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Listening Point - General Discussion

Filtering your water?

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VoyageurNorth

02/22/2019 05:40PM

What do you think?
Filtering water?

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deepdish71

02/22/2019 05:44PM

My father in law got giardia in the bwca on mud lake near Ella hall lake a few years ago. He was the only one that got it. All water for food or drink was filtered. He’s too stubborn and proud to admit that he drank from the lake. Don’t want to take the risk on some kombucha drinking hippie’s advice that all water is safe. Fact; animals shit in the water. I will always treat my water before consuming it.

You've got to be shitty to get better- Rollie Hortense (hockey coach in the movie Goon)

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nooneuno

02/22/2019 06:16PM

Probably no surprise here for those who know me, I completely agree with the article, get your water from mid-lake, dip deep and no need to filter, back bay sloughs and beaver dams are a whole different story. I've got a two week backpacking trip in Colombia coming up in March, I will be carrying a Kaytadyn Pocket with me but I wont use it until I hit the city water supplies.

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MN_Lindsey

02/22/2019 06:46PM

Might not need to... I hike on the SHT all the time, so lots of stream drinking... I still filter with my BeFree waterbottle filter because it literally takes two seconds.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. As a [former] Corpsman in the Navy I've treated people with Giardia... its gross, and not fun. Not gonna risk it.

“The Wilderness holds answers to more questions than we have yet learned to ask.” - Nancy Newhall

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Northwoodsman

02/22/2019 07:34PM

deepdish71 - I always heard that they crapped in the woods, or is that just bears?

There is also the recommendation that you dip water from the middle of a lake but take it from the surface. The thinking is that the UV rays kill the bacteria, the premise of a Steri-pen. Personally I'll continue to filter.

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ozarkpaddler

02/22/2019 07:34PM

VoyageurNorth: "Just got this link from a customer from California who found this on an Internet site. What do you think?
Filtering water? "

Thanks for the article! I wonder if I can sell water out of OUR spring? $$$$$
I'd always used the little iodine tablets in my backpacking days and was dubious about "Dipping and drinking" on my first trip in '84. I'm careful where I "Dip" from, but otherwise never have worried since that first trip. I have had friends bring filters, which seem to have a knack for breaking when I'm around? Then they're carrying around a useless item over the portages. I'll pass!

"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." Mark Twain

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RetiredDave

02/22/2019 07:37PM

My first trip to Quetico was in 1972 with my dad when I was 22. Bill Rom (outfitter) told us to take the water from the middle of the lake. We continued to do that for years with no thought to filtering and never had a problem. Only recently, thanks to reading opinions online, have I started filtering some of the time. The MSR Trailshot is a simple, almost weightless little guy that will protect users from giardia.

Still, I think we might be succumbing to fear a little bit. That water is pretty darned clear and clean in the middle of the lake, and I continue to drink from it when I'm thirsty.

Dave

(PS: When I get my first case of the runs I will issue an apology.)

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Pinetree

02/22/2019 08:03PM

Well,as mentioned before. Once got Giardia from Island river upstream from Bald Eagle lake.
Used Iodine pills,but they were real old. Didn't know they had a breakdown time etc.
Also once from Pine River north of Brainerd when working in the river and water got splashed on my lips.
I really think rivers are the worse,also shorelines where water is lapping in and the little creatures build up.
Also like I said before each time was a instant 10 pounds lost.

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lindylair

02/22/2019 08:42PM

To each his/her own but with the relatively inexpensive and very convenient options for personal or group gravity water filtering available these days, i just don't understand why one would not filter. There is plenty of evidence out there that not filtering CAN lead to issues that are extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. You could drive while not wearing your seat belt for a long time with no consequences but that one time you need it...

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andym

02/22/2019 09:35PM

The article is probably right but is it worth the risk to not filter and possibly wander onto an area with a higher than usual level of bugs of some sort?

However, this bit bears repeating over and over again, “If the real danger comes from eating after a trip to the cathole, then that’s the point that should be emphasized—not an unsubstantiated view of all water in the mountains as suspect. In all likelihood, it’s not the water that’s gross. It’s you.” Having been advised on staying healthy at times with a severely suppressed immune system, I can confirm that this is what was always emphasized to me. Food safety (comparable to filtering water) was only an issue when I was recovering from my bone marrow transplant and was severely compromised. But washing hands was always emphasized. For camping, we always keep hand sanitizer together with the TP and handy around the kitchen area.

For camping, I will keep filtering but do admit that we wash dishes with unfiltered water and just let them dry. We also swim in a regular basis. Maybe the filtering isn’t needed. But this is a level of caution that I can deal with.

It would be interesting to do a study of the water in the BW.

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minnmike

02/22/2019 10:29PM

I started going to the BW in 1983 and for the first 20 years never even considered bringing a filter. Not really sure why I started bringing one after 20 years of no issues, probably bought into the big commercial lie that they are needed. My wife won't go without one so theres that too. But I regularly drink straight from lake when my bottle is empty. Makes you wonder how our species made hundreds of thousands of years with out them. It's not like beavers and other animals are a new thing in the world.

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ozarkpaddler

02/23/2019 12:49AM

minnmike: " Makes you wonder how our species made hundreds of thousands of years with out them. It's not like beavers and other animals are a new thing in the world."

Heheheh, I couldn't agree more!

"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." Mark Twain

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jhb8426

02/23/2019 01:02AM

minnmike: " ...Makes you wonder how our species made hundreds of thousands of years with out them. It's not like beavers and other animals are a new thing in the world."

Over time we probably lost our immunity to many of the organisms that cause issues. It's evolution...

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mjmkjun

02/23/2019 02:57AM

Consider longevity & medicine in our modern world--which wasn't always a given throughout history. If you contact Giardia these days there's an easy fix. Wasn't always the case.
200,000 to 150,000 years of evolution until a filter to prevent dis-ease. Now you want to entertain disregarding that. Okie dokie.

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” Sir Isaac Newton

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Jaywalker

02/23/2019 08:35AM

While I personally believe that water from larger, clear lakes in BWCA or clear mountain streams is probably pretty safe to drink, I do not think the article makes a compelling case. It references 3 sources in support of it's proposition: 1 is commentary in Outdoor magazine, which is more like Cosmo than a peer reviewed journal; 1 I couldn't access because I did not want to pay $9.95, and the third was a a study involving only 41 individuals who collected water from 3 streams in one Wilderness area in Utah - not very generalizable. Two lines from the overview of that last study* caught my attention:

"The incidence of Giardia cyst acquisition in backcountry travelers was only 5.7% (95% CI 0.17-20.2%). Mild, self-limiting gastrointestinal illness occurred in 16.7% of subjects (95% CI 4.9%-34.50%), none of whom demonstrated G. lamblia infection."* First, providing statistics to the thousandth decimal place - or ten thousandth in one case - based on a sample of 41 seems irresponsible as it implies a sense of precision that is not there. Second, ignoring the decimals, those numbers don't look very good! So only 2 or 3 out of 41 got giardiasis? And about 1 in 8 got sick from something though you did not find the one pathogen you were looking for? Thanks, but I'll filter my water if camping in THAT wilderness.

I'll still dip from the center of clearer, bigger lakes up north. And I'll follow Captain Carl's sage advice;
"Oh, a sailer travels to many lands
And goes where ever he pleases,
But he always remembers to wash his hands,
So's he don't get no diseases"

*Zell & Sorenson, Journal of Wilderness Medicine 4, 147-154 (1993).

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nctry

02/23/2019 11:32AM

One of the reasons group solos are attractive is having your own food and stuff. You can control your hygiene. I agree totally about that part. But filtering to me is a great safeguard. Like a fire department with one fire a year... it’s good to have when you do.

Nctry

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em8260

02/23/2019 12:54PM

I understand the chances are low, but when you include words like "whiter" and "priveleged" in the article or any I immediately stop reading. How about writing an article without some liberal spin to it....and I do filter my water.

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riverrunner

02/24/2019 08:39AM

I filter or boil. having had Giardia most likely from swimming.

I filter my water having traveled in a of the western states AK and Canada.

Treating water is not a new thing I was taught to boil back in the 60's.

Filters make it a lot easier when moving.

Have at it non filterers good luck to you.

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straighthairedcurly

02/24/2019 10:55AM

I grew up paddling the BWCA and Canada often for a month or more at a time. We never, ever filtered or treated our water in anyway. I never suffered a single ill effect nor did any of my travel partners.

My husband, however, seems extremely susceptible to gastric problems from water. He developed Giardia from swallowing river water during a dunking on a rafting/kayaking trip and since then he has become very sensitive.

He has never had a problem by just using a Steri-pen. He carries an opaque liter water bottle and we just have the duffer use that with the Steri-pen to disinfect water from the middle of the lake and refill everyone else's water bottle while we travel.

I still take the occasional cup of water in the BWCA without treating...shh, don't tell him. Still never a negative effect.

If anyone bothers to study it, I will bet that they find some guts can tolerate exposure to a low number of parasites and be fine, while other people are more susceptible to dangerous ill effects. Otherwise, how would humans have survived this long? It isn't like parasites have just appeared in our water. However, I will never criticize anyone for taking plenty of precautions.

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Pinetree

02/24/2019 11:11AM

It is best to filter or treat water.
That said much is to do with location-location your getting water. Rivers or creeks are terrible. Along lake shores not very good. Mid lake much better.

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minnmike

02/24/2019 11:15AM

I agree that filtering since they are available is probably the right thing to do. But as with all topics there are two sides an issue. Our bodies are in a constant battle trying to protect us from these little critters. If we are no longer exposed to them, via filtering, what will be the long term result? Same thing is going on with kids now that are not exposed to the woods and dirt. So I guess you win and lose either way.

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Pinetree

02/24/2019 11:30AM

Quite a cutey

I think people should differentiate parasites from bacteria and viruses and building up immunity systems. Either way I don't want to be the body that is used as a system of building immunity.

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Duckman

02/24/2019 12:08PM

I take a look at the map and dip in the deepest part a good distance from shore.

On a shallow like or small creeks or rivers, I make sure and use my life straw nalgene.

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HowardSprague

02/24/2019 12:23PM

I fail to recognize any inconvenience or unpleasantness in filtering. Unless, maybe, I'm paddling, super thirsty, have run out of water, and am working my way through wind and waves and am hesitant to stop paddling. Then I might dip my bottle and grab some.

"Enjoy every sandwich"

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Pinetree

02/24/2019 12:38PM

HowardSprague: "I fail to recognize any inconvenience or unpleasantness in filtering. Unless, maybe, I'm paddling, super thirsty, have run out of water, and am working my way through wind and waves and am hesitant to stop paddling. Then I might dip my bottle and grab some. "

I agree and kind of enjoy it. It is part of the whole camping trip. Like gathering wood for the campfire etc..

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hobbydog

02/24/2019 01:05PM

I hate pumping water. When I started paddling WCPP and Atikaki I found the water much more tannic and filters got pretty clogged after about 10 days. I started dipping out of the middle of the lake. I still filter when I need water in questionable places and that includes any shoreline. One side benefit of dipping is that I found it easier to stay hydrated, especially on warm travel days. No need to ration between pumping. People should spend a lot more time talking about hygiene, especially handwashing.

The best thing one can do when it's raining is to let it rain. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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drnatus

02/24/2019 01:16PM

I would suspect that the vast number of giardia/cryptosporidium cases from wilderness drinking are under reported. Even if it is reported to your local health department, that may not be associated back to the wilderness one was in.

I also agree that hand washing is key.

For me it is cost effective to filter all my water instead of being out of work an additional 3-7 days beyond vacation from an water borne illness (not to mention the discomfort involved in being sick).

I will continue to filter all of my water.

Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!

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timatkn

02/24/2019 01:47PM

The biggest thing I agree with in the article is hygiene being more important than filtering and is too often over looked.

I use a gravity filter...it is just so easy. Prior to that I only filtered in locations where there was running water or shallow water.

You can still get it while swimming, walking through a bog or shallow water then you tighten your shoelaces and later eat or touch your water bottle. There are many chances for getting giardia...even just collecting your water near shore you might cross contaminate and actually be at more risk than the guy that gets their water for. The middle of the lake and doesn’t filter.

I wonder what the real rate of giardia is in the BWCAW? I have had people tell me they had it but then further questioning it was never properly diagnosed or they actually weren’t tested so you cannot be sure. Then some people can have it and not really suffer too badly.

Just use common sense and have fun I guess!

T

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Pinetree

02/24/2019 02:52PM

Well I don't know what percent get it but I was tested and did get it from Island River. I am sure you could look at certain areas your much more liable to get it than others. It is very easy to test for and big enough I think they just use a microscope.

Do you know what I worry about and don't really know if any exist in the BWCA that is transferable to humans. Things like tapeworms,roundworms or flukes. I know some may take a intermediary host.
I do know in a few isolated areas around Ely northern pike and Cisco(tullibee) carry a larvae stage of a tapeworm if you eat the fish raw and it has that larvae stage you can get a adult tapeworm 35 feet long in you. Like I said I believe it is rare,but know it is present. It was brought over from Europe like 100 years ago.

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lindylair

02/24/2019 05:18PM

hobbydog, If I was still pumping water I would probably not be filtering either. That is an inefficient and unreliable not to mention inconvenient way to filter water. The squeezable bottles nowadays are the way to go while traveling and for in camp a good gravity filter system is so easy to use it actually encourages you to drink more.
Throw that pump away!

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hobbydog

02/24/2019 07:38PM

lindylair: "hobbydog, If I was still pumping water I would probably not be filtering either. That is an inefficient and unreliable not to mention inconvenient way to filter water. The squeezable bottles nowadays are the way to go while traveling and for in camp a good gravity filter system is so easy to use it actually encourages you to drink more.
Throw that pump away!"

Gravity filters clog fast in bog stained water. I don't drink that much when in camp, I don't like getting up in the middle of the night to pee. I need the hydration when moving and I add Nuun hydration tablets to my water bottle, they don't make it past the filter in a squeeze bottle. Dipping has never hurt me yet.

The best thing one can do when it's raining is to let it rain. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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timatkn

02/24/2019 11:00PM

Pinetree: "Well I don't know what percent get it but I was tested and did get it from Island River. I am sure you could look at certain areas your much more liable to get it than others. It is very easy to test for and big enough I think they just use a microscope.

Do you know what I worry about and don't really know if any exist in the BWCA that is transferable to humans. Things like tapeworms,roundworms or flukes. I know some may take a intermediary host.
I do know in a few isolated areas around Ely northern pike and Cisco(tullibee) carry a larvae stage of a tapeworm if you eat the fish raw and it has that larvae stage you can get a adult tapeworm 35 feet long in you. Like I said I believe it is rare,but know it is present. It was brought over from Europe like 100 years ago."

If you cook fish thoroughly—not over cook—- practice reasonable hygiene you have almost a zero percent chance of getting roundworms, tapeworms or flukes.

T

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Pinetree

02/24/2019 11:33PM

timatkn: "
Pinetree: "Well I don't know what percent get it but I was tested and did get it from Island River. I am sure you could look at certain areas your much more liable to get it than others. It is very easy to test for and big enough I think they just use a microscope.

Do you know what I worry about and don't really know if any exist in the BWCA that is transferable to humans. Things like tapeworms,roundworms or flukes. I know some may take a intermediary host.
I do know in a few isolated areas around Ely northern pike and Cisco(tullibee) carry a larvae stage of a tapeworm if you eat the fish raw and it has that larvae stage you can get a adult tapeworm 35 feet long in you. Like I said I believe it is rare,but know it is present. It was brought over from Europe like 100 years ago."

If you cook fish thoroughly—not over cook—- practice reasonable hygiene you have almost a zero percent chance of getting roundworms, tapeworms,flukes.

T"

Correct

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Minnesotian

02/25/2019 07:57AM

Filter or don't, I don't care. All I know is that filtering eliminates a risk that I face while canoeing. So, if you are with me on a trip, we are filtering.

Also, a bottle of hand sanitizer rides with my trowel and toilet paper. I think that article is crap, but does highlight keeping sanitary conditions as much as possible. And I agree with that.

"It is more important to live for the possibilities that lie ahead than to die in despair over what has been lost." -Barry Lopez

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BearBurrito

02/25/2019 08:30AM

If filtering wasn't so easy I might consider going without, but it takes me no time to make sure that I have clean water, so why not?

One thorn of experience is worth a whole wilderness of warning

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HowardSprague

02/25/2019 10:42AM

I received an IM from Skippy the Giardia Cyst, and he wanted me to relay that he is enjoying this thread. (He is unable to post at the moment)

"Enjoy every sandwich"

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drnatus

02/25/2019 01:34PM

Minnesotian: "Filter or don't, I don't care. All I know is that filtering eliminates "

I will split a hair and encourage you to think about changing the word "eliminating" to "drastically decreases."

There have been rare cases of people who were thought to have gotten infection by swimming or paddling and getting splashed. As few as 10 giardia cysts have been shown to to cause infection. Surface water that is infected typically can have 10 cysts per Liter which would be a heck of a lot of splashed water paddling. Untreated sewage can have 100,000 cysts per liter. So I think the "splash thing" is highly unlikely..... unless you are paddling through sewage.

Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!

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Pinetree

02/25/2019 01:47PM

drnatus: "
Minnesotian: "Filter or don't, I don't care. All I know is that filtering eliminates "

I will split a hair and encourage you to think about changing the word "eliminating" to "drastically decreases."

There have been rare cases of people who were thought to have gotten infection by swimming or paddling and getting splashed. As few as 10 giardia cysts have been shown to to cause infection. Surface water that is infected typically can have 10 cysts per Liter which would be a heck of a lot of splashed water paddling. Untreated sewage can have 100,000 cysts per liter. So I think the "splash thing" is highly unlikely..... unless you are paddling through sewage.

"

I got it once in the Pine River north of Brainerd by getting splashed on my lips. Probably got wet a few times that day. Yes Doctor verified it.
That being said I have been in that river before maybe 35 years in the spring in that riverand got it once. Yes it is possible. Sometimes when they hatch they can be concentrated.
This was downstream from a big cattle operation and a few beaver houses upstream. The cattle could be a source of the giardia also?

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drnatus

02/25/2019 02:49PM

Pinetree: "Yes it is possible. Sometimes when they hatch they can be concentrated.
This was downstream from a big cattle operation and a few beaver houses upstream. The cattle could be a source of the giardia also?"

Yep, you were likely "paddling through sewage".

Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!

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voyager

02/25/2019 04:56PM

I've read diarrhea is hereditary, it runs in your jeans.

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arctic

02/25/2019 07:21PM

I've been drinking unfiltered water from lakes (and some rivers) in the Quetico-Superior--and all the way up to the Arctic Circle since 1979. No problems. You just have to be careful where you get that water.

I would suggest that poor personal sanitation (hand washing, boiling dishes, etc) gets more backcountry travelers sick than anything else.

People with weak immune systems or who don't/can't adapt to local water conditions should always treat their drinking water.

As a general rule, don't drink near shorelines, on beaver flowages/small streams. Don't drink in watersheds where there is shoreline development.

Big lakes are far safer than streams, because UV tends to kill bacteria, and parasite cysts tend to settle out. Flowing water keeps cysts (if any) suspended.

I do filter out west, because giardiasis is more common there, and there is a surprisingly large amount of human waste in alpine watersheds that tends to break down very slowly in high elevation soils.

If you take a sober look at the water quality of BWCA-Quetico lakes, it is likely far safer than what many Americans drink from their taps. Nitrates and farm chemicals are common in the surface and groundwater across the vast agricultural regions of America, not to mention industrial waste. Much of that stuff is NOT removed by wastewater treatment plants. You won't likely get parasites or harmful bacteria, though.

“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” -Edward Abbey

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drnatus

02/26/2019 09:01AM

arctic: "Big lakes are far safer than streams, because UV tends to kill bacteria, and parasite cysts tend to settle out. Flowing water keeps cysts (if any) suspended.
"

That certainly sounds like it makes a lot of sense... but then I can imagine someone stating that lakes can have more algae and that blocks UV and the stagnating water doesn't flush away cysts from an area that animals are using to defecate. but this is PURE CONJECTURE on my part.

I am GUESSING that there are a number of variables and likely more often bigger lakes are better than streams. (did I qualify enough with the lame "likely more often" comment)

We all have to accept the risks we decide to take.

Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!

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Pinetree

02/26/2019 09:12AM

I do believe I read Giardia are heavier than water and do get stirred up more in streams and wave action,thus they are in the water column more when those conditions exist.

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Kelso

02/26/2019 10:11AM

Lots of opinions in this thread. Let's take a poll. Let me know if you want to add an option that you don't see.

Water Filtering Poll

Water Filtering Poll Results

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Pinetree

02/26/2019 10:17AM

There is some like myself still treat my water with iodine pills but like rivers may do both.

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VoyageurNorth

02/26/2019 01:17PM

Kelso: "Lots of opinions in this thread. Let's take a poll. Let me know if you want to add an option that you don't see.

Water Filtering Poll

Water Filtering Poll Results

"

Thanks for creating the poll!

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Michwall2

02/26/2019 02:55PM

I guess this all depends on this - Know the source of your water.

I will never forget the story a ranger in the Grand Tetons National Park told us. As he was hiking through the park he came upon a family swimming in a pool at the base of a waterfall. He thought about speaking to them about water quality safety but went on his way instead. He hiked the route to the top of the falls and there near the brink of the falls lay the decaying corpse of a moose. All the water flowing over the falls washed over that moose.

If you are sure of the source of your water, then I think you can safely drink without filter or treatment. If you are in any way unsure, then I think you must treat or filter.

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SOVOS

02/28/2019 09:26AM

We UV everything with the SteriPen. It's easy and does not take much time.

wohelo!

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Pinetree

02/28/2019 09:39AM

SOVOS: "We UV everything with the SteriPen. It's easy and does not take much time."

Often wondered how effective they are in killing giardia and bacteria? I have no idea?

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thebotanyguy

02/28/2019 11:37AM

Pinetree: "
SOVOS: "We UV everything with the SteriPen. It's easy and does not take much time."

Often wondered how effective they are in killing giardia and bacteria? I have no idea?"

The claim by the manufacturer is 99.9% effectiveness. When independently tested, the results back the manufacturer's claim, IF the device is used according to instructions.

Link to independent published results

One minor correction - the UV is not a death ray and does not actually "kill" the microorganisms. The UV disrupts the microorganism's DNA, and it subsequently cannot reproduce in your intestinal tract. For this reason, it is effective against viruses which are ordinarily not removed by most filtration methods.

"Said one of these men, long past seventy years of age: 'I could carry, paddle, walk and sing with any man I ever saw. I have been twenty-four years a canoe man, and forty-one years in service; no portage was ever too long for me. Fifty songs could I sing. I have saved the lives of ten voyageurs. Have had twelve wives and six running dogs. I spent all my money in pleasure. Were I young again, I should spend my life the same way over. There is no life so happy as a voyageur's life!'"

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Pinetree

02/28/2019 12:07PM

thebotanyguy: "
Pinetree: "
SOVOS: "We UV everything with the SteriPen. It's easy and does not take much time."

Often wondered how effective they are in killing giardia and bacteria? I have no idea?"

The claim by the manufacturer is 99.9% effectiveness. When independently tested, the results back the manufacturer's claim, IF the device is used according to instructions.

Link to independent published results

One minor correction - the UV is not a death ray and does not actually "kill" the microorganisms. The UV disrupts the microorganism's DNA, and it subsequently cannot reproduce in your intestinal tract. For this reason, it is effective against viruses which are ordinarily not removed by most filtration methods."

Does like Bog stained or water with a lot of algae or dirty water affect the UV,it would seem like maybe it could?

O'Kay I looked at your reference posts it answers my question, it says: water needs to be clear because any turbidity weakens the UV radiation ? it may be necessary to pre-filtrate the water

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andym

02/28/2019 03:43PM

For cloudy water, it can also be helpful to do multiple treatments with the steripen. That can help get each bit of water close enough to the light source for the bugs to get blasted.

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nctry

03/01/2019 06:00AM

Michwall2: "I guess this all depends on this - Know the source of your water.

I will never forget the story a ranger in the Grand Tetons National Park told us. As he was hiking through the park he came upon a family swimming in a pool at the base of a waterfall. He thought about speaking to them about water quality safety but went on his way instead. He hiked the route to the top of the falls and there near the brink of the falls lay the decaying corpse of a moose. All the water flowing over the falls washed over that moose.

If you are sure of the source of your water, then I think you can safely drink without filter or treatment. If you are in any way unsure, then I think you must treat or filter."

Could you imagine swimming below a falls and a corpse come falling down next to ya?

Anyways, I started filtering way back when when I read what the filter filtered. The thing that stood out was tape worm eggs. I wouldn't feel comfortable drinking them dead or alive. Haha! To me the steripen has been as predictable as dipping away from shore. Save your moola! Only time I've personally got Guardia was with a Steripen.
I'm thinking canoe country has a good amount of beaver and other rodents and animals compared naturally. Know your source is good advice and hygiene is something I've seen as a concern. More apt to catch a walleye than a bug out in the middle of Basswood. Haha...

Nctry

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Pinetree

03/01/2019 06:33AM

nctry: "
Michwall2: "I guess this all depends on this - Know the source of your water.

I will never forget the story a ranger in the Grand Tetons National Park told us. As he was hiking through the park he came upon a family swimming in a pool at the base of a waterfall. He thought about speaking to them about water quality safety but went on his way instead. He hiked the route to the top of the falls and there near the brink of the falls lay the decaying corpse of a moose. All the water flowing over the falls washed over that moose.

If you are sure of the source of your water, then I think you can safely drink without filter or treatment. If you are in any way unsure, then I think you must treat or filter."

Could you imagine swimming below a falls and a corpse come falling down next to ya?

Anyways, I started filtering way back when when I read what the filter filtered. The thing that stood out was tape worm eggs. I wouldn't feel comfortable drinking them dead or alive. Haha! To me the steripen has been as predictable as dipping away from shore. Save your moola! Only time I've personally got Guardia was with a Steripen.
I'm thinking canoe country has a good amount of beaver and other rodents and animals compared naturally. Know your source is good advice and hygiene is something I've seen as a concern. More apt to catch a walleye than a bug out in the middle of Basswood. Haha..."

Looked at two different reference sies. One said steripen kills Giardia cysts as advertised, Another site that tested said Giardia cysts were not killed.

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straighthairedcurly

03/01/2019 10:35AM

Yes, the Steri-pen is very dependent on using it properly. You must use the correct amount of water in an opaque vessel. You can't just stick it in a Nalgene bottle. The water level has to be the right height. If the water is not clear, you also need to treat it for longer and agitate the water.

I am not a good test case for its effectiveness since nothing survives a trip through my gut anyway. But my husband is susceptible to the tiniest exposure to any bacteria, virus, or parasite. Since he started using it everywhere he travels, he has had zero problems.

The moose story reminds me of my geology professor in college. His side job was to educate farmers about not throwing waste or carcasses into the sinkholes on their property. They didn't know that the sinkholes were a direct conduit to their drinking water well...

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VoyageurNorth

03/01/2019 03:35PM

I use a Steripen all the time in the canoe country.

I stir the pen around and usually do it twice just to be sure anyway.

I do not drink the yucky water yet I do not care if it has some "orange" color in it. So if the water is that dark/cloudy, I'd pass it by. Luckily, since I go canoeing in the BWCA/Quetico, I wouldn't have to go far to find "lighter" water.

And the claim of the Steripen is that it doesn't kill the giardia/bacteria, it makes those things not able to reproduce in your system, so they go in & they leave, without leaving any "children" behind! ;-)

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nooneuno

03/01/2019 11:35PM

VoyageurNorth: so they go in & they leave, without leaving any "children" behind! ;-)
"

nope, not touching it, waayy to easy...

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VoyageurNorth

03/02/2019 01:01AM

nooneuno: "
VoyageurNorth: so they go in & they leave, without leaving any "children" behind! ;-)
"

nope, not touching it, waayy to easy..."

Ha, shows you got my meaning! :-)

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moray

03/02/2019 09:22AM

This thread might be of interest to the people in the weight loss contest.

Moray

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HowardSprague

03/03/2019 08:27AM

moray: "This thread might be of interest to the people in the weight loss contest."

LOL good point! Makes me rethink my filtering, I could stand to shed a couple dozen lbs!

"Enjoy every sandwich"

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boonie

03/03/2019 12:50PM

HowardSprague: "
moray: "This thread might be of interest to the people in the weight loss contest."

LOL good point! Makes me rethink my filtering, I could stand to shed a couple dozen lbs!
"

It works, too. Way faster than diet and exercise, even faster than fasting. A lot more unpleasant though.

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carmike

03/03/2019 01:50PM

RetiredDave: "

(PS: When I get my first case of the runs I will issue an apology.)"

I believe giardia is technically known as "the sprints." :)

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gravelroad

03/03/2019 07:41PM

This is like shooting fish in a (rain) barrel:

”Sixty percent of non-immigrant and refugee cases were male. Giardia infections showed a summer/fall seasonality; 46% of non-immigrant and refugee cases occurred during July through October. ”

It strains credulity to imagine that personal hygiene takes a dip ever-so-coincidentally with the peak of the outdoor season in this state.

I knew of a case in a trapper in AK who was alone and disabled for days by the giardiasis that struck him.

I took a biology course from a parasitologist at the U when I was a freshman.

I treat all water I get from surface water. All of it.

Giardiasis Statistics

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