So I'm feeling my age. I actually aborted a trip last June due to a bad night of sleeping. A panic attack of sorts, where I felt strangely claustrophobic and had trouble breathing. No external reason for being fearful. Good temperatures and calm weather. Settled myself down but couldn't bring myself to do another night. Packed our stuff and went home. Embarrassing and disappointing but very real.

A separate issue is that of experiencing back aches from too much sitting, hip aches from too much walking, and boredom from terrible fishing and wondering how to fill the hours of the long days without increasing the canoe time or portage time. And yet...strangely...I want to go back and give it another try.

Suggestions? I've been doing this for over 30 years and don't want to call it quits.

I’ve had great luck with CBD oil for all of those issues. Can get it at most nutrition stores. Great for calming and inflammation. An inversion table for back issues works well. On trips I always set aside a few hours each day to sit in a hammock and watch a bobber. We don’t really set daily goals on travel days so if we want to stop we do. Hope this helps.

Mike

Sounds like you may have been dehydrated.

Are you going to the same places? If so, maybe some place you haven't been yet. Add a little adventure.

Not sure how old you are and getting old is surely no contest, but there are a lot of us older and very proud of it paddlers here. Most of us probably have stories like yours, and mine. After aborting a trip several years ago I recognized that the only barrier to having a good time was taking better care of myself. And since I have been taking better care of myself I am having a better time nearly every day and have no worry about a good time on a trip. You might need medical assistance and I swear by my physical therapist and regular massage that helped get me loosened up and have greater success with the be healthy program.

Panic attacks happen without rhyme or reason, seemingly. You went with your impulse to abort. I believe that has some validity. We don't always know why the sudden urge to do some things but sometimes there's an underlying 'feeling' that tells us to move on a thought.
(Jokingly) You may have saved yourself from an ugly encounter with BigFoot.
(not Joking) You may have avoided a mishap of some sort a.k.a. divine intervention. who knows?

Most of us older folks share one thing in common: aching body parts on almost a daily basis, if not daily.
My 2 cents of advice: Time for a paddling partner/canoeing buddy on your trips with maybe a solo between here and there. Having company in camp changes the dynamics.

Stay in shape - year-'round. Stay active. It's amazing what that staves off.
Another things is to not refer to yourself as an old timer until you are one.
State of mind is important.
I'm not saying to live in denial, just don't do yourself a disservice.
A canoe trip is physical. Be up to the task.

KarlBAndersen1: "Stay in shape - year-'round. Stay active. It's amazing what that staves off.
Another things is to not refer to yourself as an old timer until you are one.
State of mind is important.
I'm not saying to live in denial, just don't do yourself a disservice.
A canoe trip is physical. Be up to the task."

Great points. It's my belief that how we perceive ourself will always be a self fullfilled prophesy. We are either growing or in a state of decline. We control our thoughts, don't ever let yourself believe that your are "old". Here's a fantastic book on the subject. What to say when you talk to yourself

About staying in shape - I have a very physical job 9 months out of the year. The three months where I hardly work takes me very little time to lose muscle mass built up over the summer. It's this time where I get all kinds of aches and pains. When I'm in top shape I feel great with hardly any body aches.

Here's what to do. Get on a daily program of doing something for at least an hour. Maybe weights 4 days and walking/running the other three. Install this habit for three months in a row without fail and see how you feel. Then, you just keep it going and plan canoe trips like the "young" days.

I'm 67 and getting older, not unusual is it!
Long time soloist when hunting, fishing, camping, backpacking, and canoe tripping. I've experienced similar feelings and chuck them up to karma telling me something. Not terribly superstitious but if I get there and do not feel good about going further I'll turn back and hedge on the side of safety. I can always go again at a latter date. Several comments about being in shape and states of mind, and while good they are no replacement for a certain level of caution applied to all things. Seems to me some famous character said "A man's gotta know his limitations". It is good advise and applies to all genders and age groups.
Nothing has prevented me from going, not age for sure, but I have slowed some and take more time about things. Yet I keep discovering new things (or maybe something I knew and forgot)!

butthead

Double post another sign of age, normally catch that sooner.

butthead

Thanks, everyone. It's me again...the "old-timer." I'm 62 and have done easy trips and hard trips...usually with just my paddling partner and me. I am a runner (3-5 miles 3-4 times per week, and usually bike on the "off" days. I see a physical therapist regularly to keep back, neck, and hips in working order, but sitting in the canoe is still getting harder and harder to do for long spells. That one is an easy fix: just don't sit so long. Trips with shorter (or fewer) portages can also be arranged. But the middle-of-the-night panic attacks are the big thing. Strange thing was: my paddling partner woke up the first morning (Fall Lake campground) with an excruciating jaw ache and wasn't sure we should even venture into the BWCA (that first night was fine for me). He had previously had some cancer in the jaw and was afraid this was related. We decided to stop at the FIRST campsite on Lake One (how tame can you get?), and that very first night in the BWCA was horrific. I was hoping my partner would wake up and say he was worse and that we should go home. Instead, he said he was feeling much better, and I had to break the news that I couldn't do another night. I'm a believer in facing my fears, but this was an experience that has me second-guessing myself. I'm wondering about the dehydration idea and will work on that. Otherwise, any other advice--especially from someone who has experienced this--is much appreciated.

i have had anxiety issues my entire life. i have had moments in canoe country where i felt like aborting. now as i am older and have recognized that most of it is in my head, i have come to manage the anxiety better.
i have done over 30 solo trips, most great, some not so, it's how it goes, but i look forward to each new year to do it again.
yes, cbd oil is good. it relaxes me.
magnesium is something to be taken as well, as we are all deficient. it has a calming effect.
what is there to fear, BUT fear itself. it is a great saying.
what is the worst thing that could happen?
worry, worry, worry. quite frankly, i am sick of it! thanks for reading.

Old-timer-

One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.

Good Luck

OCDave: "Old-timer-


One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.
Good Luck"

Accept your age, and what your body can still do. One must learn to find a new activity once you aren't able to handle many things you used to do. All good things come to an end even though some fight it.

For pain, I swear by travel size foam roller. I have not taken it on canoe trips but use it at home all the time. OMG-Seriously like a spa treatment. You can google how to use them. I take one on long plane rides and shamelessly roll out my neck/back. Sweet!

Did you drink caffeinated drinks? Not enough water (as others have said)? Have you had a tragedy/life change that could have caused nightmares you don't remember? Have you been having health issues that make you feel more vulnerable?

I know it is hard to do, but breathing is KEY. Everything follows the breath. Deep breathing slows the heart rate, the brain waves. Visualization and meditation are great, also. I use lots of breathing tricks.

Anyway, just keep going. You might have to modify things as people have said, such as take more people, go somewhere new, use more communication safety things, go for a shorter time for awhile, etc. You might want to think about what thoughts you had during the panic attack to identify some 'real' things affecting your trip.

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "Old-timer-
All good things come to an end even though some fight it."

I have two canoe trips and an archery elk hunt in Utah this year.
I'm 65 and I will fight it until I lose.

Thanks much.

I decided a few years ago to abstain from caffeine on the drive up--and actually I don't normally have that much anyway--and that has helped the mid-trip withdrawal "ickies." As far as life events, yes, there have been some negative experiences in the last 8 years especially...that will be some food for thought. And I do tend to have more vivid...but not always negative...dreams when I'm out camping. This last experience also included being super-sensitive to the cold air I was breathing or feeling on any exposed skin, but bothered by difficulty breathing if I covered my face within my sleeping bag, AND the feeling of claustrophobia caused by being trapped in my bag. Breathing through my nose felt constricted and breathing through my mouth caused dryness. No win situation. Drives a person to drink and drugs.

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "Old-timer-



One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.
Good Luck"

Accept your age, and what your body can still do. One must learn to find a new activity once you aren't able to handle many things you used to do. All good things come to an end even though some fight it."

Accept your age and what your body can still do? That's a terrible philosophy to live by. There are too many interventions to improve one's health and quality of life to accept a diminished life. My bet is there are a significant number of members here with Pacemakers, Coronary stents, artificial joints which allow them to live a fuller life. Thyroid hormone pills or insulin injections keep people alive when their own bodies can't. Don't accept "OK" when "Better" is an option.

All good things will come to an end .... sooner or later.... I'll go with later thanks.

langfam: "...

... Drives a person to drink and drugs."

Often street drugs and alcohol are self-medicating a problem for which a safer, more effective prescription medication therapy exists.

Consult you family MD.

OCDave: "

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "Old-timer-
One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.
Good Luck"

Accept your age, and what your body can still do. One must learn to find a new activity once you aren't able to handle many things you used to do. All good things come to an end even though some fight it."

Accept your age and what your body can still do? That's a terrible philosophy to live by. There are too many interventions to improve one's health and quality of life to accept a diminished life. My bet is there are a significant number of members here with Pacemakers, Coronary stents, artificial joints which allow them to live a fuller life. Thyroid hormone pills or insulin injections keep people alive when their own bodies can't. Don't accept "OK" when "Better" is an option.
All good things will come to an end .... sooner or later.... I'll go with later thanks."

Yup, got them all so I can speak from experience when I say all good things come to an end. In fact, I dropped dead on August 29th, but was fortunate enough to have had a Defibrillator put in 9 years earlier because of heart problems from Agent Orange that brought me back. (It was replaced the next day with a CRT-D pacemaker/defib combo!
Whatever happens to a person is normally beyond their control most of the time.
When (not if) it happens to you, no matter what age, accept it. Go with, "been there, done it!" :)

Just reached the ripe old age of 68 a little over a month ago. Here are two quotes that come to mind as I contemplate my Spring solo:

"Refuse to let an old person move into your body." - Unknown

"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?" - Satchel Paige

gkimball: "Just reached the ripe old age of 68 a little over a month ago. Here are two quotes that come to mind as I contemplate my Spring solo:

"Refuse to let an old person move into your body." - Unknown
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?" - Satchel Paige
"

Staying in shape is hard work that most people aren't willing to do. They chalk up their body aches to old age and resign themselves to more sedentary pursuits. It can be turned around but you have to really want it. I love planning for canoe trips because it gives me motivation to eat right and put in the exercise time. If I don't, I know I'll struggle on the trip. I'll be exhausted and in pain from portaging and I'll cramp up from sitting in the canoe.

Ask yourself this - Am I doing all that I can to be ready physically for the trip I have planned this year? It takes motivation to really do it (work out/eat right) on a consistent basis. Here is a great book on the subject of self motivation. Mach 2: The Art of Vision and Self Motivation

Here's a review by John Elway.

"I found a copy of Mach2 at a friend s house last year. I read and loved it. So much of what the great athletes do to accomplish the impossible is done though visualization. Richard captures exactly how it works; why it works; and how anyone can use it to do great things in their life. Richard has a unique way of telling the story so we really all get it! I highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to master their own motivation and accomplishments. --John Elway, NFL Hall of Fame Quarterback"

The Great Outdoors: "Yup, got them all so I can speak from experience when I say all good things come to an end. In fact, I dropped dead on August 29th, but was fortunate enough to have had a Defibrillator put in 9 years earlier because of heart problems from Agent Orange that brought me back. (It was replaced the next day with a CRT-D pacemaker/defib combo!
Whatever happens to a person is normally beyond their control most of the time.
When (not if) it happens to you, no matter what age, accept it. Go with, "been there, done it!" :)
"

It sounds as if you don't want to take credit for the "CONTROL" you exercised over your own destiny.

I reread the original post and somehow missed the indication that you did have a buddy at the time of the incident. ("Packed OUR stuff and went home.")
Anyway, I hope his jaw is fine and it's not what he feared.

I have a close friend who has panic attacks. The 'needless fretting' to my eyes is quite real & painful in his own skin. He's taken on meditation (not medication) and it has helped him. Not 100% but he's got a good grip on control now.

at OCDave: Yikes! on August 29th.

OCDave: "

The Great Outdoors: "Yup, got them all so I can speak from experience when I say all good things come to an end. In fact, I dropped dead on August 29th, but was fortunate enough to have had a Defibrillator put in 9 years earlier because of heart problems from Agent Orange that brought me back. (It was replaced the next day with a CRT-D pacemaker/defib combo!
Whatever happens to a person is normally beyond their control most of the time.
When (not if) it happens to you, no matter what age, accept it. Go with, "been there, done it!" :)
"

It sounds as if you don't want to take credit for the "CONTROL" you exercised over your own destiny. "

My point was there comes a time that stuff happens, no matter what you do to prevent it and the activities you once enjoyed are no more.
No use in mourning over it, happens to everyone-some sooner than others. :)

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "

The Great Outdoors: "Yup, got them all so I can speak from experience when I say all good things come to an end. In fact, I dropped dead on August 29th, but was fortunate enough to have had a Defibrillator put in 9 years earlier because of heart problems from Agent Orange that brought me back. (It was replaced the next day with a CRT-D pacemaker/defib combo!
Whatever happens to a person is normally beyond their control most of the time.
When (not if) it happens to you, no matter what age, accept it. Go with, "been there, done it!" :)
"

It sounds as if you don't want to take credit for the "CONTROL" you exercised over your own destiny. "

My point was there comes a time that stuff happens, no matter what you do to prevent it and the activities you once enjoyed are no more.
No use in mourning over it, happens to everyone-some sooner than others. :)"

My point is that if you give up and just accept that there is nothing to be done then, you are done. You survived 8/29 because you took preemtive action. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post but, your advice to langfam seemed to be; "Nothing you can do, just accept your fate". Clearly, you are a prefect example of NOT accepting your fate, of fighting the effects of aging and survival. I hope langfam follows your example and not your advice.

Have a great day, and many more.

langfam: "So I'm feeling my age. I actually aborted a trip last June due to a bad night of sleeping. A panic attack of sorts, where I felt strangely claustrophobic and had trouble breathing. No external reason for being fearful. Good temperatures and calm weather. Settled myself down but couldn't bring myself to do another night. Packed our stuff and went home. Embarrassing and disappointing but very real.

A separate issue is that of experiencing back aches from too much sitting, hip aches from too much walking, and boredom from terrible fishing and wondering how to fill the hours of the long days without increasing the canoe time or portage time. And yet...strangely...I want to go back and give it another try.

Suggestions? I've been doing this for over 30 years and don't want to call it quits."

Langfam - I've read this thread and don't necessarily think your issues actually have anything to do with age.

Regarding the panic attack-esque situation (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't), I think that could happen to anyone at any age. It's a specific phenomenon and can happen to people young and old. Research and talk to a doctor. Maybe some medication before bed in the woods can salvage your trips.

As far as the rest of your complaint - the sore back, boredom, etc...I think that's very normal on these trips. They are long days and we all don't always feel the greatest out there. We get annoyed by our trip partners, pissed that the fish aren't biting, grumpy about camp chores, etc.....I guess it's just a matter of putting all that in perspective and realizing it's better than a day in the office or whatever, and deciding to have a good time. Add 10x to that if the weather is bad. Maybe try different activities - cards, chess - we play bocce ball with rocks actually.

In any event, get a good camp chair if you don't already have one. Possibly the best piece of equipment I own and makes those hours with little to do a lot more comfortable.

And who knows, maybe it's just not your thing anymore.

Positive self talk is very important. I believe it is a truism that faith filled words are the most powerful thing on the planet and can bring into reality that which doesn't yet exist. You can call those things which are not as though they are and make/create your own reality.

And I would make my admissions out loud and in spite of how I "feel". I would take authority over any spirit of fear and anxiety and do so loudly and continuously. Speak that which you desire into existence. It may seem silly but stand in front of a mirror and confess aloud that which it is that you desire. "I reject panic attacks, I have not been given the spirit of fear but rather a sound mind" Etc. This needs to become a habit, at least 3 times a day regardless of how you feel about such a seemingly simplistic endeavor. No drugs, no doctors just faith filled words...........speak that which you desire into reality.

The book, "The power of positive thinking" might be a great self help tool and more fully explains what I am so poorly attempting to say. What you need is a renewing of the mind. Naturally as a Christian I believe that the power of God aids in this renewal process but the general "law" of confession, that is, the words you speak, is still in place regardless. If you continually speak words of acceptance about "your" panic attacks then it will find a root and even in some instances grow. Never claim your fears and anxieties as your own.........rather reject them and speak aloud continuously against them.

Are you financially stretched? Instead of complaining how nothing ever works out for you and "i am always broke" began to proclaim aloud how blessed and wealthy you are. No friends? Begin to proclaim aloud how glad you are for good friends. Health not so good? Proclaim how grateful you are for your health and how you will be improving day by day. Watch your words..........always speak positive and encouraging words. On this planet words have much power.

A last thought........have you considered sleeping in something other than a tent? Perhaps a screened tarp? Or sleeping without the rainfly on nights which permit such?

mastertangler: "Positive self talk is very important. I believe it is a truism that faith filled words are the most powerful thing on the planet and can bring into reality that which doesn't yet exist. You can call those things which are not as though they are and make/create your own reality.


And I would make my admissions out loud and in spite of how I "feel". I would take authority over any spirit of fear and anxiety and do so loudly and continuously. Speak that which you desire into existence. It may seem silly but stand in front of a mirror and confess aloud that which it is that you desire. "I reject panic attacks, I have not been given the spirit of fear but rather a sound mind" Etc. This needs to become a habit, at least 3 times a day regardless of how you feel about such a seemingly simplistic endeavor. No drugs, no doctors just faith filled words...........speak that which you desire into reality.


The book, "The power of positive thinking" might be a great self help tool and more fully explains what I am so poorly attempting to say. What you need is a renewing of the mind. Naturally as a Christian I believe that the power of God aids in this renewal process but the general "law" of confession, that is, the words you speak, is still in place regardless. If you continually speak words of acceptance about "your" panic attacks then it will find a root and even in some instances grow. Never claim your fears and anxieties as your own.........rather reject them and speak aloud continuously against them.

Are you financially stretched? Instead of complaining how nothing ever works out for you and "i am always broke" began to proclaim aloud how blessed and wealthy you are. No friends? Begin to proclaim aloud how glad you are for good friends. Health not so good? Proclaim how grateful you are for your health and how you will be improving day by day. Watch your words..........always speak positive and encouraging words. On this planet words have much power.


A last thought........have you considered sleeping in something other than a tent? Perhaps a screened tarp? Or sleeping without the rainfly on nights which permit such?
"

+1

Thanks. 2 years ago, when I had a less-severe panic experience during a severe thunderstorm, playing my Christian music on my mp3 player really helped calm me down. Last year I used the music preemptively and found it not only to be not helpful, it too was annoying. I WANT to return to the BWCA in my heart and mind, and I know the attacks are irrational, so I am appreciating every piece of advice that anyone gives.

I have panic attacks. With my first, I literally panicked about the panic.

Now I self-coach: "It's okay. Everything's fine. Nothing is wrong."

They're merely annoying now.

L-theanine is really good at stopping panic attacks and for anxiety. It is made from green tea leaves. Here is a good brand if you are interested

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "Old-timer-



One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.
Good Luck"

Accept your age, and what your body can still do. One must learn to find a new activity once you aren't able to handle many things you used to do. All good things come to an end even though some fight it."

If I get any worse I’m opening a bait shop!

nctry: "

The Great Outdoors: "

OCDave: "Old-timer-



One additional option: see your MD. Our aging bodies lose reserves to fight off the stuff our younger bodies handled easily. Our joints fail when our muscles lose strength, our immune system weakens, our hormones wane. Perhaps you always had some anxiety your younger self simply handled. If the problem persists, many medication options are available.
Good Luck"!$/i
If I get any worse I’m opening a bait shop! "

Too bad you didn't buy mine!!
It sold last Monday at noon, please give the young guy that bought it the same support that many on this site gave me for 34 years!!!!!
Now I can fish the opener for the first time in 34 years. :)

missmolly: "I have panic attacks. With my first, I literally panicked about the panic.


Now I self-coach: "It's okay. Everything's fine. Nothing is wrong."


They're merely annoying now. "

Panic attacks can happen anytime. Kinda a form of shock. We’ve responded to calls where not only do you have a patient suffering a stroke or whatever and a family member is having a panic type attack. Sometimes so bad we have to treat them too. Like Miss Molly I was is sort of a shock when I cut my finger on a table saw. I was at Virginia hospital. They weren’t going to let me ride with a friend to Duluth because of the shock factor. I was able to talk myself out of it. They came into my room ready to transport me and could instantly see I was better and let me ride with my friend Vi from Spring Creek Outfitters. Got my finger loped while she visited her daughter. And home I went.
You’ve had some great advise on this sort of thing. Big thing is not to have trip outside your comfortability meter. And sometimes talking yourself down is a good experience in itself. In an emergency situation oxygen usually helps... so breathing right is important. I’ve had situations I thought there is no way I’m going to make it. Best thing is to just breathe good and find ways to relax your mind.

nctry: " And sometimes talking yourself down is a good experience in itself. In an emergency situation oxygen usually helps... so breathing right is important. I’ve had situations I thought there is no way I’m going to make it. Best thing is to just breathe good and find ways to relax your mind. "

Great point. I think getting your body moving would also help. Do jumping jacks then slow deep breathing with good positive self talk. Remember, FEAR means False Evidence Appearing Real.

That said, it's not easy to do when you hear large branches snapping in the forest after dark. :)

Ben is right about breathing. In demanding situations, I sometimes find that I'm holding my breath: Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Are you able to do a 'warmup' trip in advance of your BW trip?

I have a backpacker buddy who I have immense respect for, who uses this method before every 'big trip'. One year it was just taking his 4 YO kid to a state park for an overniter. Other years, its a weekend trip with a newbie hiker. He swears it helps him get his head right for the backcountry expeditions that he lives for.