Planning stages for 2019 trip.
2018 trip was #23 entry up to LBF and camped near falls. 2nd day went to Wednesday Bay and stayed two nights. 3rd day went across Crooked to Friday bay and headed south all the way back to entry point #23. (long day)

This year I was looking to replicated part of the trip which was Crooked Lake.
Long story short we didn't get to do exactly what we wanted as far as campsites/group sickness but I really loved Crooked Lake and would love to see it again w/o the mess of the Fourtown Lake leg.

I have been doing a lot of research on LLC and it seems as if it might be of the same nature as Crooked. ( ie. lots of islands, bays and channels)

My thought was entry # 14 or #16 up into LLC and all the way across LLC to iron and into Crooked and retrace our route back to Mudro exit staying at the same campsite in Wednesday bay which I thought was awesome.

My dilemma is which path to take if I go Little Indian Sioux up to LLC.
#16 entry is pretty straightforward, up to Agnes and into LLC but I have also read that that is a very busy route as well.

I am looking at 4 guys 1.5x portaging with me being the oldest at 45 if we go again in August. We will be fishing along the way and would like to do the entire trip in 5-6 days.
Only 2 of us have experience in the BWCA, 2018 being our first trip. We made it from Mudro to LBF in 6 hours and both of us had a pretty crappy head/chest cold which plagued us the entire trip. The longest day being wednesday bay all the way back to Mudro. The Moosecamp river was sooo slow with all the weeds. Every site was taken all the way back. We ended up back at the truck at 9pm. 13 hours of paddling and portaging with the one miler out of Friday bay combined with the precarious rocky portages coming out of Fourtown it was quite the experience.

I don't mind the portages too much but would rather not have to cross a bunch of small lake with attached portages. I'd much rather paddle the day away like we experienced with Crooked, than hump packs through the woods half the day.

I am hesitant about shooting up Loon Lake and into Snow bay as far as motor traffic/people etc. The august time frame works well with us. I like the more stable weather patterns, albeit hot.
I want to stay with VNO again and have the vehicle dropped off at Mudro and get shuttled to one of the other entry points.

I also might add that this is a budget minded trip and most of the guys will not be able to afford the luxury of a tow.

Your thoughts and advice?

I'd recommend #16 (moose) over #14 (LIS). Both can be busy, but with #16, I've generally only had problems finding campsites on Nina Moose, which is pretty close to the entry point and you wouldn't be camping there anyways. If you go from LIS to Mudro, you will either have to paddle the entirety of LLC, which always has the potential to leave you windbound, or add a lot of portaging through the little lakes south of LLC. The whole route from #14-23 is much longer/more work than #16-23. If you shoot up Moose River to Boulder Bay in LLC, you could still spend a couple of days exploring the east end of LLC if you want, which is more protected than the northern basin. #16 to #23 is a great route, only downside is setting up vehicle shuttle. I also really like Iron Lake along the way.

Wow: Thoughts: Unless you are confident of all trippers, I say be prepared to increase the time for this trip. I missed where you are traveling from, but cut your travel time to a max of one day each way by staying at a bunkhouse before entering AND after your paddle out. This could increase your days on the water by one, if you have a longer travel trip, such as 800 miles or more. Leave early both travel days and arrive late in day or evening. Reservations and a welcome home is required.

Fishing along the way should be cancelled. At least, do catch and release for a set time say 30 minutes if you must. Do not troll or keep caught fish. You can fish hard for 3 or 4 days by your schedule as presented from daybreak until dusk. Have a designated cooking rotation for AM and PM. Consider most meals as non cook also or at least, heat and serve. If fishing is the all consuming issue, this will make it possible to maximize your goal. If eating fish is warranted, that cooking and cleaning must be considered a part of your fishing time. Some of your group probably will not be interested in dawn to dusk fishing. They may be interested in staying at camp and cooking, etc. Hammer the details of what each wants for the trip BEFORE getting into the transportation from home. I do not think it likely everyone will share the same goals and the non-tripper probably do not actually realize what they are getting into. Hopefully pretrip meetings have and or will be considered.

Go on to water at first light on day one. Everything should be 100% ready to go then without eating breakfast in a restaurant or any shopping. I suggest a destination base camp with day trips for the fishing or scenery as desired. A hard day in and out the only difficult days. Without breaking and carrying gear, you can start early and travel
long distances with a return to your base. See BASE CAMPING BASICS at the bottom of the message board for some successful tips and ideas for basecamping.

16 to 23 would be great. In your allowed time, 14 would be a strain to get to where you want to go and fish too.

Day 1 to Agnes or LLC. Day 2 to at least Iron and curtain falls. Day 3 to your Wednesday site and what you want before or after for layover or more travel days. Great scenery, fishing, etc.

Search for curtain falls on here, take the offshoot portage in the small bay south of the actual portage. Many have swamped trying to get up a narrows with current to the main portage landing. You add a few rods by going around but far safer esp for new paddlers.

my thoughts are #16. Pre-trip meetingS. 6-7 days on the water.

I have been through this area quite a few time and would also recommend EP#16 for the shorter trip you have planned, especially if you want to have time to fish. I would recommend making it to Boulder Bay or Tiger Bay of LLC your first day as it is much less crowded and I have had good luck fishing there. Also nice camp sites in that area and less crowded than Agnes and or Nina Moose.
That is a great route, good fishing, and beautiful scenery. I would agree with cyclone30 on taking the longer portage in the little bay at Curtain falls with inexperienced paddlers, although you can have a look for yourself first before deciding. If you had a few more days I would have said EP14 as I've had some great fishing on LLC and boats have never been an issue for me on Loon or LLC.
Have a great trip!

We paddled thru Loon heading to LLC once, had some boats near us but oh well. We stayed there a night on the way back to he EP and I hated the boats. I'll never stay on that lake again, but will use it as travel route.

Just FYI, not that I'm recommending you go that way.

Thanks all for the replies.

My initial thoughts were to stay on Agnes first day, Iron the second, Crooked for 3 and 4 then Horse lake for 5 and out the next.

The more I research and read trip reports the more I want to just head up into the Boulder bay/Tiger bay area and maybe base camp and do some day trips.
I think I have more open ended options that way and it will give us more time for fishing and exploring. Curtain falls, Warrior Hill and pictographs to name a few.

This would also enable us to maybe carry a bit more gear/food/leeches without the added portages. Another positive would be if someone were under the weather a bit as we were this year we wouldn't be forced on a "canoe death march" to make sure we made it out in time.
We are coming from Michigan and it's about a ten hour drive. Last trip we left my house at 2am went down around Chicago and up through Wisconsin. Took 12 hours. On the way home we cut through the UP and shaved 2 hours off the trip and avoided all those stupid tolls too.
Plan would be a Sunday entry day with a Friday evening exit with a stay in the bunkhouse at VNO before and after.

All of us have actual canoeing experience but the other 2 guys just haven't been canoe camping yet. The intriguing part about that area of LLC is it looks like you can have some areas for safe paddling despite the wind if it should arise. Lots of areas to tuck into and fish sheltered coves etc.

2 main lessons I learned from 2018 was #1 don't go cheap on the sleeping pad. The two I bought both popped on night one. Sleeping on hard ground was tough on us to say the least. #2 The everyday "bag" chairs are lousy. Mine broke at the second campsite and it was annoying to lug around something that wasn't useful.

We took a spare paddle with us as well. Never used it except to filet fish on. Our other two paddles were composite and weighed so much less than that heavy wooden one. Probably will forgo that as well or at least make sure it's another lightweight composite. (rentals)

We also took a third fishing rod and never used that either. Probably will leave that home as well unless we base camp.

I also used a dry bag for our food pack last time and it only had a carrying strap. It was terrible. Plus I did not like trying to hang it every night. Extra rope and a heavy pulley, trying to find the right tree etc. Switching to a barrel this year.

Last time I also utilized two stadium seats with backrests for the canoe. They each folded in half with a strap to keep them shut. Had armrests and pockets. They each weighed around 3-4 pounds I'd say. Aluminum framed. They were very comfortable and I ratchet strapped them right to the canoe seat so they didn't lean back or fall out while portaging. For me they were worth the extra weight. I had purchased one of the strap types (no frame) like I see everyone else using on youtube videos and I tried it out in my canoe at home and did not care for it. Not enough support if you really want to put some weight on it.

Anyone have any other must see/do things for that area? Great campsites? Fishing tips?

Much appreciate all the tips and advice!

-Bushman

Bushman
My initial thoughts were to stay on Agnes first day, Iron the second, Crooked for 3 and 4 then Horse lake for 5 and out the next.



-Bushman "

I've been through this area several times and that it a very good itinerary. Personally, the only change I would make is to take the layover on Iron, as I have had much more luck fishing there.

I use a Crazy Creek chair, both in the canoe and in camp. Never liked the idea of the extra weight of a framed chair.

VNO will rent you a food pack with a cardboard and plastic liner for a reasonable price.

Have a great trip!

I wouldn't think about leaving my spare paddle behind and I have never had to use it. Same with the spare fishing pole. Although if you can enjoy yourself if you can't fish anymore then leave it behind. I used a metal stadium chair for years too and loved them. I too didn't like the unframed ones. You will learn what is worth the weight and what isn't to you. I bring a journal with and make notes on what works and what doesn't. What I should have brought and what I should have left at home.

minnmike: " I wouldn't think about leaving my spare paddle behind and I have never had to use it. "

Agreed. Last summer, one of my tripmates broke an "indestructible" aluminum and plastic Carlisle paddle. He didn't have a spare in his canoe thinking it would never break, thankfully I did.

Bringing a spare paddle is like bringing a spare pair of underwear, you never need them, until you do........

I too would consider a spare paddle much more essential than a chair from a weight standpoint.

Point taken on the paddle.
I am really leaning more towards a base camp or maybe a double base camp instead and bringing a few extra pounds won't be so bad.
I think one spare fishing rod per canoe will do.

I really like my framed canoe chair. Super comfy and the pockets are great for things like granola bars and sunflower seeds to munch while paddling.

As far as the barrel...I don't see myself quitting this anytime soon. I was hooked from the first entry point. I think a 30L barrel for 2 guys should suffice just fine.
Last trip we ate fish twice which was nice. 3x wouldn't hurt my feelings at all!

I'm looking into at least one portage pack this year. The GG Quetico Superior looks nice and large enough to hold all the gear. Either that or I get a 60L barrel and keep all the cooking gear inside of it with the food. Probably better that way anyways.

Last trip we utilized 2 walmart backpacks and a frame backpack from Goodwill. The backpacks worked just fine but the framed backpack went right back to Goodwill the moment I got home. That thing was awful!

I'm thinking one portage pack for tent, tarp and all other supplies. One barrel for cooking/food. Then each guy would have a personal backpack for their own clothes, cameras, fishing gear etc.
This would make it nice for 1.5X portaging. First guy takes the canoe and personal backpack while the second guy takes the portage pack and dumps it half way and goes back for the remaining barrel and front mounted personal back pack.

I am planning the exact original trip you spoke of for this upcoming June, with my brother and our two teenage sons. However, we plan on taking 10-12 days to do it. From the research I've done, it seems like you may be wise to abandon the loop down to Mudro and try basecamping somewhere near Iron. Either that, or work yourself out a few more days and go for it. I originally posted on here looking for a "father-son dream trip" - and this is the route recommended by many - and their recommendation was to take at least 8-10 days to do it. We plan to take our time and enjoy it. But if you push it too hard, have a bad stretch of weather, an injury, or something else unforseen, you may turn a dream trip into a nightmare. Seems like Iron is a great place to basecamp and fish, could be reached easily in two days, spend a couple days fishing, then head back out. Or here's another thought - my original idea was to put in at Mudro and head straight north for Crooked, if you busted your butts you apparently can get to Crooked in one day, then work your way back round - headed east through Crooked and back down through LBF, Horse and out again at Mudro. Just my two cents. Good luck on your trip, sounds like we'll hit some of the same waters this summer. Tight lines!

scotttimm: "I am planning the exact original trip you spoke of for this upcoming June, with my brother and our two teenage sons. However, we plan on taking 10-12 days to do it. From the research I've done, it seems like you may be wise to abandon the loop down to Mudro and try basecamping somewhere near Iron. Either that, or work yourself out a few more days and go for it. I originally posted on here looking for a "father-son dream trip" - and this is the route recommended by many - and their recommendation was to take at least 8-10 days to do it. We plan to take our time and enjoy it. But if you push it too hard, have a bad stretch of weather, an injury, or something else unforseen, you may turn a dream trip into a nightmare. Seems like Iron is a great place to basecamp and fish, could be reached easily in two days, spend a couple days fishing, then head back out. Or here's another thought - my original idea was to put in at Mudro and head straight north for Crooked, if you busted your butts you apparently can get to Crooked in one day, then work your way back round - headed east through Crooked and back down through LBF, Horse and out again at Mudro. Just my two cents. Good luck on your trip, sounds like we'll hit some of the same waters this summer. Tight lines!"

Almost the trip I did this year except we went east to west on the loop. Mudro thru Fourtown to friday bay would be doable but you'd be tired for sure. We went from Wednesday Bay all the way across Crooked into Friday Bay, down thru the little lakes into Moosecamp Lake and down the very slow Moosecamp Lake river and into Fourtown and back out Mudro. We left camp on Wednesday bay at 8am and hit the parking lot at 9pm.

We had only see a handful of canoeist the whole trip so we decided to skip camping in Friday bay and try for a campsite on Moosecamp Lake. They were all taken and so was every other campsite south of it thru Fourtown. We just kept going hoping the next spot would be open and next thing you know we were at the end. Trust me the portages out of Fourtown are not friendly after you've been paddling and portaging for 10 hours.

Whatever you decide have fun. Make as many memories as you can. I wish my father was healthy enough to do a trip with me. we always did fly-in camps together and fished and hunted like crazy. Now he is on the heart transplant list and will likely never go on another adventure with me again. :(

Ahh there you go. Time does fly, and I am trying to enjoy the time I have with my son while he still wants to hang out with me. He has, I think, 6 or 7 BW trips under his belt, and last year declared that he wants to ditch his sisters and my wife and go for a long one. They aren't too happy about missing out - so we're thinking of meeting up with them on Horse at the end of our trip for a few days. I'm sure we'll be total cavemen by that point, and they better arrive with a cheeseburger. I'm in the same boat with my father - though he is in decent health, he's just not up for sleeping on the ground anymore. I thought that maybe some day I could convince him to stay at a place like this with us for a few days, let me paddle him out and take him fishing:
Kawishiwi Lodge

The more I look at it, the more I like this route. I hadn't considered it, but it does avoid Fourtown and all that. I have heard the Moosecamp river can be scenic and a nice paddle, but I have also heard that Iron Lake has some great fishing. I already want to spend a lot of time fishing on and around Crooked.

The only difference is, I would do #23 to #16 due to where I could want to stop and the time I want to spend there.

Day 1, Mudro to LBF. Known route, solid travel day, but not too exhausting if the water is high. Fishing once camp is situated.

Day 2, LBF to Friday Bay. Awesome second day, no portages or pullovers or anything to worry about as long as wind is OK. Just paddle, fish, take photos... it sounds like a really solid day 2.

Day 3 & 4, Friday Bay. Fish around the area, check out all the bays and mini-bays.

Day 5, Friday to Iron. Fairly easy travel day with a single portage. Can fish along the way without the delays mattering too much.

Day 6, Iron. Fish it hard!

Day 7, Iron to Agnes. Do a little fishing maybe on the way out of Iron and once situated on Agnes.

Day 8, all the way out, not too hard but a nice meandering route.

The differences if you do #16 to #23:
*Spend more of your time up front on Iron for days 2, 3 & 4
*Stay in Thursday Bay or somewhere close for days 5 & 6
*Pushing to Horse from Thursday Bay on day 7 should be doable, but the river may be taxing later in the day (sun beating down, long day already, etc)
*No staying near LBF which is a scenic area with some excellent fishing opportunities

I think you will encounter roughly the same amount of people on the same legs of the trip (around Iron/Crooked and on the entry lakes) no matter which route you take. Personally, I want to see LBF and think spending most of my time on Crooked is how I want to do the route. If you want to spend more time on Iron, then the #16 makes a lot of sense!

Thanks for the idea! This does involve a lot of driving on the first morning though, if you want to drop the car off - 30 mins from Ely to #23, and an hour from #23 to #16. I'd almost rather leave my car in Ely and get driven out there and picked up by the outfitter. It's still an hour out to #16 which is a long drive - I would want to skip breakfast (eat some granola bars) and get on the road ASAP. But, anyway it seems feasible and it lets me see more of this area that I want to see (Iron), and less of it that I "don't" want to see.

flynn: "The more I look at it, the more I like this route. I hadn't considered it, but it does avoid Fourtown and all that. I have heard the Moosecamp river can be scenic and a nice paddle, but I have also heard that Iron Lake has some great fishing. I already want to spend a lot of time fishing on and around Crooked.


The only difference is, I would do #23 to #16 due to where I could want to stop and the time I want to spend there.


Day 1, Mudro to LBF. Known route, solid travel day, but not too exhausting if the water is high. Fishing once camp is situated.


Day 2, LBF to Friday Bay. Awesome second day, no portages or pullovers or anything to worry about as long as wind is OK. Just paddle, fish, take photos... it sounds like a really solid day 2.


Day 3 & 4, Friday Bay. Fish around the area, check out all the bays and mini-bays.


Day 5, Friday to Iron. Fairly easy travel day with a single portage. Can fish along the way without the delays mattering too much.


Day 6, Iron. Fish it hard!


Day 7, Iron to Agnes. Do a little fishing maybe on the way out of Iron and once situated on Agnes.


Day 8, all the way out, not too hard but a nice meandering route.


The differences if you do #16 to #23:
*Spend more of your time up front on Iron for days 2, 3 & 4
*Stay in Thursday Bay or somewhere close for days 5 & 6
*Pushing to Horse from Thursday Bay on day 7 should be doable, but the river may be taxing later in the day (sun beating down, long day already, etc)
*No staying near LBF which is a scenic area with some excellent fishing opportunities


I think you will encounter roughly the same amount of people on the same legs of the trip (around Iron/Crooked and on the entry lakes) no matter which route you take. Personally, I want to see LBF and think spending most of my time on Crooked is how I want to do the route. If you want to spend more time on Iron, then the #16 makes a lot of sense!


Thanks for the idea! This does involve a lot of driving on the first morning though, if you want to drop the car off - 30 mins from Ely to #23, and an hour from #23 to #16. I'd almost rather leave my car in Ely and get driven out there and picked up by the outfitter. It's still an hour out to #16 which is a long drive - I would want to skip breakfast (eat some granola bars) and get on the road ASAP. But, anyway it seems feasible and it lets me see more of this area that I want to see (Iron), and less of it that I "don't" want to see. "

Your plan looks real solid with the plan to leave from E.P. 23. The only thing that would sway me to go the opposite would be the fact that potentially you could have the wind at your face for several days with the wind typically coming out of the west. Crossing Crooked, Iron and LLC into the wind would turn the average guy into Popeye in no time.