True North Map Co.

Has anyone seen one yet? Worthy alternative for some maps? Filling a real void or trying to create one? I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on accuracy also.

I saw the BWCA.com email and checked 'em out. They seem interesting! The print is supposed to be very well-etched into the fabric, with no flaking or breaking off or wearing away. They also have rings in the corners for tying to your thwart or whatever. I decided to buy a few to compare to my Fisher and McKenzie maps. They're not cheap so I'm hoping they're good, but they definitely look decent.

VaderStrom: "https://www.truenorthmapco.com/

Has anyone seen one yet? Worthy alternative for some maps? Filling a real void or trying to create one? I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on accuracy also."

Don't forget to use the Add a link to this message function. Pretty easy to use, but if you need help, just ask.

Thanks. I wanted to leave the full url in case folks wanted to have it for future reference.

I also checked them out. They look interesting, I will wait for some reviews I think.

Link True North Map Co.

Right away, looking at some of their thumbs, appears they're missing depths for lakes that have depths on other maps. E.g. check out Map 1 with the lakes just south of La Croix. That's something I do like and feel like I use when available.

I do like them being made from Tyvek (or whatever similar fabric they are).

Hey Guys,

Joe and Jerod here from True North Map Company,

We wanted to introduce ourselves in this thread and make ourselves available for questions about our new Canoe Maps. We understand the importance of navigating along with the contours of each lake and river and checking off campsites and landmarks along the way. Especially on the larger lakes. The desire was to create a map that was easily accessible without the need to have it in a case. Having been a part of this community for many years we are looking forward to connecting with you. We know the people in the boundary waters community are a great group of people and that we all share a common love of this wonderful wilderness. We are excited to hear your feedback and questions as we move forward. We know that no map is perfect, but we want to strive to make the most accurate and most usable map for the BWCA. Thanks for helping create this wonderful community where we can all help each other plan and execute life long trip memories.

1) Tombo131. You are correct we only have lake depths for some of the lakes at this point.
2) The material we use for our Canoe Maps is a poly/blend microfiber cloth. It has a lot of great qualities to it. UPF 50, wicks moisture, soft feel, very durable, machine washable, and allows for incredible detail for printing. Our Wall Maps are printed on plain white Tyvek.
Feel free to ask us questions about our maps and we will try and respond to them in a timely matter.

Sincerely,

Joe and Jerod
True North Map Company.

I really like the idea of the material and they look sharp!

Some feedback I have would be to allow an option to select a map area to print off. As it always seems to happen a lot of trips end up with half of your route on one map and half on another where you could get away with a single map if you could choose the frame yourself. This is one of the main reasons I switched to a paid "make your own map" solution. Other reasons being choosing my own datum, grid overlay (I like UTM), and scale/zoom.

keth0601: "I really like the idea of the material and they look sharp!


Some feedback I have would be to allow an option to select a map area to print off. As it always seems to happen a lot of trips end up with half of your route on one map and half on another where you could get away with a single map if you could choose the frame yourself. This is one of the main reasons I switched to a paid "make your own map" solution. Other reasons being choosing my own datum, grid overlay (I like UTM), and scale/zoom."

I was thinking the same thing but I like that these are not creased like folding maps and you can basically fold these to show only your route. But how to keep that "shape" so to speak. I suppose you could slide it in to a plastic sleeve and be all set. Just thinking how to to best use them.

keth0601: "I really like the idea of the material and they look sharp!


Some feedback I have would be to allow an option to select a map area to print off. As it always seems to happen a lot of trips end up with half of your route on one map and half on another where you could get away with a single map if you could choose the frame yourself. This is one of the main reasons I switched to a paid "make your own map" solution. Other reasons being choosing my own datum, grid overlay (I like UTM), and scale/zoom."

I was thinking the same thing but I like that these are not creased like folding maps and you can basically fold these to show only your route. But how to keep that "shape" so to speak. I suppose you could slide it in to a plastic sleeve and be all set. Just thinking how to to best use them.

Hey Guys - great product - I have some website feedback.

It is challenging to figure out which maps I need for my specific loop - as is I have to click on every single map, zoom in, then click back out, then go to the next map, repeat. What if you had a big single map of the whole BWCA on the page - and you could hover over sections that linked to each map of that specific area. It would save a lot of time navigating.

Hard to explain, hope you understand what I mean.

They have a page right on their site called "Which Map?" that has exactly what you're talking about. :)

True North Map 'Which Map'

scotttimm: "Hey Guys - great product - I have some website feedback.


It is challenging to figure out which maps I need for my specific loop - as is I have to click on every single map, zoom in, then click back out, then go to the next map, repeat. What if you had a big single map of the whole BWCA on the page - and you could hover over sections that linked to each map of that specific area. It would save a lot of time navigating.


Hard to explain, hope you understand what I mean."

I just finally found it. So - it's a navigation thing. Weird - when I first went to the page, I went to maps, then to Boundary Waters maps - then shop...and it went to the page of icons...maybe I just surf differently and didn't get to the which map page easily.

The wall map sounds cool...if only I didn't have a giant bwca wall map framed in our kitchen already.

Will the portages and campsites match another map company for data and location? I like to take at least 2 brands of the area we'll be in, in case there are descrepancies. Are these the same as fisher, Voyageur, McKenzie, etc? I know they aren't the same map, but is your data source the same as any of those?

I ordered 5 different maps this morning. I'm trying to cut weight and two of the items I'm going to leave behind are my bow bag and my map case/bag. The bags are handy but I find that I just bring more heavy gadgets with me and fill them up. I look forward to clipping these to my pfd with a lightweight carabiner and having them handy so I'm apt to use them more. I'll post a review in the next week or two.

Delete.

Interesting maps, thanks for sharing and best of luck to the new company!

One concern I have is regarding the data behind some of the trails. I see on BWCA Map 10 that the Pow Wow Trail East Loop is shown. I'm no expert, having not hiked it, but my understanding from reading Lost in the Wild is that this trail was closed, even before the Pagami Creek Fire. In fact, it was the remains of this old trail that contributed to Jason Rasmussen getting severely lost all those years ago. My McKenzie Map #19 only shows the western loop, which seems to be the only portion of the trail that has received trail clearing in recent years .

I haven't looked closely at the other maps, but I figured this was worth a mention.

Very interesting idea. Not sure if their printing process allows for custom maps but I had the same thought. I also noticed that the two new campsites on the north shore of Lake One are missing. Those sites are at least 2-3 years old and so sort of too bad to miss on a new product. But I do like the idea of no creases.

As a suggestion for the website, it would be good to have images that show a portion of each map and which make it easier to see the details.

I’ll probably get one for my wife for her birthday and then see if we want more.

Pricy but a lot of work went into them. Great job on creating the website. I was surprised to see a list of all lakes & EPs of any selected map.

I'm wondering if notations are an option on this fabric. That is, can one write on 'em. (campsite closures, campsites or portage mismarked, etc.

Not intended as a criticism but all map makers have a degree of small or outdated data. )

Thank you for working on making a new map for the BWCA. And I like the format of printing on a durable cloth.

So....when you going to have maps of Quetico?

I like the idea; will buy some. I like having my map out in front of me, but worry about how much water these will absorb. I guess I could always fold and put in my map case. I like the UPF50 - it would be nice if they were Insect Shield too like Buffs.

I second the request for Quetico...followed by other Ontario parks. (Okay, so I'm greedy.)

keth0601: "I really like the idea of the material and they look sharp!


Some feedback I have would be to allow an option to select a map area to print off. As it always seems to happen a lot of trips end up with half of your route on one map and half on another where you could get away with a single map if you could choose the frame yourself. This is one of the main reasons I switched to a paid "make your own map" solution. Other reasons being choosing my own datum, grid overlay (I like UTM), and scale/zoom."

Something to consider for the future. Our current process cant handle this, but we could think about modifying our cuts over time if there is a big demand for a different cut. Our maps do have UTM Grid.

scotttimm: "Hey Guys - great product - I have some website feedback.


It is challenging to figure out which maps I need for my specific loop - as is I have to click on every single map, zoom in, then click back out, then go to the next map, repeat. What if you had a big single map of the whole BWCA on the page - and you could hover over sections that linked to each map of that specific area. It would save a lot of time navigating.


Hard to explain, hope you understand what I mean."

Thanks for the feedback
We will try to make the "which map" button more obvious.
Note- "which map" Page is not available on the mobile version of the website. It proved to be unusable on smaller screens.

cyclones30: "The wall map sounds cool...if only I didn't have a giant bwca wall map framed in our kitchen already.


Will the portages and campsites match another map company for data and location? I like to take at least 2 brands of the area we'll be in, in case there are descrepancies. Are these the same as fisher, Voyageur, McKenzie, etc? I know they aren't the same map, but is your data source the same as any of those?"

Our Canoe Maps, like all the other maps have slight variations from one another. As far as we know from working closely with the USFS there really is only a single base dataset, and that all of the other maps use the same data. We are using the most up to date data but realize it is not perfect as campsites change and portage trails are adjusted. As customers provide feedback, and through our own experiences we plan to refine and continue to improve the accuracy of our map over time. We will strive to make it perfect.

You can provide that feedback to contact@truenorthmapco.com

Thanks

Northwoodsman: "I ordered 5 different maps this morning. I'm trying to cut weight and two of the items I'm going to leave behind are my bow bag and my map case/bag. The bags are handy but I find that I just bring more heavy gadgets with me and fill them up. I look forward to clipping these to my pfd with a lightweight carabiner and having them handy so I'm apt to use them more. I'll post a review in the next week or two."

Thanks for your order. We would love to hear what you think. Feel free to email us contact@truenorthmapco.com

eagle98mn: "Interesting maps, thanks for sharing and best of luck to the new company!


One concern I have is regarding the data behind some of the trails. I see on BWCA Map 10 that the Pow Wow Trail East Loop is shown. I'm no expert, having not hiked it, but my understanding from reading Lost in the Wild is that this trail was closed, even before the Pagami Creek Fire. In fact, it was the remains of this old trail that contributed to Jason Rasmussen getting severely lost all those years ago. My McKenzie Map #19 only shows the western loop, which seems to be the only portion of the trail that has received trail clearing in recent years .


I haven't looked closely at the other maps, but I figured this was worth a mention."

Thanks for your feedback

That is true, however, working with one of the primary individuals leading the pow wow trail clearing efforts, we were specifically asked to keep the East Loop on the map, as they plan to continue their clearing efforts and hopefully re-open that loop

andym: "Very interesting idea. Not sure if their printing process allows for custom maps but I had the same thought. I also noticed that the two new campsites on the north shore of Lake One are missing. Those sites are at least 2-3 years old and so sort of too bad to miss on a new product. But I do like the idea of no creases.


As a suggestion for the website, it would be good to have images that show a portion of each map and which make it easier to see the details.


I’ll probably get one for my wife for her birthday and then see if we want more. "

The base dataset that we use comes from various government agencies, and its definitely not perfect. It would be impossible to do this without using it as a base, We encourage as much feedback as we can get so we can continuously improve the accuracy of our maps. We hope to establish a transparent relationship with our customers. Love this community.

You can zoom in and preview each map by clicking on the thumb in our web store.
https://www.truenorthmapco.com/shop/BWCA-Canoe-Maps-c32319002

mjmkjun: "Pricy but a lot of work went into them. Great job on creating the website. I was surprised to see a list of all lakes & EPs of any selected map.

I'm wondering if notations are an option on this fabric. That is, can one write on 'em. (campsite closures, campsites or portage mismarked, etc.

Not intended as a criticism but all map makers have a degree of small or outdated data. )"

Thanks for your comment.

From our FAQ
For a permanent keepsake record you can use a fine tip Sharpie Marker to track your journey and memories. This will not wash off- but you can remember which campsites are your favorites and have a lasting memory of your trip.
For a temporary log, we use Crayola Washable Markers to plot a route, then wash it off for the next adventure.

Minnesotian: "
Thank you for working on making a new map for the BWCA. And I like the format of printing on a durable cloth.


So....when you going to have maps of Quetico?"

Thank you.

We do have a completed first draft of our Quetico series. We don’t have a firm date yet, but we’ll make them available as soon as they are ready. You can sing up to our news on the website to be the first to know when they are available.

TNMC: "You can provide that feedback to contact@truenorthmapco.com "

This should not be overlooked. So often I read or hear about how this map is wrong about X or some other map has Y in the completely wrong location, and they never seem to correct these mistakes. I don't know if no one is telling them or if they're just not listening? I feel like a new company is going to be far more receptive to feedback especially if it could mean being regarded as the most accurate among it's competition, so people should really help them out cuz they don't have professional cartographers covering every square inch of the bwca. If they did, I'd imagine their maps would be quite expensive.

boonie: "I like the idea; will buy some. I like having my map out in front of me, but worry about how much water these will absorb. I guess I could always fold and put in my map case. I like the UPF50 - it would be nice if they were Insect Shield too like Buffs. "

I also like having my map laid out in front of me either over a pack (they will not blow away) or secured to the thwart with the sewn in buttonholes. They absorb water but not enough to make them cumbersome and since they are a poly/blend they dry fast and wick moisture.

No insect shield yet but you can apply permethrin to the fabric and tie it around your neck or tuck it under your hat while at your campsite or while portaging.

mschi772: "

TNMC: "You can provide that feedback to contact@truenorthmapco.com "

This should not be overlooked. So often I read or hear about how this map is wrong about X or some other map has Y in the completely wrong location, and they never seem to correct these mistakes. I don't know if no one is telling them or if they're just not listening? I feel like a new company is going to be far more receptive to feedback especially if it could mean being regarded as the most accurate among it's competition, so people should really help them out cuz they don't have professional cartographers covering every square inch of the bwca. If they did, I'd imagine their maps would be quite expensive."

Thank you.

As we gather feedback we will work to cross reference and connect with USFS to make sure any changes we make are good and correct changes.

I like how the political boundary lines are minimal and don't obscure the navigation data the way some maps do: International boundary, BW boundary, National Forest Boundary, county lines, all blotting out the small islands and shorelines we need for navigation.

On the other hand, I use my map case for lots of functions: keeping my butt dry on wet sitting logs, serving as a lap top table for servicing hearing aids, and fanning dying embers in a stubborn fire. Yes, there are alternatives, but us old guys hate change.

Glad to see some innovation and progress in canoe gear. Hope these guys prosper.

I hope they do well, seems to be some good interest, my current maps are water proof so they can be folded and thrown in the bottom of the canoe, or put in a case and hung in front of me which works really well. Im to cheap to buy these but they do look cool, just not something i would have a need for.

I think it's a great idea, but then again I have a thing about maps.
Reminds me of the silk maps that WWII Aviators and crews carried. I intend to check them out at Canoecopia.
There's always something I pick up there that's a "want" not a "need". But trip maps are important and I just may need a map for this summer's trip.

TNMC: "That is true, however, working with one of the primary individuals leading the pow wow trail clearing efforts, we were specifically asked to keep the East Loop on the map, as they plan to continue their clearing efforts and hopefully re-open that loop"

Good to know - that will be something to watch for in the future. Thanks for taking the time to reply and best of luck with your new venture!

Will they have a booth at Canoecopia?

I'm a sucker for maps! Best of luck on the endeavor!

My mac doesn't load the map images with firefox or safari. I can click to the which map page but as soon as I click on a map number it doesn't load anything (presumably an image). Only the 10% off any order of $75 heading. It's probably a case where I'd need a plug-in update or different version of silverlight or java something but usually I'd get an icon or prompt of some sort. I'm naive to know the solution but thought I'd let you know that I can't surf the pages appropriately.

Happy with my Fisher maps at $7 a map. For $25 a map, it's hard to justify. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your business.

For changes such as the camp sites on Lake One, what is the estimated time from getting and verifying the info until a purchase would reflect that info? I would think current inventory would of necessity be sold before updated maps could be sold because of costs involved?

Well, I bought one for my Clearwater entry this year so that I can actually review the product firsthand w/o speculation. I don't mind the price assuming the durability is what it should be.

Hey, True North guys. If you want an idea to consider... I'd like to have a map from you that is roughly 45x45" so that I could wear it as a keffiyeh/shemagh. Niche offering, sure, but I think if you showed people what a shemagh is and how to wear your 45" maps in that way, some people might even be converted to trying it. How-to's are plentiful on the web, and it's a lot easier than you'd think.

Chicagored: "Will they have a booth at Canoecopia?"

Yep! We are registered and excited for the show. We are looking forward to meeting so many other BWCA enthusiasts. Be sure to stop by and say hello, and get a closer look and feel for our maps.

yellowhorse: "I'm a sucker for maps! Best of luck on the endeavor!

My mac doesn't load the map images with firefox or safari. I can click to the which map page but as soon as I click on a map number it doesn't load anything (presumably an image). Only the 10% off any order of $75 heading. It's probably a case where I'd need a plug-in update or different version of silverlight or java something but usually I'd get an icon or prompt of some sort. I'm naive to know the solution but thought I'd let you know that I can't surf the pages appropriately. "

Absolutely - we appreciate you letting us know. We tested our website on as many different devices and browsers as we had access to, but we want to make sure it works for everyone. We have re-published the entire site to try and resolve any issues. If you continue to have the problem, please send us an email and we can try to help further.

Neat concept, but I wonder about the resolution possible and how well that map details printed on material will stand up to long-term use.

schweady: "Neat concept, but I wonder about the resolution possible and how well that map details printed on material will stand up to long-term use.
"

Thanks! We were getting quite a few questions about the resolution and detail of the maps so we just added a few new images to each of the product pages on our website that shows a much closer view of an actual map, in addition to the digital map images.

As for the durability, the printing technology used is extremely resilient as its not just on the surface, like screen printing. The fibers of the cloth are actually dyed with special long lasting ink - pair this with the UPF 50 of the material they will stand up to significant abuse.

I got three of the TNMC maps in the mail today. I noticed the tag says they are rated UPF 30 vs. UPF 50. Doesn’t matter to me as I don’t plan to use them as a sun screen but different than the previous posts. I like the stretchiness of the fabric. They squish into a fist sized ball and when folded will probably fit well into a roomy PFD or trouser pocket. The stitching and fabric look and feel like good quality. The scale and area covered looks simlar to a WA Fisher map but more square vs. the more traditional rectangle.

On the few lakes with depth contours I find it a little hard to make out the individual rings except on large lakes like Brule. I like maps with lake elevations as these give a good clue whether I will be generally ascending or descending on a portage and by how many feet. The TNMC maps do not have printed lake elevations.

The land contours don’t have reference rings with elevations every 100-200 feet or peak heights like a topographic map. I don’t see any indicator of what height (or depth) a contour ring representes on the map key. You can get a sense of the steepness of the land but exact heights are hard to determine from the map.

If you primarily only use a map to navigate lake-to-lake and just find portages and campsites these will probably work just fine. If you like to know more precise elevations you might be disappointed.

I was reviewing a route I did last summer on the TNMC BWCA 14. The 70ish rod portage between Lizz and Caribou near EP47 is missing. I walked it twice last June and its a pretty popular route to the Gaskin-Winchell area! Hopefully this is a rare miss but concerning right out of the gate. Break out the red and black fine point Sharpies :-)

I will take one or two TNMC maps on my next trip and see how they perform in the field. Maybe alternate travel days using these and my current favorite which is WA Fisher maps. But based on first impressions the TNMC will be a compliment or back up rather than my new “go to” map until some field testing.

Thank you for reviewing our maps!

UPF rating is 50. The 30 listed on the hang tags was an error and has been corrected.

The lake depth and land elevation contour labels were intentionally omitted, as a design decision putting emphasis on navigation. We included them on early prototypes but later removed them as they proved to make the maps appear cluttered / busy.

We are proud of the accuracy of True North canoe maps which are compiled with the most up to date GIS and US forest service data available. The BWCA data is not perfect as things change over time like campsites and portage trails. We appreciate your feedback about the portage trail that is missing. We have already confirmed this report and the change will be reflected in future prints. True North Map Company is already working with guides, outfitters and customers like yourself, to produce the best product available. Any possible changes that you guys see can be emailed to us:

contact@truenorthmapco.com

We will then process that information with the local outfitters to determine if it is a credible change before making it. Thanks for your interest and your help.

I’m loving the look and idea of these maps I can’t wait to get one. However, I think I’m going to wait for the second or third edition of these. I also noticed on map 13 that the third bay of Saganaga is missed labeled as Swamp Lake which is actually the next lake west.

Also I agree I would love the depth lines to be a more lakes.

Again I think these are awesome maps and I can’t wait to get my own after the edits.

Thank you for the detail images on the website. They are much more informative about the appearance of the maps than zooming in on the full images. I hope you will add some for the wall map too. I’ve been meaning to add one to our cabin.

I am sorry to hear that the contours are not labeled. Other maps manage to have them and still look good. Is the problem that printing on the fabric increases the minimum line thickness?

My two cents.

Folks using these maps probably want as much information as humanly possible, at least based on the feedback so far. Yes, the maps are made for navigation, but I bet we all like to pull out the map, in camp, after the chores are done and look at all there is to see. The land elevations with height contours would only enhance our understanding of what we are looking at. More information is better on a map than less.

And you can't please everyone so there will always be an 'unhappy camper'.

As far as finding errors and making adjustments, this is a huge plus since I know of many map errors on Fischer maps that have been on their maps for 20 years. And a map company can only make improvements if someone tells them.

Finally, I'll wait for the Quetico maps too. Pretty much done with the US side. I would buy a Q wall map for my shop. They look nice!

Tom

I'm sorry if I missed this here or at the web site but what is the scale? I guess I'm partial to the MacKensie 2" to a mile. And is there a grid that can be used with coordinates?

Will stop by at Caonecopia (hopefully I'll make it.)

Received their BWCA 06 map over the weekend. It was pretty quick delivery. I like the concept of the map but will take along a paper map on our trip also. Always good to have two maps. When comparing the maps I noted a portage missing on the Horse River. I also looked at the NatGeo maps online to make sure it should be there. I think it should and will confirm in May when we go through the area. Also, because the Canadian side is not shown in detail, the portage around Lower Basswood Falls was also missing. This is an important detail for someone traveling this route. Gave this feedback directly to them on their website.

This nice write-up is on my local paper's website today.

Question for the owners - will you also be at the Midwest Mountaineering Expo this spring for those of us in the cities that can't make Canoecopia?

eagle98mn: "This nice write-up is on my local paper's website today.


Question for the owners - will you also be at the Midwest Mountaineering Expo this spring for those of us in the cities that can't make Canoecopia?"

We are considering going the the Midwest Mountaineering spring expo. We will let people know through our newsletter. You can sign up for it on our website. Thank you for your interest.

Seems to be more than one or two omissions here. Concerning given the price. I would love a trade-in offer if corrections are made for next year; if each of my 4 $25 maps all have obvious portages missing, I can't depend on them for navigation. I will bring the matching map for whatever trips I do this year (if I have it now) but unfortunately it's looking like I can't use them as my sole map.

The maps are printed on nice fabric at least, which is quite stretchy. My only concern regarding durability right now are the holes in the corners for tying it to a thwart. I expected to see some metal O rings or something, but it's just a semi-reinforced hole in the fabric, which I have little doubt would tear if someone tripped at a landing and grabbed a hold of it/the thwart bag to stabilize themselves. Surely an unlikely situation but if there is any concern about durability, some cheap brass rings would have gone a long way.

A good effort, maybe 85% of the way there. Map fixes need to happen though, kind of disappointing for a new map company with a promising benefit (the microfiber fabric). Again hoping for some sort of trade-in offer or discount for those who purchased the first run of "flawed" maps but I don't want to put tooooo much pressure on the new guys.

Here is a photo of the map with natural lighting from the snowy day outside.

Flynn,

Can you email us contact@truenorthmapco.com
Or provide me a way to direct message you. We would be happy to talk to you about any concerns you have.

When I read about them but hadn't seen them yet, I also expected something like brass grommets, not just sewn button holes. Ultimately, the fabric itself is only so strong, and grommets may simply be overkill and could interfere with certain secondary uses of the map for wearing or storing.

mschi772: "When I read about them but hadn't seen them yet, I also expected something like brass grommets, not just sewn button holes. Ultimately, the fabric itself is only so strong, and grommets may simply be overkill and could interfere with certain secondary uses of the map for wearing or storing."

Right. If you wanted to wrap one around your head, the grommets might poke you. Plus, having grommets just means you'd tear the area around it and not the hole itself. I'd almost rather tear the hole itself honestly, so... it can go either way I suppose.

TNMC, sending you an email.

flynn: "Seems to be more than one or two omissions here. Concerning given the price. I would love a trade-in offer if corrections are made for next year; if each of my 4 $25 maps all have obvious portages missing, I can't depend on them for navigation. I will bring the matching map for whatever trips I do this year (if I have it now) but unfortunately it's looking like I can't use them as my sole map.

A good effort, maybe 85% of the way there. Map fixes need to happen though, kind of disappointing for a new map company with a promising benefit (the microfiber fabric). Again hoping for some sort of trade-in offer or discount for those who purchased the first run of "flawed" maps but I don't want to put tooooo much pressure on the new guys. "

I just received mine, and I will be composing a feedback email for them. Not having first-hand experience in the area to be 100% sure, there is definitely a missing portage or two on my map (16), a misplaced EP icon, and campsites that are on the park boundary are extremely difficult to see because they are small red dots on a red dashed line. Not sure how many other campsites are on the park boundary throughout the entire park.

Missing portage options and obfuscated campsites are major downers since the owners have stated explicitly that they've made compromises for the sake of navigation. Well, identifying campsites and portages are two VERY important aspects of navigating the BWCA I'd say.

The fabric and printing are great. There is nothing I cannot read--even the tiniest of portages. It is so nice to not have to worry about the fragility of paper or to have to mess with folds--even nicer in reality that I thought. I have zero concerns about the buttonholes--they are well-sewn, and I wouldn't be surprised if the map itself would tear before the buttonholes failed (hopefully no one ever has to find out). The 1 mile = 1.5" scale is the same that Fisher and Voyageur uses, so most should be familiar with that. I'm not sure if I could ever go back to paper maps for canoe tripping after this.

What I'd like to see is a map company which lets you customize the area of the map. Nothing irks me more than buying another map just for a small part of your route that's not on the other maps that you have. I know it can be done

Blatz: "What I'd like to see is a map company which lets you customize the area of the map. Nothing irks me more than buying another map just for a small part of your route that's not on the other maps that you have. I know it can be done "

+1

Blatz: "What I'd like to see is a map company which lets you customize the area of the map. Nothing irks me more than buying another map just for a small part of your route that's not on the other maps that you have. I know it can be done "

That would be awesome. It would be even cooler if you could choose the size; say the standard square is just barely too small for the map you want, you could pick a larger one that shows more area of your choosing. Maybe some standardized sizes at least, because fully custom sizes would probably make them expensive due to the custom stitching. 24x24, 30x30, 36x36? That would be pretty slick... @TNMC ;)

flynn: "

Blatz: "What I'd like to see is a map company which lets you customize the area of the map. Nothing irks me more than buying another map just for a small part of your route that's not on the other maps that you have. I know it can be done "

That would be awesome. It would be even cooler if you could choose the size; say the standard square is just barely too small for the map you want, you could pick a larger one that shows more area of your choosing. Maybe some standardized sizes at least, because fully custom sizes would probably make them expensive due to the custom stitching. 24x24, 30x30, 36x36? That would be pretty slick... @TNMC ;)"

Or TNMC also go into the tradition waterproof map biz with this option. No doubt you'd be inducted into the Cartography Hall of Fame on the first ballot

I finally took mine out tonight to look them over. You give up some detail for a soft wearable map. Like others have stated, lake contours don't exist, and land contours aren't very detailed and don't list altitudes. It would be nice if TNMC would add a "Known Issues" area to their website so if you do have an early version of the map you could at least update the ones you have with missing portages and campsites before you use them on a trip. They seem like more of a novelty than a tool for navigation. In my opinion they are a $7.00 to $10.00 map, but not a $25.00 map.

With that said, I look forward to using mine this year. I won't leave my Voyageur maps at home, but I will leave them in my pack.

Received my new map a few days ago as a birthday present from my son.
First thing I noticed was the minimal packaging- just a heavy paper/ light cardboard envelope. Inside there was no plastic or bubble wrap, just the map. Yeah!

Our map covers Crab Lake, and I had no problem finding last years route and campsites. (I have not taken the time to check for details/accuracy). Everything is readable, (after I put my cheaters on). Love the fabric, and the printing is clear. A beautiful map. It just might be too nice to use and risk getting dirty!

Northwoodsman: "I finally took mine out tonight to look them over. You give up some detail for a soft wearable map. Like others have stated, lake contours don't exist, and land contours aren't very detailed and don't list altitudes. It would be nice if TNMC would add a "Known Issues" area to their website so if you do have an early version of the map you could at least update the ones you have with missing portages and campsites before you use them on a trip. They seem like more of a novelty than a tool for navigation. In my opinion they are a $7.00 to $10.00 map, but not a $25.00 map.


With that said, I look forward to using mine this year. I won't leave my Voyageur maps at home, but I will leave them in my pack."

We are working on the an easy way to inform people of any updates as we speak and should have something soon. Thanks for your support.

< "
I just received mine, and I will be composing a feedback email for them. Not having first-hand experience in the area to be 100% sure, there is definitely a missing portage or two on my map (16), a misplaced EP icon, and campsites that are on the park boundary are extremely difficult to see because they are small red dots on a red dashed line. Not sure how many other campsites are on the park boundary throughout the entire park.


Missing portage options and obfuscated campsites are major downers since the owners have stated explicitly that they've made compromises for the sake of navigation. Well, identifying campsites and portages are two VERY important aspects of navigating the BWCA I'd say.

The fabric and printing are great. There is nothing I cannot read--even the tiniest of portages. It is so nice to not have to worry about the fragility of paper or to have to mess with folds--even nicer in reality that I thought. I have zero concerns about the buttonholes--they are well-sewn, and I wouldn't be surprised if the map itself would tear before the buttonholes failed (hopefully no one ever has to find out). The 1 mile = 1.5" scale is the same that Fisher and Voyageur uses, so most should be familiar with that. I'm not sure if I could ever go back to paper maps for canoe tripping after this."


Thank you for your feedback. We feel confident that together with the help from our outfitter friends and people like you on this forum we will create the most accurate and up to date map available. We really appreciate this community. Thank you all for the support.

I want to give a shout out for the guys at True North Map Company! Today I received two emails from TNMC with updates regarding a couple of the maps I purchased from them. As some of us noted some of the maps may have been missing a couple of portages, etc. The emails contained hi-res map images with bright red arrows pointing out the missing features. I took a fine point red Sharpie and added them already. I have to give them credit for doing this. I am extremely pleased with their efforts. Sure, new maps would have been great but I'm more than happy that they at least pointed out the errors. Thanks TNMC! I wish you much success.

I got update emails for 2 of the 3 maps (#9 and #11) I bought as well. Hopefully they are still working on Map 14 as it has at least one missing portage. It was easy to add the portages with a red ultra fine tip Sharpie. I found adding the portage lengths with a black Sharpie harder as the fabric stretches and the ink runs a little making writing small numbers a challenge. TNMC may want to add a date or version number to the maps.

Any thoughts on when you will restock? Was waiting on the permit before picking up the maps... and while I think (so far) I have my permits, map 16 is sold out. Another run happening?

heelix: "Any thoughts on when you will restock? Was waiting on the permit before picking up the maps... and while I think (so far) I have my permits, map 16 is sold out. Another run happening?"

We will have new stock on 13-17 in the next few weeks. Signing up for the our newsletter on our website would be the way to stay up to date.

Thanks

I also appreciate the update emails with corrections. What other map company gives that kind of service? While I was disappointed to find out a couple portages were missing from our planned route I will be buying a red fine point fabric marker to update them. Glad to read about the success of using Sharpies.

Usually we buy a map for each of the 3 people in our group to have their own copy. We are all map geeks and control freaks. However, with the higher price on these, we opted to just buy 1 each of map 11, 12, and 13. There is enough overlap that at least 2 people will have a True North Map for any given area. We also plan to carry 1 copy of a Fisher.

We all love the feel of these maps and look forward to trying them out this summer. I always hated trying to stuff my plastic bag with map in the corner of a pack or a pocket and worrying it would fall out while portaging. Now I can just tie it around my neck.

I took my True North Maps on my BWCA trip that I just finished yesterday. I brought them as a "spare" because I normally like to navigate by GPS.

I had my first GPS issue ever. I arrived at the entry point and my battery was only at 25%. It was left on and buried in my pack trying to find a satellite for 2 days before my trip. At the end of the first day I realized that although I had a power block, I had the wrong cord.

So the True North Map was put to work... I used it as a map and it worked great. I used it as a bandana to keep the sun off my neck, it was perfect. I used it to soak up water in the bottom of the canoe, once again success. I needed to wipe some condensation off my down sleeping bag and sleeping pad in the morning, just right. It got a little warm one day, worked great as a cooling cloth. Bad hair day, use it as a bandana over the head. I normally just kept it around my neck and grabbed it as needed to navigate.

These are the multi-tool of maps. We had Voyageur and McKenzie maps along as well and these were just as accurate albeit less detailed. Personally I would prefer the versatility over the contour lines and topography, but then again I don't fish or bushwack and I research the portages (hill index) well before I go.

I just returned home this afternoon and much to my surprise I had a couple of new, corrected ones waiting for me in the mail. It doesn't get much better than that. I rate these an "A-".

I, too, received a free corrected map in the mail without requesting it. I greatly appreciate that. Heck, actually trying to correct errors, common errors or otherwise, puts them a step above the complacent rest already. Very happy.

mschi772: "I, too, received a free corrected map in the mail without requesting it. I greatly appreciate that. Heck, actually trying to correct errors, common errors or otherwise, puts them a step above the complacent rest already. Very happy."

+1 Impressive customer service. Can't wait to use them on our trip this summer.

I tried to get one of these at Midwest Mountaineering yesterday as I though MM would carry them. No luck. I had seen them at Lake Superior Trading Post in Grand Marais earlier this year, but we hadn’t decided on an entry point yet.

So that’s my suggestion for the website: a tab with locations of where we can purchase the maps. I’ll order it online, but I do like to look at most things before purchasing.

Abbey: "I tried to get one of these at Midwest Mountaineering yesterday as I though MM would carry them. No luck. I had seen them at Lake Superior Trading Post in Grand Marais earlier this year, but we hadn’t decided on an entry point yet.


So that’s my suggestion for the website: a tab with locations of where we can purchase the maps. I’ll order it online, but I do like to look at most things before purchasing. "

Just a heads up, REI is carrying them. At least I saw them at the Bloomington store.....

I bought one of these for the area containing Red Rock, Alpine, Jasper, Kingfisher,and Ogish. It really is a great map - very detailed! It can also serve as a bandana, tourniquet,neck wrap, etc...

I went on a trip with True North Map 78 this past weekend and discovered three missing campsites on Lake Three. I always consult multiple maps and usually have more than one with me on a trip. I know that no map is perfect and often campsites or portages are missing or in the wrong location or listed with an incorrect distance. But in the past those maps haven't cost me $25 each.

While it seems that many folks on this thread have received good customer service from this company, I don't feel I have had the same experience this week.

I contacted them via their website with very detailed information about the three missing campsites, including pictures of my mackenzie map with the sites and pointing to the locations on their map where the sites are missing so they would know the locations.

I was thanked for the information, given an explanation on how they gather their info for maps and told that they would update the map on the next printing with my on-the-ground reports of these three campsites. I do appreciate their responsiveness when it comes to updating their maps. I know that other companies don't do this as promptly.

I was also told I could return the map if I am still unhappy with the purchase. In a back and forth email exchange I made it clear that I did not want to return a map and be left with shipping costs but no product, that instead I would have appreciated the offer of an updated map when it is available. The response was that they send a shipping label so I did not have to pay return shipping. My request for an updated replacement product when available was ignored.

I decided to stop trying to get satisfaction, just mark up the map with a red sharpie and choose not to do business with True North in the future.

Then I thought... I wonder if anyone here has interacted with them or found errors, remembering that there was a thread earlier this year when the product was starting out... so I did a quick search.

And it seems that other customers have been given replacement maps at no cost - without even asking for them. I actually asked for this and the response was that I could return my current map for a refund and they would cover the return shipping costs. No offer to replace the inaccurate map with an updated one whenever they have them in stock. No acknowledgment that I requested that.

I am disappointed in the lack of response to that request. I own three True North maps. I love the material they are printed on and appreciate that I can use them as a bandana, etc but I certainly won't purchase another in the future. $25 is too much money to spend on something that is just a really nice bandana with a semi-accurate map on it. I am concerned about the accuracy of my other two maps after my issues and reading all the missing items in this thread.

For a company that is still new in a fairly niche market with a relatively small customer base, I would've expected a different response when I made it clear in a respectful manner that I was about to become a dissatisfied former customer. I have never publically posted such dissatisfaction with a company, choosing to let them know privately if I have an issue with a product or service. I don't always get the answers I want from larger companies and I expect that. Heck I don't always get exactly the answer I want from a smaller company. But for some reason this one bugs me. Maybe because I was originally excited about the product and am now disappointed.

Sorry for such a long post... just feeling frustrated...

Picked one up last week at REI. I checked it out against the entry point map on this site, and it matches up pretty well. No lake depth or altitudes, but frankly those aren't important to me. What I really like is that you can just stuff it in a pocket, and just pull it out. No more fiddling around with a map case. 25 bucks may seem like a lot, but the ease of use alleviates the dent in your budget.