Considering basically the same needs does anyone here have any experience with both canoes listed and prefer one over the other?
B'dub tripping. 8-10 days food and gear. 5' 9" - 175 pounds. Middle of the road everything. Maybe some trips on the Missouri Current.
My main interests on the water revolve around fishing. So, a bit of empty initial stability is beneficial to me. When I'm traveling from one fishing spot to another fishing spot I'll be loaded and tripping, where stability is less of an issue.
I've built my own cedar strip solo and have enough experience to learn the nuances of both.
Is one just a better boat?
Or would I be happy in either?
And don't get me wrong - I understand completely about getting in them and trying them. I'm not interested in MY opinion - I'm interested in yours.

Well, Karl, since you're interested in my not very expert or experienced opinion . . .

I have paddled both, BUT . . . it's been quite a few years since I paddled the Wilderness. I've paddled the Northwind Solo the last couple of years. I like the Northwind Solo a lot, but don't fish out of it. It's got a little more initial stability than a Magic, but so does the Wilderness. I'm sure you've compared the specs and know those are similar.

Either one will do what you want; I think you'll like the Northwind better in my opinion. ;)

Sorry, I haven't used a Wilderness so I can't compare. I have rented a Northwind Solo for my last 3 solo trips and I absolutely love it. I trip with a 90lb lab and it's rock solid stable.

Thank you both, very much.
I enjoyed your explanations.
I heard from one friend personally that the NW Solo sat too low for him. He's about my size.
Did either of you find it uncomfortably low?
I'll do some more research this spring at Canoecopia.

Funny you should mention that, Karl . . .

When Steve and I rented a Northwind tandem last fall, Steve remarked on how low the seats were; not sure if that was stock or an outfitter adjustment . . . maybe to increase the feeling of stability for people not used to solos ?

I didn't find the solo uncomfortably low, but would have been happy to have it up an inch or two. I don't use a canoe seat or pad though - just an old hard**s, I guess ;).

It did not feel too low for me, but it's the only true solo that I've used so I don't know what it's like compared to others. I'm 5'8" and 165lbs

It might be worth contacting the companies for the information for comparison. BTW, I'm 5'6" and 145 lbs. with short legs and arms ;).

KarlBAndersen1: "Thank you both, very much.
I enjoyed your explanations.
I heard from one friend personally that the NW Solo sat too low for him. He's about my size.
Did either of you find it uncomfortably low?
I'll do some more research this spring at Canoecopia."

You can easily raise the seats or have Northstar do it for you. I recommend raising the seat anyways. I feel they come too low from the factory.

Well, I'm afraid I haven't paddled either, however, since you mentioned the Current River in MO..... FWIW, I have paddled with a couple people who paddled the Wilderness and both felt it could use a bit more rocker. I saw one just "Tap" a small, benign looking log just below Pulltite Spring. He turned "Turtle" before he could have SAID "Turtle." Occasionally you will bump things on Ozark Rivers and I've smacked larger logs in worse areas without a "Scare" in my Bells. I've paddled a handful of Bell solos and most of the Wenonah solos and the secondary stability of the Bells has always been better, IMHO?

Well, I'm afraid I haven't paddled either, however, since you mentioned the Current River in MO..... FWIW, I have paddled with a couple people who paddled the Wilderness and both felt it could use a bit more rocker. I saw one just "Tap" a small, benign looking log just below Pulltite Spring. He turned "Turtle" before he could have SAID "Turtle." Occasionally you will bump things on Ozark Rivers and I've smacked larger logs in worse areas without a "Scare" in my Bells.

Maybe it's changed in the last 30-odd years, but my then girlfriend and I paddled the Current in a pair of Wenonah C1Ws, which are sleeker than the Wilderness and have 0 rocker, and they worked superbly. Unfortunately, because of the speed of the boats, we covered the trip in less time than we had expected (50 miles or so if I remember correctly). My gf was a competent paddler, but we were in no hurry. It was pretty country, and a nice trip.

I own and paddle a Royalex Wenonah Vagabond (14') which is the shorter version of the Wilderness (15' 6"). The Vagabond is very stable and I use it mostly on the local river.

Last year I had a Kevlite Bell Yellowstone (14'). The Bell was definitely more lively that my Vagabond.

I took the Yellowstone up to Piragis to trade it in. I paddled a Northwind Solo, a Wilderness, a SR Tranquility, and a Prism. The Northwind is definitely more lively than the others. The Wilderness and the Prism were more stable. As expected, the Wilderness turned a bite easier than the Prism.

I was looking over all the boats in the shed at Piragis and found a Prism with an adjustable web seat like the Wilderness has. I bought the Prism because I was looking for a tripping boat and I already have the Vagabond for river paddling.

My experience is that Ted's boats will in general be more lively (less initial stabilility) than Wenonah's boats. I like a more stable boat. If you like a more lively boat, I would go with the Northwind.

IceColdGold:
My experience is that Ted's boats will in general be more lively (less initial stabilility) than Wenonah's boats. I like a more stable boat. If you like a more lively boat, I would go with the Northwind."

Thank you, very much, for a nicely detailed opinion.
I've had my sights set on a Wilderness for a number of years.
Your comments just pushed me one step closer.

Just out of curiosity, IceColdGold - when you paddled the Northwind Solo at Piragis, did the seat seem low to you?

Northwind Solo. Just to answer the prior question, the seat is low. I fell out of mine the first time I climbed into it!

Then....I climbed back in.....and.....I fell out of it again! :)

When the shock wore off, I climbed back in and paddled away. I haven't fallen out since. Knock wood.

Karl,
I noticed this Wilderness for sale on the St Louis CL for $685. I have never paddled one and do not know the seller.

St Louis CL Wilderness $685

double post

I own a Northwind solo and owned a Vagabond. Wilderness's little brother people have said. I highly recommend the Northwind. I did raise my seat about 2 inches and you can ask the Northstar to do it for you if you know how high. It's and easy DIY. It's just a great all around solo canoe.

Sorry to be another responder who has not paddled both, but I hope this will help:

Last year I rented an UL Northwind Solo from Rockwood Outfitters. The outfitter edition seats are supported by aluminum L-brackets riveted to the side, a bit lower than either of the gunwale seat hangers offered as the standard option on the NW solo. I was disappointed at first, because I vastly prefer kneeling in a canoe and this was not possible with the seat height. However, even empty, the initial stability was much much higher than my old Bell Merlin II (predecessor/very similar to the NW Solo). Put a load in it and stability rises even more. My point is that seat height makes a monumental difference for initial stability.

Another point worth considering: the NW solo has substantially less depth and better resistance to high winds than the Wilderness, which is preferable unless you're planning some infrequent class II whitewater. NW Solo sheer is 17.5/12.5/15" bow/center/stern while Wilderness is 19/14/17". A little goes a very long way there, I've learned from paddling almost a dozen solo hulls.

Personally, I'd paddle both first before buying (e.g., MWM Spring Expo Thursday night at Lake Nokomis is a good way to do it). Still, I'd almost certainly go with the Northstar and adjust seat height as needed. Ultimately, I'm attracted to the finer attention to hull design details in David Yost's NW Solo (shouldered tumblehome = progressive and rock solid secondary stability, dialed-in differential rocker = maneuverability plus excellent tracking for non-world class paddlers, lower sheer line = better windage).

kona: "I'd almost certainly go with the Northstar and adjust seat height as needed. Ultimately, I'm attracted to the finer attention to hull design details in David Yost's NW Solo (shouldered tumblehome = progressive and rock solid secondary stability, dialed-in differential rocker = maneuverability plus excellent tracking for non-world class paddlers, lower sheer line = better windage)."

Thanks so much for that detailed and concise informative response.
I've leaned toward the NW Solo from the start.
I've wanted a Wilderness for years.
So - I'm torn.
But your 'report' gives me much more food for thought.
I really appreciate your time and opinion.

Just a non Bell persons question, but is there a difference between the New Northstar Composit Northwind Solo, and the old Bell Canoes Northwind Solo?
May make a difference in considering opinions and reviews.

On the other hand a trip to an outfitter or canoe shop like Rutabaga could get you a trial of both side by side.

butthead

To humbly repeat my last line in my original quote, "And don't get me wrong - I understand completely about getting in them and trying them. I'm not interested in MY opinion - I'm interested in yours."

Thanks for all the fabulous replies and experiences.
I hope more post on this. And if not - I plan to spend a great deal of research time at 'Copia.

boonie: "Just out of curiosity, IceColdGold - when you paddled the Northwind Solo at Piragis, did the seat seem low to you?"

Hmm, I don't recall. My Vagabond and my Prism both have the adjustable bench seat. I keep it at the lowest setting because I do not kneel.

The Bell Yellowstone that I was trading in did have the seat set lower than factory. I did a paddle that April with Ted and Bear and someone mentioned that the seat was low.

I do remember the NW Solo had the same feel as the Yellowstone. Like I said, less initial stability.

At the time, I was used to the feel of my Vagabond because I had paddled it all summer. That very well may explain why I felt more comfortable in the Prism. I would expect that if you try several boats early in the spring when you have not paddled much, they would feel different than if you paddled the same boats in the fall. Every spring it takes a bit to get used to paddling again.

Also, once you buy a boat, you will get familiar with that boat and whatever stability characteristics it has. I know everyone recommends paddling several boats before you buy, and I agree, but it hard to really get to know a boat unless you paddle it a number of times and in different conditions. Flat water, choppy water, empty, loaded, ...

The bottom line, they are both great boats and no matter which one you buy, you will learn how the boat behaves and get more comfortable the more you paddle it. It's all good.

I'm just going to throw this boat in here for your consideration. It's going to be my next solo. You can see these boats at Canoecopia if you will be there in march.

I really like the options package.
Swift Sheerwater

TomT: "I'm just going to throw this boat in here for your consideration. It's going to be my next solo. You can see these boats at Canoecopia if you will be there in march.
I really like the options package.
Swift Sheerwater "

Had to go an confuse things - didn't ya'!?
I like the specs on that. Thanks for throwing it in here for consideration.

The Shearwater is pricey.

KarlBAndersen1: "The Shearwater is pricey."

I'm looking at it as my last solo boat. I'm saving specifically to pay cash probably in 2019. They're very nice.

As is the Hemlock Kestral, another possible contender.

Full disclosure for my earlier perspective, I have a yellowstone solo that I enjoy and do not consider to be unstable. I know others do find it to be unstable.

A good reference thread in the David Yost solo canoe lineages: https://forums.paddling.com/discussion/1208030/bell-magic-vs-merlin-sitting-vs-kneeling#1209950

Others would know better than me, but my understanding is that the NW Solo is a slightly larger evolution of the old Bell Merlin II, which as discussed in the link above, has a long list of related hulls. I’m not sure if Yost or his son was officially involved in the NW Solo.

I’ll look forward to hearing about where you end up. These are all great boats and it would be hard to go wrong!

KarlBAndersen1: "The Shearwater is pricey."

but oh-so-pretty!

KarlBAndersen1: "The Shearwater is pricey."

Here's a nice video of their carbon gunnels. This is from 2012 but you can really see how they operate here.
Swift Canoe

Here's a tour of the 2018 boats. I like the 1 LB. carbon removable yoke and also the adjustable foot brace bar.
Swift 2018

Im not knocking carbon fusion trim, but the weight savings compared to say a northwind solo in starlight(28lbs) just dosnt seem worth it, whats the cost of a shearwater in carbon fusion(29lbs) vs. alum trim (36lbs)? Perhaps the swift canoes in carbon fusion are not carbon gunwales and you order them extra, so the weight is reduced even more then what the site shows?

Campnfish, I don't know those answers but they are good ones for me to ask at Canoecopia.

One thing I've noticed about the Swift canoes is that since they are a Canadian builder, there is a Canadian price list and American price list; not sure how much difference there is now.

boonie: "One thing I've noticed about the Swift canoes is that since they are a Canadian builder, there is a Canadian price list and American price list; not sure how much difference there is now. "

Thanks for pointing that out. It made a $300.00 difference!

I had a wilderness in a kevlar layaup for a couple years, and I liked it. Incredibly stable to fish from.

Cannot speak to the Northwind, but I now have a Shearwater, and it is the last solo I will own. At copia I will be looking at their tandems.

Frenchy19: "I had a wilderness in a kevlar layaup for a couple years, and I liked it. Incredibly stable to fish from.
Cannot speak to the Northwind, but I now have a Shearwater, and it is the last solo I will own. At copia I will be looking at their tandems. "

Thanks, Frenchy.
How would you compare the Wilderness to the Shearwater? Do you prefer the Shearwater?

Hey Karl, did Ben happen to deliver a canoe for you? Just wondering if you made a decision.

HayRiverDrifter: "Hey Karl, did Ben happen to deliver a canoe for you? Just wondering if you made a decision."

No - he just stopped by for the night and dinner 'cause he's a friend and old neighbor.
I want to research the Swift Shearwater in Madison next weekend at 'Copia.

Wilderness - Northwind - Shearwater
If you are buying a fishing platform the Wilderness has hands down the better initial stability. If you want to enjoy paddling for paddling sake, I would enjoy the Northwind the best. If the Lightest most techy then the Swift may be your cup of tea. Not sure where you are going to put your emphasis on but in any case you will be paddling the hull of your choosing for years to come, and may it put a big smile on your face.

DanCooke: "Wilderness - Northwind - Shearwater
If you are buying a fishing platform the Wilderness has hands down the better initial stability. If you want to enjoy paddling for paddling sake, I would enjoy the Northwind the best. If the Lightest most techy then the Swift may be your cup of tea. Not sure where you are going to put your emphasis on but in any case you will be paddling the hull of your choosing for years to come, and may it put a big smile on your face."

The Northwind Solo UL is 1 pound less then the Shearwater Carbon offering.

Karl, i'm not sure where your located, and i understand your looking for others opinions. I cant give you an opinion yet, however, if our near the Twin Cities i picked up a Northwind solo starlite this winter that your welcome to try when the ice is out around here.

Blatz: /
"The Northwind Solo UL is 1 pound less then the Shearwater Carbon offering."

My NW Solo came in at 29, not 28, its a used 2017 so maybe it has a lot of dirt on it.

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their input on this subject.
There has been an incredible amount of advice and experience expressed here.
I still have yet to make my final decision but this weekend at 'Copia will continue to add to my research.
Sorry you won't be there this weekend, Dan. But - I get it. You can only be so many places and then you're just stretched too thin to enjoy life.

After two days of kicking tires, personal inspection and lots of questions at Canoecopia, I settled on the Wilderness in Tuff-weave with the adjustable bench seat and black aluminum gunwales.

Congratulations! Well done. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

kona: "Congratulations! Well done. I'm sure you'll enjoy it."

+1, hope you'll let us know how you like it after you've paddled a few times.

TomT: "

KarlBAndersen1: "The Shearwater is pricey."

Here's a nice video of their carbon gunnels. This is from 2012 but you can really see how they operate here.
Swift Canoe

Here's a tour of the 2018 boats. I like the 1 LB. carbon removable yoke and also the adjustable foot brace bar.
Swift 2018

"

Now that's some canoe porn right there! :)