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nooneuno
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So long as the forest service doesn't move the lakes any map you have should be ok. Just sayin......
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eagle98mn
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So I started BWCA tripping in 2013 and now that I have some trips under my belt I also have a growing selection of McKenzie maps. I'm wondering if the maps I have been purchasing go out-of-date with any degree of regularity? I realize that campsites may close due to fire damage, etc. But does the forest service close campsites for other reasons over time such as overuse, abuse (sad to consider), a full latrine (I'm not really sure I want to know what happens when after I walk away!), etc? Do new sites open? Is there an official website or database I should be watching to stay up to date on any potential changes as the years go by and my maps get older? I'm curious how this has worked out for those of you who've been doing this for quite a while.
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Grandma L
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I love my old maps - some of the Mckenzie maps have hiking information too. they don't seem to go out of date. Sites are rarely closed. Latrines are re-dug on the same site - just relocated.
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MagicPaddler
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I don’t think the maps are ever updated. Many have incorrect portages and campsites. The best source for correct data is paddleP
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cyclones30
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Maps do get updated, but most of the content doesn't change.
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bmaines
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Mackenzie does indeed update their maps occasionally. I'm heading into Insula for a short fishing trip this year with some new guys. I picked up maps 18 and 19 for the new guys, and all of the campsites along the southern edges of Insula and the numbered lakes that are closed due to the fire have a small X over the red dot.
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Jaywalker
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I like my old maps too. Some have the red dots showing campsites fading away. Im not aware of any new campsites in the past 20 years, and think they only get closed due to fire. There are a few cases of campsites being marked in the wrong spot, but I doubt the map companies have updated any of them.
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murphylakejim
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cyclones30: "Maps do get updated, but most of the content doesn't change. "
Oh I see. Like an iPhone
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eagle98mn
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Thanks for the responses! I'm glad to hear my maps will likely be accurate for a long time. Magic, I love PaddleP too and have found it an excellent resource for "getting to know" the wilderness.
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cowdoc
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sometimes when you pick up your permit at a ranger station, they give you a small handout/map that shows closed campsites (due to fire or storm damage). I just mark my maps using these.
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nofish
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Keep the same maps and bring a pen to make notes as you travel. You're sure to find a portage or campsite thats not exactly in the right spot so its nice to be able to mark up the map with correct locations for future reference. I also make notes about various things I want to remember for future trips (fishing spots, good or bad campsites, notes on portages, raspberry/blueberry locations, etc).
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OldFingers57
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MagicPaddler: "I don’t think the maps are ever updated. Many have incorrect portages and campsites. The best source for correct data is paddleP"
Even they have a bunch of mistakes on portages and especially campsites. We were up in Quetico on Quetico, Conk and Jean lakes last year. We like to check out different campsites while traveling. Looked for ones that PP had on their site and couldn’t find them or any sign of a site while paddling along the shore.
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Michwall2
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I know of at least 2 campsites that have been closed due to ? (overuse, damage, etc.).
I have maps that show a third campsite on west shore of Hazel Lake (just east of Lake Polly). There is an opening there but it is all grass now. I think there is also one on the west shore of Cherokee Lake that has been decommissioned as well.
Remember, that no matter what the maps say, if there is no fire grate and latrine it is not an official campsite.
Those latrines have become somewhat harder to find over the years. There are often several pathways leading back into the forest from some campsites (Especially the more popular ones).
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RMinMN
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sedges: "The USFS maintains a database of campsite condition. The wilderness crews that do portage maintenance are often stopping at campsites to assess condition. The also move latrines when necessary. Campsites are sometimes closed if overused and reopened when vegetation cover restores. Latrines are pulled if a site is closed. The fire grates are more difficult to remove and usually stay. The District Office where permits are picked up used to have maps on the wall with closed campsites indicated. I don't know if they still do that. There are very few if any new campsites being created."
I know of one ex campsite that had a fire grate and a latrine but the latrine was one of the old wooden boxes and it simply had just rotted away. Does that mean that the campsite is closed? It still had the fire grate and latrine but the latrine was no longer usable.
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cowdoc
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RMinMN: "sedges: "The USFS maintains a database of campsite condition. The wilderness crews that do portage maintenance are often stopping at campsites to assess condition. The also move latrines when necessary. Campsites are sometimes closed if overused and reopened when vegetation cover restores. Latrines are pulled if a site is closed. The fire grates are more difficult to remove and usually stay. The District Office where permits are picked up used to have maps on the wall with closed campsites indicated. I don't know if they still do that. There are very few if any new campsites being created."
I know of one ex campsite that had a fire grate and a latrine but the latrine was one of the old wooden boxes and it simply had just rotted away. Does that mean that the campsite is closed? It still had the fire grate and latrine but the latrine was no longer usable."
The only sites I've seen like that are in PMA's and I would believe that the PMA designation would deem them not a true campsite (ie...closed). But, if you had a PMA permit, then you could stay there under the PMA guidelines. Where was the site?
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schweady
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sedges: "The USFS maintains a database of campsite condition..."
If this is public info, I would love to have a link. or contact info for the database manager. My guess is that this info is every bit as elusive as the annual numbers for daily permit quotas filled at each EP.
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Tman
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The maps are generally accurate over the years.
However, things do change and you need to be adaptable. Our groups have found on current maps both campsites that are closed/no longer exist and also campsites (with fire grate & latrine) that are not on the maps. Rare, but it does happen.
Two great happy accidents in our groups:
In 2012 with a Scout group one of our other crews was set to exit Snowbank on Friday. On Thursday they paddled toward Snowbank from Thomas (I think) to be close to exit the next day. Once they got past Ima every campsite they came across was occupied. They got to Parent and were really stressed out. It was getting late and the wind was up so they didn't want to go into Snowbank. Backtracking wasn't a likely option either. They decided to stash the canoes on shore and hike up to the backpacking trail to camp in a backpacking site. They pulled up to shore on the southeast side of Parent and, what do you know, it was an unmarked campsite! They still tell the story of being "saved" to this day.
In 2016 I was with another group of Scouts and had targeted Angleworm for our destinations for the day. Turned out every campsite was occupied. There was one shown on the east shore on our (2016) map but it had been "closed". You could see where it had been but there was no fire grate, etc. We ended up stashing the canoes and hiking the Angleworm trail up to the campsite on Whisky Jack Lake. It was a spectacular night with great sunset views, etc. Everyone counted it as a highlight of our trip.
Be flexible and have fun!
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Jaywalker
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murphylakejim: "cyclones30: "Maps do get updated, but most of the content doesn't change. "
Oh I see. Like an iPhone"
Not exactly. McKenzie does not intentionally slow down the functionality of your old maps if you do not upgrade.
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eagle98mn
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Lots of good thoughts and tips. Thanks again everyone! I don't mind bumping into the occasional inaccuracy and having to figure it out. It's just nice to know things won't change all that quickly.
Now, I'm off to fiddle with my ever-slower iPhone 6 ;)
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Fearlessleader
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A few years ago at least 2 new campsites were added on Lake One. We were interested because this was the area we first padded 40 some years ago. We checked a new map and sure enough, they were shown.
Nevertheless, you’d have a hard time finding changes on most maps, even after many years.
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sedges
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The USFS maintains a database of campsite condition. The wilderness crews that do portage maintenance are often stopping at campsites to assess condition. The also move latrines when necessary. Campsites are sometimes closed if overused and reopened when vegetation cover restores. Latrines are pulled if a site is closed. The fire grates are more difficult to remove and usually stay. The District Office where permits are picked up used to have maps on the wall with closed campsites indicated. I don't know if they still do that. There are very few if any new campsites being created.
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