We are planning our first foray into a PMA this summer. I have been reading trip reports and posts on here, which have been very helpful. However, I am still a little unsure about the reservation system.

I have our regular entry permit reserved. In terms of the PMA, I have read that it is just first come, first served. But I have also read you can call the ranger station and have them pencil you into the book.

Can I call this early or should I wait until the permit season starts? Or is it hit or miss that they will write you in ahead of time versus showing up in person before they will count it as reserved?

Hope my question makes sense...we are super excited to give the PMAs a try.

I have never been to a PMA, but plan on going in May. I spoke with a Ranger at the Kawishiwi station and she told me they would not reserve. I would have to have my regular permit, and show up in person to reserve the PMA section I would be staying in. This was about 2 months ago.

" I did contact the Kawishiwi Ranger Station. A reservation is not required in October. The ranger did mention that if we did run into someone camping in October it would be courteous to move on and stay in a different zone. He also offered to make a reservation regarding a September overnight stay but, even though we'd made the reservation ahead of time, we'd still need to stop by the ranger station to pick up the PMA permit for legal PMA overnight access. He also confirmed that the PMA permit could not be picked up from an outfitter even if reserved ahead of time." - Paddlinjoe From October PMA Thread.
This was not my experience when I called the Kawishiwi Ranger Station. I was told they don't make reservations, first come, first served.

I wouldn't worry about it. The last time we reserved a PMA permit up in Ely, I actually saw the book - at the time a handwritten log. It was mid June & there were maybe a dozen entries for the season so far.

I know some of us love PMAs, but they don't see many travelers, especially those that are hard to reach. I'd say your chances of having your time already booked by someone else are very, very small.

PaddleAway: "I wouldn't worry about it. The last time we reserved a PMA permit up in Ely, I actually saw the book - at the time a handwritten log. It was mid June & there were maybe a dozen entries for the season so far.


I know some of us love PMAs, but they don't see many travelers, especially those that are hard to reach. I'd say your chances of having your time already booked by someone else are very, very small. "

That's good to know because it is a little disconcerting to plan for 6 months and have nothing settled for sure until you drive to a Ranger Station day of your trip.

Picked up my PMA permit from the Grand Marais ranger station as soon as they opened up in the morning. Same experience, couldn't reserve ahead of time, had to show up to the ranger station and it was just a 3-ring binder that they wrote my name into.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.

Seems to have changed, then, since I used PMA permits (last about 3 years ago or more ?). Back then, you could call in with PMA name, zone of PMA (most are divided into several zones) and date(s). No charge, but you needed your regular entry permit reservation #. You were best to call the specific office that had oversight of your PMA. At any rate, and as others have noted, not much overnight permit demand on PMA's... least not then.

Arrived at the Kawishiwi Ranger Station at 7:45 AM on the 21st of MAY. I was the first in line, picked up my permit then said I wanted to reserve Zone 4, Sterling lake for the 22nd-24th. She comes back and said it was reserved. I said I was told no one could reserve them ahead of time and I'm the first one here, how is that possible. She showed me the book and a lot of the PMA's were reserved for a long way out. She said that they even reserve them at other ranger stations for their area. The three female rangers present said I could have reserved it ahead of time. I was very angry and asked if another female ranger worked there. She said yes, there was one more but she wasn't coming in today. I explained that the rules stated they can't be reserved ahead of time, and that I was specifically told I could not reserve it until I came into the ranger station day of. She said the other female ranger I spoke with was wrong, and she should not have told me that. Great, there went 6 months of planning......

MidwestFirecraft: She said the other female ranger I spoke with was wrong, and she should not have told me that. Great, there went 6 months of planning......"

Wow, that's terrible. Sorry to hear that.

PaddleAway: "

MidwestFirecraft: She said the other female ranger I spoke with was wrong, and she should not have told me that. Great, there went 6 months of planning......"

Wow, that's terrible. Sorry to hear that. "

Yes, it was tough, and it wasn't my finest moment as I threw a mini tantrum in the ranger station that any 14 year old girl would be proud of. That having been said, my tripping partners didn't blame me and we mad the best of it. Even though the route significantly changed and it rained most the time we made good memories and had a great time.

Thank you so much for posting this. Sorry you had to learn this the hard way. I will get organized and call this week. I had moved it off my plate, but we are really, really looking forward to this trip this summer and I would be making a scene worse than you had I been in your shoes. And my teenager HATES when I do that. So thank you again.

Sounds like, if you call and the person says they don't take reservations, better ask to speak to a longer resident worker at that place... Sorry about the problems.... PMA's are a good idea, but seems like the logistics aren't always well-shared with new employees.

Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August.

Glad it is all locked in for you. Enjoy the trip and let us know how it went.

MidwestFirecraft: "Arrived at the Kawishiwi Ranger Station at 7:45 AM on the 21st of MAY. I was the first in line, picked up my permit then said I wanted to reserve Zone 4, Sterling lake for the 22nd-24th. She comes back and said it was reserved. I said I was told no one could reserve them ahead of time and I'm the first one here, how is that possible. She showed me the book and a lot of the PMA's were reserved for a long way out. She said that they even reserve them at other ranger stations for their area. The three female rangers present said I could have reserved it ahead of time. I was very angry and asked if another female ranger worked there. She said yes, there was one more but she wasn't coming in today. I explained that the rules stated they can't be reserved ahead of time, and that I was specifically told I could not reserve it until I came into the ranger station day of. She said the other female ranger I spoke with was wrong, and she should not have told me that. Great, there went 6 months of planning......"

If you haven't done it, this needs to be elevated to the Forest Supervisor for the appropriate "follow-up", IMO. I wouldn't leave it to any single ranger station to take care of that:

Forest Supervisor's Office
Forest Supervisor: Connie Cummins
Deputy Forest Supervisor: Richard Periman
Address:
8901 Grand Avenue Place, Duluth, MN 55808
(218) 626-4300
Email: r9_superior_NF@fs.fed.us

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?

MidwestFirecraft: "

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?"

We made it and had a wonderful time. It was physically exhausting and definitely challenging for our group (ages 15, 55, 62 novice, and 66), but we really enjoyed it. Our entry was Missing Link...stayed on Snipe the first night. Then we went into Copper and dropped through the 3 puddles to get to Sora the next night. The next day we ended up with a 4.5 hour bushwhack to get from Mass to Ell so we stayed on Ell. Then we had a relatively short day to get to Iris where we stayed. Dropped into the Frost River the next day but water was low and we were exhausted so we took the easy way out and headed east to Frost Lake and then went back out via Missing Link.

I am working on a trip report, but I am waiting to see if my husband's phone comes back to life to get pictures off it (waterproof phone apparently had a cracked case and died at Round Lake our last day). I do have some video of some of our bushwhacking that I will post also.

straighthairedcurly: "

MidwestFirecraft: "

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?"

We made it and had a wonderful time. It was physically exhausting and definitely challenging for our group (ages 15, 55, 62 novice, and 66), but we really enjoyed it. Our entry was Missing Link...stayed on Snipe the first night. Then we went into Copper and dropped through the 3 puddles to get to Sora the next night. The next day we ended up with a 4.5 hour bushwhack to get from Mass to Ell so we stayed on Ell. Then we had a relatively short day to get to Iris where we stayed. Dropped into the Frost River the next day but water was low and we were exhausted so we took the easy way out and headed east to Frost Lake and then went back out via Missing Link.


I am working on a trip report, but I am waiting to see if my husband's phone comes back to life to get pictures off it (waterproof phone apparently had a cracked case and died at Round Lake our last day). I do have some video of some of our bushwhacking that I will post also."

That's a great route. That is the one I did a couple years ago. How was finding the trail? Did you get turned around/lost when you hit the big open marshy areas? Where did you stay on Iris? That is such a beautiful lake.

Glad you had a good trip!

Thank you for the follow up.

straighthairedcurly: "

MidwestFirecraft: "

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?"

We made it and had a wonderful time. It was physically exhausting and definitely challenging for our group (ages 15, 55, 62 novice, and 66), but we really enjoyed it. Our entry was Missing Link...stayed on Snipe the first night. Then we went into Copper and dropped through the 3 puddles to get to Sora the next night. The next day we ended up with a 4.5 hour bushwhack to get from Mass to Ell so we stayed on Ell. Then we had a relatively short day to get to Iris where we stayed. Dropped into the Frost River the next day but water was low and we were exhausted so we took the easy way out and headed east to Frost Lake and then went back out via Missing Link.

Thank you for sharing with us. Sounds like a memorable trip, can't wait to read the trip report.

I am working on a trip report, but I am waiting to see if my husband's phone comes back to life to get pictures off it (waterproof phone apparently had a cracked case and died at Round Lake our last day). I do have some video of some of our bushwhacking that I will post also."

Minnesotian: "

straighthairedcurly: "

MidwestFirecraft: "

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?"

We made it and had a wonderful time. It was physically exhausting and definitely challenging for our group (ages 15, 55, 62 novice, and 66), but we really enjoyed it. Our entry was Missing Link...stayed on Snipe the first night. Then we went into Copper and dropped through the 3 puddles to get to Sora the next night. The next day we ended up with a 4.5 hour bushwhack to get from Mass to Ell so we stayed on Ell. Then we had a relatively short day to get to Iris where we stayed. Dropped into the Frost River the next day but water was low and we were exhausted so we took the easy way out and headed east to Frost Lake and then went back out via Missing Link.



I am working on a trip report, but I am waiting to see if my husband's phone comes back to life to get pictures off it (waterproof phone apparently had a cracked case and died at Round Lake our last day). I do have some video of some of our bushwhacking that I will post also."

That's a great route. That is the one I did a couple years ago. How was finding the trail? Did you get turned around/lost when you hit the big open marshy areas? Where did you stay on Iris? That is such a beautiful lake.


Glad you had a good trip!"

If you are talking about the big marshy area between Mass and Ell, we decided to not travel through there. We went as far south into the bay on Mass as we could (toward the SW corner). Headed a bit SW at first and then cut down through the ravine on the contour map (mostly S, a little SSE at times). We never entered the marshy area...stayed in forest the whole way. That area is relatively open forest and I find the footing to be much better in the forest rather than marshy areas with hummocks...especially given that one member of our party had sketchy knees and should have dropped as least as many pounds as I did before the trip.

On Iris we camped on the east side of the narrows half way down. Beautiful, but extremely delicate site full of moss. Felt like I wanted to walk around as little as possible.

gravelroad: "

MidwestFirecraft: "Arrived at the Kawishiwi Ranger Station at 7:45 AM on the 21st of MAY. I was the first in line, picked up my permit then said I wanted to reserve Zone 4, Sterling lake for the 22nd-24th. She comes back and said it was reserved. I said I was told no one could reserve them ahead of time and I'm the first one here, how is that possible. She showed me the book and a lot of the PMA's were reserved for a long way out. She said that they even reserve them at other ranger stations for their area. The three female rangers present said I could have reserved it ahead of time. I was very angry and asked if another female ranger worked there. She said yes, there was one more but she wasn't coming in today. I explained that the rules stated they can't be reserved ahead of time, and that I was specifically told I could not reserve it until I came into the ranger station day of. She said the other female ranger I spoke with was wrong, and she should not have told me that. Great, there went 6 months of planning......"

If you haven't done it, this needs to be elevated to the Forest Supervisor for the appropriate "follow-up", IMO. I wouldn't leave it to any single ranger station to take care of that:


Forest Supervisor's Office
Forest Supervisor: Connie Cummins
Deputy Forest Supervisor: Richard Periman
Address:
8901 Grand Avenue Place, Duluth, MN 55808
(218) 626-4300
Email: r9_superior_NF@fs.fed.us


"

Well it’s been my experience that they don’t contact you back, even though I gave them my email, address, phone number. It’s happened more than once.

FYI for those wondering how early you can reserve a PMA permit. I called Kawishiwi ranger district today and they said they would not issue PMA today. They advised I call back tomorrow to reserve one.

So I guess there is a one day lag after general permits open.

I called at 9:15 and she took mine. I said I want to make sure this time because of my last experience and she also told me she was not supposed to be taking reservations. Here we go again!

I've made multiple PMA reservations in the past and never once had any troubles.

I wonder what their problem is. It makes absolutely no sense to not be able to reserve a PMA. It's not like it's a last minute spur of the moment type thing you decide to do as you pick up your regular permit.

So maybe they've been doing it wrong all these years by letting people make reservations over the phone.

I got this flyer about 15 years ago from the USFS. It says authorization can only be received by visiting a USFS office and that they are first come first serve.

If they aren't going to allow phone reservations then it needs to be consistent. You can't have it both ways.

MidwestFirecraft: "I called at 9:15 and she took mine. I said I want to make sure this time because of my last experience and she also told me she was not supposed to be taking reservations. Here we go again!"

Hope you have a successful trip this time around. That was a bummer last year. I was grateful that I was able to learn from your experience. This summer, no PMA in the plans, but we are hoping to do the Frost River that we had to skip last summer.

straighthairedcurly: "

MidwestFirecraft: "I called at 9:15 and she took mine. I said I want to make sure this time because of my last experience and she also told me she was not supposed to be taking reservations. Here we go again!"

Hope you have a successful trip this time around. That was a bummer last year. I was grateful that I was able to learn from your experience. This summer, no PMA in the plans, but we are hoping to do the Frost River that we had to skip last summer."

Thank you! Love your trip report. Gave me confidence that I will be able to knock it out this year, that is if I get the PMA permit...

MidwestFirecraft: "I called at 9:15 and she took mine. I said I want to make sure this time because of my last experience and she also told me she was not supposed to be taking reservations. Here we go again!"

I'm glad it worked for you as long as you didn't take the one I want! ;)

I know many of you were on the edge of your seats... but I did get my PMAs reserved this morning. She made me a little nervous when she told me some of the zones were already reserved for my dates, but I guess my particular zones were available! Can't wait for the trip!

I had a horrible feeling so I called to confirm this morning and they had me down for the opposite dates for the zones I wanted in the Sundial PMA! I spoke with Meggy "The Boss" as she stated and assured me it was right this time. I if I have this much difficulty reserving a PMA permit think of what would happen if I tried to go to Canada:)

BigOarDeal: "I know many of you were on the edge of your seats... but I did get my PMAs reserved this morning. She made me a little nervous when she told me some of the zones were already reserved for my dates, but I guess my particular zones were available! Can't wait for the trip!"

BigOarDeal,
Now that your dates are locked in and PMA permit reserved, where are you going? I'll be on White Feather and Sterling if everything goes to plan.

BigOarDeal,
Now that your dates are locked in and PMA permit reserved, where are you going? I'll be on White Feather and Sterling if everything goes to plan."

I wonder if you were the other person reserving that weekend! We are going in the end of May.

Day 1 - Enter at Angleworm
Day 2 - Sunday
Day 3 - Sterling
Day 4 - White Feather
Day 5 - Exit at Stuart River

Ha! that would be me. I'll be in a Bell Morningstar solo if we cross paths.

I'll be sure to look for you (and your flying moose sticker, I assume?)! Is it a solo trip for you? There will be a group of four of us. Are you doing an out and back from Stuart River?

BigOarDeal: "I'll be sure to look for you (and your flying moose sticker, I assume?)! Is it a solo trip for you? There will be a group of four of us. Are you doing an out and back from Stuart River?"

Yes sir, look for the flying moose. It will be me and a good friend of mine Marc in solo canoes. He will have a Northwind solo and I will have the Morningstar. Hope to see you and hope you have a great trip!
Edit: Forgot to mention, yes in and out through Stuart River.

straighthairedcurly: "

MidwestFirecraft: "

straighthairedcurly: "Just called the Gunflint ranger station and had no problem reserving our PMA entry in August. "

Did you make it into a PMA like planned? How did it go?"

We made it and had a wonderful time. It was physically exhausting and definitely challenging for our group (ages 15, 55, 62 novice, and 66), but we really enjoyed it. Our entry was Missing Link...stayed on Snipe the first night. Then we went into Copper and dropped through the 3 puddles to get to Sora the next night. The next day we ended up with a 4.5 hour bushwhack to get from Mass to Ell so we stayed on Ell. Then we had a relatively short day to get to Iris where we stayed. Dropped into the Frost River the next day but water was low and we were exhausted so we took the easy way out and headed east to Frost Lake and then went back out via Missing Link.


I am working on a trip report, but I am waiting to see if my husband's phone comes back to life to get pictures off it (waterproof phone apparently had a cracked case and died at Round Lake our last day). I do have some video of some of our bushwhacking that I will post also."

I know this is from a while ago but thank you for the post. My friend has been asking for a bushwhacking trip for a few years now and since I'm the one that usually plans them this year I had picked Hairy Lake PMA as our target and your route is similar to what I was looking at. Sounds tough :) We have a party of 4-5 usually

Zombie, here is the link to my trip report. You are probably in better condition than us. It was a beautiful area, though not much luck fishing. We are not hardcore about fishing, though.

Trip Report

straighthairedcurly: "Zombie, here is the link to my trip report. You are probably in better condition than us. It was a beautiful area, though not much luck fishing. We are not hardcore about fishing, though.


Trip Report "

Thanks for the trip report. Sounds like it was a fun time with some good challenges for you. Given the way you described yourselves I'm impressed that you planned and executed a PMA, so congratulations on that :)

I've tried fishing in the BWCA over multiple trips but have had zero success :/ and our last trip was way overpopulated :( and it didn't help that a few outfitters were apparently using some camps as "basecamps" and basically setting them up as permanent sites that they just show up and use when they have groups :(

We are getting older and less in shape than our younger days, but mental toughness counts more than physical strength in many cases...

I have heard of the outfitter problem, but never had the displeasure of encountering one of the "basecamps". It would be nice to see a crack down on that practice.