BWCA Canister Stove: What Could Go Wrong?? Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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01/21/2019 09:35AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I’m considering picking up a canister stove for a possible trip next summer to save a bit of weight and space, probably a Pocket Rocket 2 or similar (please, don’t want to get into preferences on brand here - there’s plenty of that in other threads). For years I’ve used my MSR Whisperlight and I’m very comfortable with it’s use. That said, I’ve learned some hard lessons about it’s use that usually are not spelled out in reviews - and some of these lessons I’ve learned the hard way. Examples being:

- be careful in very cold weather as it it not impossible to break the plunger (been there)
- don’t connect to an old Sigg fuel bottle; it may look like a good fit but can leak when preasurized (done that)
- don’t overfill the primer cup or you can have an uncontrolled flame (especially bad on a kitchen counter!).

So what I am wondering is what are the potential pitfalls and fails associated with a simple canister stove? What can go wrong? I won’t be using in the cold so that is not an issue for me. The two things I’ve found in my reading are:

1. be careful screwing in as it’s possible to mis-align and damage the threads, and

2. don’t leave the stove connected to the canister overnight as its possible fuel will escape.

So are these common issues or flukes? Do you leave your stove screwed in overnight? What other things should be on this list of possible problems? I’d rather learn here than in the field.
 
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alpinebrule
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01/21/2019 09:50AM  
I have used one for years and so far no "problems". I do leave mine connected overnight when in use, but not when moving or storing. The biggest problem I have is that of partially used canisters. You can weigh them to determine how much fuel is left. I don't take partials to start a trip usually as a space saving measure. Many say if you use the larger canisters they can get top heavy and unstable. I always use the smaller canister for that reason. I do like the convenience when just heating water.
 
01/21/2019 10:55AM  
Jaywalker , a few questions about the failures,

What version pump broke?
Older gray pumps are brittle, newer "seahorse" pumps with a molded in elbow for non return valve I have used for many years without trouble. Old style pump, New style "seahorse"
How old for the Sigg bottle?
The oldest used press in threads and needed the flat washer seal, new versions are taped into the bottle and a smaller seat that fits MSR pump seals.

Over priming is a problem for all versions and styles of presurised liquid stoves, I cured that with a squirt bottle for priming with alcohol, easy to judge amounts and no soot.

These problems rarely if ever transfer to canister stoves. Only care needed is with seating the stove valve to the Lindal canister valve. I do leave my stoves connected till the time to pack up arrives, even over several days layovers. Only failure I ever had was on a custom fuel line setup that had a weak inner line (it was a part from a no-name oriental source). I caught it submersion testing for leaks.
No stove problems but I've had several canister valve failures that would not seal when the stove valve was unscrewed. Not enough considering my use to worry about, but I tend to carry an extra 4 ounce canister anyway.

While an advocate for using liquid fuel stoves, I'll often recommend canister stoves for most folks for simplicity, speed of setup, and reliability.

butthead
 
OCDave
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01/21/2019 12:24PM  
Jaywalker: "... (please, don’t want to get into preferences on brand here - there’s plenty of that in other threads).
..."


Really, the thing to most likely to go wrong is choosing wrong. Some canister stoves have very concentrated burners which make it impossible to use for any purpose other than boiling. Be critical when judging the burner and how adjustable your stove will be.

The second most likely thing to go wrong is dumping your dinner. I would encourage the use of the MSR Universal Canister stand A stand becomes more critical as the size of your pot/pan increases.

I take my Primus Classic Trail for groups 3-4. It is a slightly larger burner with great adjustabilty. With stand, it is reasonably stable with larger pots and pans.

I take my MSR Micro Rocket for Solo trips or with 1 partner. It packs perfectly in my IMUSA 12cm mug.

Good Luck

 
01/21/2019 12:41PM  
Butthead, it was probably 8-9 years ago that my pump broke and it was probably 5 years old at the time. I can't be 100% certain, but seem to recall it being red just like the one I have now. I do not recall having a metal wheel regulator - but could be wrong. It was the long, cross shaped stem that you pull out and push in - broke right in the middle as I pushed in. It was about 0ºF on a day hike, and I don't recall being overly aggressive with it but don't recall. Just know I've been more deliberate and direct with my new one ever since. Do you recall which year the newer ones came out?

I do like my Whisperlite - only wish it could simmer better. Given how much I liked my Solo last summer, I'm wondering about using it more and a fuel stove less, especially if I get to take a longer trip of 15-20 days next year. I'm not usually an ounce counter, my estimates are with an 8 oz canister I'd save about 1 pound for near the same burn time. Not a big savings, but I may have to find a few to compensate for extra food load for me plus 15-20 lbs for the dog!

On that canister that would not seal, just curious, did that happen the first time you unscrewed the stove? If so, would it be a sensible test for new canisters to attach & detach the stove before leaving on a trip? Or did it fail to seal on some Nth use?
 
01/21/2019 01:10PM  
Oh, and my Sigg bottle was old. Got it before my Whisperlite back when I got my Peak 2. It's due for an O ring change, but I still often use it to carry spare fuel.
 
01/21/2019 01:14PM  
I leave my cannister screwed on at night, but I did leave one on overnight and it was empty in the morning. I must have been car camping and had a back up, because I can't remember it being a big deal.
I probabally should unscrew mine when I am backpacking or canoeing.
Thanks for the tip.
 
01/21/2019 01:50PM  
Not sure when the newer pumps came out, the Dragonfly pumps for sure about 20 years ago. Standard pumps sometime later, visible changes are the solid but angled in tank end of the pump and the brass collared valve for fuel control. MSR does market a 0 degree cold weather pump, a much newer release.
The old Sigg bottles had a larger diameter flange and have been known to blow out the threads. MSR bottles have always been treaded into the formed bottle and stronger, they also were sized a bit smaller allowing MSR pump gaskets to be changed from o-ring style to a flanged flexible gasket.

The canister failure (3 out of 20 years, 2 of those at home durring stove trials), was after a few connect/disconnect cycles, the valve stayed open and the canister leaked till empty.
OCDave is right on choosing the burner head size. Small like a PocketRocket is best with pots less than 5 inches in diameter. Primus Classic Trail/WindPro sized 5 1/2 inch to say 7 inch. The MSR WhisperLight Universal/Rapidfire use a waffle plate burner that works better with larger pots from 6 inches up.
Far as fuel use, my experiences are very close between brands and fuels. To the point of interchanging fuel need across platforms, volume for liquid weight for canister gas. I( regularly get the same burn time from an 11 ounce MSR bottle with 8 ounces Coleman fuel, measured in volume, as an 8 ounce canister. Both weigh about 14 ounces total, full 8 ounce canister and MRS bottle?pump/fuel. Both will cook for me for 7 days.
Saving fuel is better addressed with windscreens and use.

butthead
 
dsk
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01/21/2019 01:50PM  
Jaywalker:
2. don’t leave the stove connected to the canister overnight as its possible fuel will escape.

"


Sometimes the valve on the canister leaks, and it may be better to leave the stove connected, this has happened for me several times.

dsk
 
01/21/2019 02:41PM  
I don't think there's much Jaywalker. I've been using them for many years. I always test my canister at home before leaving and have never had one leak on a trip. One leaked at home on test, so I didn't take it. One caution is not to over tighten the stove on the canister. I never leave it attached overnight. If it has piezo ignition, don't rely on that - have a secondary lighting source, which you'll most likely have anyway. I use mine on the fire grate - they are pretty level and stable. Before I got the Jetboil where the pot attaches to the flux ring, I worried about knocking the pot off the supports. I only did that once though. It wasn't a big deal with just water, but if a meal was in there . . .
 
bwcasolo
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01/21/2019 04:39PM  
i have had zero issues with canisters over the past decades. if i am not on the move, i leave the stove hooked up to it, i use a small titanium snow peak for a backup. i mainly heat with alcohol stoves now.
 
mastertangler
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01/21/2019 05:16PM  
I have a few pocket rockets and also have remote canister stoves.........the rocket is good backpacking but care needs to be employed lest you land your dinner on your foot. Not so safe........burns I believe are the #1 backcountry injury and you can bet many are caused by dumping dinner on a sandal clad foot.

For that reason I much prefer the remote style canister set up with a low to the ground pot placement. Check out the Kovea Spyder........very compact and extremely stable plus excellent simmer control and wide flame dispersal. I think its tops all things considered and very well priced.

My other concern with sit on top canister stoves is if you use an outback oven. Could it get so hot it explodes? Perhaps, stranger things have happened.
 
01/21/2019 05:31PM  
mastertangler: "I much prefer the remote style canister set up with a low to the ground pot placement."


In addition to a more stable pot placement, the remote canister design also allows the use of a wind screen, improving the stove efficiency. A couple of the remote canister designs also have a built-in stand allowing the canister to be used in gaseous mode (upright) or liquid delivery mode (inverted for better cold-weather performance).

As far as something going wrong, the already-mentioned fuel leaks and the learning curve for how much fuel is in the canister are the primary issues. For the two of us, camping meals are pretty consistent in prep style--hot water required for breakfast (two cups coffee each and oatmeal or something similar), cold lunches, and a dinner that requires 15 minutes or so of cook time, plus hot water for clean-up. And for that cooking style, an 8-ounce canister of isopro is at least good for three breakfasts and three dinners, usually with a bit left over. As our standard trip is 10 days, I carry four 8-ounce canisters for the trip, giving us some fuel insurance.
 
01/21/2019 07:57PM  
Used a Vargo pocket stove for years. Other than screwing it on wrong, not much can happen.
 
muddyfeet
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01/21/2019 08:23PM  
Be aware that canister stoves do suffer poor performance in the cold. Butane is a major component of most mixtures, and boils at 31degF. You might get limited cold use out of a new canister below that temp as the stove disproportionately burns the other fuels, but you will soon run out of vapor pressure even though there is still plenty of liquid fuel in the canister.

There are ways to get around it: Isobutane boils colder (10 or 11degF I think). You can keep the canister warm in your sleeping bag along with your water filter. You can also fashion a Moulder strip to siphon heat from the flame back to the canister.


personal opinion: the pocket rocket is one of those pieces of gear I've had for more than 10 years that gets used all the time and is still very dependable.
 
01/22/2019 10:07AM  
Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the comments (and welcome any more that come along). All very helpful. I have to say I do find it mildly concerning that 4 out of the 11 of you who have commented have had canisters leak! I know that might be a small percentage of all canisters used, but still makes me wonder about them. I know back up canisters can be brought, but had been thinking of bringing just one 8 oz for occasional use to save space and weight on a longer trip. Fortunately I have a few months or more to think this through.
 
01/22/2019 10:35AM  
Jaywalker: "Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the comments (and welcome any more that come along). All very helpful. I have to say I do find it mildly concerning that 4 out of the 11 of you who have commented have had canisters leak! I know that might be a small percentage of all canisters used, but still makes me wonder about them. I know back up canisters can be brought, but had been thinking of bringing just one 8 oz for occasional use to save space and weight on a longer trip. Fortunately I have a few months or more to think this through."


Mine did not actully leak, I did not close the valve completely after I was done.
I now make sure it is completley closed and I have not lost fuel since.
 
01/22/2019 10:55AM  
In about a decade of use, my Windpro hasn't had a failure that wasn't the result of my action. No issues with leaking canisters, use in cold weather, or leaving it connected to a canister for days at a time.

I tend to get Snow Peak canisters. Yes, I have a couple partials at home and if they're full enough they'll go on a trip, and if not then maybe I'll take them on a local Scout or river trip.
 
01/22/2019 12:06PM  
I stand corrected; 3 out of 12 have had a canister leak at some point in time.

So how many of you would feel confident on a longer solo trip bringing a single canister? Assume it has enough fuel for 1/2 of your meals, and you plan to use wood for the other 1/2 (and no fire ban likely)?
 
01/22/2019 12:53PM  
As I mentioned, my usage is 8 oz in 7 days. I have carried 2, 8 oz canisters often but over lhe last 6 years when I take a canister stove for a 7 day trip I'll take 2, 4 oz. More days I switch to 1, 8 oz and a 4 oz, 2 weeks 2, 8 oz. I'm that confident in my use, and my ability to make and cook over a small fire if needed.

butthead
 
dsk
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01/22/2019 01:27PM  
When you take the burner/hose off the valve, a litle spit on the opening, and you will see bobbles if it is leaking, in that case put the burner on it again, and leave it on until ...

Another issue, and that is not limited to canister stoves, sturdiness and of easy the pot slides off the pot-stand has to be looked at before you decide what you buy.

dsk
 
yellowcanoe
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01/22/2019 02:05PM  
I had one canister leak.. over the years I have had my Windpro and it was my fault.. there was a bit of sand that got caught in the seal.

I have had total failure of the whole unit on day 3 of a Yukon River trip some six years ago.. The Windpro by then had been used some eight years summer and winter and in salt air environments.

Some of the system had rust and contaminants in it it turned out.. We were fortunate that we were able to build fires on the Yukon for the remainder of our trip( 12 days)

Longer solo trip: I can get five days out of a 8 oz canister but always carry a spare. Lately they have the smaller 3.9 oz isopro canisters. I am not much of a fire maker so that would be two meals a day cooking on the stove.

Here is an interesting article How Much?
 
mastertangler
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01/22/2019 02:24PM  
The canister "leaks"are typically user error. The problems start with the generally light wire handle which is the on/off valve for your stove. You twist it shut, the flame goes out and it's off.......only it isn't. Continue closing even after the flame goes out.......without over stressing the wire handle.

Fussy? Perhaps the case could be made. I let a large brand new can leak out on my first evenings use on a 20+ day trip. Good thing I had erred on the side of abundance. A few less fish frys were had on that trip.

So now, when I'm done using I either unscrew the stove or grasp the cannister firmly by the base and make certain the valve is snugged tightly. A leaky cannister in your tent could really help in the sleep department. I know, not really all that funny.
 
pswith5
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01/22/2019 02:44PM  
butthead: "As I mentioned, my usage is 8 oz in 7 days. I have carried 2, 8 oz canisters often but over lhe last 6 years when I take a canister stove for a 7 day trip I'll take 2, 4 oz. More days I switch to 1, 8 oz and a 4 oz, 2 weeks 2, 8 oz. I'm that confident in my use, and my ability to make and cook over a small fire if needed.


butthead"
I have tripped with butthead plus followed threads with what he eats. I think he eats on the light side. As do many paddlers especially when going solo. I am not in that group. I pack a fair amount of food and not just rehydraye and eat. I bring two 8oz canisters for a week trip. But, I don't cook over the grate except for 1st nights steaks. Just my 2 cents.
 
yellowcanoe
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01/22/2019 05:01PM  
Is there any maintenance that should be done? Question for stove gurus like Butthead.

We are going canoe camping in FL ( which is not kindly to metal parts) and while the Windpro seems fine, its backup a Pocket Rocket seems to have blue corrosion on the adjustment screw.. I have not done anything other than wipe it down as I think any lubricant is uncalled for. But I could be wrong hence I ask.

Both stoves lit up. Outside . It was below zero but the stoves had been inside.

We now are anal about sand.. Sand and the fuel delivery system do not mix so we have a stove cloth. Its just a piece of raggedy packcloth that keeps the sand off and we use a piece of alu foil under the stove also to keep from burning ( more) holes in the cloth.

Fuel budgets can vary widely.. BH is more conservative than I. I like to bake at least twice on trips and even on low simmer the bake times can be 20 min. Just take a little more than you think you need. And carry Clif Bars... ( now ducking .... I hate em. but they can be useful)
 
01/22/2019 06:40PM  
Jaywalker: "Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the comments (and welcome any more that come along). All very helpful. I have to say I do find it mildly concerning that 4 out of the 11 of you who have commented have had canisters leak! I know that might be a small percentage of all canisters used, but still makes me wonder about them. I know back up canisters can be brought, but had been thinking of bringing just one 8 oz for occasional use to save space and weight on a longer trip. Fortunately I have a few months or more to think this through."



I should add that the one I had leak was an older partial one, which I tested at home first and left behind for that reason. The seal may have just been too old and dried out. I've never had a problem on a trip.
 
01/22/2019 06:55PM  
Yes need a disclaimer on fuel use as I am very conservative. Full windscreens when applicable, prepping food before lighting a stove, using cozies/insulated containers for cooking (I'll bring noodles to a boil and put them into an insulated container to finish instead of boiling for 10 minutes). And I do not eat much. I will bake though and that does use fuel, so I like to reserve that for campfires and improvised Dutch Ovens.

YC, that salt air will kill a burner fast. Really can't be avoided as it's in the air mixed to burn. I like to lube with a rubber/vinyl friendly silicon. It will not hurt, but may smell and color the flame at first. Oxidation is easy (normally) to remove with a citrus based cleaner or cleaning wipes. A small brass brush for the hard to do areas. Serious cleaning may need a stove dis-assembly and soaking in something like CLR, that does a good job, but will smell and burn funny for a while on first running. The valves on canister stoves usually do not dis-assemble, such as the PocketRocket and WindPro. Clean them, lube them, give them some run time before heading out.
One thing I've noticed and wondered about is that MSR supplies lube with their liquid stoves and some tools, I don't think any came with canister stoves. The o-rings and seals need some occasionally.

"blue corrosion on the adjustment screw", very typical of brass discoloring, a starting point for oxidation corrosion. Again clean it best you can, lube it, run it to burn any excess lube off,
I do not believe I ever took a backup stove, saltwater environments I would for sure!

I like to mess with stoves obviously and have some experience with a bunch. I do think this is getting off Jaywalkers original intention. My apology if I've gone off too much.

butthead
 
TIMMY
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01/22/2019 09:12PM  
I also have drained canisters due to faulty valve that did not reseal after removing from stove. I think this was on a very old style primus canister. No issues since then. Also did have a primus Yellowstone? Simple stove not fire up for me. I was in the Tetons and scratching my head (not much to troubleshoot) but for the life of me would not get a flame going and gas was flowing. Maybe some blockage or debris was diverting the gas away from burner- never did figure it out and magically worked at home. Any style stove can have issues so consider an alternative stove system like alcohol or I really like esbit for backup!
 
01/22/2019 10:55PM  
butthead: "....I like to mess with stoves obviously and have some experience with a bunch. I do think this is getting off Jaywalkers original intention. My apology if I've gone off too much.
butthead"


Describing maintanace necessary to keep in good working order? I'd say that's right on point.
 
01/23/2019 07:37AM  
mastertangler: "...The problems start with the generally light wire handle which is the on/off valve for your stove. You twist it shut, the flame goes out and it's off.......only it isn't. .....
"

Learning things like this, or getting sand inside the grooves, or several other things mentioned above, are exactly why I asked this question......

mastertangler: "...Fussy? Perhaps the case could be made. I let a large brand new can leak out on my first evenings use on a 20+ day trip.
"

....and situations like this is precisely what I am trying to avoid! Hope others can too.

Thanks all.
 
01/23/2019 08:04AM  
Jaywalker: "I stand corrected; 3 out of 12 have had a canister leak at some point in time.


So how many of you would feel confident on a longer solo trip bringing a single canister? Assume it has enough fuel for 1/2 of your meals, and you plan to use wood for the other 1/2 (and no fire ban likely)?"


I backpack and canoe trip with one BRS-3000T (1-oz) stove and canister appropriate to the situation. Backpacking Ultralight, I will take a 100g canister for 5-7 nights. On those trips it's oatmeal and coffee in the am, boil enough water to reconstitute a dehydrated meal in the evening.
The backup is lighting a fire, which I don't think I have ever had to do (for cooking).

Canoe tripping I will take more fuel with the same single stove - but I go light and will cook over the fire a bunch (fish).
 
yellowcanoe
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01/23/2019 08:05AM  
Thanks BH: the advice I was looking for.. And hopefully it will help others never have problems with their canister stoves.. Operator error, well that is another topic.
 
BuckFlicks
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01/24/2019 04:03PM  
I converted to pocket rocket cannister stoves around 2000 after having used an MSR Whisperlite for over a decade.

I never looked back. The Whisperlite was super reliable, never failed on me once. But I had a lot of minor issues with it... potentially messy fuel system, lots of moving parts, priming the pump, etc. Once I switched to cannister style, I never looked back. I've never had a can leak, but we always break down the stove after it's cooled down and pack it up with the fuel, even if we plan on using it again in the morning. We try not to leave any loose items around camp that aren't in the tent.

Stability: we put the cannister on the fuel grate, centered over a 4 way intersection of the grate lines. This will give you some stability. It does raise the stove up higher, to have to potentially deal with more wind, but wind screens are useful for any kind of stove and I always bring one. Another solution we tried that worked well was to place the stove on the ground on the downwind side of the fire pit so the wall of the pit blocked the wind, then set small/medium size rocks around the canister to add stability.
 
gravelroad
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01/26/2019 09:51AM  
Jaywalker: "I’m considering picking up a canister stove for a possible trip next summer to save a bit of weight and space, probably a Pocket Rocket 2 or similar (please, don’t want to get into preferences on brand here - there’s plenty of that in other threads). For years I’ve used my MSR Whisperlight and I’m very comfortable with it’s use. That said, I’ve learned some hard lessons about it’s use that usually are not spelled out in reviews - and some of these lessons I’ve learned the hard way. Examples being:

- be careful in very cold weather as it it not impossible to break the plunger (been there)
- don’t connect to an old Sigg fuel bottle; it may look like a good fit but can leak when preasurized (done that)
- don’t overfill the primer cup or you can have an uncontrolled flame (especially bad on a kitchen counter!).

So what I am wondering is what are the potential pitfalls and fails associated with a simple canister stove? What can go wrong? I won’t be using in the cold so that is not an issue for me. The two things I’ve found in my reading are:

1. be careful screwing in as it’s possible to mis-align and damage the threads, and

2. don’t leave the stove connected to the canister overnight as its possible fuel will escape.

So are these common issues or flukes? Do you leave your stove screwed in overnight? What other things should be on this list of possible problems? I’d rather learn here than in the field.
"


Buy one all-season stove and be done with it:

SVEA 123

Mine is still going strong fifty years after my parents gave it to me. Ignore all the hoopla about priming with an eyedropper or straw. I heat the bottom of the tank with a match in summer and a candle in winter to prime it with a little fuel in the cup.

And I bring our Whisperlite only when I figure on being wind-bound without anything else available to occupy my mind and curse at ...
 
NotLight
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01/26/2019 09:54PM  
Test all canisters before your trip. Had a full one that wouldnt release gas.

Boiled over food can clog jets. Cleaning stove head cold, with a bristle brush and water, usually fixes this. head of a small toothbrush in my stove’s pouch for this.

You need a tall windscreen that won’t trap heat and overheat the canister. (Kaboom)

Get the 3 legged canister stand. It’ll tip eventually otherwise.
 
SourisMan
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01/27/2019 07:22AM  
dsk: "
Jaywalker:
2. don’t leave the stove connected to the canister overnight as its possible fuel will escape.


"



Sometimes the valve on the canister leaks, and it may be better to leave the stove connected, this has happened for me several times.


dsk"


+1
I had a canister that refused to seal, but that only happened one time. I was base camping, so not a big deal. It would have been a pain if I was traveling each day.
 
dsk
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01/27/2019 07:30AM  
mastertangler: "The canister "leaks"are typically user error. ...."

Not always, but often. I have had this problem 3 or 4 times, one with a brand new canister, and I found no obvious reason. The other times dirt or rust in the valve, old canisters stored with no care, and no cap on the tread. One of them was refilled, and probably worn out. (I tried refilling one from 3 other with a little in, makes it easier to use all of it.) So have learned to refill in to the newest canister, (and ofcourse not to full, max 80%).

Jut to not take off the burner has solved the problem each time. When I turn off the burner it is tight, no leaks. (regulary inspection of o-rings, and grasing with silicone grease on the regulation spindle.)

When I no admit to do all this on the edge fetlings, as mentioned before my favorite burner is the Coleman Apex ii, and I have also made a valve hose adapter so I may use the Apex burner on a canister, works great, and when it is cold, I may wait a minute and then turn the canister upside down and use the liquid isobutane.

At the end of this, I have a good experience by doing this, but can not recommend you to take the risks, so if you do, it is on your own risk.

dsk
 
mgraber
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01/27/2019 12:18PM  
I switched to canister from liquid fuel about 13 years ago and have found them to be much more reliable overall. Just be diligent about keeping debris out of valve( replace cap on canister when unscrewed and keep stove inside of bag or container). There are disadvantages of course. One thing I'll throw out there when speaking of MSR stoves, We have found that you can travel lighter with a Wind Pro2 than a Pocket Rocket because the wind screen saves a ridiculous amount of fuel and more than makes up for the 3-4 oz difference in weight. It also has a stand which holds the canister upside down for cold weather use( worked good at 21 degrees). Quiet and fully adjustable.MSR customer service has also been top notch, replacing parts at no cost on stoves 6-7 years old. BE CAREFUL NOT TO CROSS THREAD CANISTERS, my wife did this which is the only reason I have ever needed parts. Pocket Rocket is our back up but never needed, could also be nice if cooking two things at once. WindPro2 is still very compact when folded and much easier to level and keep pans on than Pocket Rocket.
 
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