Apologies for cross posting this to multiple forums but I know the membership doesn't always overlap and there are opinions I respect on all of them.

I've had sciatic pain for a year now due to bulged discs. It's pretty bad and I haven't seen any improvement. In fact it's gotten a little worse in the last couple months. I've been seeing a spine specialist and we're about out of more conservative options. He recommended I speak with a neurosurgeon, which I did, and he said if I elect to go ahead with surgery that I'd be looking at a disc fusion. For sure L4/L5 and probably L5/S1 as well.

Curious to hear from others who have had similar procedures how this has affected your paddling and tripping. How long after recovery did you feel comfortable doing a strenuous trip? Or don't you feel comfortable with it?

Alan

Alan

Last February in the middle of the month I had spinal fusion surgery. The first thing I asked the doctor was his opinion on throwing a 44 lb. canoe and pack on my back by the beginning of June. He did not see a problem but let me know time would tell, and of course x-rays after the surgery. My last follow up appointment was the same day I planned on leaving for the BWCA. The surgery went great and i am glad my true boss encourage me to do it. Wish I would have had the surgery sooner. After the last follow up appointment my better half and i were leaving Kansas City with the canoe strapped to top of vehicle and headed for the best therapy out there......clear lakes and some of the best of our wilderness.

Btw...no issues during the trip.

I cared for post-surgical back patients. I know this is not what you asked, but I would carefully research the surgeon you select. Ask around. Look at satisfaction scores. Ideally, ask health care professionals who they would pick if they were having surgery.

Alan,

Are you in the Chicago/suburbs area? I have had 3 spinal surgeries due to bulging discs. 2 I needed to relieve the pain I was in, the third was to fix the second one about 10 days later. I had an amazing surgeon, and I would recommend him to anyone that needs any kind of back surgery/opinion.

Took me a while to feel good again. That being said, I have completed more trips after surgery than before and have felt great on most days. PT post surgery is HUGE. It sucks, but it needs to be done. After a little while, you will feel like yourself again, that is when you need to be careful. The urge to do too much because you feel good is strong! Take it slow and easy, listen to your doctor and your body. You will know when to stop or not.

Best of luck with this - if you need another voice, feel free to reach out and I can give you my number so we can chat. God bless.

Brandon

Get a second and possibly third opinion.

I understand that with chronic pain, or recurrent back pain, the promise of definitive relief can be alluring. However, many clinical studies demonstrate no difference after 3, 4 even 10 years comparing spinal fusion to cognitive/behavior therapy and/ or exercise. Spinal fusion has even been shown to covey 2.5 times the risk of permanent disability compared to non-surgical interventions. In fact, many surgeons now require cognitive/behavioral therapy with surgery to bolster their outcomes.

I am not an MD, researcher or statistician so, there are likely many confounding aspects of these studies that I failed to consider or comprehend.

My pain is cervical/ thoracic and attributable to a college wrestling injury. It now only flares up for a few weeks every other year or so. I was steered away from surgery years ago and grateful I was.

Good Luck

Alan,

I had a spinal fusion surgery on December 10th, 2018. I decided to have surgery after my chiropractor recommended I get an mri since my pain would not get better after being treated by her for the last 2 - 3 years. I had been going to a chiropractor regularly for 5 - 6 years and more infrequently since I was 18. I think various things contributed to this issue but a mountain biking accident 15 years ago probably was the straw that finally broke my back. I am now 41. I also bought a teeter inversion table to try to decompress my spine and was gettting massages to try to relieve locked up muscles in lower back. I was in pain with a stabbing/prying feeling in my back and radiating pain down into my right leg. At times my leg would go numb or feel dead.

The radiologist who read my mri told me that I had spodyloslisthesis at L4. Basically the back (facets) broke off my vertebrate and it was sliding forward relative to the other vertebrate. My discs were herniated at L4/L5 and L5/S1. I had degenerative disc disease and spinal stenosis. I was so relieved to find out something was seriously wrong with my back. I had thought my body was just in pain from getting older or that it was just in my head. I knew that suppressing my pain was affecting my patience and relationships with people. The radiologist wanted to inject my spine to numb pain but I opted not to.

I had an opinion from 1 orthopedic - spine surgeon and two neurosurgeons in MN. All came to the same conclusion that a spinal fusion/discektomy could relieve my pain
/stabilize my spine. I did not want to just get one opinion because I consider surgery a serious thing to undertake. The first O. surgeon told me I would be out of commission for three months. His method would involve one large incision down back and a lot of impact to core muscles. He said I would need to due a lot of p.t. to get muscles back in shape and that if I did not do that other fusions would probably be necessary. I asked him what worst case scenario might be if I continued without surgery and it was that the nerves might get pinched so bad that my leg would die/foot would drop, etc.

1st neurosurgeon would not touch the fusion part of surgery, but said that spinal fusion would probably be best option for me if pain was equally cumbersome in back and leg.

Finally I went to try to see 2nd neurosurgeon. There were a lot of hoops to jump through including meeting with 2 physiatrists that recommended I not get surgery, but in the end it was worth the wait. When I finally got to meet Neurosurgeon he told me about his less invasive method and use of robotics during surgery for mapping incisions and placing screws. He told me the risk of future fusions would be lessened because he would avoid cutting paraspinals as much as possible. He also told me that he could not guarantee my leg would get stronger, but he could ensure it would not atrophy any worse. They would not do both levels at the same time, they said they did not want to do too much at once.

I asked the doctor if there would be anything I could not do after surgery. I told him about canoe tripping and he said as long as I followed his instructions, wore the brace as directed, and allowed fusion to take hold (1 year no high impact sports/canoe tripping) that I could canoe-trip, play pickup basketball, etc. I would just lose a little flexibility as a result of fusion.

I had the surgery and to fuse L4 and L5 with 4 screws and two rods, they removed disc in between and placed graft and spacer. Immediately I felt the relief in back and leg pain when I stood up and walked the night of my surgery. I quit the pain meds 3.5 days after surgery. I walked 10 miles one day - a week and a half after surgery and knew that they had fixed me right. Previously, after a mile or two I would be in so much pain that I would quit walking. I also knew there was a serious problem last summer when I would fall down in pain after half-way push mowing my lawn (third of acre).

I can not comment on tripping after fusion after healing, since I am still healing. I can tell you my persistent pain is gone. The nerves have more space now due to removal of impinging disc, rods and screws spacing vertebrate appropriately, and spacer in between vertebrate. Walking is the only p.t. I can do right now and I have already walked 125 miles and I am about 7 weeks out. I am not supposed to bend, lift, or twist, or lift more than 10 pounds. I only take brace off when sleeping and have to sleep on back or side.

I go in to see doctor to get x-ray and see if I can start weaning off brace in a couple weeks. I already know that portaging will be more comfortable as walking has already felt better. I will be smarter about my pack weights, pull the trigger on buying a Lightweight canoe, and be more cognizant about my overall fitness.

Sorry about my long post, but I am thrilled with my results so far. I was pretty scared as I researched lumbar fusions online and found quite a few people that were not happy with results. I also know people in my family that had it done, but ended up having more pain. But this was more so due to the fact that they did not follow restrictions while fusion was supposed to be fusing.

I believe my surgeons methods spared me of a lot of destabilization of my core. I am happy that I don’t have to worry about my leg. That could have definitely ended my canoe-tripping had I waited too long. I am grateful my prayers were answered and hopeful I will keep progressing along. Looking forward to multiple trips in 2020.

Good luck

My wife has had both cervical and lumber fusions. Prior to the lumbar fusion she could not stand for more than 5 minutes or walk 300'. The surgery did not return her back to age 20 indestructible status, but she was able to do the Falls Chain in Quetico 2 years after surgery. Take things slow and steady and listen to your body. After you finish PT, Stretch and do what you learned in PT every day.

I have had L4-L5-S1 fused - 2 years ago - Wish I had done it sooner. I can paddle for hours - carry 35+ pounds and walk 2+ miles. I can't say enough about picking the right Doc!!!
If you are in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, Tria Orthopedic, Dr. Kevin Mullaney. I am a retired nurse and did my research both on paper and with surgical and ortho nurse friends. I have had both knees replaced, shoulder rotator cuff rebuilt, several hand surgeries and the back fusion. I still paddle - sometimes slowly, but I am there!

I am a nurse, as well. I think that is why we are both saying----pick the right surgeon if you move forward. : ) Before nursing, I thought most doctors and surgeons were all at a basic level of competency, while some may be superior. It simply is not always the case. Some health care professionals have a "reputation" for repetitive issues with care. That is why it is always best to get some insider information, if possible.

I'll also second the second and third opinions. As everyone commenting knows, it is a balance of risk versus benefit. As you face more pain and disability, the risk gamble does go up. And, the decision is never a one size fits all, of course.

I took care of people who had complications, so I can't objectively comment, as that is not a fair and balanced sample. I am VERY glad to hear of these success stories.

Thank you all so much for the responses so far. It's so nice to hear of some fusion success stories. Lots of scary stuff when reading online but I suppose it's like anything. People are more vocal when things go wrong and obviously the people who have not had a successful operation are out looking to find out why and the people with successful operations are out enjoying themselves.

I'll certainly be getting some other opinions before committing to surgery. This has been going on a year now (started by trying to lift some things I shouldn't have been trying to lift). Have been seeing a spine/back specialist regularly who has prescribed 5 weeks of physical therapy and a couple cortisone shots. The only relief I've gotten was from the first cortisone shot that lasted a few weeks. I've got bulged discs at L4/L5 and L5/S1 that are giving me sciatic pain in both legs but predominantly the right. The muscles in my right leg are very tight and nothing I've done can get my hamstrings to loosen up for more than 5 minutes.

My doctor finally recommended I see a neurosurgeon to get his opinion, which is what I did last week. He said if I only had pain on one side he'd recommend a microdiscectomy but since I have pain on both sides it would weaken the joint too much to do both sides and likely cause worse problems later. That's why he said fusion is his recommended approach if I choose to go forward. He recommended I exhaust other conservative methods first, namely an inversion table and acupuncture. The inversion table was a bust and I'm starting acupuncture this week.

If I was someone who wasn't active I could probably get by the way I am but as it is I can't do some of my job responsibilities and can't do many of my hobbies. Some things, like taking down trees, cutting firewood, and running the sawmill I can do if I'm slow and careful but other things, like building a new shop and house or canoe tripping are out of the question. Even walking, which I really enjoy, sometimes brings a lot of pain.

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Alan

Yeah, that sucks. Sounds like it is very limiting to your function. I am really sorry to hear that you are in such pain.

Sounds like you are doing everything that you can. Perhaps the acupuncture specialist might have some complementary medicine approaches to try. For pain, some techniques can bring a lot of relief for people. Regardless, I wish you the best outcomes possible! Surgery techniques keep improving, also. Amazing how far we have come.

I had a spinal fusion in August of 2008 at L5. The first 3 months you have to lay low and your therapy. By summer of 2009 I was canoeing again and feeling strong. I was 58 at the time. I did not experience.any back issues until 2012. Until then, I kept going on trips with no problem. In 2012 I messed up a muscle in my lower vertebrae from Choping wood in a reckless way, ie swinging the axe too hard and not in a smooth motion. This problem was corrected by physical therapy. Since then I have been on several canoe trips to the Q. What I have done is to get lighter equipment, go slower, be more careful, and finally, select less demanding trips. Bottom line, the spinal fusion for me was not a major impediment that impacted my wilderness canoeing and camping. Best

Another "survivor"! Over the years had started to develop issues to the point on my trips I was taking my wife's prescribed Ibuprofen among other over the counter pain pills. Arm/shoulder would get numb and stiff pain. Long story short Fall 2017 my symptoms became so bad I could not lay in bed, sharp extreme pain; worst thing I have experienced to date. After months of chiropractor, physical therapy, and two MRI's they finally told me L5/L6 disk buldge/rupture. Two weeks after my second MRI i went under, first time ever. I cannot tell you how happy I was after the surgery. One week at home and back to the office, desk job. If I had still been working the shop floor I would have taken 4-6 weeks. By the way my pain was so bad I had to get a "veri" desk because I could not sit at computer, had to stand, that helped.

Believe I had the fusion in Feb.2018 and wife and I took 7 day trip up past Malberg. We where worried on how I would do and planned for the worst, but I felt great and weather was in our favor so 9hrs of paddling and portaging without issues. Haven't had any issues since surgery. As others have said look at and research the surgeons.
DWD

I went in for my surgery on April 1st. It was 2 level fusion (L4/L5 and L5/S1) and they entered from the front (ALIF). They also made a small incision in my back to trim away some bone and add hardware. I woke up from surgery with no back pain (but plenty of surgical pain). They had me up walking the halls twice the day of surgery and let me go home on April 3rd.

After reading so many horror stories online I've been pleasantly surprised with my recovery. I was on a light medication regimen (Tramadol and Tylenol) for the first two weeks and since then nothing other than an occasional muscle relaxer. The first week I spent on my back a lot but got up often to shuffle around the house. Dressing and taking care of myself were slow but doable. After 2 weeks I was driving and went back to work part time, taking time off during the day to go home any lay down for a while before coming back.

It's about 3 1/2 weeks after surgery now and every day gets better. I've been walking a lot (doctors orders) and it feels so nice to get out again (wasn't able to go for walks for about 3 months before surgery). There is still some back and leg pain but compared to what I had been dealing with it's nothing and it keeps getting better. There is still a long recovery ahead but I'm very optimistic.

There won't be any canoe trips this year but it sure would be nice to head back north in 2020.

Alan

That sounds like good news! Have read your trip report out of Wollaston Lake, I think it was, and you have done some cool paddling. Hope you are able to get in somemore, whcn the time is right. This site is blessed to have the expertise of nurses like Portage99 and others and the positive input of people who have been down that road.

Glad to hear it went well and you are getting better.

This thread has been very informative to me I have s herniated and compressed disc in C6 C7 I have had 3 spinal injections in the last year and I did physical therapy with two different outfits and I can tell you the facility that you do your physical therapy at can make all the difference in the world. I won’t mention the first place but I will mention the excellent one and that is Physicians Neck and Back Clinic. They have offices in multiple areas in the Twin Cities I go to the Woodbury one but they are world Class .

Basspro69: I did physical therapy with two different outfits and I can tell you the facility that you do your physical therapy at can make all the difference in the world.

I think you're right. The last thing I did before committing to surgery was see a physical therapist at a hospital that specialized in back/spine issues. I felt he had a deeper knowledge and that he could tell a lot about what was going on inside of me based on my feedback in response to stretches he was asking me to do. After 45 minutes he said he didn't think there was anything he'd be able to do for me. Hearing that was a huge relief because I didn't want to spend another month doing physical therapy with no results.

Of course he also had multiple x-rays, MRI's, and doctors' opinions over the past year to help base that decision on.

Early on in this process I'd done physical therapy locally in our small town and it kind of felt like we kept hitting our heads against the wall. I wasn't really getting any improvement (and some things got worse) and we just kept trying the same things.

Based on how my problem progressed and what they found during surgery I don't think there's anything they could have done to improve my situation but maybe we could have figured out sooner that I was dealing with something different than expected.

Despite being a 2 hour drive to Sioux Falls I think that's where I'll be going when it's time for the physical therapy portion of my recovery.

Alan

Alan, glad to hear you are doing well. Hope a full recovery finds you back on the waves real soon!

I've continued to improve and I had my 3 month follow up visit with the doc last week. They took more x-rays and said everything looks good. He told me at this point the fusion should be set and there is little chance of damaging it. He said I can start doing whatever I can tolerate. So I have been and it feels great to finally be doing something!

Been cutting up some downed trees and hauling logs to my sawmill (skid loader is doing the real work) and now I'm in the process of tearing down my rotten old garage to build a new shop in its place. I still have some pain and need to be careful about what I do but the last week has seen a lot of improvement with the increased mobility and no pain or soreness as a result.

I'm hoping by next spring to be as healed as I'm going to get and that I'll trust my back enough to start canoe tripping again.

Alan

That's good to hear, Alan. I hope it continues to go well and you're out there paddling and tripping in the future. Good luck.

Alan Gage: "I'm hoping by next spring to be as healed as I'm going to get and that I'll trust my back enough to start canoe tripping again.
Alan"

I think I would have started with canoe tripping and hoped I was well enough to tear down the old garage next spring! :-D

Back in 78 my pops was in a motorcycle accident and broke 7 disks and 5 vertebrae. They took his Adam rib and fused it along with two metal rods to his spine. (Thank you U of M) First trip to BDubs was in 82 and he has made around 20 trips. Next one in about 5 weeks.

D

Alan, Thanks for the post. I had similar questions. I actually had a disc Extrusion of the L4/L5 and bulging L3/L4. After consulting with Surgeons I opted for Micro Disectomy Surgery of the L4/L5 in March of this year. I had originally planned a return to MN in Jul and was going to try a trip. I am now going to hold off until possibly Sept or Next year. I now live in SC so putting off trip is not a huge deal. Pain is gone and strength is back in the right leg. My doctor stated for my type of surgery for first 3 months be extremely cautious. After 6 months I should be able to do anything I want. Just listen to my body and it will tell me. I appreciate all the answers as I now feel more comfortable about returning this year instead of waiting..... I really need to get back up to the greatest place in the world BWCA.....Hope all goes well with your surgery Alan..I am glad I had mine.

Thanks Alan!

Had my lower three fused in September of 2017 and was surfing in December. I have hiked the PCT and canoe camped countless times since. Getting a years worth of firewood can make things stiff but you need to go easy. Having the lower three done makes touching my toes tough so you need to stay limber. Get a trusted doctor and if you need it done, get it done, the earlier the better. I'm in my sixties and I wouldn't want to have that surgery done in my seventies. It hurts and the pain killers were essential and the doctor and physical therapist encouraged me to take them, small doses frequently. I'm not a big opioid guy because they are so binding and that was the biggest problem, even with the medicine they give you for that reason. I'm glad I had the procedure done.

This is an old thread.

I’ve had herniated disks in my lower back. Went to a surgeon, and he told me how he was going to go in from the front. Scared the crap out of me and. Ran out of his office and never looked back.

Found an amazing group of physical therapists and the worked on me for a few months. They asked what my desired out come was and I said “I just want to be able to portage a canoe”.

That was 25 years ago and 50 trips ago!

Tom