I've been using the old Coleman dual fuel stoves for years. Time for an upgrade.. We cook more than most. Looking for some recommendations on a good stove.

Going with a few assumptions taken from what you said, lots of cooking, used to a fairly bulky liquid white gasoline fueled stove, current cookware suited to such a stove. Seems you're interested in liquid fuel, sturdy, adjustable burners.
I find it hard to beat a MSR Dragonfly. Dependable, adjustable, good heat output, stable pot/pan support. I like it better than Primus/Optimus/Brunton remote gas single burners I've owned or used.
I've owned and rebuilt several (heartily recommend used), sold all but my personal Dragonfly. Even converted mine to try canister fuels but changed back. I have several silent caps to use with them, but still like the simplicity of the roarer burner.

If you need 2 burners my experience is 2 separate singles are better than a double.
Remote fuel tank stoves work better than integrated stoves, allowing better windscreens, pot support, and stability.
Canister fuel has more choices and but offers less camp cooking versatility in terms of strength and stability (pot supports), also cold weather use.

butthead

I have been using the dual fuel Coleman for years also. I bought a Primus ETA lite for my solo trip and loved it. The mug locks right on it and it is very small and lite, perfect for solo tripping. But I plan to keep using the Coleman for tandem or multi person trips. It is so freaking dependable and has awesome flame.
I have been thinking about replacing it to save weight, but not sure it is worth losing the up sides of such a great stove. What is your reasoning for wanting to change stoves? Is it a weight issue also?

For many years we used only white gas... first the Coleman Feather 400 stove then the slightly larger Dual fuel Coleman 533. Both served us well.
But being a gear addict and based on some recommendations on this site, I just picked up a MSR Windpro II
Since I am up north during the spring and fall, I wanted good cold weather performance. I also like that it nicely supports the frying pan and 3 qt pot with a wider burner rack.
I haven't used it on a trip yet, but it worked nicely here at home when the temps were into the 20s.

We cook more than most too and value simmering and pot stability. For white gas, I also found the dragonfly to be great. Downsides are a bit noisy and some people find lighting the white gas harder due to the priming. Those problems are solved by using the Windpro canister stoves. But the white gas is lighter for long trips. So there are trade offs but we’ve been happy with those two MSR stoves.

myceliaman: "I've been using the old Coleman dual fuel stoves for years. Time for an upgrade.. We cook more than most. Looking for some recommendations on a gd stove.!!"

It is so many stoves out there, so it would be nice to know what who is imortant for you in an order, noise, kind of fuel, high output vs simmering, single or dual burners, weight, stability etc.

I do not care to much about noise, but simmering is important, most butane and liquid fuel stoves has output enough for me, stability makes me often choose a stove with a separate fuel botle. I prefere white gas, but many people says that is old-fashioned, and want the instant startup of the LPG versions.

MSR has lightweight high quality stoves, Simmerlite is a good one, but the pot-stand has to little friction. Brunton Nova is even a better one, but the quick connections makes problems for many.

At last, I always comes back to my Coleman Apex ii bought on Ebay. :-) But that is for me!

Most important, you need to pick a stove you feel comfortable and safe with.

dsk

myceliaman: "I've been using the old Coleman dual fuel stoves for years. Time for an upgrade.. We cook more than most. Looking for some recommendations on a gd stove.!!"

Are you looking for a stove to use on solo trips, small groups (2-3 campers) or Larger groups? Are you looking for something that you would use into the winter months or just warmer seasons?

For solo use during warmer seasons; nothing beats a MSR Pocket Rocket 2 for utility, convenience and design awesomeness. Depending on how you cook, this stove could be enough for a small group.

The Primus Classic trail is cheaper and the burner is a bit bigger. It's the stove I give as gifts to campers building their camp kit. It works with a wide range size of pans, boils fast and simmers well. At less than $20 it is one of the best values you'll find in an outdoors store.

If you want one stove to serve all your needs, consider the MSR Whisperlight Universal. It burns canister fuel when you want the convenience, burns white gas when you winter camp and it burns kerosene or gasoline when your remoteness leaves limited options. This is a powerful stove capable of cooking for large groups. It cooks equally well for groups of 1-4 but, it is a bit heavier and bulkier than necessary for a solol trip. Cost of the MSR Universal is over $100 but, it will last your lifetime and more.

I have over a dozen stoves. If I lost them all, these three would be the only that I would replace.

Good Luck

butthead: "Going with a few assumptions taken from what you said, lots of cooking, used to a fairly bulky liquid white gasoline fueled stove, current cookware suited to such a stove. Seems you're interested in liquid fuel, sturdy, adjustable burners.
I find it hard to beat a MSR Dragonfly. Dependable, adjustable, good heat output, stable pot/pan support. I like it better than Primus/Optimus/Brunton remote gas single burners I've owned or used.
I've owned and rebuilt several (heartily recommend used), sold all but my personal Dragonfly. Even converted mine to try canister fuels but changed back. I have several silent caps to use with them, but still like the simplicity of the roarer burner.


If you need 2 burners my experience is 2 separate singles are better than a double.
Remote fuel tank stoves work better than integrated stoves, allowing better windscreens, pot support, and stability.
Canister fuel has more choices and but offers less camp cooking versatility in terms of strength and stability (pot supports), also cold weather use.


butthead"

+1

We cook a LOT, more than you, and longer. I may be a wimp, but I like my vittles!

The best real cooking stove, by far, is someone who knows how to make a good 5-zone cooking fire, in almost any conditions. There is no comparison for versatility, speed, simmering, durability, reliability, light weight, fuel supply, etc.

In the stove world, if you do a lot of cooking, I agree with Butthead about 2 single burners vs 1 double burner. You might think at first that it is unnecessarily heavy because of tank/regulator redundancy, but if you are doing lots of cooking you will likely need more than 1 bottle of fuel anyway, even in the dual burner. Also, the complete redundancy gives you insurance in case of stove failure, and versatility in that you could easily take one of them on a day hike if you wanted to.

Plus, all that steel on the Coleman is unnecessarily heavy. On our single burner I use old license plates as windscreens and base if needed, they are super-light and super-adjustable for every situation.

In fact, we cook so much that I often feel that we are missing out on better things to do. My wife loves it, so there it is.

But I would love to do a trip with mostly dry just-add-water-and-maybe-heat-type food, it would free up many hours for other things. I tried suggesting it once, and that was enough for me. I guess everything comes at a price. :)

I travel with the family, and need something that can hold a whole lightweight griddle if making a ton of pancakes, eggs, bacon, hashbrowns, or cooking big fillets. Or something so I can do two different pots at once. I've had one of these for, I don't know...6 years? Lasted through multiple long car camping trips and at least 4 BWCA trips. It is not at all heavy, not at all fancy, and is reliable as hell. Just ditch the little feet. My daughter sewed a soft case for it so it doesn't tear anything up in the portage pack. Oh, and at $34 I'll just buy another one when this poops out.
Bass Pro 2 Burner

I have a Jetboil, alcohol homemade pop can, Whisperlite, Dragonfly and the old green suitcase Coleman stoves.

The Dragonfly is my favorite for anything but car camping. Car camping I use the green suitcase.

Hard to beat the green suitcase for overall performance and Jetboil if all one is doing is water boiling at lower altitudes and outside of winter.

I finally bit the bullet and replaced my little coleman single burner with 30 years of backwods experience with the MSR Whisperlight Universal and I could not be happier. I have run it with white gas, propane and butane canisters with equal success.

I could not find any BTU data on these stoves. I just love the 10K BTU's my propane canister stove puts out for frying fish. Are the DragonFly and WhisperLite good at frying fish?

My needs are completely different from yours - we mainly boil water for freeze dried meals or hot dogs or mac and cheese, we don't do a lot of simmering. If we're going to cook raw meats, we usually do that over a fire, or we don't do it. For us, the Jet Boil and the Pocket Rocket canister stoves are perfect. Fewer moving parts, ease of use, and no stress about leaky white gas bottles are more important than simmering (for us.)

I used to have an MSR Whisperlite stove that ran on liquid gas and it was quite adept at full blast boiling and simmering. I imagine whatever stove MSR makes now that is a similar style would be just as adept. It had a quite versatile valve that could bring the flame down to virtually nothing but still keep it going. And wide open would boil a quart of water in a couple minutes. And it never failed once. Then again, neither have my canister stoves. This was about 30 years ago. They probably have something a lot easier to use now.

I took Butthead's (Mr. Stove) advice years ago and got a Dragonfly. Great all around stove, easy to clean/maintain and you can buy a cap if the noise bothers you.

AmarilloJim: "I could not find any BTU data on these stoves. I just love the 10K BTU's my propane canister stove puts out for frying fish. Are the DragonFly and WhisperLite good at frying fish?"

BTU's while measurable and a good standard say little till you look at the flame spread. That impacts the cooking sizes of pots and pans.
Yes, frying with either Dragonfly or Whisperlight is easy, and the flame fronts rather large allowing large diameter pans. I have a slightly modified Whisperlight (old white gas only, old pre shaker jet, extra waffle plate in the stack), that melted a 3/8 inch thick, 5 1/2 inch diameter aluminum plate (made a waffle waved inch thick sculpture), in 8 minutes!
The Dragonfly is better due to it's stability with large fry pans.

butthead

Just a word for Guest Wimp, in the BWCA you have to use the supplied fixed grate for fires making a temp zoned cook area difficult to impossible as you intone. And stop bragging, you do not know how much others cook.

butthead

butthead: "Just a word for Guest Wimp, in the BWCA you have to use the supplied fixed grate for fires making a temp zoned cook area difficult to impossible as you intone. And stop bragging, you do not know how much others cook.


butthead"

1. It wasn’t a brag, it was a lament. See my second post.

2. It is possible, I do it every time in a grate, and manage it throughout the cooking process.

3. I have been with hundreds of people of all types, maybe thousands (I am old). We do spend more time cooking than you, anybody here, or anybody else does. My wife is French, and even makes complex sauces in the BW. If you know about cuisine, end of thread.??

4. I do not recommend it, sometimes I wonder what the point is of being in the BW at all.

BTW BW’ers should try the simple Truite au bleu preparation, it can be great, and fast. Of course the right wine and truffles make it better, but it is good and fast using a simple court bouillon rather than a more complex stock.

And mushroom season here, omg. French friends and family come over and go up with us, it is an annual tradition. World-class! Don’t tell anybody.

My 40 year old Coleman stoves are starting to fail so I needed something new. I am a white gas person so I purchased a pair of Primus white gas stoves. Hated the noise and they were never level. So I took the legs off my Coleman stoves and purchased a pair of quiet stoves and now I have a good setup.

MP, great fix for your stoves. Something I like to do. That makes a stable multi fuel stove both canister and white gas. Kind of similar but with an MSR Rapidfire I have. Canister stove as sold by MSR, by using a Primus Ergo Pump it runs great with white gas also. Kind of a pre Whisperlight Universal but uses a MSR Trillium base.

butthead

BH
I wanted a stove with a control allowing a fairly low simmer as well as a high. In my experience to get a good simmer there needs to be a control valve after the fuel is vaporized. The old Colemans did it with a ling wire needle valve that ran to the vaporizing tube. This primus stove does have a fairly (although not as good as the old Colelman) simmer.

Simmer is the reason to go with an Primus Omni, Optimus Nova or MSR Dragonfly, all use the dual valve setup and work very well, Nova has a smaller pot support vs the Dragonfly, and not quite the output but certainly enough to burn any pan fried food. My oldest Whisperlight with the pre-shaker jet does simmer quite well but needs attention to maintain an even setting. I have used kero jets to reduce the heat output for low temp running at the cost of higher output.
Sorry for going past the OP's intent but I find this stuff interesting.

butthead

I was never really that happy with the burner on the dragonfly as it was closer to the old-school svea/primus burners and I find it doesn't spread the heat very well and doesn't perform super well in the wind. It was great for really cold weather, but the XGK EX I have now is better for that and I find with some practice I can simmer almost as well without the second valve.

All around though I'd have to suggest the windpro 2, kovea spider, or some other remote canister stove with the inversion option. The windpro 2 is as adjustable as any stove you'd use at home and it has a nice wide burner that distributes heat well and works OK in the wind. The sound never really bothered me for any stove, but it is much more quiet than one of the turbulent burners on the XGK/dragonfly. They work fine in temps that most reasonable people would be out cooking in (I've used mine down to about 10 degrees). No pumping, priming, fiddling with valves, or worrying about fuel leaks. I like simple. :)

keth0601: " I find it doesn't spread the heat very well and doesn't perform super well in the wind. It was great for really cold weather, but the XGK EX I have now is better for that and I find with some practice I can simmer almost as well without the second valve"

My experience is just the opposite with the Dragonfly boiling a quart slightly faster than any of the XGK 2's I have (do not have a EX yet). Not a lot, but it is quicker to boil. And I always use a windscreen, that's why MSR provides them. Yes I can simmer fairly well with the XGK's (if you remove the shaker needle it simmers better and the old style tall jet adds more), but nowhere as well as the Dragonfly. The pot support on the Dragonfly seals the general cooking use It is just larger and more stable.

If myceliaman is interested in changing to canister gas, well that is a much larger group of good cooking burners and different recommendations. I'd also start there with the MSR Windpro 2.

butthead

butthead: "
My experience is just the opposite with the Dragonfly boiling a quart slightly faster than any of the XGK 2's I have (do not have a EX yet). Not a lot, but it is quicker to boil. And I always use a windscreen, that's why MSR provides them. Yes I can simmer fairly well with the XGK's (if you remove the shaker needle it simmers better and the old style tall jet adds more), but nowhere as well as the Dragonfly. The pot support on the Dragonfly seals the general cooking use It is just larger and more stable."

When I said "better for that" I was referring to cold weather really (it has the generator tube and the arctic pump). I guess that wasn't super clear. The dragonfly does simmer better, the XGK is only OK for simmering at best. The pot supports on the EX felt better to me than the dragonfly, but to each his own.

I wouldn't recommend the XGK to any normal stove user and I wasn't really recommending it here, just explaining why it replaced the dragonfly for me, it's a niche stove for mountaineers and people camping in extreme cold. It's not a great stove for general camping and cooking use.

butthead: "
If myceliaman is interested in changing to canister gas, well that is a much larger group of good cooking burners and different recommendations. I'd also start there with the MSR Windpro 2."

I guess I hadn't noticed that canister gas was ruled out, just said he was replacing a coleman dual fuel.

Yes for sure keth0601, the XKG series is a specialty stove for very robust reliability. Simple and easy to clean with it's huge fuel line/tube and steel wire cable, it's the easiest to field clean and maintain.
I made the assumption on of fuel choice on what myceliaman had been using. A 2 valve adjustable liquid fueled stove fits well into that category. Good versions I have used Dragonfly, Optimus Nova, Primus Omnifuel, Brunton Vapor AF, Coleman Apex 2.
Canister fuel opens up a lot of other make and models.

butthead

Littlebug stoves are fun and you do not have to carry fuel. We just used little twigs and sticks on our 6 day trip last summer, only broke out the alcohol stove for a quick coffee.

https://littlbug.com/stoves/

I'm one of those outdoor stove 'junkies' and have over a dozen stoves. For BWCA groups, I'd recommend -as some others have- two single burner stoves, by MSR, Primus, or Optimus. Get ones that use remote canisters or fuel bottles as there is usually wind at camp! Ones like the MSR universal or Primus Omnifuel can burn liquid or canisters, so sometimes it's nice to have that flexibility. Make that decision first (liquid and/or canisters) to guide your choice. I honestly like having liquid just for lower cost, environment, and for some reason like to think I have a good fire starting fuel if there was an emergency. I use 1 or 2 Primus Omnilite (titanium) myself although they are pricey, I think they are the best stoves made right now. You can get some good ebay deals buying any of these used in good condition.

Another stovie! I looked into collecting but decided to get quite specific. Remote tank, liquid fuel, MSR's almost exclusively. They all get used some more often.


Other brands come and go from the pile, North American, Scandi, Oriental, and a couple French makers, gas, canister, alcohol. I'm not afraid to experiment and modify. Enough video tests to put a small city to sleep! Hope to bump into ya sometime and swap lies. Copia or a Wingnite?

butthead

butthead: "Another stovie! I looked into collecting but decided to get quite specific. Remote tank, liquid fuel, MSR's almost exclusively. They all get used some more often.

Other brands come and go from the pile, North American, Scandi, Oriental, and a couple French makers, gas, canister, alcohol. I'm not afraid to experiment and modify. Enough video tests to put a small city to sleep! Hope to bump into ya sometime and swap lies. Copia or a Wingnite?
butthead"

I'm curious to know since you have both, is there any considerable difference between the simmerlite and the windpro aside from the end of the fuel line?

I've often wondered since they're so similar why MSR went canister only with it and didn't come up with a universal fitting like the whisperlite... Only reason I can think of is that they couldn't find a common jet size that made both fuels work and the design doesn't allow you to easily swap jets/orifices.

The jets are easy to change out in both The Simmerlite and the WindPro only difference is the Windpro jet has a larger orifice needed to get higher heat output from canister fuel. I have run the Simmerlite on canister with a homemade adapter. The Windpro is way too rich with Coleman fuel, big nasty yellow flame. At the time the Simmerlite was for sale MSR had the Rapidfire canister fuel stove, a Whsiperlite using canister. Simmerlite had a habit of being sensitive to the amount of prime, easy ot use too much. Rapidfire was a very good stove but much heavier, almost 4 ounces, than the canister stoves coming out, specifically the Windpro 1. Whisperlite Universal made jet changes easier, no more loose support legs.
Simmerlite
Windpro 1 disassembled
Rapidfire

butthead

Guest Wimp: "BTW BW’ers should try the simple Truite au bleu preparation, it can be great, and fast. Of course the right wine and truffles make it better, but it is good and fast using a simple court bouillon rather than a more complex stock.
And mushroom season here, omg. French friends and family come over and go up with us, it is an annual tradition. World-class! Don’t tell anybody."

taking notes. and don't worry i won't tell anybody.

I am a fan of the optimus 8r...i bought mine back in 77 or so. Still have, love it, and take it with me everywhere...even on my trips in bw. Going again this fall and the 8r will be with me once again .....only cooking for four this time! ??

I have two simmerlites, a Winpro and a rapid fire. Always liked the simmerlites but they don’t simmer! Also seem to use more fuel than average. Also get very sooty after priming. But has been reliable over years and worked decent in winter conditions. If you’re OK with canisters the windpros are pretty much perfect.

Butthead- Nice firefly! Don’t see many of those around!

Thanks! It's a loud bugger, more than a Dragonfly, so it got a silent cap.
Whisperlites are louder than the Simmerlites, Simmerlites don't simmer, MSR maketing at work, or was it REI!

butthead

BH, I love my Dragonfly. The heat control alone is outstanding. Gotta shout at my buddies while using it. I haven't gotten the sound dampener yet, is it worth it?

If I solo, I usually go with my jetboil and do dehydrated food...nothing easier than that.

Video on a silent cap, Omni Cap on my Dragonfly. Long at 13 minutes, but shows lighting and running. That is not a Dragon Tamer (5 rows of holes), but an Omni Cap with 6 rows. It will fold on my Dragonfly with a bit of trimming. Is it worth it? I'm not sure. It is very quiet but is more fussy about lighting and complicates jet maintenance some. Hard to get simpler than the roarer burner plate.

butthead

TIMMY: "Butthead- Nice firefly! Don’t see many of those around!"

Is that the back right with red fuel line? Was going to ask what that one was in the picture, the rest are familiar.

I love the names too BH. Whisperlite isn't very quiet and simmerlite as kinda hard to simmer at times.

30 years and running very well. Swapped the old fuel line with new and red fiberglass cover, often used with a BD MidiCap to quiet it some. It takes the most time to heat to operating temperatures but then heats with the same authority of any XGK or other stove I have. Got a straight but stained windshield for it, but that is easily bent so gets little use.

butthead

Thanks to this thread I got a "new" stove. I love the Apex ii stove from Coleman. but it has not been made for decades. One of the members here registered what I wrote, and I got for just the shipping costs. Thank you! The stove works fine and when we are considering the age (made before 2000) the only service needed is to replace 2 O-rings. The o-ring on the pump was brittle but I borrowed the one from the cap. I minor gasoline leak on the regulation spindle is not big problem as long as it is seen and replaced before next use. I have ordered spares.

I just ave to say thank you for the stove, it will be used!

And for all others here remember, stoves need a little maintenance, especially when they become some years. The old stoves was made to last, the newer are less serviceable.

dsk

Glad it sees use in other hands!

butthead

dsk: "Thanks to this thread I got a "new" stove. I love the Apex ii stove from Coleman. but it has not been made for decades. One of the members here registered what I wrote, and I got for just the shipping costs. Thank you! The stove works fine and when we are considering the age (made before 2000) the only service needed is to replace 2 O-rings. The o-ring on the pump was brittle but I borrowed the one from the cap. I minor gasoline leak on the regulation spindle is not big problem as long as it is seen and replaced before next use. I have ordered spares.


I just ave to say thank you for the stove, it will be used!


And for all others here remember, stoves need a little maintenance, especially when they become some years. The old stoves was made to last, the newer are less serviceable.


dsk"

I have a few old coleman's that I am retiring. I took them both camping last year, one failed (the leather cup dried out), the other still worked fine. But, the one that failed got me to thinking, both of these are like 35 years old. One had a bad o-ring 20 years ago that led me to eat cold spam sandwiches for 2 days with the bonus of ruining some other gear.

I'm gonna try some canister stoves this year. I bought a pocketrocket 2 and was only going to take 1 stove. Its heater element is small that I feared it would burn food in the middle. Then I get the Superfly that has the bigger element. Now I can take both since the stoves themselves weigh nothing and use the pocketrocket for heating water and the superfly for more traditional menus.

A fan of the Dragonfly as well.

Today the Viton o-rings came, and the stove works nice again.

Of-course an old stove may need the o.ring check, and the on/off valve works nice with a 3x2mm oring. The bottle/pump o-ring 26.7x 1.78mm fits too.

I bought them from oringsandmore.com

I jut tried to boil 1/2 liter (approx 1 pint) and boiled it in 3 minutes.

dsk

Boy, I’ve loved my dragonfly. I eventually got the “tamer” but besides the quieting I like the better flame distribution. I also like having a canister or two with a pocket rocket type stove for quick coffee or something depending on length of trip and such. With any stove I think a key is to go through and make sure everything is working good and all. It doesn’t hurt to bring a small repair kit. Mainly the silicone lubricant... and possibly a couple o rings.

By the way, all white gas stoves I have tested runs on canister fuel. Sometimes a little tricky until it has become hot (beyond preheat temp).

I have done some "Don't Try This at Home" tests. I filled the Coleman 400A with butane. (from freezer)

When it came to normal temp, it was running OK, when I gave it a few pumps it was running great.

Later I made hose with canister valve for an Apex stove, and that is actually an easy and good alternative.

dsk

dsk: "By the way, all white gas stoves I have tested runs on canister fuel. Sometimes a little tricky until it has become hot (beyond preheat temp).


I have done some "Don't Try This at Home" tests. I filled the Coleman 400A with butane. (from freezer)


When it came to normal temp, it was running OK, when I gave it a few pumps it was running great.


Later I made hose with canister valve for an Apex stove, and that is actually an easy and good alternative.


dsk"

Yes it's because canister or gaseous fuels use larger jets on average. The smaller jets on liquid fueled stoves will work just not as high a specific output. I have tried the other way around and mostly it's not good. Too rich with large yellow flames.

butthead

Dragonfly's on sale at Cabelas

What fuel canister sizes do u all take on trips, solo and groups?
Do you take 2 20's on solos just to have a back up?

20's??

Only see 4-8-16 ounces or 113-227-454 grams, or is that a Texas special? On a week+ solo I'll take a single 8 ounce, and a rarely used 4 ounce for extra/backup. But will cook over a fire if possible.

butthead

Are these the fuel bottles you use?

AmarilloJim: "What fuel canister sizes do u all take on trips, solo and groups?
Do you take 2 20's on solos just to have a back up?"

Sorry, meant to say bottles

Ok, makes sense now. I only take a 11 ounce MSR bottle for a week, filled with less than 10 ounces. That's more than I use, I can get a broken pump working to run the burner, so no spare needed.
Interesting point what I carry for a week either liquid in the 11 ounce or a canister setup primarily 8 ounce canister, the full canister weighs the same as the bottle pump and fuel. And cook the same amount of foodstuffs. That is a consistent result for over a decade of trips.

As pointed to by others I am conservative (in the excess??), in my food consumption. Your mileage will vary!

butthead

AmarilloJim: " Dragonfly's on sale at Cabelas"

Thanks! I've got one of these coming, after $10 coupon I had in the mail it's getting shipped for less than $90 including tax. Now....do I run her stock or do some sort of tamer?

Stock it's a loud bugger. But you know it is running and how high it is adjusted. Simple prime and light starting, with use you'll get to vastly reduce the amount of prime and therefor flame, substantially. Very easy access to the jet for cleaning.

With a silencer it is reasonably quiet. Quiet enough to almost need visual confirmation of it's temp setting and operation. Lighting is more involved, prime to heat up, let it burn out, light right off the flame jets on the cap. This is needed to prevent under-burn, flame burning inside the cap, which is hazardous. The cap may or may not seat tightly, some folks recomend wiring the cap in place. This make accessing the jet for maintenance more difficult. It adds some weight.

Lighting

butthead

Thanks, sounds like I'll go stock for now and see how we like it. I think all my MSR liquid stoves are kinda loud to at least a degree (along with old Peak 1's and Svea 123 and stuff) so I guess I don't mind the sound. Kind of a mini jet engine by the firepit trying to boil some water....

AmarilloJim: " Dragonfly's on sale at Cabelas"

Okay, this thread convinced me to buy a Dragonfly stove. Anybody have any ideas how to carry/protect it inside my pack?

I have very seldom worried about it. It's solidly built and quite rugged. It will fit in a 1.4 liter pot, and a few tall 1 liter, but I prefer to use that space for food. I've just normally put it with the rest of the cook gear, fuel bottle in an ouside pocket. I keep the pump in the fuel bottle with a cut soda bottle protector on top.

butthead

greywolf33: "

AmarilloJim: " Dragonfly's on sale at Cabelas"

Okay, this thread convinced me to buy a Dragonfly stove. Anybody have any ideas how to carry/protect it inside my pack?"

If you take a blue barrel or 5-gal buckets it could go in one of those