BWCA Northwind 17 or 18??? Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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printing
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02/05/2019 04:42PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Not sure what one to purchase. Have paddled the 17 before and loved it but have not tried the 18.

Will mostly be used for trips in the BWCAW and Quetico. And potentially Wabakimi or Woodland Caribou if we make it over there. We are both 5'10'' and together weigh about 340 lbs with the dog (minus our gear).
 
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02/05/2019 04:54PM  
Unless you're bringing the kitchen sink, the 17. If you pack really heavy, maybe the 18, but paddle it first.
 
TipsyPaddler
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02/05/2019 05:08PM  
Agree. I have paddled the NW17 with a total load of about 500 pounds (two 200# adult males and two 40# portage packs) and it handled very well. So unless your typical gear load is running well north of 100# (could on longer trips?) I think the NW18 might be more canoe than you need.
 
MidwestFirecraft
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02/05/2019 05:52PM  
If you live near the twin cities you can try mine in the spring. I went right from a 16 foot prospector to the Northwind 18. At 3 pounds more than the 17 you would only lose on tight rivers. It's Really nice when you take the third seat out and can lay your packs flat so nothing sticks above the gunwales. I hated being so crowded in the prospector. Never paddled the 17 but I don't regret buying the 18.
 
printing
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02/05/2019 07:09PM  
MidwestFirecraft: "If you live near the twin cities you can try mine in the spring. I went right from a 16 foot prospector to the Northwind 18. At 3 pounds more than the 17 you would only lose on tight rivers. It's Really nice when you take the third seat out and can lay your packs flat so nothing sticks above the gunwales. I hated being so crowded in the prospector. Never paddled the 17 but I don't regret buying the 18. "


Good to hear you enjoy the 18! Have you found any difficulty with light weight loads, specifically dealing with waves and wind?
 
printing
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02/05/2019 07:12PM  
sns: "Unless you're bringing the kitchen sink, the 17. If you pack really heavy, maybe the 18, but paddle it first."


We do tend to pack pretty light weight, most of our gear would fall into the light/ultralight backpacking gear. (This may finally be some the summer I bring a folding camp stool or chair.) We just bring two packs each carrying all of our own stuff, and we share the load of the tent and food split between us.
 
printing
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02/05/2019 07:17PM  
TipsyPaddler: "Agree. I have paddled the NW17 with a total load of about 500 pounds (two 200# adult males and two 40# portage packs) and it handled very well. So unless your typical gear load is running well north of 100# (could on longer trips?) I think the NW18 might be more canoe than you need."


It is sounding like the 17 is right in the sweet spot for what we want to do with it.
 
schweady
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02/05/2019 07:33PM  
When considering the choice between the Souris River Quetico 17 and the Northwind 17, nearly everyone seems to say that they will perform similarly when loaded but that the Northwind 17 will feel a bit tippier empty. One very detailed explanation went on to say "...It [The NW17] will only rock a few degrees before the secondary stability takes hold, but that might be enough to un-nerve you."

Would everyone here concur? I love fishing out of the SRQ17, but a number of outfitters are going to the NW line and I'd love to give one a try.

And: secondary stability? Anyone care to elaborate?
 
MidwestFirecraft
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02/05/2019 07:39PM  
Good to hear you enjoy the 18! Have you found any difficulty with light weight loads, specifically dealing with waves and wind?"

To be fair, I have always had it loaded. If your not packing much gear the 17 would make more sense.
 
02/06/2019 07:48AM  
schweady: "When considering the choice between the Souris River Quetico 17 and the Northwind 17, nearly everyone seems to say that they will perform similarly when loaded but that the Northwind 17 will feel a bit tippier empty. One very detailed explanation went on to say "...It [The NW17] will only rock a few degrees before the secondary stability takes hold, but that might be enough to un-nerve you."


Would everyone here concur? I love fishing out of the SRQ17, but a number of outfitters are going to the NW line and I'd love to give one a try.


And: secondary stability? Anyone care to elaborate?
"

I paddled our NW 17 unloaded with my wife. She was new to canoeing and a bit nervous. She felt fine with the stability even with the seats raised 2 inches. The space for the bow paddler is very generous compared to many other canoes.
 
muddyfeet
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02/06/2019 07:54AM  
Having rented a 17 many times, I bought an 18 last year. Installed a removable third seat/ double kid seat in the middle. It is a fine tandem boat as well; I can’t tell a difference between it and the 17. You’ll be happy with either. For a dedicated tandem boat the 17 will be fine, but if you will ever want a little more versatillity in group sizes, the 18 can fill that space well. I’m used to skinny solo canoes, so I think these boats are all very stable trucks.
 
cyclones30
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02/06/2019 08:10AM  
schweady: "When considering the choice between the Souris River Quetico 17 and the Northwind 17, nearly everyone seems to say that they will perform similarly when loaded but that the Northwind 17 will feel a bit tippier empty. One very detailed explanation went on to say "...It [The NW17] will only rock a few degrees before the secondary stability takes hold, but that might be enough to un-nerve you."


Would everyone here concur? I love fishing out of the SRQ17, but a number of outfitters are going to the NW line and I'd love to give one a try.


And: secondary stability? Anyone care to elaborate?
"


I've been in various Kevlar tandem and 3 person canoes up there, the NW17 my wife and I rented last year was the least stable feeling when empty in a wind. We day tripped a lot where our total weight was 300 lbs in the canoe, which if you look at their site is under recommended load. 95% of the time it was fine but a few times while just drifting sideways with the wind, a gust came up and made us very nervous of our stability. Once was just a quick trip away from camp to refill water, we got back and both had the "dang that was sketchy" look for each other.

Would I paddle one again? Sure, esp if I'm going with someone that weighs more or I'd add water or rocks for weight if it was breezy. Am I renting one this year? No, going to try 2 others
 
02/06/2019 09:25AM  
I faced the same choice and ended up with the 18. My primary paddle partner is my daughter, and the two of us together weigh 320 so the 17 in some ways seemed a more natural choice; but I wanted flexibility for long trips, and the possibility of having a third paddler. We rented both the 17 and the 18 before buying. Unloaded, with two paddlers, the 17 is unquestionably superior. But even with 100# of gear the two become quite similar imo, and at that point the 18 is just getting started. I had mine fitted with a third seat because why not?

Probably *because* I own an 18, I've really made use of its capabilities. My longest trip last year was with two other adult men and gear for ten days. The 18 handled that beautifully, and we were never concerned about approaching the canoe's limits. But in the same summer, in the same canoe, I took a weeklong trip with just my daughter and a week of gear (not quite 100# at the start), and the canoe handled that elegantly too.

The only time I really wished I had a 17 instead of my 18 was on a false portage trail where we just bushwhacked through when we realized it was the wrong trail. This is *not* a bushwhacking canoe, and in those conditions it was awful. On tight actual portages it's a little more trouble than a 17, but as long as you're alert it's fine.

If you know you're never going to heavily load it, and/or try to take along another person, the 17 is really the better choice. But the 18 is a fine choice in those circumstances, and it brings all sorts of flexibility and versatility as well.
 
THEGrandRapids
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02/06/2019 10:14AM  
Get both!
 
justpaddlin
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02/06/2019 12:23PM  
So what did you love about the 17? I had the Bell equivalent, the Northwind 17 (really 17.5). Very stable and friendly, huge capacity, great handling, deep/dry and safe feeling, and can be steered and turned easily by bow or stern paddler alone. But in my view the boat wanted at least 500 pounds or it felt too big...like you can feel the skin friction taking more muscle to overcome. I now have a Polaris and used to have a Northstar (the Bell equivalent) and these boats have an effortless feel at all times and are lightly loaded at 400-450. Oddly enough when I paddled the 18.5 foot Bell Northwoods back to back against the 17.5 Northwind years ago I definitely preferred the bigger boat; it felt faster and more free on the water than the smaller boat which felt like a "family boat" to me (hugely stable but a bit sluggish). Even the 18.5 spins on a dime and has great handling. So, if either of you kneels I'd say get a Polaris (or NW16) but if your choice is between the 2 big boats I suggest that you try a NW18.
 
printing
member (49)member
  
02/06/2019 12:49PM  
justpaddlin: "So what did you love about the 17? I had the Bell equivalent, the Northwind 17 (really 17.5). Very stable and friendly, huge capacity, great handling, deep/dry and safe feeling, and can be steered and turned easily by bow or stern paddler alone. But in my view the boat wanted at least 500 pounds or it felt too big...like you can feel the skin friction taking more muscle to overcome. I now have a Polaris and used to have a Northstar (the Bell equivalent) and these boats have an effortless feel at all times and are lightly loaded at 400-450. Oddly enough when I paddled the 18.5 foot Bell Northwoods back to back against the 17.5 Northwind years ago I definitely preferred the bigger boat; it felt faster and more free on the water than the smaller boat which felt like a "family boat" to me (hugely stable but a bit sluggish). Even the 18.5 spins on a dime and has great handling. So, if either of you kneels I'd say get a Polaris (or NW16) but if your choice is between the 2 big boats I suggest that you try a NW18."


We loved how responsive the NW17 was and how smooth it felt gliding across the lakes. We took it out unloaded and it felt great also, no wind or waves when we did that though. I can imagine the NW18 which is 18'9'' being faster and still being responsive, but one of the reason we are leaning towards the NW17 is so that it would be easier for my girlfriend to portage or to take out alone if she wanted. Also it is 15 inches shorter than the NW18 and weighs about 8 lbs lighter. Which she is thinking would make it a lot easier for her. We might buy in the winter so not sure we will be able to try the 18 beforehand. We are still on the fence.

Would love to add the Polaris later down the line, such a beautiful boat with the ability to be a comfortable solo.
 
02/06/2019 01:20PM  
printing: "one of the reason we are leaning towards the NW17 is so that it would be easier for my girlfriend to portage or to take out alone if she wanted. Also it is 15 inches shorter than the NW18 and weighs about 8 lbs lighter. Which she is thinking would make it a lot easier for her. We might buy in the winter so not sure we will be able to try the 18 beforehand. We are still on the fence."


The 17 is easier to portage, but they're both easy on portages, as longer canoes go. My teenage daughter has no trouble portaging our NW18, even with the slightly heavier carbon layup.

But to return to that "to take out alone if she wanted" - I can't imagine anybody casually choosing to take out either of these two boats alone unless they're a really advanced paddler, and if they're that advanced it's worth investing in multiple canoes. This is no 16' prospector - they're challenging boats to paddle solo. Is it possible? Sure, I've paddled my NW18 solo a few times. But it's work, and not the fun kind.
 
MidwestFirecraft
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02/06/2019 03:44PM  
" easier for my girlfriend to portage or to take out alone if she wanted. Also it is 15 inches shorter than the NW18 and weighs about 8 lbs lighter. Which she is thinking would make it a lot easier for her. We might buy in the winter so not sure we will be able to try the 18 beforehand. We are still on the fence."

The Northwind 18 only weighs 3 pounds more than the 17. I could be way off base but I don't think your girlfriend will be able to solo either of these boats very well.
 
muddyfeet
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02/06/2019 05:22PM  
Printing: if you are buying new this time of year: know that there are a few dealers that give a 10% discount at canoecopia. Also, Piragis in ely usually has a spring 10% discount on new boats with free shipping. That is how I got mine.
 
02/06/2019 07:35PM  
I've paddled the 17 on a trip to WCPP and loved it. The only problem was that it was not my boat :) so I had to give it back to it's original owner. It was a great tandem for a 10-day trip for two guys.
 
printing
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02/06/2019 10:23PM  
TominMpls: "The 17 is easier to portage, but they're both easy on portages, as longer canoes go. My teenage daughter has no trouble portaging our NW18, even with the slightly heavier carbon layup.


But to return to that "to take out alone if she wanted" - I can't imagine anybody casually choosing to take out either of these two boats alone unless they're a really advanced paddler, and if they're that advanced it's worth investing in multiple canoes. This is no 16' prospector - they're challenging boats to paddle solo. Is it possible? Sure, I've paddled my NW18 solo a few times. But it's work, and not the fun kind."


Haha well more so taking it out solo in the early morning at camp before we head out, we have both paddled the 17 solo a few times on a trip just to dick around waiting for the other to make breakfast.


muddyfeet: "Printing: if you are buying new this time of year: know that there are a few dealers that give a 10% discount at canoecopia. Also, Piragis in ely usually has a spring 10% discount on new boats with free shipping. That is how I got mine. "


Thanks for the heads up!


HighnDry: "I've paddled the 17 on a trip to WCPP and loved it. The only problem was that it was not my boat :) so I had to give it back to it's original owner. It was a great tandem for a 10-day trip for two guys."


Good to hear! That is a problem that you had to give it back though. :)



 
jhb8426
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02/07/2019 11:34PM  
The Northstar NW 17 hull is similar to the Bell Northwind w/o the tumblehome. The Bell is a bear to paddle solo in any kind of wind w/o a substantial load. I'm guessing the same for the NW 17.
 
DanCooke
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02/08/2019 03:58PM  
For Tandem paddling I always like the longer hulls for their glide. You can horse a big boat solo if there is no other choice, but thank goodness for choices. If there is going to be a lot of soling I would go with a dedicated solo.
 
Moonpath
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02/11/2019 12:43PM  
In 2014 I faced this exact same dilemma. The NW 17 vs 18. I chose the 17 for many of the reasons already mentioned. When I go on wilderness trips I like tandem canoes and would not want to have a 3rd person, unless maybe a small child. The 17 NW is a comparatively faster canoe than an SR 17, glides well, and importantly, is very seaworthy. I have never experienced situations where I perceived the unloaded canoe as tippy or not in my control. In fact, I have been very impressed with my NW 17’s stability both loaded and unloaded. What will happen in a 18’ 9 NW is that if you have it unloaded, it may feel more subject to wind and harder to track. This is because the hull is not pushing down in the water very much, compared to the same hull on a 17’6 inch canoe. My suggestion is to follow your instincts on this and get the 17 unless you plan on longer trips with a lot of gear and or additional people. But either way, both canoes are great hulls for moving water. Moonpath
 
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