the move but that would go against the fat concept. It works for me. I save the Spam singles for rest periods though. |
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muddyfeet |
I am about 175lbs. Planned avg 4100 calories/day for a total around 33,000 calories. Breaks down to 54% carbs, 33% fats, 13% protein. Breakfast meal, Dinner meal, and small snacks rationed all day long. 17 lbs of food: about 120 calories/oz. ...perhaps someone with more experience planning multiday nutrition needs can chime in with what they think and any tips. Weight loss over 8 days isn't going to be huge deal, but I want to take in enough calories that I don't breakdown muscle tissue- It would make the final days that much more difficult. |
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Grandma L |
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BeaV |
The Essence- what is the essence of what we do? Mzee stated it well in his above 05/10/2017 posting. |
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paddlinjoe |
Is it too soon to ask for a weather prediction for the route? :-) |
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JimmyJustice |
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IceColdGold |
My focus right now is what the first video is discussing. Get the blade all the way in the water at the start of my stroke. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote BeaV: "Two months to go before we start our Challenge and hopefully everyone is preparing for it by getting in some paddling and portaging. I think the biggest factor for successfully making it in time to the end is how well you can paddle. Another words, how efficient you move the canoe along. Most of us were never taught how to paddle, we just started paddling and how we did it worked good enough to get us in to the BWCA and base camp and fish. But if we need to do 30, 40, or 50 miles per day for multiple days, being efficient is worth looking at. That is a great piece on efficient paddling!!! Before I got into long distance paddling (and knowing BeaV) I thought I knew it all. Turns out, no clue. When you first exert force by propelling your paddle through the water,, you are making the most force forward in the entire stroke. Once the water (that your paddle is moving) starts to move your stroke becomes less efficient -- that is because the hydro dynamics (water moving) is causing your stroke to become less efficient the longer it lasts as moving water (caused by your stroke) is not as powerful as still water. Cavitation of water. Short- quick- strokes that grab more "static" water are much more efficient than long strokes that have moving water involved. A swimmer that uses an "S" stroke in the freestyle (trying to grab water "unmoved") is going to be more efficient then one that just pushes water in one "straight" motion. Grabbing water that is not all ready moved is key. Long sweeping strokes might seem fine for the most,, but short (powerful) strokes are better in the long haul-- especially if your in the bow. Moving still water gives the most force, the more a paddler can do that,, the more efficient they will be. IT IS NOT EASY on long hauls but makes all the difference. I'am still trying too learn using my abdomen as core rather then my arms/shoulders. All in all, in long distance , even the small things matter more then you think-- the more miles, the more it matters. |
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BeaV |
quote Grandma L: "What will be the entry point for the International Falls participants of the Challenge? I'm thinking we'll launch from what looks like a public boat access located 2.5 miles east from the Rainy River off of highway 11. |
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BeaV |
quote paddlinjoe: "Regarding the route. ..... Would I be in violation of the spirit of the challenge if I did that?" You would be fine to take those minor variances from the border that you mentioned. I have done some of those in the past. I gotta believe that the Voyageurs of old took the quickest route around Coleman Island and some other multi-option routes, so we too can make that call when we get there. Time of day and wind direction may affect the way we go. |
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BeaV |
quote voyager: " I'm just kind of thinking about doing this. Probably from Moose L. That would make for a little more leisurely trip. I realize shuttle costs will be dependent on participation but what other fees are there? I see last year when watertribe organized it there was a $195.00 fee. " Hi voyager, it's kinda fun to ponder a trip like this, eh? For this year, there are no other fees, just a group of paddlers doing an expedited trip. Of course you'll have all the normal costs of doing a BWCA trip such as an EP 25 entry fee and food and lodging before and after the Challenge. The camping permit is free at Fort Charlotte. Sounds like you won't need to rent equipment. Assuming you park at the public access on Moose Lake, your only shuttle needs would be at the end to get back to Ely area. Regarding Spot/InReach/PLB- Like I stated in the OP, not required but a good idea. I'm a firm believer in "Spot or InReach is for folks at home and a PLB is for your safety". I won't get into that here (there's plenty of good discussions regarding this on this site). I will say that the tracking feature is fun for people watching us travel, helps family at home feel good(as long as you're moving or sending messages), and is helpful for people waiting for you to arrive at Grand Portage. A PLB is my choice in case of a life-threatening emergency. |
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Mzee |
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Frenchy19 |
Like MattM, I am also a teacher, and this being the first week of school makes it impossible for me. I would love to do the Moose route as a solo; pretty sure the other two would kill me! Very much looking forward to tracking this thread and others as this becomes a reality. Thanks for organizing this, BeaV! |
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voyager |
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