We have a crew going to Philmont this August. A 7-day trek. I would enjoy hearing about your experiences there. The do's, the dont's, horror stories or the best tails ever. In particular, I would enjoy any tips on making the experience more enjoyable, administratively easier and what NOT to bring.

Much appreciated.
JJ

I did the 12 day - 10 days on trail - in 2013. Wonderful! I dont know what i would have not taken but take less. Good rain gear, though that may taper off in August. Good footwear - i went old school with Zamberlan and my feet were the only thing that never hurt. And the Scouts loved the activities. Make as much time for them as possible.

I have been down to Philmont twice, in the 1980's. Awesome experience, great facilities, I would try and follow their recommendations for trip planning as best as you can. Also, see if there is a Philmont Advisors course near you this spring. Philmont Advisor Workshop

CrookedPaddler1: "I have been down to Philmont twice, in the 1980's. Awesome experience, great facilities, I would try and follow their recommendations for trip planning as best as you can. Also, see if there is a Philmont Advisors course near you this spring. Philmont Advisor Workshop "

CP1

I did take the course when they offered in St. Paul late last year. Very helpful. They definitely have their own way of doing things...pitching tents, hanging tarps etc. It takes some energy not to ignore them and do it "my way". I presume their way is (for this trip) the best way.

Ive done two treks recently. Couple of suggestions off the top of my head:

* We have monthly training sessions starting in Jan or Feb. We work on skills, and team building. Especially work on orienting a map - the ranger will make the Scouts do this before they hit the trail.

* Put a lot of stress on lowering pack weight. Depending on the size of the crew, you will add 15-20lbs of crew gear, food and water to whatever you bring for personal gear.

* As an advisor, the best $10 I spent prepping was the Baltimore Area Council - Philmont Advisors Guide (http://www.bacphilmont.org/pag.html)

* When you get to base camp - stay flexible and go with the flow. The ranger has a process for getting through everything. Fighting him/her wont get you anywhere. The process includes 24hrs in base camp to help acclimate so you wont get to the trailhead much before 24hrs regardless.

* When it comes time to choose an itinerary - help the Scouts make their choice. When I have some "tough guys" that want to really crank out the miles, I remind them that Philmont is about Scouting history and program activities. They can hike in the mountains someplace else for a whole lot less money.

* When you get to base camp - stay flexible and go with the flow. The ranger has a process for getting through everything. Fighting him/her wont get you anywhere. The process includes 24hrs in base camp to help acclimate so you wont get to the trailhead much before 24hrs regardless.

Good advice Windchill...I will try to remember that... :)

Already some excellent suggestions. I'll add some more.


* First, on trek selection.
a) Mileage means little. Their level ratings mean more. A 75 mile trek that is Rugged and a 75 mile trek that is Super Strenuous are very different. We did a SS and spent our days ridge hopping and doing Baldy without a down day (we hiked full packs over baldy ridgeline).
b) The country is beautiful, but emphasize programming. Philmont is all about the programming, you can hike miles anywhere.

* We used Philmont tents so as not to put the wear on ours or have to transport ours. The new Philmont tents are nice and not too heavy, but are a head/foot entry door. They are not a right/left entry door. It's wasn't a big deal, but might matter to some.

* A 7 day trek is more doable for younger people. We found that the adults didn't start feeling comfortable physically on the Trek until day 4 or 5....and a 7 day Trek is about over by then.

* Do what you can to acclimate. I am assuming that you chose a 7 day trek to limit the adult time off from work? Altitude acclimation is critical. The more time that you can spend at 6,000'+ before your trek starts the better. Nearly every crew that I know that flew out and started their trek the next day, had a Scout go off trail with altitude sickness. One Crew even had to send one home. Be familiar with the signs so you can recognize it....headaches, nausea, etc. Philmont is good with dealing with this but be aware of it. We did acclimation, but for 3 days counting our Philmont arrival and still have one have to go off trail for 3 days (We never went under 9,300 feet for three days when it happened).

* Get the boys used to getting up early and hitting the trail early. It makes a difference when you are getting into a camp for activities early or late.

Have fun...It was a blast and I hope to go back again!

rdricker:
* Get the boys used to getting up early and hitting the trail early. It makes a difference when you are getting into a camp for activities early or late.
"

That's a really good one. If you take your time getting out of camp in the morning you'll miss programs.

Also - on programs. You can often do program at "pass through" camps. Once you get your itinerary, check the map to see what camps you'll pass through each day, and see what programs those camps offer.

I went in 2016 and am planning on going again in 2019. Start training now... walk for distance & duration with a daypack for now, adding weight later. Whatever cardiovascular exercise you can get in now will only be of benefit to you then.

If you're taking the amtrak, I have two suggestions specific to that method of transportation -
1) Arrive to the area 1 day prior to your Philmont arrival date. Plan some other activity for this day and then arrange private shuttle to Philmont. We ran into a Venturing crew on our same train, their trek started the day after us & they were planning on going whitewater rafting the day before they were slated to arrive @ PSR. At the time I thought they were just doing an extra little tour but afterwards their reasoning was crystal clear, based on my crew's experience - By the time the Amtrak arrives in Raton, the bus gets you, takes you to fast food for lunch, then gets you to PSR, you're left with precious few hours in the afternoon to get all your outfitting things done before everything closes at 5PM. Our crew was supposed to be on one of the first buses out the next day to the turnaround, and we missed it because we weren't ready to go. Ultimately we were put on the last bus out for the day and arrived at the turnaround in the middle of a thunderstorm and spent the next hour in lightning position. It was nightfall when we made our first camp. Had we been at base camp earlier in the day we wouldn't have encountered the time crunch, and therefore would have made our initially planned shuttle to the backcountry.
2) There's a guy that will cater a full t-bone, baked potato, green bean, roll, salad, brownie, and lemonade dinner at the station while you wait for the (typically late) train. It beats foraging around town and keeps your group closer to the station.

Mirth

Thank you for the info. Arriving early seems to be a regular theme. Our crew size/compliment is changing so I agreed to take over as the Lead Advisor for our crew. The gentlemen who was in charge has not yet provided passwords/signed me up for the Camping Gateway so still a bit confused and don't have full access to the Philmont website.

A question nobody, including Philmont, has been able to answer yet (waiting on a reply email from Philmont) is what do the dates mean?

Our trek is from August 11-18. So, what do those dates mean? Are they the dates we are expected to arrive/leave or do they mean those are the first/last days in base camp or are they the dates the trek starts?

Do you know?

Thanks.

JimmyJustice: "Mirth

Thank you for the info. Arriving early seems to be a regular theme. Our crew size/compliment is changing so I agreed to take over as the Lead Advisor for our crew. The gentlemen who was in charge has not yet provided passwords/signed me up for the Camping Gateway so still a bit confused and don't have full access to the Philmont website.

A question nobody, including Philmont, has been able to answer yet (waiting on a reply email from Philmont) is what do the dates mean?

Our trek is from August 11-18. So, what do those dates mean? Are they the dates we are expected to arrive/leave or do they mean those are the first/last days in base camp or are they the dates the trek starts?

Do you know?

Thanks."

August 11 is the day you arrive at base camp. You'll get outfitted, have the opening campfire that night, and head into the backcountry the next day. August 18 looks to be the date you'd depart base camp to return home. Do you know what itinerary your crew is looking to take? Not sure if they've released itineraries for this upcoming season yet, but looking at 2017's is where I based that on.

You may want to take the time now to read the Guidebook to Adventure, which they have updated for 2018. There's good info in there that you should know as being lead advisor for your crew. You can access it here

you can download the current Trek Guide on their website. It usually only changes marginally from year to year. Start reviewing them with the boys and see what things interest them.

Get with whoever registered the Crew...They will most likely be the ones that are getting all the information from Philmont. You can notify Philmont, of the change to you, but no guarantee that something won't miss you.

An Itinerary selection notice should arrive sometime in March of your trek year. Make sure that you log in and get ready. The selection is now first come first serve online. Log in as soon as you can after it opens and make your selections (I think it's top 5 now). You will know immediately after submission which choice you got. Note again, for the last few years it has not been random. The first ones in get their first choice!

Your Crew number will start with a 3 digit number like 811. Translated that means you have a Aug 11 arrival. You will arrive on August 11, check in and outfit. Make sure you are there by noon at the latest that day (earlier is better). Anything you don't complete will have to be done the next day and will delay your departure to the trail. You will spend the first night in a tent at base camp and then depart on a shuttle bus the next day for your trailhead. It sounds like you have a 7 day trek, so you will come off trail on day 7, check in all equipment, and stay the night of day 7 at base camp, departing the morning of Day 8. So you will arrive at Philmont the morning of August 11 and depart the morning of August 18.

Never heard of someone catering a steak dinner at the train station, that sounds interesting. We always eat dinner in the dining car on the return trip. It is a little pricey but better than the snack bar. Mostly we do it for the experience - when else are the kids going to have the opportunity to have a nice (ish) dinner on a train? Heck, most of them dont even know how to leave a gratuity.

My understanding, from multiple sources, is that crews are scheduled to be in base camp approximately 24 hours regardless what time you arrive. We have always arrived on the train (from the east) on our arrival day. We grab lunch at "fast food row" and get to base around 1pm. We always depart for the trail approximately the same time the next day - plenty of time to get everything done.

Before you hit the trail, phone to make a reservation for the villa tour when you return. We have an afternoon train so we schedule it for the morning that we depart. After the villa tour we go to town for lunch - St James hotel has some good lunches. There is a little diner up on the corner, dont recall the name - it is next door to the laundry mat and gas station. They also have good food.

In our experience the 24 hour thing only sometimes works out. There are a lot of stories about how they schedule, including your trek letter meaning when you go out. What I have found is that they seem to schedule for buses leaving for certain areas on an arrival basis. This can mean several hours variance at least. When we were there in 2015, we had two crews that both arrived at about 10:30am. One crew had a 8:30am departure the next morning, the other crew had an 11:30am departure. I've known crews not getting on trail until the afternoon sometime because they didn't plan arriving a day early and their train go delayed until evening. They wound up outfitting the next morning with a very late trail start.

We were supposed to be on the 8:30 bus to Zastrow Turnaround in 2016. Looking back at my pictures, we arrived at base camp right around 1PM local time (yay for cell phones & automatically adjusting for time zones!). For whatever reasons, we could not complete outfitting that afternoon before things closed down and as a result had to reschedule our shuttle.

I've already been vocal to the lead advisor about departing a day early in 2019 & doing a pre-trek activity the day before we're supposed to arrive at base camp.

One other tip that I'll echo is make sure you have good raingear and some kind of warm layer. Later in the summer is monsoon season, where there's bound to be thunderstorms in the vicinity. Our worst night in the backcountry was also about the midpoint of our trek... hard day summitting Big Red, losing the trail, cold rain & graupel while trying to prepare dinner (tip - the Jambalaya shouldn't be prepared "the Philmont way" - it needs to be boiled then simmered), "crunchy dinner," and 38 degree temps. Everyone was cranky, hangry, cold, and tired.

Whenever you're at a staff camp make sure to attend the evening program, even if you're there two nights. My absolute favorite of the trek was the Stomp @ Cypher's Mine.

Also, gear-wise, all you need to bring for personal mess kit is a bowl and long handled spoon. Bring a 1 gallon ziplock to store it in your pack to keep it clean when on the trail. The soft platypus 1L water bottles are good too, since when they're empty they don't take up space like a Nalgene will. Your choice if you want to take the Philmont tents or your own. Me & my trail buddy advisor opted to take a 3 man Eureka and it was nice to have a little elbow room in the tent. The Philmont tents are basically big enough for two pads and a little bit of personal gear. On that subject, you may want to stress to your adults & scouts they should have a set of "sacred clothes" which are only meant to be worn in the tent or changed into just before you hang bags at night. Anything that gets food or bug juice on it will have to be hung until you've had an opportunity to do laundry. We had one Scout puke on his boots, they had to get hung after that.
Crocs make good camp shoes.

Some people like to use ziplocs for all their personal gear. I opted for a compression sack.

Make use of the swap boxes. Your crew will be able to ditch excess & unwanted food and pick through other crews' unwanted food.

For those who took Amtrak, what station did you arrive/depart from ? Raton?

JimmyJustice: "For those who took Amtrak, what station did you arrive/depart from ? Raton?"

Yes.

For the east-bound train - the shuttle leaves welcome center at 2pm as I recall even though the train isn't until 5pm. They will stop at the grocery store so you can get food (PB sandwich fixin's were tasty).

There is nothing at the train station and really nothing to eat within walking distance.

We have always heard that you can call the pizza place in Trinidad (the next stop east of Raton) and they will deliver to the train when it arrives.

The company that caters steak dinners at the train station is Mr C's BBQ out of Raton. Their email is mrcsbbq@gmail.com
You'll be the envy of anybody else waiting for the train, and if they're lucky Mr C's will have leftovers they can buy on the spot. That's what happened when we catered, another small unit was able to get in on the extras he made for our group. They'll also do chicken if you have people that don't eat red meat.

Question regarding water supply and treatment:

Is there any good reason to bring my gravity bag/filter? I personally am not a huge fan of sterilization pills but if that is the Philmont way. Each Trek will have different types of water supplies. Just wondering if it is worth adding the weight of a gravity bag to my pack?

Thanks
JJ

I am very sympathetic but must only remind you that there is a "Philmont Way" and pressure to do it that way while at Philmont. YMMV

JimmyJustice: "Question regarding water supply and treatment:


Is there any good reason to bring my gravity bag/filter? I personally am not a huge fan of sterilization pills but if that is the Philmont way. Each Trek will have different types of water supplies. Just wondering if it is worth adding the weight of a gravity bag to my pack?


Thanks
JJ"

Philmont will say that they require you to use chemical filtration. We took our filters planning to use them, but after using them only a couple times decided that it just took too long when we could just dip and treat. They use the chlorine tablets there. Most didn't mind them at all, but we did have one kid who thought the water smelled like a swimming pool.

Looking back, I'm glad we just went with the tablets. It was easy to just dip and treat when we needed water. Most of the camps have treated water available, although there were a couple of times when we couldn't use it, either because the chemical level was off, or they had to haul it by bucket and it was only for staff. After a couple of days we started carrying enough water for most of the day so that we didn't have to worry about finding water or filling. It meant carrying 3-4 liters per person, but all of the crew deemed it more desirable than stopping to fill. We pretty much evaluated each morning where water would be accessible and carried enough to get to that location.

I was not looking forward to the tablets based on using tablets in a Scouting activity when I was a Scout, 40 years before I went to Philmont, but found the Micropur that Philmont provides tasteless. Just give it the 20-30 minutes in instructions.

Same as others. We took pumps on my first trek - the ranger was okay with us using them. Even though we had switched to a gravity system by my second trek, we chose to leave it at home. The tablets are very convenient and there is almost no taste.

We took my Platypus setup plus another leader's, and it was very nice to have at the various trail camps where we had access to streams. We did not use the tablets, and our ranger didn't seem to care one way or another as long as we were staying hydrated.

Most staff camps will have potable water at them.

What's the latest word for early season trekkers and the Ute Park Fire? I see they have contained some of it since yesterday. It's scrubbed my Pecos Wilderness trip.

They posted on philmontscoutranch.org and the Philmont facebook page that all treks at Philmont are cancelled until July 14.

What a bummer! Let's pray they can keep the fire under control, keep everyone safe, and minimize the impact to Philmont.

I've been watching it. It's up to 36,000 acres today. Finally getting some under containment today with it at 23%...above 0% for the first time. Looks like they have the Eastern side contained, however that is the side mostly up against the plains, and easier to contain. The good news is that the structures at Ponil, Hunting Lodge, Cimerroncito and Clarks Fork survived the fire and base camp is safe. I think Bench, Cyphers Mine, Harlan, Dean Cow, and Sawmill might possibly be damaged....they are in the still burning areas. The really good news is that it is described as minimal fire behavior with backing, creeping and smoldering, so hopefully this means full containment in the near future. This is really sad, I hiked through a section of this area in 2015. Philmont staff has their work cut out for them this summer. A lot of treks travel through this area and once they start bringing crews in, they will probably either have to reroute their treks or schedule a pickup and dropoff, hopping the burn area for a while.

I tried comparing the fire map yesterday against the gps track of our 2016 trek. It seemed to me that Cimmaroncito got burned... Maybe not all the main buildings but the woods back where the camps were as well as the ridge where they do rock climbing. Also impacted seems to be the trail that was our conservation work to the NE of 'Cito.

It seemed like Cypher's was spared, I really hope so. It still holds the fondest memories I have of our trek.

Now, off to get the latest fire map and try to overlay....

Philmont's update from today...

Fire Update: The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,6644 acres and 25% contained. There are currently 598 personnel including 15 crews, 8 helicopters, 29 engines, 5 bulldozers, 9 water tenders on scene.

We can confidently confirm that unfortunately all Dean Cow structures were lost and miraculously, Harlan only lost one outbuilding.

Our primary focus remains the safety of our team and the management of the fire. We appreciate your patience as we work through this rapidly changing situation.

I discovered that the PIO map has most of the backcountry camps on it.

PIO Map

Nice find.

All trips through July 14th have been cancelled. I feel bad for these scouts. Years of planning and prepping. Fund raising, some will age out soon and not get another shot.

Expect them to show up in national forests and national parks is my guess. Maybe even canoe country. It is disappointing but hopefully the adversity and doing something else will be memorable and rewarding.

I wonder if BSA will give these troops first chance for next year?

I know that Summit is getting heavily advertised to groups that have to change plans due to the fire. I read elsewhere that some crews were successful in altering arrivals to later in the season. We had a council contingent headed there soon, and I think some opted to do backpacking in the porkies and elsewhere.

2019 season registration at Philmont started last December. Our troop has two crews going out on 10 day treks end of July. It will be interesting to see the forest a year after.

I had heard that Amtrak is being flexible with groups displaced by the fire, haven't heard how things would shake out for groups flying in or doing pre/post tour activities in the area.

I wondered if Bechtel was in full operation and accommodating some.

From Philmont site today: "The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,740 acres and 66% contained." Sounds like they have turned the corner.

Found out from a friend whose son's trek was impacted by the fire, Philmont is offering them the same arrival date for next year. Thought that was good of them to do that. Sounds like they will be hiking the SHT this year instead of going to NM.

This was a troop contingent and not a council thing.

Our council contingent has been cancelled. Philmont provided several options:

1. Reschedule to later this season
2. Transfer to 2019, but dates are subject to availability and we could not get the same dates.
3. Full refund.

All three other national high adventure bases have been working to transfer/fit in cancelled crews, including Northern Tier. I have also seen promotions from council high adventure bases such as swamp base.

Lots of disappointed Scouts and Scouters but I am very glad there have been no injuries or deaths. Keeping my fingers crossed that the damage hasn't been too severe.

I know a Ranger at Philmont that was sent up to Northern Tier to act as an Interpreter. Philmont send almost 50 of them up there to accommodate additional Treks. I'm actually surprised that BWCA could accommodate them.

rdricker: "I know a Ranger at Philmont that was sent up to Northern Tier to act as an Interpreter. Philmont send almost 50 of them up there to accommodate additional Treks. I'm actually surprised that BWCA could accommodate them."

What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits?

I just looked and can only say there are 43 entry points with permits available today today and 52 on July 5, near last day they could enter before philmont reopens. And only a few baysvwith no moose lake permits in next month and bsa may already have grabbed a lot.

billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits?

Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has.

billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits?

Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has.

billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits?

Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has.

billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits?

Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has.

Good news from Philmont...it's almost 100% contained!

Ute Park Fire Update: June 12, 2018 at 11:00 a.m.
Fire Update: The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,740 acres (26,387 acres on Philmont) and 92% contained. There are currently 244 personnel including 4 crews, 2 helicopters, 8 engines, and 4 water tenders working this fire.

Hard to believe, but if you didn't catch it yesterday Philmont announced cancellation of all backcountry programs for the remainder of the summer.

The "extreme" high fire danger throughout northern New Mexico, the new Morris Creek fire in the south are of Philmont, and closure of public land access surrounding Philmont were the reasons cited.

It is extremely disappointing to the thousands that had treks planned this summer but looks like a sound decision to keep everyone safe.

Here's hoping that 2019 goes off without a hitch. Sucks for everyone who had plans to go this summer, mother nature apparently needs to make some alterations. Hope the Morris fire is contained soon and no others further threaten the area.

Sounds like Northern Tier is picking up a large number of crews that were scheduled for Philmont. They’ll never accommodate them all, nor would that even be feasible for many, but maybe the BW/Q experience through Northern Tier will open some eyes to what a wilderness experience can be like.

Northern Tier and Sea Base are both reporting their schedules are full, or nearly at capacity, for the summer, fall and winter months of 2018. Summit seems to be the go-to now for Philmont replacement treks.

I feel for the scouts who will age out before 2019.

JJ47: I feel for the scouts who will age out before 2019."

Agreed but there are ways to make it work. Register the Scout as an adult. He will have to participate as an adult for YPT purposes (tent separately from youth, etc.) but can otherwise participate as a youth. We have done this in the past for Scouts in our crews and it has worked fine. One year that Scout actually filled the official role of 2nd adult/advisor as one of the adults had to drop out.

Our Troop's trip was cancelled in 2018 and rescheduled for this summer. Needless to say, that trip was cancelled as well. The boys are rescheduled for next July again. Fingers crossed that they will finally get to go then!