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MooseTrack
distinguished member(576)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:36AM
PERMIT UPDATE!!!! just sent to the outfitters by the US Forest Service.

All – I spoke with the Forest Supervisor. We will reverse all internal and external transactions of course for fairness and close BWCAW reservations until further notice. A banner will show up shortly on the site. Our public affairs is speaking with media.

Again, the Forest has done everything asked of us the last 14 months. We don’t know why this happened, but we will keep you updated as we are updated. All previous tests the last few months pointed to success for today.

We are sick over it as well. A ton of work has gone into this; including working through furlough. We’ve done all we can to prepare and follow national direction.

Ann Schwaller
Natural Resources Forest Wilderness Program Manager
Superior National Forest Supervisor’s Office
Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness

National Wilderness Advisory Group, Region 9
Society for Wilderness Stewardship Board Member
 
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Duboly
distinguished member (323)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:42AM
Thanks for the update Moosetrack!
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:42AM
Reversing all the permits is fair though I'm sure many people will have tantrums about it. (so did we to a certain point).

The FS did work with rec.gov, as did we all, and the techies from rec.gov just were not up to it with ability to program it for the frenzy of the first day. (hope it was "only" the first day frenzy and not something that would have blown up with "normal" use.

People set aside time to reserve permits online & by phone. Cooperators set up time & employees this morning to work. Now we'll have to reschedule it all again!

Everyone is not happy, but the best thing is to take a deep breath and hope for the best. (when it opens/is working). I understand this all but my patience for the website people (again, not the FS) is wearing thin.

Cocktails/Prozac anyone? :-) :-( Deep breaths can only help "so much".
scat
distinguished member(733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:44AM
Thanks. Of course been trying since 9 am. Oh well, I’m sure it will be fine in the end. Keep us posted.
airmorse
distinguished member(2599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:50AM
So does that message mean that those who were able to reserve permits those reservations are now void?
HayRiverDrifter
distinguished member(868)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 10:59AM
It sounds like any transactions that went through will be 'reversed', so they will be reversing all credit card transactions? What a mess. Glad I was not able to reserve a permit.
01/30/2019 11:02AM
airmorse: "So does that message mean that those who were able to reserve permits those reservations are now void?"

It would appear so. Here is a post from Sawbill's Facebook page:

"PERMIT UPDATE: We have just been informed by the Forest Service that due to the extent of the technical difficulties and inconsistencies in functionality of the reservation platform, all successful permit reservations are going to be voided and the system is being closed until the issues are worked out. They will offer notification when the system will go live again. If you have already reserved a permit, we recommend holding tight to see what happens, but be prepared to re-apply for your permit. We'll update as we learn more. In the mean time, enjoy the crisp weather!"
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 11:02AM
airmorse: "So does that message mean that those who were able to reserve permits those reservations are now void?"

Yes, all permits that happened to "make it" will be voided and all fees refunded. All the entries will have a full quota available when it finally opens up.
airmorse
distinguished member(2599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 11:02AM
Has there been any talk of when they will open the site back up.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 11:04AM
airmorse: "Has there been any talk of when they will open the site back up. "

No, but think they will be giving us at least a full days "heads up" notice.
airmorse
distinguished member(2599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 11:13AM
VoyageurNorth: "airmorse: "Has there been any talk of when they will open the site back up. "


No, but think they will be giving us at least a full days "heads up" notice."


Well i hope so. I was good for making reservations today, tomorrow not so much.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 11:25AM
airmorse: "VoyageurNorth: "airmorse: "Has there been any talk of when they will open the site back up. "



No, but think they will be giving us at least a full days "heads up" notice."



Well i hope so. I was good for making reservations today, tomorrow not so much."


Me too Airmorse, but I had 8 employees (5 more than normal) all ready to help this morning. No one is going to be happy with having to be ready all over again. And my phone is ringing like crazy with people wondering about the permit site, permits etcetera. So, I guess some of the extra people we have is good for doing phones. sighhhhhhhh.
cowdoc
distinguished member(7753)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/30/2019 11:47AM
cooler heads will prevail.....(is it a bad day to use that phrase?)
yogi59weedr
distinguished member(2137)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 12:08PM
Cowdoc.

I prefer "off with their heads"
ellahallely
distinguished member (495)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 12:16PM
Ely Echo had written the article a week ago, they filled in the numbers and details today.


Ely Echo artical link.
01/30/2019 12:20PM
I appreciate the information MooseTrack. Thanks. I believe many people that are not BWCA.com members are unaware of the permits being void and are merrily planning their trip and putting in for vacation time. I know a guy that thought he had two Moose Lake overnight motor permits that he easily got this morning. He was feeling good about that until he read this post.

Sorry to hear of the headaches this is causing everyone especially Lynn.
alpinebrule
distinguished member (180)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 12:34PM
Sorry everyone, I'm sure it is my fault. First time "ever" I have gone for a first day permit.
"Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you" Figures
Harv
distinguished member (179)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 01:12PM
Is there any indication when the permit system will be up and running? Today, tomorrow, next week?
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 02:45PM
No news of when the site will be fixed & ready for permits, yet.

cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 03:54PM
I still have a permit confirmation and they still have my money. If I wasn't on here, I'd have no reason to think anything was up and be I'd good until my June date.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 04:16PM
cyclones30: "I still have a permit confirmation and they still have my money. If I wasn't on here, I'd have no reason to think anything was up and be I'd good until my June date. "

Eventually they will be sending you an email (I guess it is important after all to have a valid email address) or perhaps call you if the email doesn't go through. They should be telling you about the "permit no good" website crash.

They are working like crazy to contact people. But I think it is the FS who is contacting people and they probably have to get that info from the Recreation.gov site, validate the email and then send the e' message.

This time, I feel sorry for all the FS employees who are caught in the middle. I have gotten at least 50 calls today about the crashed site, own permit no good and other BWCA permit reasons, so I can "feel" for the many calls they are getting.
cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 04:38PM
I'm not in this situation but I'm sure some that got thru this morning now have plane tickets, car rental, hotel room, etc booked now that they have a date and permit.

Might as well send .gov all those cancellation charges too. Maybe BAH will pick up that tab :)
Jamie B.
Guest Paddler
 
01/30/2019 04:48PM
Status update anybody find out anything yet on the new date?
scramble4a5
distinguished member (489)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 05:04PM
I did manage to get a permit today and frankly I am not exactly happy it will be voided. Our internet went down just after I got the permit and it hasn't been back since so I have hot spotted my phone all day. I hope it comes back before they open up the permits again.

I think this is BS that they can't get a system that works. Guess I will get in line and do it again. It's not the end of the world.



VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 05:20PM
New message just received from Forest Service:

“Alert: Due to technical difficulties, reservations for the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness are closed. We are diligently working to correct the problem. Please check back for status updates. We will give advanced notification of at least 48 hours or more prior to the system going live.”

So, since 48 hours is Friday, not Friday. Doubt they will open it on a weekend, so the earliest will be Monday and may not be even then since they have to contact just about everyone (cooperators/outfitters/public) 48 hours in advance.

01/30/2019 06:32PM
Thanks for the info. Very helpful.
Boppa
01/30/2019 07:58PM
This new Rec.gov site is pure garbage, I finally figured out some work arounds for booking VNP permits, now this...... maybe it’s the same technical wizards that did MNLARS
tumblehome
distinguished member(1474)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/30/2019 08:14PM
Isn't the recreation.gov website hosted by a contractor? It's not actual government employees running the thing. Right?

It used to be a vendor that handled all the permits but I'm not in the loop like I used to be.
Tom
andym
distinguished member(4539)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/30/2019 08:17PM
Yes, it is developed and hosted by a contractor.
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2351)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 02:00AM
yogi59weedr: "Cowdoc.


I prefer "off with their heads""

Alice in Wonderland: The players all played at once without waiting for turns, quarreling all the while, and fighting for the hedgehogs; and in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting' Off with his head!'.
Why, yes. That's a quite familiar scenario to me too.
BearBurrito
distinguished member(708)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 08:26AM
I will be happy when this debacle is finally taken care of.
01/31/2019 08:52AM
Permit day seemed to go good the last few years. I wonder if the elimination of the Lottery and the addition of the Motorized Permits on Permit day had anything to do with the malfunction. A remedy may be to have a separate permit day for Motorized Permits or just forbid motors in the BWCA entirely.

Also I wonder if those who are unaware their permit could be void and have purchased plane tickets, bought equipment like a 25hp outboard, scheduled vacations, booked dog kennel services have any legal recourse if their permit becomes void. A lawyer could bring up mental duress, financial hardship and time lost for a client whose permit was voided. The Outfitters could really have a case for the stress they are enduring.
01/31/2019 09:16AM
Zulu: "Permit day seemed to go good the last few years. I wonder if the elimination of the Lottery and the addition of the Motorized Permits on Permit day had anything to do with the malfunction. A remedy may be to have a separate permit day for Motorized Permits or just forbid motors in the BWCA entirely.


Also I wonder if those who are unaware their permit could be void and have purchased plane tickets, bought equipment like a 25hp outboard, scheduled vacations, booked dog kennel services have any legal recourse if their permit becomes void. A lawyer could bring up mental duress, financial hardship and time lost for a client whose permit was voided. The Outfitters could really have a case for the stress they are enduring."





This all could have been avoided if they’d have contracted with Adam. Haha
01/31/2019 09:17AM
We should just go back to the days of calling and calling and calling because you kept getting a busy signal. I had to use a pay phone one time. Those where the days
ellahallely
distinguished member (495)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 09:30AM
Zulu: "Permit day seemed to go good the last few years. I wonder if the elimination of the Lottery and the addition of the Motorized Permits on Permit day had anything to do with the malfunction. A remedy may be to have a separate permit day for Motorized Permits or just forbid motors in the BWCA entirely.


Also I wonder if those who are unaware their permit could be void and have purchased plane tickets, bought equipment like a 25hp outboard, scheduled vacations, booked dog kennel services have any legal recourse if their permit becomes void. A lawyer could bring up mental duress, financial hardship and time lost for a client whose permit was voided. The Outfitters could really have a case for the stress they are enduring."


Forbid the motorboats? They have as much legal right there as you. They were promised that the bwca would always be open to motorboats.


Also I might point out the motorboats are the bread and butter to the people and businesses of Ely. They bring in a very large share of the money generated by the bwca. Banning them would be stabbing the people of Ely in the back. Even more businesses would be closing there doors. Many of the outfitters hired extra people to work to secure permits, I feel for them.


Rumor has it one of the extreme groups took down the system on purpose. Just saying what I was told. I was told this would happen weeks ago and posted about it. I also posted a link to an article written way back in November saying the new system would be chaos. However the tread was deleted. Many people expressed concern with the forest service about the new system working, we were promised it would. Go figure.
Harv
distinguished member (179)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 11:49AM
When FS (group) came to Ely this past year to discuss the new permit system...what was the ladies name who is head of the office in Duluth? I believe she stood up and said something like "it's my call, I'm in charge, if anything goes wrong I'll take the heat". Well...has she said a word yet about yet?

I apologize, I don't remember her name. I may have to go back to old Ely Echo article to find it.

As for banning motors all together...that wasn't a well thought out response. Nice reply back Ellahall.

TGO- do you remember the name?
scat
distinguished member(733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 03:47PM
No panic here. I’m not going till June. That gives them four months to figure it out. Or am I being optimistic. If they can’t figure it out by then I’ll go somewhere else, closer and still almost as cool. Whatever.

I like the extremist theory. Whatever that is. Why do the extremists always ruin the fun? It’s like a worldwide phenomenon. Dumbass extremists. Clowns!!!
Mocha
distinguished member(7335)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/31/2019 04:11PM
it seems every time they use a new contractor there is this issue with crashing on opening day. why can't they just keep using the same contractor? like everything FS... once things become nice and comfortable they have to make a change that upsets the apple cart.
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/31/2019 05:38PM
Mocha, I heard that the redesign was partly in an effort to keep our private data more secure. Wonder how that went? :-)
andym
distinguished member(4539)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/31/2019 05:46PM
Banning motors is a bad idea for the economic reasons already stated. Paddlers pass through town quickly. The day use motor folks stick around, rent cabins, pay guides, and go to restaurants. The town needs these folks.

A separate day for motor permits versus paddle permits could make it much easier to keep the system up. That could be a good idea. Although, I suspect reinstating the lottery would be even better. But separate days could probably even be implemented next week.
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2351)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 06:03PM
Mocha: "it seems every time they use a new contractor there is this issue with crashing on opening day. why can't they just keep using the same contractor? like everything FS... once things become nice and comfortable they have to make a change that upsets the apple cart."
Same thoughts and same questions going thru my head since I first read of this revision.
Ya. The birth of an innovative concept is a mightly thing to suppress. I imagine someone sitting in a cubby-hole office. Bored to tears. The tick-tock of the clock on the wall seems suddenly louder. The worker-bee abruptly stops doing 360 twirls in the office chair. Bam! a light bulb moment. Ah, yes! ...birth of those not-so-improved brain farts.

andym
distinguished member(4539)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
01/31/2019 06:52PM
All federal contracts need to go out for competitive bids periodically. The goal is to get the benefits of competition. After all, competition is one of the tenets of capitalism.

There are sole source justifications but they aren’t easy to get approved and would be almost impossible for something such as an e-commerce site.

Unfortunately, “it ain’t broke so don’t fix it” isn’t a justification.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/31/2019 06:52PM
They may not cancel the permits that were made (my perception on what had been hinted about in email received today) but I think something will have to be done for outfitters/cooperators. From what I could figure out, it was primarily the public who had even a 1% chance of doing a permit and "we/commercial/cooperators" had even less. The website was way less functional on the commercial side. I'd like to see what permits were reserved of the 1300 and when & where they were for. Were most for day use motor, or ???

On the commercial side, "we" all were trying to get permits for real customers/people who wanted to go to the BWCA.
01/31/2019 07:16PM
Crossing my fingers that they get this right for everyone. I usually don't book until the last minute and take whatever's there but I hope that once it's fixed, it's fixed. I'm sure the FS folks due to. I'll bet they just want to escape at this point like the folks in those SW or Buffalo Wildwings commercials.... (I like they guy who pushes the mattress out the window and flops on it..)
02/01/2019 04:38PM
This was tweeted an hour ago on the Superior National Forest Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/SuperiorNF/status/1091448511055519745


They will be issuing refunds to all who got permits and re-doing it all. There is no date yet.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/01/2019 05:03PM
Dear Cooperators,

New info from FS email _

I’m sending you the enclosed (see below) press release the Forest Service will be sending out shortly. I know the situation with the reservation system has been extremely frustrating to all of us. We will do our absolute best to have the system ready for reservations as soon as possible.

Sincerely,

Constance Cummins
Forest Supervisor
Superior National Forest

BOUNDARY WATERS PRESS RELEASE
“The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, located on the Superior National Forest in Minnesota, opened a quota permit sale to the public on Wednesday, January 30 on Recreation.gov. As a result of unforeseen technical issues, unrelated to volume of users, many people were unable to access the reservation process, resulting in only a small number of people receiving access to apply for a permit. For this reason, the USDA Forest Service halted the process for applying for BWCAW permits, and is withdrawing the reservations that initially were processed. We will be providing refunds for any cancellations made.

The USDA Forest Service deeply regrets this inconvenience to everyone, and we encourage people to apply again. Our goal is to provide a fair and open opportunity for visitors to experience this special location. We are urgently working with Recreation.gov to fix the technical issue. Under the new system, customers can simultaneously apply for and secure a reservation for a permit, so that our visitors have ample time to plan their quality experience in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness.

We will soon name a new date for reservations requests in the BWCAW permit system. We will provide advanced notice of this date to ensure customers have ample time to make their reservations. Full details on the reservation process are located at https://www.recreation.gov/permits/233396.”


airmorse
distinguished member(2599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/01/2019 05:03PM
flynn: "This was tweeted an hour ago on the Superior National Forest Twitter account:


https://twitter.com/SuperiorNF/status/1091448511055519745



They will be issuing refunds to all who got permits and re-doing it all. There is no date yet."


Thanks for posting. Not everyone has a twitter account.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/01/2019 05:38PM
I try to list the entire document/email when I can.

But I understand that when someone has the info from their Twitter or whatever account, they are trying to help with what they have.

I'm glad we all help with they way we can share.
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/01/2019 05:55PM
I wonder how they'll provide advance notice - by direct emails or will it be necessary to keep checking the site . . . ?
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/01/2019 06:16PM
Not sure, but as soon as I get something (and since they say at least 48 hours notice), I'll have it here for you.
tumblehome
distinguished member(1474)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/01/2019 07:47PM
ellahallely:



Rumor has it one of the extreme groups took down the system on purpose. Just saying what I was told. I was told this would happen weeks ago and posted about it. "


That is inappropriate to write that. Sort of like if I wrote that the earth is not a globe but flat like a pancake but not provide anything to substantiate it.
ellahallely
distinguished member (495)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/03/2019 08:11AM
Harv: "When FS (group) came to Ely this past year to discuss the new permit system...what was the ladies name who is head of the office in Duluth? I believe she stood up and said something like "it's my call, I'm in charge, if anything goes wrong I'll take the heat". Well...has she said a word yet about yet?


I apologize, I don't remember her name. I may have to go back to old Ely Echo article to find it.


As for banning motors all together...that wasn't a well thought out response. Nice reply back Ellahall.


TGO- do you remember the name?
"


Harv I think the name you are looking for is Connie Cummins. Try and call her today. Do you think she cares enough to be at work and answer her phone.

So they say the systems wasn't brought down by high volume. I wonder if we will ever get a real answer?

It came as a surprise that the USFS chose to skip a formal public comment process with these large changes, as the public comment process is generally standard procedure.

Link to story in CWCS with some facts from a couple of months back.


I would like to add I feel the Forest Service has some good people in the field, not all and very few in administration.

Link to story Rep. Pete Stauber says his constituents drove for miles in -40 degree weather Wednesday to access high speed internet to try to make and accept reservations, Amelia Santaniello reports (). WCCO 4 News
Harv
distinguished member (179)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/03/2019 08:25AM
ellahallely: "Harv: "When FS (group) came to Ely this past year to discuss the new permit system...what was the ladies name who is head of the office in Duluth? I believe she stood up and said something like "it's my call, I'm in charge, if anything goes wrong I'll take the heat". Well...has she said a word yet about yet?



I apologize, I don't remember her name. I may have to go back to old Ely Echo article to find it.



As for banning motors all together...that wasn't a well thought out response. Nice reply back Ellahall.



TGO- do you remember the name?
"



Harv I think the name you are looking for is Ann Schwaller. She is the Natural Resources Program Manager at the Superior Forest Supervisor’s Office in Duluth.


So they say the systems wasn't brought down by high volume. I wonder if we will ever get a real answer?


It came as a surprise that the USFS chose to skip a formal public comment process with these large changes, as the public comment process is generally standard procedure.

Link to story in CWCS with some facts from a couple of months back. "


Thanks Ellahall! I was thinking it was someone else; but the only name I've seen is Ann's.
Will we get a real answer? Will we ever know how many permits were really reserved and from what entry points?

I'm surprised how long this is taking for the powers at be to get this problem fixed and the system up and running.
nooneuno
distinguished member(688)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/03/2019 03:22PM
Spokesman for the contractor Booz Allen, Notmif Ault stated " We vastly underestimated the number of people who would want to vacation in a place where one has to go to the bathroom in a pit in the ground, have no access to safe treated water, and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, Minnesota must be a truly horrible place, worse even than here in New Dehli."
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/03/2019 03:37PM
Same words used earlier by his cohort Donna Blaymee...
gravelroad
senior member (86)senior membersenior member
 
02/03/2019 05:52PM
nooneuno: "Spokesman for the contractor Booz Allen, Notmif Ault stated " We vastly underestimated the number of people who would want to vacation in a place where one has to go to the bathroom in a pit in the ground, have no access to safe treated water, and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, Minnesota must be a truly horrible place, worse even than here in New Dehli.""

THANK YOU!!! Almost made all this worthwhile, just to see this. Almost.
cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/03/2019 06:35PM
I still haven't seen anything saying my permit was cancelled. I've got rental reserved, bunk house, and more for the date and place I have confirmation of my permit from recreation.gov
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/03/2019 09:50PM
cyclones30: "I still haven't seen anything saying my permit was cancelled. I've got rental reserved, bunk house, and more for the date and place I have confirmation of my permit from recreation.gov "
Well, I do, too, and deposits paid, but I'm certain that every BWCAW outfitter/cooperator is well aware of the situation and is going to work with you on any necessary changes. Sort of like when the airlines waive change fees in the event of a blizzard covering half of the country.

Here's hoping you get the same permit in the re-do.
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/04/2019 06:04AM
nooneuno: "Spokesman for the contractor Booz Allen, Notmif Ault stated " We vastly underestimated the number of people who would want to vacation in a place where one has to go to the bathroom in a pit in the ground, have no access to safe treated water, and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, Minnesota must be a truly horrible place, worse even than here in New Dehli.""


Sounds a little odd to me. No need to estimate, the information is readily available - the FS has it, it's easy to find (we all know it). I'd be surprised if it wasn't given to them, and if it wasn't, they'd have to be totally clueless, to say nothing of incompetent, not to get it. Would you bid on a job without knowing what was required?
cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 07:27AM
schweady: "cyclones30: "I still haven't seen anything saying my permit was cancelled. I've got rental reserved, bunk house, and more for the date and place I have confirmation of my permit from recreation.gov "
Well, I do, too, and deposits paid, but I'm certain that every BWCAW outfitter/cooperator is well aware of the situation and is going to work with you on any necessary changes. Sort of like when the airlines waive change fees in the event of a blizzard covering half of the country.


Here's hoping you get the same permit in the re-do.
"


Right, but you got a cancellation email correct? I still haven't heard anything, almost a week later. And yes, outfitters may be flexible if changes need to be made but are rental car, airlines, and employers going to care if you need to change dates on all your plans?
ellahallely
distinguished member (495)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 07:55AM
Check your spam.
gravelroad
senior member (86)senior membersenior member
 
02/04/2019 08:56AM
boonie: "nooneuno: "Spokesman for the contractor Booz Allen, Notmif Ault stated " We vastly underestimated the number of people who would want to vacation in a place where one has to go to the bathroom in a pit in the ground, have no access to safe treated water, and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, Minnesota must be a truly horrible place, worse even than here in New Dehli.""



Sounds a little odd to me. No need to estimate, the information is readily available - the FS has it, it's easy to find (we all know it). I'd be surprised if it wasn't given to them, and if it wasn't, they'd have to be totally clueless, to say nothing of incompetent, not to get it. Would you bid on a job without knowing what was required?"


Do yourself a favor. Read that post again, slowly. Examine closely the name of the spokesman.

You're welcome. ;-)
heavylunch
senior member (64)senior membersenior member
 
02/04/2019 09:48AM
Yes, my regular reservation confirmation emails did NOT go into my junk/spam folder but the cancel reservation email DID go into my spam/junk folder. Ugh.... I bet there will be a number of people who don't see it. I wonder if they will be sending out paper notifications via us mail too.
cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 01:16PM
heavylunch: "Yes, my regular reservation confirmation emails did NOT go into my junk/spam folder but the cancel reservation email DID go into my spam/junk folder. Ugh.... I bet there will be a number of people who don't see it. I wonder if they will be sending out paper notifications via us mail too."

I'd already checked there, nothing. I'm guessing I'm not alone. So that means there are some out there that still have no idea. Even so, if it goes to Spam like yours they may never see it.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 03:27PM
So far no new news about when they think the permit site will be fixed and live.

I did get a call from Representative Pete Stauber's office today. They are calling/contacting outfitters (& maybe others) about the site crash debacle and how it impacts us and our customers.

The caller mentioned something about a meeting with the Forest Service but since they just got notified this morning, I think the meeting is between government officials & the FS, because we did not get any notice. (& I checked my spam and "auto" trash folder).

This is one case where no news is definitely not good news.

Jamie B.
Guest Paddler
 
02/04/2019 03:46PM
Hopefully it gets going this week!
02/04/2019 03:55PM
I received a notice that there was a problem with my alternate leaders e-mail address on both of my in Limbo permits. I had misspelled his name. I corrected it and have not heard from wreck. gov about the permits being cancelled since. Nothing in junk folder either besides the ussual stamina and enlargement remedies from the Canadian Pharmacy.
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/04/2019 04:21PM
Zulu: "wreck. gov"
Even with all of the other clever spam references, this one made me laugh the loudest.
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/04/2019 04:24PM
VoyageurNorth: "I did get a call from Representative Pete Stauber's office today..."
Not sure that Stauber's involvement is going to bring any improvement. Maybe a couple of 14-year olds and an old copy of HTML for Dummies? :-(
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 04:54PM
schweady: "VoyageurNorth: "I did get a call from Representative Pete Stauber's office today..."
Not sure that Stauber's involvement is going to bring any improvement. Maybe a couple of 14-year olds and an old copy of HTML for Dummies? :-(
"


Funny, old html for Dummies! I know that more than just Stauber is going to be at the "talk", I'm sure other elected officials may be going.

Waiting to see what that meeting brings.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 06:41PM
New email received this evening:

Good evening all – Today a handful of cooperators met at the Kawishiwi Ranger District to talk with several of us from the Superior, several from the New Email this evening:

Washington Office of the Forest Service that supervise the contract for the Recreation.gov permit system, and some of the developers from the Contractor. Additionally we had staffers from Rep Stauber’s office and Senator Klobuchar’s office. Forest reps and cooperators and staffers were in the room, the others were on a Zoom video conference.

We had a good meeting and wrote down all the issues many of you experienced when you were trying to reserve permits. We talked about a process going forward and communication on that process. The small group will meet again to experience how the other permits (overnight Motor and overnight Paddle) are reserved. Following that meeting, we will have more information about what fixes you should expect to the system, and (roughly) when they will be completed.

The contractor also described what went wrong on Wednesday and how they will fix it, and test it to make sure it doesn’t happen again. The contractor and the FS are confident that we will not Go Live again before February 19. This will allow them to put the system through all levels of load testing. So please pass along that Recreation.gov will not Go Live until sometime after 2/19. We will keep you posted.

We will offer training on the Recreation.gov site to cooperators before we go live.

The group today helping us to understand the issues all of you have been experiencing included Kathleen Floberg from Camp Widjiwagan, Betsy and Willy Vosburgh of Custom Cabins, Jason Jabokrsky of Ely Outfitting Company and Boundary Waters Guide Service, Dave Sabesta from Williams and Hall, Bob LaTourell, Ginny Nelson of Spirit of the Wilderness, Ida Rukavina from Klobuchar’s office, and John Eloranta from Pete Stauber’s office. From the Superior, I was there, Connie Cummins our Forest Supervisor, and Dawn Labolt our Staff Officer for Recreation, Wilderness, Minerals, and Lands.

I apologize that I could not include you all. I did my best to gather a group of diverse cooperators that could represent the rest of you.

We will keep you posted as soon as we have more to share. Gus
WIMike
distinguished member (105)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 06:53PM
Would be nice to have a permit prior to Canoecopia.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 07:02PM
WIMike: "Would be nice to have a permit prior to Canoecopia. "

I hear you! And feel your pain too! :-)
Jamie B.
Guest Paddler
 
02/04/2019 07:15PM
That's a really long ways out! Surprised it would take tell the end of the month.
scat
distinguished member(733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 08:08PM
I still want to know more about the extremist groups that took down the system. I mean, is there an anti extremist group formed yet to fight the extremists causing all this turmoil. Is there a way to be more extreme than the extremists. Or do you fight the extremists by being totally unextreme, there has to be a word for it, anti pacafistic extremism maybe. If I guy wants to sit in tree so it won’t get cut down, hike him up some brownies with ex lax in it. I have to think a guy sitting in a tree for more than three days will get curious and a tad hungry perhaps, take a bite and after he runs out of leaves of a suitable size within reach to keep himself comfortable may just scoot the perch with no trouble at all. Never underestimate the power of a chapped ass. Hacking into a computer is for sissies. Whining and pining and opining on a public forum. Get real. Just sayin. Keep up the good fight. I would like to donate a lot of money to the cause, but I don’t have any so that eliminates any conflict of interest on my part. Geez, Thats a relief. I don’t have to pick a side cuz neither one would want me anyway. Stupid extremists. They are just no damn fun at all.
cyclones30
distinguished member(1514)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/04/2019 10:16PM
I finally got my cancellation email, yes it did end up in my spam folder. May have never seen it if I wasn't looking for it as that gets cleared every week automatically.

I'm gonna call the number in the email to ask questions since that's what they said it's there for.
Pinetree
distinguished member(13259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/04/2019 10:36PM
Is it the same private contractor as in the pass or do we go by low bid also.

To me it looks like it is trying to be corrected and the Forest Service is working with various groups to get it right.
Pinetree
distinguished member(13259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/04/2019 10:39PM
nctry: "Zulu: "Permit day seemed to go good the last few years. I wonder if the elimination of the Lottery and the addition of the Motorized Permits on Permit day had anything to do with the malfunction. A remedy may be to have a separate permit day for Motorized Permits or just forbid motors in the BWCA entirely.



Also I wonder if those who are unaware their permit could be void and have purchased plane tickets, bought equipment like a 25hp outboard, scheduled vacations, booked dog kennel services have any legal recourse if their permit becomes void. A lawyer could bring up mental duress, financial hardship and time lost for a client whose permit was voided. The Outfitters could really have a case for the stress they are enduring."






This all could have been avoided if they’d have contracted with Adam. Haha"


Its all that modern Technology speeding up things and I still don't have a IPad. Every time it seems like there is a update on a computer system something goes wrong.
Harv
distinguished member (179)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 07:41AM
ellahallely: "Check your spam."

Ellahallely-

Ann wasn't the name I was trying to remember; it is Connie Cummins. She raised her hand in a meeting this past year and (this is NOT a direct quote; but on these lines) said she's in charge and if anything happens with the permit system she will take the heat. I haven't read nor heard one word from her.

Hopefully everything is fixed and it will run smoothly this next round.
ellahallely
distinguished member (495)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 08:28AM
Thanks Harv I edited the post.
Just wondering
Guest Paddler
 
02/05/2019 10:11AM
Just curious, what is the if you are in without a permit
mschi772
distinguished member (244)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 10:27AM
Just wondering : "Just curious, what is the if you are in without a permit "

I have read that the maximum penalty is for camping without a permit is $5000 dollars and/or six months in jail. I have also read that some have only been fine a couple hundred dollars, so it must be discretionary at some level.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 05:13PM
Remember everyone, it was said that the site will not go live until "at least" February 19th". Does not mean they will be live by then, could be a day or days or even a week after that day.

nooneuno
distinguished member(688)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 07:00PM
VoyageurNorth: "Remember everyone, it was said that the site will not go live until "at least" February 19th". Does not mean they will be live by then, could be a day or days or even a week after that day.


"


I caught that one as well, they could just as well have said the site won't go live till at least Friday and have it not up before the end of May, the key word here is "before" it would have meant about as much which is jack... (I apologize to Jack)
Pinetree
distinguished member(13259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/05/2019 07:30PM
There will be at least a 48 hour notice.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/05/2019 09:55PM
Pinetree: "There will be at least a 48 hour notice."

And I hope that for those 48 hours plus, we get to practice with the permit site during those hours!
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/06/2019 08:55AM
VoyageurNorth: "Pinetree: "There will be at least a 48 hour notice."


And I hope that for those 48 hours plus, we get to practice with the permit site during those hours!"

Agree. The old system would let you scroll around in the pages, set up some of your group's profile etc, get a feel for the site, see how the calendar grid looks... pretty much everything except actually reserve a permit. That would be nice.

The new system just sets up a roadblock, forcing a wait for the "Great Reveal."
02/06/2019 09:20AM
I needed to talk to a wreck.gov representative about a problem I was having reserving a campsite in a National Park recently. The new website was not allowing me to book over five days. I could not scroll to the right. The rep. booked it over the phone for me. She said the new site has some problems when people use a mobile device versus a laptop or one of those old style CPU tower and keyboard computers.

The rec.gov rep. was very nice and helpful so I don’t want to blame them for any issues with their system.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/06/2019 02:22PM
Zulu: "I needed to talk to a wreck.gov representative about a problem I was having reserving a campsite in a National Park recently. The new website was not allowing me to book over five days. I could not scroll to the right. The rep. booked it over the phone for me. She said the new site has some problems when people use a mobile device versus a laptop or one of those old style CPU tower and keyboard computers.


The rec.gov rep. was very nice and helpful so I don’t want to blame them for any issues with their system."


Agree, the reps on the phone can only do so much and they have to work with the same site. They get the phone calls, not the techie guys who made the site.
Pinetree
distinguished member(13259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/06/2019 08:01PM
thistlekicker
distinguished member (295)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/07/2019 11:44AM
scat: "I still want to know more about the extremist groups that took down the system. I mean, is there an anti extremist group formed yet to fight the extremists causing all this turmoil. Is there a way to be more extreme than the extremists. Or do you fight the extremists by being totally unextreme, there has to be a word for it, anti pacafistic extremism maybe. If I guy wants to sit in tree so it won’t get cut down, hike him up some brownies with ex lax in it. I have to think a guy sitting in a tree for more than three days will get curious and a tad hungry perhaps, take a bite and after he runs out of leaves of a suitable size within reach to keep himself comfortable may just scoot the perch with no trouble at all. Never underestimate the power of a chapped ass. Hacking into a computer is for sissies. Whining and pining and opining on a public forum. Get real. Just sayin. Keep up the good fight. I would like to donate a lot of money to the cause, but I don’t have any so that eliminates any conflict of interest on my part. Geez, Thats a relief. I don’t have to pick a side cuz neither one would want me anyway. Stupid extremists. They are just no damn fun at all."

This is art.
MooseTrack
distinguished member(576)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/07/2019 12:26PM
Here is the latest update as of today 2/7/19

All – The small group of Kawishiwi District Cooperators met again yesterday with Superior National Forest Service leadership, the Contracting representatives, and some contractors from Booz Allen Hamilton. We previewed the process to reserve an overnight motor and an overnight paddle permit. We also reviewed how to reserve permits for non-profits. The group of Cooperators brought up several issues they saw in the functionality, or ease of using the new system, and reiterated concern about several issues that had been brought up on Monday.

What happens next is that the Contracting representatives will share the feedback from the meeting with the software developers and develop a plan. The forest will notify you of the timeline for 1) testing and training for cooperators in their accounts on Recreation.gov, and 2) when we will Go Live again. As soon as we have information to share with you, we will. We will also share information with the public to ease their reliance on you for information about when we will Go Live again.

I appreciate your patience in this time of uncertainty,

Gus



Gus Smith
District Ranger
Forest Service
Superior National Forest, Kawishiwi Ranger District
p: 218-365-7603
c: 218-235-1605
f: 218-365-7563
douglasfsmith@usda.gov

1393 Highway 169
Ely, MN 55731
www.fs.fed.us


Caring for the land and serving people

02/07/2019 01:28PM
Thanks for the update. I’m sure it will be fine now that the folks from Booz Allen Hamilton are involved. Things go better with Booz.
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/07/2019 02:27PM
Zulu: "...Things go better with Booz."
...and Hamilton was a smash hit, so what could go wrong?
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/07/2019 03:14PM
Yes, but Allen could throw a wrench in the works . . .
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/07/2019 04:18PM
Zulu, Schweady & Boonie, all good comments with the names! :-) Made me laugh

One thing I just noticed is that the recent email (like MooseTrack posted) ended up in my Spam folder! None of the others went there! Luckily MT posted it so I knew to go search.
nooneuno
distinguished member(688)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/07/2019 08:19PM
VoyageurNorth: "Zulu, Schweady & Boonie, all good comments with the names! :-) Made me laugh

One thing I just noticed is that the recent email (like MooseTrack posted) ended up in my Spam folder! None of the others went there! Luckily MT posted it so I knew to go search. "


So you are saying you are against Spam, what kind of commie pinko are you anyway?
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 04:10PM
Got this message for Gus at FS yesterday. Looks like we are going to visit with the FS and talk more about the steps. Not sure if any actual site pages will be viewable but maybe we can see just what info is actually going to be needed for reservations and what will not.:-) If any info gathered there that is worth sharing, will be back here tomorrow afternoon.

*******************************************
Good morning all – we hope we can gather as many of you as possible on Tuesday, February 12th at 1000 to discuss the new Go Live on 2/27. We will talk about the steps I sent out yesterday to get us to the new Go Live and other questions or concerns you have.

Sorry for the late notice. I hope you can make it.

Gus
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/11/2019 05:01PM
Lynn: I would love to see screen shots of any pages along the way during the process. As you know, the site is currently a dead end at the 'Registration is Closed' page.

Semi-related: I got an email from recreation.gov around 2:30 this afternoon announcing their new monthly newsletter – The Story Board – "as a way of sharing our recommendations and your stories." Sort of a yawner, but it did have this tidbit about resetting passwords at the bottom, which could be critical. It's the first time I had seen guidelines/requirements for a strong, acceptable password:

"If you're planning to visit the new site for the first time, there's a few things you should know. If you haven't logged in to your Recreation.gov account since before October 1, 2018, you'll need to reset your password. Due to federal security standards, account updates as well as new accounts will need to use a 'complex' password. Complex and secure passwords should have more than 12 characters with upper and lower case letters, numbers, and symbols."
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 05:22PM
schweady, we were told of the "new password" thing a while ago, for all the cooperators and for customers.

What is going to be very challenging is that outfitters/cooperators will no longer be able to look up their own customers by their name, only by their email address. This means that customers are going to have to have a certain email address that they will always be using for permits otherwise it will cause all sorts of problems.
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/11/2019 06:53PM
schweady: Sort of a yawner, but it did have this tidbit about resetting passwords at the bottom, which could be critical. It's the first time I had seen guidelines/requirements for a strong, acceptable password:


"If you're planning to visit the new site for the first time, there's a few things you should know. If you haven't logged in to your Recreation.gov account since before October 1, 2018, you'll need to reset your password. Due to federal security standards, account updates as well as new accounts will need to use a 'complex' password. Complex and secure passwords should have more than 12 characters with upper and lower case letters, numbers, and symbols."
"



My new password doesn't meet all of those parameters, but I can still sign in with it. I hope I don't have to change it again; it does say "should", not "must".


VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 07:34PM
Boonie, be prepared to make a change to it. And since it is probably likely you will have to, do you want to wait on the "Live" day to do that change and then reserve your permit? Don't take chances, it may bite you in the buttocks!
schweady
distinguished member(6845)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/11/2019 08:26PM
I just changed mine. Only a couple of modifications. No biggie. Even so, I still get a message that it needs to be changed. Weirdest thing is that the message appears even before I log in. How do they know who is sitting at the computer at the moment and what makes the password that they are about to enter unacceptable? Just plain bad web design...
yogi59weedr
distinguished member(2137)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 09:45PM
Lynn...
Ask if we can view everything before going live...
I'm not the best when it comes to this computer stuff...
I mean really ,what would it hurt...I think I might just rely on ma bell..
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 10:05PM
yogi59weedr: "Lynn...
Ask if we can view everything before going live...
I'm not the best when it comes to this computer stuff...
I mean really ,what would it hurt...I think I might just rely on ma bell.."


I will see if they can give me an answer to that at one of the meetings (I'm sure there is going to be at least one more).
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/11/2019 10:56PM
VoyageurNorth: "Boonie, be prepared to make a change to it. And since it is probably likely you will have to, do you want to wait on the "Live" day to do that change and then reserve your permit? Don't take chances, it may bite you in the buttocks!"


Lynn, I already did change it once a month or two ago when it first told me I had to - that's what I meant by my "new" password. Are you saying that anyone who already changed will have to change it again?
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/11/2019 11:00PM
schweady: "I just changed mine. Only a couple of modifications. No biggie. Even so, I still get a message that it needs to be changed. Weirdest thing is that the message appears even before I log in. How do they know who is sitting at the computer at the moment and what makes the password that they are about to enter unacceptable? Just plain bad web design...
"



And why do I not get that message . . . ? and can just log in, see my profile, past reservations, etc.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2019 11:51PM
Boonie, and you just have one problem with the new site (so far), your password.

Count yourself lucky, I'm not sure what we'll have to do, nor how to do it, yet.

If anyone mentions anything about passwords and changing, I'll let you know. This next meeting tomorrow is supposed to be about the outfitter side of the site. But if I can find out tomorrow or another meeting, I'll let you know.

Does the new one you made before have all the "required" things in it? There are some sites not related to rec.gov at all that require all the things that the permit site is requesting. I've had to change a number of mine.
boonie
distinguished member(10369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/12/2019 07:37AM
Thanks,

Actually the only problem I've had so far is being unable to get a permit. But I'm not the only one. I do feel bad for all the cooperators - and have since you originally posted about everything you'd have to do to comply. Then the whole thing was a debacle on Jan. 30th.

I knew the change was coming and that I'd need a new password, so I went on the site early (but after Oct. 1) to specifically get that out of the way before Jan. 30th. At that time, I got the message that I'd have to change it, but no information about any password requirements, so I changed it and it was accepted and still works.

I just don't want to go to log in Feb. 27th (or whenever "go live" actually happens) and find out I have to change my password again. If I have to, then it's likely a lot of people would have to, and that would be bad. I really don't like changing passwords and don't want to change it again if I don't have to. BUT, no, I don't want to wait on "Live" day to do it if I have to.

At this point, my confidence in them is low. The wording in the notice Schweady posted is somewhat ambiguous. It says you'll need to reset your password, which I did between Oct. 1 and Jan. 30. It says you'll "need" to use a complex password. Then it says a complex password "should" have more than 12 characters with upper and lower case letters, numbers, and symbols.

The new one I created earlier doesn't have all those things. At the time I created it, it did not require me to do anything I didn't do. The notice just says "should" have, not "must" have, which isn't the same thing. But it does say "need" to use a complex password, which is a "vague" wording somewhere between "should" and "must". The password does still currently allow me to log in and view my account.

Don't go out of your way to find out - you have more than enough to worry about as it is - but if anything is said about it, please let us know.

Pinetree
distinguished member(13259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/12/2019 12:55PM
reset password-no problem
 
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