BWCA Toboggan packing troubles Boundary Waters Winter Camping and Activities
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dhfish
member (41)member
  
01/29/2019 12:29PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Went camping the second weekend in January. Was expecting the cold to be the most difficult part. Turns out that packrats bringing too much gear through powder up and down hills is the worst!

Ended up bailing out before setting up camp the second night, just because it seemed like less work to get all the way back to the car than to set up camp and take it down in the morning.

Details: EP19 - about a mile and a half of hills before you get to flat river.
Toboggans each carrying over a hundred pounds. I know this seems stupid but we had been testing on flat ground and it really didn't matter how much weight we pulled, it was fine.
One of the toboggans kept twisting in the front- turning into a snowplow. I figure it was due to weight distribution?

Heres my question- How do you all handle hilly terrain in the winter? Less gear will be a main player next time (we figured we can drop 80lbs! ha we are dumb...) but are there other options we should be thinking about as well? Besides flat ground that is. I cannot just get beat like that.

Dhfish
 
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Gadfly
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01/29/2019 04:08PM  
Hills, twists and turns can cause issues for a toboggan. I found this out a few years ago as well on a trip up to wine lake. Before my next trip I bought a tank/bag from Lure of the North and it has made a big difference. A tank will help to keep your gear from shifting and your sled from leaning. Not sure if you were wearing snow shoes but they also help create a path for the sled. I also have rope on the back of the toboggan that I hold onto when going down large hills.
Mnpat
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01/29/2019 07:27PM  
Nothing worse than a sled that doesn’t track well. In the winter you will need to portage on most routes. I much prefer a pulk sled over a toboggan. The length of the toboggan makes tight turns difficult. Fiberglass poles help keep your sled out of the trees,from running you over and you can steer your sled by twisting your hips. Skiing the down hills can be a lot of fun. Use compact gear. Put Everything possible into compression bags. Heaviest items on the bottom. I can fit a hot tent, all fishing and camping gear onto my pulk for a 4 day solo trip no problem.

Leave the extra 30 lbs of crap at the car.


01/29/2019 09:41PM  
I use aluminum poles for my sled,I would think fiberglass,sooner or later will break. There are many options going downhill from having a rope to the back end of a sled while you go down hill and someone controlling that. I also unhook my belt and poles from waist and reverse my poles to the back steering downhill.
Yes you can't get top heavy or even have a super narrow sled that tips. There is a nice compromise. I think super short sleds tip easy also.
I use a bunch of bungee cord to secure my load. Even if it tips over nothing falls off.
dhfish
member (41)member
  
01/30/2019 11:57AM  
Mnpat: "In the winter you will need to portage on most routes.
"


I hadn't thought of that. It sounds terrible! Maybe the best option though.

I think next time we will put one guy in front and one guy behind the toboggan, and do a double trip. We tried to keep going and switch who was in the lead, but still got really burnt out.
dhfish
member (41)member
  
01/30/2019 12:04PM  
The last straw was a fallen tree where we had to go through the woods to one side. We did the first one and decided not to go any further.
01/30/2019 02:58PM  
Crossing land can be a real pain. The snow is often deep, turns are especially frustrating.

HDPE toboggans with rigid sides do help. I made 3, 8' toboggans and they do better than my longer 11' soft toboggan.

On the toboggan that was plowing snow, maybe simply adjusting the ropes or putting the heavy things in back would help.

Everything is tougher in the winter. Next year it will be easier for you with less of a load. I will try to weigh my stuff before going next week. I don't think 100lbs is too much to have on a toboggan though.
Mnpat
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01/30/2019 11:51PM  
The fiberglass poles are going to break long after the aluminum poles would. I use 1/2” the same ones recommended by skipulk.com. Adding poles to my sled was the biggest gear improvement I have done. No more wasting time and energy on the portages. Going over fallen trees, no problem. Not having my sled get stuck in the trees, priceless.

100 lbs may fit on the toboggan but it’s beyond what I consider a reasonable load. If your going a mile or two from the car no problem otherwise good luck. I am usually 7 miles or more from the car to where I camp. Depending on conditions I try and stay between 50 to 65 pounds total weight max.
The toboggans having a flat bottom is a big negative on the portages. The trails aren’t flat and causes the sled to be in the trees.


My gear has been refined from 30+ winter trips. I was able to do it with the wrong gear but I am much more comfortable now with the right stuff. You can make a some nice gear at home for cheap.
01/31/2019 07:58AM  
I used aluminum poles for 40 years we have on 3 sleds zero breaks. I have seen fiberglass sleds come out with broken poles. maybe depends on fiberglass makeup type?
Arcola
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01/31/2019 09:04AM  
....or if you fall on them?
dhfish
member (41)member
  
01/31/2019 11:07AM  
Are you using poles with a toboggan or a sled (pulk)? We thought about them but didn't see poles even for sale on most of the sites selling toboggans, and thought they would be if they were needed.

I did build the toboggans. It was fun and not too hard. Ended up getting a UHMWPE blank cut into 3 pieces. Still have one to build.

I also thought about putting sides on, but have not seen a way to do that.
01/31/2019 12:07PM  
I am using the esmco sled sled-

Actually the sleds are also like 20 years old and tough as nails. Some of the new ones are brittle.
Myself I got aluminum poles from hardware store and than purchased a ski-jouring belt used by the ski-dog people.

Maybe they have the fiberglass pole rigs now so they don't get brittle in cold also? I don't know.
02/01/2019 10:02AM  
Mnpat: "The fiberglass poles are going to break long after the aluminum poles would. I use 1/2” the same ones recommended by skipulk.com. Adding poles to my sled was the biggest gear improvement I have done. No more wasting time and energy on the portages. Going over fallen trees, no problem. Not having my sled get stuck in the trees, priceless.

100 lbs may fit on the toboggan but it’s beyond what I consider a reasonable load. If your going a mile or two from the car no problem otherwise good luck. I am usually 7 miles or more from the car to where I camp. Depending on conditions I try and stay between 50 to 65 pounds total weight max.
The toboggans having a flat bottom is a big negative on the portages. The trails aren’t flat and causes the sled to be in the trees.



My gear has been refined from 30+ winter trips. I was able to do it with the wrong gear but I am much more comfortable now with the right stuff. You can make a some nice gear at home for cheap.
"


Mnpat,
I am always looking for ways to lighten my load. Can you tell me how much your tent and stove weighs? My Snowtrekker is about 27lbs. My stove is about 25. So those two things pretty much maxes me out according to your weights. Axe, saw, clothing food, beer etc.

Maybe we should make a distinction between cold camping and hot tenting, which I think are two totally different topics within winter camping. It is easy to get a cold camping load down to 50 or 60 pounds.

If the OP is cold camping with a load of well over 100lbs, then yes, I would agree there is room to trim some weight.
dhfish
member (41)member
  
02/01/2019 11:09AM  
Hot tent.

Those other people are nuts.
Gadfly
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02/01/2019 11:13AM  
I don't think 100 pounds is unreasonable. I have a TI stove so I typically can keep my sled in the 75 to 80 range but when I am taking shorter trips and not as concerned about weight I know I've have the sled over 100 pounds. If you know you will be breaking trail on a portage its a good idea to lighten the sled up any way possible. If you are on a well packed path its not as much of an issue.

Mnpat
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02/01/2019 06:16PM  
My tent with center pole and stakes is 5 lbs. if I camp on land I can leave the stakes and center pole at home so then 2 lbs 12 ounces.
Complete sleep setup 6.5 lbs for all temps.
For long trips 12 lb stove. I plan on getting a lighter stove soon.


DanCooke
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02/01/2019 08:12PM  
My toboggan total is under 55 I believe,
15 lbs Stove and rolled pipe, 6 lb tent , 4 lb ground cloth, 10 lbs spare clothing, 6 lbs for hatchet and saw, 2 lbs tarp, 10lbs camera and tripod. Thermos and cozy cover Nalgene round out my load.
Toboggan is 1/8" uhmw, with 1/4" uhmw running down the length of both sides. 1/2" fiberglass detachable poles. All the stuff goes in a long tank bag with end pockets.
Food and pots and pans, shovel goes on anothers sled, fishing gear and auger on another sled.
 
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