BWCA Capturing Campsites Along Route Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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WonderMonkey
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04/21/2019 07:39PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I know I can download GPX (etc) of all campsites in the BWCA/Quetico and identify which are in a reasonable distance from my route. How do you all capture this list and take it with you? Certainly, I can load it in my gps device but I generally use that as a backup. I COULD mark them all on my map, which is an idea but it does crowd up the map. I COULD put it all in a spreadsheet and keep it in my map case.

I could do all that. I'd rather take some tips from people who have gone before and hear what they do. How do you capture this info so you can use it while on your trip?
 
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04/21/2019 08:05PM  
keep your notes on the back of your map. there is quite a bit of white space available for site notes, trip notes, camp journaling....
 
riverrunner
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04/21/2019 08:22PM  
I use a numbering system with letter designations written on the map by the camp site location.
 
04/21/2019 08:29PM  
What "info" are you looking to have regarding campsites? And why??

I just need location (from my map) and if it is open (visual). After staying at a site, I may make notes on blank paper for a trip report later.
 
04/21/2019 09:13PM  
bobbernumber3: "What "info" are you looking to have regarding campsites? And why??


I just need location (from my map) and if it is open (visual). After staying at a site, I may make notes on blank paper for a trip report later."


Pretty much the same . . .

I may not understand the question, but the campsites (and portages) are on the map. I don't take a GPS. If I need/want a note on a campsite, it's easy to jot down.
 
04/21/2019 10:13PM  
I just use the maps for camp locations in the BWCA and Quetico.
 
04/21/2019 10:15PM  
I just be really old school. I just paddle my route. When I'm ready to camp, I look at my map for nearby sites. If it is open, I check it out and decide if I want to camp there. Of course, the later it gets, the less picky I get.

BTW Soloing gives me a different prespective. Sometimes sites you would not consider for a group are downright attractive for a soloist.
 
04/21/2019 10:20PM  
walllee: "I just use the maps for camp locations in the BWCA and Quetico."

Ditto. I also write the camp rating (1-5) on the dot on the map signifying a site, but I don't count on the rating, it's just gives me an idea of what I might want to look at first. Incidentally, I use McKenzie maps.....
 
04/21/2019 10:27PM  
BTW I don't have a GPS which is ok because I have no clue on how to work one.
 
ozarkpaddler
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04/21/2019 11:29PM  
Bannock: "I just be really old school. I just paddle my route. When I'm ready to camp, I look at my map for nearby sites. If it is open, I check it out and decide if I want to camp there. Of course, the later it gets, the less picky I get.


BTW Soloing gives me a different prespective. Sometimes sites you would not consider for a group are downright attractive for a soloist."


Roger that. I have several old Fisher and MCKenzie maps and the campsites are marked. If I like it and it's time, I'll stay. And if I've been there in the past and I liked a particular campsite it gets a circle around it!

I'm too old to mess with learning GPS now. Besides, I would never allow myself to trust one due to a personal experience. I had a friend with a GPS who swore it was only 15 miles between two landings on the upper Jack's Fork years ago. I argued my case, but I was outnumbered and since "Technology" was on their side.... We got off the river in the dark and had to paddle like heck with no breaks. Yeah, 22 miles and we had put in at 12:30pm. Give me a map and a compass any day!
 
04/22/2019 08:11AM  
You mention .gpx files. Might help if you check out the GPS forum. I've posted links to my files, print my own custom maps using either Delorme Topo 10 and now Garmin Basecamp. This allows printing the info on maps and editing such info.
link to thread with files

butthead

PS: Terry I'm 9 years older. You can always learn something new. In your friends case he did not understand how to use or interpret, substituting straight line distance for the route traveled. bh
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 08:29AM  
butthead: "You mention .gpx files. Might help if you check out the GPS forum. I've posted links to my files, print my own custom maps using either Delorme Topo 10 and now Garmin Basecamp. This allows printing the info on maps and editing such info.
link to thread with files

butthead

PS: Terry I'm 9 years older. You can always learn something new. In your friends case he did not understand how to use or interpret, substituting straight line distance for the route traveled. bh"


Thanks, all.

I have checked out the gps site and did take advantage of the nice work done by others. I appreciate the time and effort. I used to own a Delorme PN-40 and from that I have their mapping software and Garmin Basecamp with my inReach. I wish the Basecamp and inReach communicated, that would be nice. I like your approach, and could also print my own maps and even laminate them to protect them when outside of my map case.

My current maps also show campsites but I was trying to not over-crowd the map with info. I'm a planner and tend to like to have all the information I feel makes the trip "better". I have my GPS but prefer to use my compass and map. I get the feeling it's kind of a badge of honor with some to NOT have a GPS. I have one and love it, though I don't depend on it. The "Come get me button" makes my wife feel good about me being out there and the ability to send my current location to her also gives her a comforting feeling.

I think writing on the map, or printing my own map, will do just fine. I had considered a few sheets with the campsites along my route with rating and lat/long but I don't think having the additional lat/long printed is necessary. I'll have them loaded in my GPS if the need ever arose.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 08:49AM  
On the topic of GPS vs maps....

I have both. They coexist. I use map and compass more than I really need to but I do so out of my desire to keep the skill sharp (as sharp as it is). If I question myself and a decision would cost too much time (or safety), out comes the GPS. I don't hesitate or feel badly for it. However, I don't use because of a lack of skill, but more as a confirmation.

It's a tool in my toolbox of navigation techniques and is used as such.

I don't think it's necessary for people to have a GPS device, far from it. However, I DO feel it's necessary to become competent in map reading and compass skills. It's something I learned in the military and became better at it after some sessions with my brother, who is a civil engineer and a surveyor.
 
04/22/2019 08:49AM  
WonderMonkey, I miss-interpreted what you wanted. You can edit the display info for each waypoint singly or in groups with Topo 10 and Basecamp. Now with Delorme out I use Garmin products. I have discussed the Inreach with Delorme/Garmin developers (info picked up at EAA airhsows), and the Inreach uses a different mapset and file handling format that is application based. I like making custom maps and have laminated them in the past, now I just print them on IGuage Weatherproof 8 mil. A Tyvek based product that works very well.
Ever consider changing the waypoints to geocache's? That allows detailed notes on the GPS.
Not sure if the Inreach works with geocache files.

butthead
 
ozarkpaddler
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04/22/2019 09:37AM  
WonderMonkey: "On the topic of GPS vs maps....
I have both. They coexist. I use map and compass more than I really need to but I do so out of my desire to keep the skill sharp (as sharp as it is). If I question myself and a decision would cost too much time (or safety), out comes the GPS. I don't hesitate or feel badly for it. However, I don't use because of a lack of skill, but more as a confirmation.
It's a tool in my toolbox of navigation techniques and is used as such.
I don't think it's necessary for people to have a GPS device, far from it. However, I DO feel it's necessary to become competent in map reading and compass skills. It's something I learned in the military and became better at it after some sessions with my brother, who is a civil engineer and a surveyor."


Never thought it was "Lack of skill" on your, or any GPS users for their choice. The "Lack of skill" is on MY part when it comes to technology. I'm just old fashioned and one of those "Old dogs" that is not good with learning "New tricks!" (LOL)
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 09:55AM  
butthead: "WonderMonkey, I miss-interpreted what you wanted. You can edit the display info for each waypoint singly or in groups with Topo 10 and Basecamp. Now with Delorme out I use Garmin products. I have discussed the Inreach with Delorme/Garmin developers (info picked up at EAA airhsows), and the Inreach uses a different mapset and file handling format that is application based. I like making custom maps and have laminated them in the past, now I just print them on IGuage Weatherproof 8 mil. A Tyvek based product that works very well.
Ever consider changing the waypoints to geocache's? That allows detailed notes on the GPS.
Not sure if the Inreach works with geocache files.

butthead"


I think you had what I was looking for as I wasn't very specific. Your response answered what I was ultimately looking for, and that's information. Being able to customize and put right on a map a few times takes care of what I enjoy doing. I'm going to look into that paper. I do enough backpacking all over and prepare maps ahead of time so this may be EXACTLY what I'm looking for, and didn't know it.

I had not considered geocache nor did I realize that was a thing. Makes sense though.

I actually use a few applications. Basecamp, which I've never fell in love with, Google Earth, just for fun, and Google Maps for sharing with my friends.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 10:00AM  
ozarkpaddler: "
WonderMonkey: "On the topic of GPS vs maps....
I have both. They coexist. I use map and compass more than I really need to but I do so out of my desire to keep the skill sharp (as sharp as it is). If I question myself and a decision would cost too much time (or safety), out comes the GPS. I don't hesitate or feel badly for it. However, I don't use because of a lack of skill, but more as a confirmation.
It's a tool in my toolbox of navigation techniques and is used as such.
I don't think it's necessary for people to have a GPS device, far from it. However, I DO feel it's necessary to become competent in map reading and compass skills. It's something I learned in the military and became better at it after some sessions with my brother, who is a civil engineer and a surveyor."



Never thought it was "Lack of skill" on your, or any GPS users for their choice. The "Lack of skill" is on MY part when it comes to technology. I'm just old fashioned and one of those "Old dogs" that is not good with learning "New tricks!" (LOL)"


No no.... I didn't take it that way! I was just stating that I use maps to stay sharp. That wasn't commentary on anything other than that I force the use of maps and compasses.

I've done GIS work on the Predator Drone a ways back and from that point I've continued GPS (and trigonometry) as a half-assed hobby.
 
04/22/2019 10:04AM  
I did make the jump to the gps world for places like woodland caribou... but never felt I needed it in the BW. But I too wished I’d had made the plung in BW software. I liked to plan and also liked changing up my game while out there.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 10:23AM  
nctry: "I did make the jump to the gps world for places like woodland caribou... but never felt I needed it in the BW. But I too wished I’d had made the plung in BW software. I liked to plan and also liked changing up my game while out there."


I plan my brains out but as soon as we leave the launch point I'm up for whatever. Leaving the launch point relaxed is a product of me doing my prep. Heck we could change entire lakes and I'd be up for it.

I do my prep in a vacuum and then publish it and say to the group "Hey, here it is if you want to know." and then onward.

For hunting I really pour over the maps as I know whitetail deer use geographic features to travel and lay up. I can only assume caribou are the same way.
 
04/22/2019 11:25AM  
Just as a teaser, you can use commercial paper map and images, transferred to Google Earth and oriented to build a map overlay. Converted it can be used as a .kmz for GPS display and printed out at home.
I do use the GPS more for land navigation and carry as a reference source on paddling trips. Handy to have a library of different maps on an electronic platform. I have a selection of NOAA Harbor charts, USGS Quads, color sat imagery, lake contours, and overlays on my 62st.

butthead
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 11:45AM  
butthead: "Just as a teaser, you can use commercial paper map and images, transferred to Google Earth and oriented to build a map overlay. Converted it can be used as a .kmz for GPS display and printed out at home.
I do use the GPS more for land navigation and carry as a reference source on paddling trips. Handy to have a library of different maps on an electronic platform. I have a selection of NOAA Harbor charts, USGS Quads, color sat imagery, lake contours, and overlays on my 62st.

butthead"


Thanks. I have imported overlays into GE for that purpose before. It's a craft to skew the imported image to match the GE images. I can usually get close enough for my purposes.

I'm resisting using my brother's large printer to create a map and cover my entire wall. He has one of the ones that has a roll of paper so I could just go nuts. Naturally, I'd use all of his ink and not offer to pay for any of it.
 
04/22/2019 12:04PM  
WonderMonkey
I'm resisting using my brother's large printer to create a map and cover my entire wall. He has one of the ones that has a roll of paper so I could just go nuts. Naturally, I'd use all of his ink and not offer to pay for any of it."


I find myself hoping that this was said in jest; printer ink is expensive! I think I am glad that I am not your sibling! :-) (I have a large printer, too.)
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 03:29PM  
Spartan2: "
WonderMonkey
I'm resisting using my brother's large printer to create a map and cover my entire wall. He has one of the ones that has a roll of paper so I could just go nuts. Naturally, I'd use all of his ink and not offer to pay for any of it."


I find myself hoping that this was said in jest; printer ink is expensive! I think I am glad that I am not your sibling! :-) (I have a large printer, too.)"


Yes, just kidding. I've had large print format under my budget and it was out of control when I arrived. I had everybody's access removed and added them back in one by one as it was shown there was a need. When it came time to replace the printer it was actually cheaper to either do a "pay by print" deal with a vendor or go to a local Kinko's, FedEx, etc. We ended up using a "Pay By Print" approach.
 
04/22/2019 08:05PM  
Bannock: "I just be really old school. I just paddle my route. When I'm ready to camp, I look at my map for nearby sites. If it is open, I check it out and decide if I want to camp there. Of course, the later it gets, the less picky I get.


BTW Soloing gives me a different prespective. Sometimes sites you would not consider for a group are downright attractive for a soloist."


Since my first trip in 1973 I have always used Bannocks system. But then my last peak time trip was July 1999. Otherwise all trips since then have been late May-early June or September-October which suits me just fine.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 08:39PM  
Bannock: "I just be really old school. I just paddle my route. When I'm ready to camp, I look at my map for nearby sites. If it is open, I check it out and decide if I want to camp there. Of course, the later it gets, the less picky I get.

BTW Soloing gives me a different prespective. Sometimes sites you would not consider for a group are downright attractive for a soloist."


I plan on doing some solo trips next year and will do more of what you are doing. When I have a group I feel a bit more responsible and will have things laid out. However, if we don't adhere to what I have figured out it's no big deal at all and I'm up for it.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/22/2019 08:41PM  
deerfoot: "
Bannock: "I just be really old school. I just paddle my route. When I'm ready to camp, I look at my map for nearby sites. If it is open, I check it out and decide if I want to camp there. Of course, the later it gets, the less picky I get.

BTW Soloing gives me a different prespective. Sometimes sites you would not consider for a group are downright attractive for a soloist."


Since my first trip in 1973 I have always used Bannocks system. But then my last peak time trip was July 1999. Otherwise all trips since then have been late May-early June or September-October which suits me just fine."


Our trip this year is the first week of September. Just after peak so hopefully we will have a selection of sites.
 
04/23/2019 12:19PM  
unshavenman: "
walllee: "I just use the maps for camp locations in the BWCA and Quetico."

Ditto. I also write the camp rating (1-5) on the dot on the map signifying a site, but I don't count on the rating, it's just gives me an idea of what I might want to look at first. Incidentally, I use McKenzie maps....."


This is something I started doing with the 1-5 on the dot. I usually print a blown up map of the lakes we are staying on, on standard printer paper. That way we have a larger image of the lake, depth, and campsites. It might be 2 different maps for campsites/portages and depth, but having it blown up on disposable paper works great for me. I can have notes, mark where we catch fish, and generally just not care if they get ruined. I do have other maps too, but fishing maps are really nice to have too.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/23/2019 12:28PM  
unshavenman: "
walllee: "I just use the maps for camp locations in the BWCA and Quetico."

Ditto. I also write the camp rating (1-5) on the dot on the map signifying a site, but I don't count on the rating, it's just gives me an idea of what I might want to look at first. Incidentally, I use McKenzie maps....."


I'd do the same. Just a guide. If I have to choose between A and B, I'd prefer to have a bit of info to help make that choice. Can't use it as the gospel, but it's good to have information.
 
04/23/2019 06:45PM  
Wow! I thought I was a geek with planning details. But I just re-read this thread and still don't get what information you want to know about campsites ahead of time and why?

Are you looking for making your own notes after staying at a site? Or are you looking for advance information to help you select a site? Or are you looking at technology for note keeping?

Once you know where a campsite is and then find that it is available, don't you look around and make a pass/fail decision? Then if you stay, make some notes (mental or otherwise) in case you return to this area. All the advance, pre-notes ahead of time are pretty worthless If a site is occupied.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/23/2019 11:22PM  
bobbernumber3: "Wow! I thought I was a geek with planning details. But I just re-read this thread and still don't get what information you want to know about campsites ahead of time and why?

Are you looking for making your own notes after staying at a site? Or are you looking for advance information to help you select a site? Or are you looking at technology for note keeping?

Once you know where a campsite is and then find that it is available, don't you look around and make a pass/fail decision? Then if you stay, make some notes (mental or otherwise) in case you return to this area. All the advance, pre-notes ahead of time are pretty worthless If a site is occupied."


Help make a decision before we arrive. At times there are many campsites on a lake. Can't (or don't want to) go visit each and every one of them to then choose. If I could narrow down from 10 sites to a few then go visit those, then that's worth it.

I'll keep my personal notes for future use and for pitching in on this site.

Generally, I prepare before I hit the water then once we leave it's much more free flowing.

So ... it's just a way to help narrow the field.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/23/2019 11:36PM  
A little commentary on all this.

Have you ever been lost, or thought you were, out where it would really be painful to not know where you are? I have.

I'm normally a preparer. This time I decided to let that go and not be so prepared. I generally lead my groups and people look to me when something needs decided. This one time it rained more than anticipated and we had to pull over and put our kayaks on the bank and walk out. I did not have my maps or GPS or anything. I just generally knew where to go. While the group was walking it SEEMED like it was taking much longer than needed to get to our take-out point. I knew we still had a ways to go but I could not verify it.

We walked for several hours. Panic set in with the group and some wanted to take shortcuts, the kind that could either save you hours or bring a LARGE risk. I had to get tough with a few people and let them know I was staying the course and we should all stick together and blah blah blah.

We were hours overdue. Wives were getting antsy. No cell phone reception, of course. Many didn't have the proper shoes for hiking.

Eventually we got to where we were going and all was well. However I had to rely on my gut feeling and my prior (before leaving the house) study of maps, but I COULD NOT VERIFY with anything because for THAT ONE TIME I decided to not prepare so much.

That won't happen again. I will make sure I have a reasonable set of data to help make choices. This data won't rule my trip, but I'll leave my house well prepared. As soon as the paddle touches the water it will just be tools in my tool box, waiting to be used if needed. Maps, compass, GPS as a backup, etc.
 
mjmkjun
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04/24/2019 06:36AM  
In light of that experience, I see why you feel the need to thoroughly research everything as much as possible on the planned route then allow some flexibility. If I understand correctly, you memorize your route w/details as THE #1 priority. I assume you are normally the group leader.

Panic is what frequently happens to those disoriented but it's the most disabling cuz it messes with rational thinking and common sense.

quote, "I did not have my maps or GPS or anything."
ouch! Bad Monkey! ;-)
 
04/24/2019 06:49AM  
I generally do very similar to narrow down campsite choices. It's not that critical for my needs as a solo or tandem pair and my criteria don't have the same priorities. My experience and view . . .

The campsite reviews are as much subjective as objective. I often note that one is either a 2-star or 4-star . . . ? Has either 2 or 4 tent pads . . . ? Three of which are good . . . ? Has a good landing or bad landing . . . ? And so on and so forth.

Besides how you would rank the priorities, it depends on the reviewer, the year, the season, the month, the day, the weather, the size of group, tents/hammocks?, and other preferences, so I take them with a grain of salt. I'm sure you have probably noticed some of this already.

I don't say this to discourage you from doing that planning, which is more important if leading a larger group, especially less experienced ones.

 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 08:49AM  
mjmkjun: "In light of that experience, I see why you feel the need to thoroughly research everything as much as possible on the planned route then allow some flexibility. If I understand correctly, you memorize your route w/details as THE #1 priority. I assume you are normally the group leader.
Panic is what frequently happens to those disoriented but it's the most disabling cuz it messes with rational thinking and common sense.

quote, "I did not have my maps or GPS or anything."
ouch! Bad Monkey! ;-) "


I generally study the route and have in my mind what it is but I usually have whatever maps are needed, a compass, and sometimes a GPS backup. The GPS backup just depends on what I'm doing or where I am going.

And yes, terrible of me to not take those things on such a trip. I was trying to "let go" and not put some much time and effort into preparing. Whoops!

In addition to feeling I need to do such things, I also enjoy it. It appeals to my nature. I am in Data & Analytics by trade, and part of my enjoyment is preparing for upcoming adventures.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 08:52AM  
boonie: "I generally do very similar to narrow down campsite choices. It's not that critical for my needs as a solo or tandem pair and my criteria don't have the same priorities. My experience and view . . .

The campsite reviews are as much subjective as objective. I often note that one is either a 2-star or 4-star . . . ? Has either 2 or 4 tent pads . . . ? Three of which are good . . . ? Has a good landing or bad landing . . . ? And so on and so forth.

Besides how you would rank the priorities, it depends on the reviewer, the year, the season, the month, the day, the weather, the size of group, tents/hammocks?, and other preferences, so I take them with a grain of salt. I'm sure you have probably noticed some of this already.

I don't say this to discourage you from doing that planning, which is more important if leading a larger group, especially less experienced ones.

"


I would agree, solo trips are less of a deal because it's just me, and more sites would "work".

Like you mentioned, ranking the priorities are a bit subjective, but if there are a bunch of sites, I would have to do something. However, right now I have my first choices and those are ones that were suggested by the outfitter, a few people in chat, etc. Personal recommendations based on the size of my group (six) and time of year.

As we go to the main site there are a few along the way on the same lake that we will check out. Since we are generally staying two nights at the first lake, after 1.5 days of travel, one of the things my main outdoors buddy and will do is to explore the lake and campsites that we find.

And yes, I'm normally leading the group, though I don't necessarily desire to do so. We are "kindo" going along with a fella (friend of BIL) that has gone before but his amount of preperation for his former group is for them to drive to Ely and figure it all out on Saturday before leaving on Sunday. As it turns out there was another person in the group that actually did all the prep and he just didn't pay much attention. He thought it all just worked out, and I suppose he was right!

Next year, when it officially becomes my trip, I'll REQUIRE that everyone have a map and compass, and know how to use it. If you don't, you are not going. I'll help with making sure that everyone has the basics for food and shelter but that is more just to make sure you have the opportunity to know what should be taken. The map and compass isn't optional.
 
04/24/2019 09:12AM  
riverrunner: "I use a numbering system with letter designations written on the map by the camp site location."


+1. Same for me. Takes barely any space next to the campsite dot on the map and I can look down at it quickly while I'm paddling and not even break stride if a site is taken I was headed for.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 09:14AM  
djwillco: "
riverrunner: "I use a numbering system with letter designations written on the map by the camp site location."


+1. Same for me. Takes barely any space next to the campsite dot on the map and I can look down at it quickly while I'm paddling and not even break stride if a site is taken I was headed for."


I will probably do the same. Seems compact and useful.
 
04/24/2019 09:23AM  
I agree with the narrowing of options mentality. Some of these lakes are huge, and I don't want to search across the whole lake looking for a site. I like to know where I'm going because I'm used to dealing with indecisive people. As in here is the first choice, if that's taken then #2 and #3 are here and here. I don't want to stop in the middle of the lake or at a portage to try to figure things out. We might adjust our plans according to the weather, as in shorter paddles or if the wind is too strong from a certain direction, but at least we started with a plan and the adjustments aren't because of anyone lacking a decisive opinion.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 09:28AM  
mjmkjun: Panic is what frequently happens to those disoriented but it's the most disabling cuz it messes with rational thinking and common sense.
"


Additionally, I think panic comes from new and unusual situations and you have not done anything to help your mind calm down. I'd say many people here don't freak out when something goes wrong on your trips because you have taken these trips before. Things not going quite right isn't unusual so it's part of the trip. Take someone who hasn't done anything near what these trips are and they may panic a bit. Maybe they have lived a fairly narrow life and suddenly they are way outside of their comfort zone? Or maybe none of that and some people just panic?

I like to observe myself in situations to see how I reacted. Improving myself when under stress is helped by observing others. It doesn't take having been in the military and involved in chaos to stay calmer, but that time and training sure helps. Have to put the kayaks way up on the bank and hike out? OK, no problem, why panic if there is no option? The river heads that way, so let's go!
 
04/24/2019 10:15AM  
You seem to be a very well planned canoe tripper. I am curious regarding your spare equipment, reserve meals, medical kit, and backup supplies....

I have a traveling partner who brings "extras" and calls them "the back-up to the back-up". (Three packets of five bandaids, 8' rope, 25' rope, 50' rope, etc.) If you ask for a nail his reply is "eight penny?" followed by "do you want the hammer also?" We finally got him to stop bringing nails, but I don't know about the hammer.
 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 10:24AM  
bobbernumber3: "You seem to be a very well planned canoe tripper. I am curious regarding your spare equipment, reserve meals, medical kit, and backup supplies....

I have a traveling partner who brings "extras" and calls them "the back-up to the back-up". (Three packets of five bandaids, 8' rope, 25' rope, 50' rope, etc.) If you ask for a nail his reply is "eight penny?" followed by "do you want the hammer also?" We finally got him to stop bringing nails, but I don't know about the hammer."


I have some spares but it's just for things that would really be painful if the primary failed. I'll lay out a few of them off the top of my head.

Fire starting: Lighter, Firesteel, quick start tinder.
I'll use the lighter primarily but will use the firesteel a few times to keep in practice. I'll use my pre-prepared quick start tinder only if needed, otherwise I'll use whatever is laying around. On that note I do collect tinder as part of my day. When packbacking I have a pouch on my pack waist belt and as I come across tinder I'll collect it.

Cordage: # 36 Tarred Twisted Bank Line. I used to use paracord but once I realized how it became the standard it made sense why people advised it so much. I listened to some other people who advised tarred bank line and made the switch. It can be untwisted to give three #12 strands which work very well. I bring a hank of this and how much depends on what I'm doing and for how long. Generally, I'll bring one long length and cut off what is needed. If it so happens I have a long length already I'll throw it in there and try to use it first. I also bring a sailcloth needle to use in conjunction with the #12 strands for repairs. A sailcloth needle can handle repairs to boots, etc. and smaller stuff.

Medical: For week long trips I use an Adventure Medical Kits Ultralight & Watertight .5. For shorter trips I use the .3 version. This is my base and I take a few things extra. I take some 800 mg ibuprophen, sutures and needles for wounds, anti-bacterial wipes in single pouches, and a very small syringe. A small syringe is good for forcing fluid into wounds to clean them out. Also if we are on a fishing trip I make sure something has a wire cutter on it to help with hooks that find their way into flesh.

Meals: I take three meals per day plus some spare meal bars, snacks, etc. There are times I only eat two meals if I'm base camping, or we eat fish we catch. Taking three meals per day leaves me with some leftover and I use those as my "extra". I don't use many bought meals (though I have before) and choose to make my own. I'm not against the Camp Chows, Packit Gourmet, etc. but I just like to make my own.

Cutting/chopping: I have a fixed blade knife, a camp axe, and a folding saw. Additionally, I have a Havalon Piranta-EDGE knife which uses replacable 60 XT scapels as the blade. The Havalon is there for medical purposes but I do use it for other things. I start with a fresh blade and take one spare blade.

Navigation: Maps of the area I'm going plus an overview map of the larger region. Compass. Garmin inReach GPS as a backup. Even on short trips, I take the GPS as it allows me to send messages to my wife to let her know I've left the parking place, arrived at camp, or even send up breadcrumb tracks if I choose to. Usually, I leave it turned off and just turn it on to send the satellite texts.

Power: For a week long trip I start out fully charged (fresh batteries, etc) and take a spare set of batteries. My GPS and phone get charged from my battery brick I take plus a Goal Zero Nomad 7" solar panel. I almost never have to use the solar panel as I rarely use my GPS or phone. I could PROBABLY get by with just the battery brick but I force myself to take the solar panel. For short weekend trips I leave it at home.

Hammer/Nails: I don't take things like that. As I mentioned MOST of my extra stuff is for emergency or survival, and I hope to not to HAVE to use it.

Since I'm first and foremost a backpacker, I'm conscious of weight. I'm not a gram-weenie but I don't like to have a massive pack when I'm on a trail. Because of that I feel that most of my "extras" are for survival or emergencies. I could certainly do with just the saw or camp axe, but that's one thing extra I bring for convenience. As I was able to get back out and be outdoors a handful of years ago, I took a notepad with me and wrote down when I used something. When I got back home I'd go over it. After a few trips if I didn't use something I didn't take it, unless it was on the list for "emergency".

Sounds like a bunch, doesn't it? For backpacking I have a 55 L pack for Summer and a 70 L pack for Winter and am able to get it all in there. Again I leave some things behind for backpacking versus canoe/kayaking, but not much. For my Quetico trip my main outdoors buddy and I (same canoe) will have three total packs. A 70 L each and a 55 L for our combined food and some of the group's gear. We will also have a small seat or thwart pouch for things we want easily available which does count for storage.

Something I watch on youtube and read about is someone's total gear list for various kinds of trips. It gives me ideas of what to take and what to leave behind. What do you do as far as "extra" that may be different from mine?
 
04/24/2019 11:46AM  
After 40+ trip mostly to Q, our spares/extras have fallen off the packing list as non-essential. Early on, we were pretty heavy with emergency, extra, just-in-case. Now we just overpack in the area of luxury items.

Firestarting: Bic lighters and a few homemade fire starters made from wax.

Rope/cordage: No extra. Canoes have painters, tarps and tents have tie-offs. Scrounge something not used if needed.

Medical: Bandaids and pain reliever.

Meals: Two per day. Used to be three and a backup of spaghetti. We still seem to carry in more than Is needed. I do the planning and cooking and we eat very well. Cast iron frying pan and cooking oil (lots).

Knives and cutting: Fillet knife and cooking knife. Each guy has a leatherman with a blade and probable extra small pocket knives. Folding bow saw. No axe as this was a hazard with kids chopping and splitting.

Navigation: Compass and map. Rarely used except at camp when planning future trips. We are on the same lake each year. No spare paddle.

Power: Batteries for locators. Each canoe has a locator with fresh batteries. One set of 8AA spare for the group.

Fishing: Two rods per person. Couple small tackle boxes. No nets. No rod storage tubes. Locators.

Entertainment: One camp chair each. One quart whiskey per person. Tobacco. Wine for dinner, several liters boxed. This is where all our extra weight and bulk occurs.

Our serious spares are very minimal. Our entertainment spares are excessive. We plan on having a good time and don't plan on emergencies(?)



 
WonderMonkey
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04/24/2019 01:01PM  
I do take other items such as a small camp chair, etc. but my post was more for those things I figured were in the loose "essential" category.

If I went to the same lake each time and didn't have to do a bunch of travel to get there, I may take a smaller set of maps but would still take them. This habit was forged in what I did while in the Military and it just feels comfortable to me. Of course, the one time I DIDN'T do it was a time when it was needed.

We do take various forms of beverages. If we are hiking in then we will probably take a platypus full of some whiskey and maybe even a few beers if we aren't going far. Throw those in a stream and you have a nice cool beverage with dinner.

I've considered taken less meals as we always end up with more than we need and with fish we end up with even more. This is my first flatwater canoe trip so I'm sure I will learn a bit from this trip. When I go solo next year I'm sure I'll back off the food as I'll do even more base camping than this year.

A few of my things are for the consideration of the group. When I backpack I go with my outdoors buddy and all we do is a quick "You taking this and that?" the week before and it works. With a larger group, I'm not as in tune.

I do consider the rope in my canoe as part of my kit. I use amsteel as it floats and you could pull a tractor with it, but I have extra on there for "whatever" usage.

Fillet knife, forgot about that.

As I base camp more, my luxury items will go up. I go do minimalistic outings with my brother, where we don't take food outside of seasonings and catch everything we eat (fish, rabbit, squirrel), but I also enjoy relaxing in camp with all my "stuff".
 
04/24/2019 03:22PM  
WonderMonkey: "...but I also enjoy relaxing in camp with all my "stuff"."


I think that sums up our group very well! No. Exactly!
 
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