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missmolly
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03/05/2019 08:39AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Our nation's forests.

You can see the BWWCA. You can also see the Great Plains and deserts. Does anyone know what accounts for that crescent-shaped swath of green in New Mexico?
 
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inspector13
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03/05/2019 08:55AM  

According to Google Maps: From top left to bottom right: Grand Canyon and Kaibab National forest, Coconino National Forest, Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest and Tonto National Forest, and finally Gila National Forest.

 
03/05/2019 09:30AM  
inspector13: "
According to Google Maps: From top left to bottom right: Grand Canyon and Kaibab National forest, Coconino National Forest, Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest and Tonto National Forest, and finally Gila National Forest.


"


Also mixed in there is the Fort Apache and San Carlos Indian Rez's, also Apachee NF and probabaly Cibola NF. I've camped or fought fires in most of those National Forests mentioned.

I like the map legend at the bottom left.

"Aboveground Woody Biomass (tons per hectacre)"
Quite the difference in color along the west coast.
 
BearBurrito
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03/05/2019 09:43AM  
Very cool, thanks
 
missmolly
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03/05/2019 11:53AM  
Thanks for the education, gang!
 
Bushpilot
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03/05/2019 12:30PM  
missmolly: " Our nation's forests.

You can see the BWWCA. You can also see the Great Plains and deserts. Does anyone know what accounts for that crescent-shaped swath of green in New Mexico? "


I believe it is the Temperate Sierras mountains. Nice map.
 
Bushpilot
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03/05/2019 12:32PM  
LindenTree: "
inspector13: "
According to Google Maps: From top left to bottom right: Grand Canyon and Kaibab National forest, Coconino National Forest, Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest and Tonto National Forest, and finally Gila National Forest.



"



Also mixed in there is the Fort Apache and San Carlos Indian Rez's, also Apachee NF and probabaly Cibola NF. I've camped or fought fires in most of those National Forests mentioned.


I like the map legend at the bottom left.


"Aboveground Woody Biomass (tons per hectacre)"
Quite the difference in color along the west coast."
Ever been to the Hopi Rez at Three Mesas ? It is a must visit area.
 
03/05/2019 02:19PM  
Bushpilot: Ever been to the Hopi Rez at Three Mesas ? It is a must visit area."


I don't think I have ever set foot on the Hopi Rez, last fall I spent 2 days camping just outside of the Navajo Nation, at the Valley of the Gods/BLM land similiar to Monument Valley.

I googled the Hopi Rez, sounds like an interesting culture going back a few thousand years. 1st, 2nd and Third Mesa's are mentioned.
 
Bushpilot
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03/05/2019 04:25PM  
Linden I will be in Valley of the Gods area in 3 weeks. I will be flying into backcountry airstrips in Utah. Goggle has a lot of the backcountry strips on video, many are old mine sites,etc…..than off to Death Valley via the Grand Canyon North side. Sorry MM for hijacking your thread. Couple of pictures from Hopi Land
 
missmolly
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03/05/2019 04:48PM  
Yeah, you hijacked the thread and did the equivalent of making me land in the British Virgin Islands where my plane was headed to Yemen. So, thanks for the hijacking. Love those photos!
 
03/05/2019 08:39PM  
missmolly: " Our nation's forests.

You can see the BWWCA. You can also see the Great Plains and deserts. Does anyone know what accounts for that crescent-shaped swath of green in New Mexico? "



I believe most of that is in Arizona. Google "Mogollon Rim". It's the escarpment between the Colorado Plateau and the more arid basin to the southwest.
 
analyzer
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03/05/2019 11:23PM  
Very Cool Map, Thanks.

However, when I stare at it, I start to think I'm supposed to look for hidden animal pictures.
 
03/06/2019 03:17AM  
Notice how the E. Half of the Lower 48 has most of the "green". That's mainly because the further E you go from the Western Mountain Ranges - and with access to the Gulf of Mexico- (the Rockies cut off the Pacific pretty much) things get wetter weather like. I could write a paper on this- but the map does it much better than I could. For those thinking I'am nuts- it comes down to elevation and avg annual dewpoints and snows - and these snows come from moisture sources, - one most understand the lapse rate / dewpoint to really see what Iam talking about - and there are exceptions to this - but this map really portrays the moisture laden areas of the country. It's a boreal biomass (soft wood) in N.MN etc. -- different strokes in the S- but still moisture driven. Where you get more sun (energy) - you get more hardwood- and this gets into brass tacks when it comes to AGW- but I will not hijack the thread,
 
missmolly
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03/06/2019 06:31AM  
WhiteWolf: "Notice how the E. Half of the Lower 48 has most of the "green". That's mainly because the further E you go from the Western Mountain Ranges - and with access to the Gulf of Mexico- (the Rockies cut off the Pacific pretty much) things get wetter weather like. I could write a paper on this- but the map does it much better than I could. For those thinking I'am nuts- it comes down to elevation and avg annual dewpoints and snows - and these snows come from moisture sources, - one most understand the lapse rate / dewpoint to really see what Iam talking about - and there are exceptions to this - but this map really portrays the moisture laden areas of the country. It's a boreal biomass (soft wood) in N.MN etc. -- different strokes in the S- but still moisture driven. Where you get more sun (energy) - you get more hardwood- and this gets into brass tacks when it comes to AGW- but I will not hijack the thread, "


Not hijacking at all. When I looked at the map, I immediately thought of moisture too. Not as detailed as you do, of course, but I connected two dots, T(rees) and M(oisture), whereas you connected T, M, D, S, E, H, and G.
 
rtbaum
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03/06/2019 06:44AM  
It is a cute little map, but it ignores the areas that contain the highest biomass, i.e., the prairie.
 
KarlBAndersen1
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03/06/2019 06:50AM  
We really have stripped this place from what it was. But I guess we had to have houses and had to have agriculture.
I'm sure you've all heard that when the Europeans got here they said a squirrel could go from the east coast to the Mississippi river and never touch the ground.
 
mc2mens
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03/06/2019 06:50AM  
Great map. If you travel much across the country you can see this on the landscape. I do believe WhiteWolf is correct that the map does reflect moisture content. The great plains, where there is a lack of woody biomass, running north-south through the center of the country stands out on this map.
 
missmolly
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03/06/2019 08:39AM  
KarlBAndersen1: "We really have stripped this place from what it was. But I guess we had to have houses and had to have agriculture.
I'm sure you've all heard that when the Europeans got here they said a squirrel could go from the east coast to the Mississippi river and never touch the ground."


And one of every four trees was a chestnut.

Behold what remains of the redwoods of the East.

I've planted two on my property, both containing the gene from wheat that provides immunity to the mold that killed the chestnuts. I hope they'll have lots of babies and slowly restore the old forest, marching west to the Mississippi.

See the little leaders on the ancient chestnut? They only live about 20 years before the mold kills them, but that's the stock that they joined with the wheat gene to make mold-proof chestnuts. It's so exciting!

Here's what might be again. Fingers and genes crossed!
 
missmolly
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03/06/2019 08:47AM  
rtbaum: "It is a cute little map, but it ignores the areas that contain the highest biomass, i.e., the prairie."


Tell me more, please. I did a cursory internet search, but couldn't find substantiation for your claim.

Are you thinking that since biomass is measured by cutting it, drying it in a oven, and then weighing it, that the accumulated plants of the Great Plains surpass the dehydrated weight of the trees because the crops and grass rapidly grow again and again, year after year, i.e. a hundred years of corn or native grasses outweigh a century of trees?
 
inspector13
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03/06/2019 10:40AM  
missmolly: "Behold what remains of the redwoods of the East. "

Guido’s picture of the 500 year old tree is actually of Castanea sativa, or Sweet Chestnut, which is native to the Mediterranean and Black Sea regions through the Caucasus. The eastern US tree you are most likely referring to is Castanea dentate. Both species are susceptible to Chestnut blight disease, which originated in East Asia, but the American species is much more so.

 
dentondoc
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03/06/2019 11:36AM  
In addition to the possible explanations previously identified, there is one other possibility from ancient times. Long ago, the western/southwestern portion of New Mexico was volcanic. This is clearly evident along many of the hiking trails in the Gila Wilderness area, as volcanic rock the the primary material that you are hiking on. And there is other evidence, if you know what you are looking at (geologically). An example are the hiking trails surrounding and through the San Pedro Peaks area (another of the National Parks, just outside Cuba, NM). If you are paying attention, you will notice a reasonably steep ascent from the forest floor followed by a rapid decent to a comparatively lush valley. You have just dropped into a giant caldera that is approximately 20 miles across. To get a better "picture" of New Mexico from times gone by, you might take a look at this map.

Volcanic activity in New Mexico



dd
 
03/06/2019 03:43PM  
Yes, chestnuts would be nice to see again!
I tried a couple of them in my yard in Lincoln, NE. Not there now.
There are a few 60+ foot american's in Nebraska City, Arbor Lodge Mansion property, Julius Sterling Morton home.

Upon further review, not sure they are there anymore. Been about 20 years.
 
missmolly
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03/06/2019 03:48PM  
inspector13: "
missmolly: "Behold what remains of the redwoods of the East. "

Guido’s picture of the 500 year old tree is actually of Castanea sativa, or Sweet Chestnut, which is native to the Mediterranean and Black Sea regions through the Caucasus. The eastern US tree you are most likely referring to is Castanea dentate. Both species are susceptible to Chestnut blight disease, which originated in East Asia, but the American species is much more so.


"


Thanks for the correction!
 
rtbaum
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03/06/2019 06:54PM  
missmolly: "
rtbaum: "It is a cute little map, but it ignores the areas that contain the highest biomass, i.e., the prairie."



Tell me more, please. I did a cursory internet search, but couldn't find substantiation for your claim.


Are you thinking that since biomass is measured by cutting it, drying it in a oven, and then weighing it, that the accumulated plants of the Great Plains surpass the dehydrated weight of the trees because the crops and grass rapidly grow again and again, year after year, i.e. a hundred years of corn or native grasses outweigh a century of trees? "


It is something that I learned during agronomy education oh so long ago. The thing to keep in mind is that what you see above ground is a small representation of a prairie, the root system is about 80% of the grasses' biomass and many of the forbs. The Great Plains agricultural complex can thank the native prairies for the rich crops being grown. The Prairie biome is also one the most diverse on earth, rivaling rainforests. Roughly 1% of the original tallgrass prairie remains.
I think of it this way; the forest gave us shelter, but the prairie fed us.
 
Grizzlyman
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03/06/2019 10:24PM  
What I noticed right away was the zones with the least tree growth. The two that look like the have the least are the western Nebraska/Kansas section and the western minn/ eastern s Dakota sections.
 
missmolly
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03/07/2019 07:30AM  
rtbaum: "
missmolly: "
rtbaum: "It is a cute little map, but it ignores the areas that contain the highest biomass, i.e., the prairie."




Tell me more, please. I did a cursory internet search, but couldn't find substantiation for your claim.



Are you thinking that since biomass is measured by cutting it, drying it in a oven, and then weighing it, that the accumulated plants of the Great Plains surpass the dehydrated weight of the trees because the crops and grass rapidly grow again and again, year after year, i.e. a hundred years of corn or native grasses outweigh a century of trees? "



It is something that I learned during agronomy education oh so long ago. The thing to keep in mind is that what you see above ground is a small representation of a prairie, the root system is about 80% of the grasses' biomass and many of the forbs. The Great Plains agricultural complex can thank the native prairies for the rich crops being grown. The Prairie biome is also one the most diverse on earth, rivaling rainforests. Roughly 1% of the original tallgrass prairie remains.
I think of it this way; the forest gave us shelter, but the prairie fed us."


Thanks so much. I've always loved the prairie, but now I'll be even more impressed by all I can't see.
 
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