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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Gear Forum Waterproof or traditional bag with liner? |
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05/10/2019 10:03AM (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Hello,
I am looking to buy a large pack bag and debating the best way to go. There are some decent prices on the sealine 115 liter and granite gear portage pack #4 100 liter.
I think both sizes would be sufficient for my needs. The sealine is approx. 50.00 more.
I appreciate any input and why you would choose one over the other? THx.
I am looking to buy a large pack bag and debating the best way to go. There are some decent prices on the sealine 115 liter and granite gear portage pack #4 100 liter.
I think both sizes would be sufficient for my needs. The sealine is approx. 50.00 more.
I appreciate any input and why you would choose one over the other? THx.
05/10/2019 10:28AM
Disclaimer: My answer comes from me alone and does not represent an official opinion by BWCA.com.
You'll get several different answers, but our group made the decision years ago to buy Cooke Custom Sewing Pioneer packs.
Feature for feature, we think they're the best choice. The zippered pouch on the flap is a big part of that, but the shoulder straps, waist belt, extra padding and extra grab loops make it stand out, in our opinion.
We line the Pioneer Packs with these 42 gallon contractor clean-up bags. The pack has a tough exterior and the 3 mil plastic liner is also tough and keeps everything dry.
There are a lot of very good packs out there - Granite Gear and Kondos have nice products - and you should look at them and compare before buying.
Two CCS Pioneer packs on an 8-day canoe trip
You'll get several different answers, but our group made the decision years ago to buy Cooke Custom Sewing Pioneer packs.
Feature for feature, we think they're the best choice. The zippered pouch on the flap is a big part of that, but the shoulder straps, waist belt, extra padding and extra grab loops make it stand out, in our opinion.
We line the Pioneer Packs with these 42 gallon contractor clean-up bags. The pack has a tough exterior and the 3 mil plastic liner is also tough and keeps everything dry.
There are a lot of very good packs out there - Granite Gear and Kondos have nice products - and you should look at them and compare before buying.
Two CCS Pioneer packs on an 8-day canoe trip
"Keep close to Nature's heart, yourself; and break clear away, once in a while, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean." ~ John Muir
05/10/2019 11:47AM
I have some inexpensive Seattle Sports H2Zero roll top backpacks that we put "things that shouldn't get wet" into. Other things which can get damp like the tent, or if there's a 20-30L dry bag, go into a traditional pack which is unlined.
When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known. - Sigurd F. Olson, "The Singing Wilderness"
05/10/2019 11:58AM
I recently did exactly what Jackfish said and have zero regrets. The thing that I like about this over a waterproof bag is that the liner is replaceable. If anything ever happens like it getting poked through, or a hot ember melting a hole, then your waterproofing isn't compromised. Even the regular wear and tear of taking the pack in and out of the canoe and setting it on rocks would wear away the waterproofing.
Having the liner means that I can have a tough pack that gets used and still never worry about the waterproofing failing over time. I just toss the old one and throw in a brand new contractor bag.
CCS Pioneer packs are the best though. I am thrilled with mine.
Having the liner means that I can have a tough pack that gets used and still never worry about the waterproofing failing over time. I just toss the old one and throw in a brand new contractor bag.
CCS Pioneer packs are the best though. I am thrilled with mine.
05/10/2019 12:13PM
I've never used either a waterproof pack or a liner. I make sure everything inside the pack is in a waterproof bag, and really important things are in an individual ziplock or similar inside the waterproof bag. I do that backpacking and paddling alike. Maybe I've been lucky but it's always worked well, even when a portage pack gets set in the lake on accident, or a hard storm hits.
For paddling I use a CSS Guide and/or Pioneer.
For paddling I use a CSS Guide and/or Pioneer.
05/10/2019 01:44PM
I sometimes use a waterproof roll top bag for safeguarding my camera equipment and maybe carrying a few day items. Before I switched to a barrel I used a waterproof bag as a food bag for hanging as I felt it would be best at restricting food smells. All gear goes in a traditional pack with liners.
05/10/2019 05:21PM
I have only Duluth packs used mostly with plastic liners but have switched to fabric liners made by Ostrom (no longer available). My brother and his son have used large Sealine dry bags with great results. Their Sealine bags are probably 15 or more years old and have held up very well with no leaks. I am impressed by them. If I didn't already have 5 Duluth packs I would go with Sealine.
05/10/2019 07:02PM
I have both a CCS Pioneer and a SealLine 115Pro. I really like having both, but if I had to choose one, I'd go with the CCS Pioneer. I use a liner, but I also put my sleeping bag and clothes in a separate waterpoof compression bag.
05/11/2019 12:09AM
Definitely pros and cons to both. We love the Sealine pros, as they seem pretty indestructible and definitely keep water out. Just be sure you get the pros, with all of the padding, waist and sternum belts, load lifters,etc. The cheaper sealines are much less comfortable to carry. For me, a pack liner usually ends up with a hole or all buched up and in the way. We only use one Sealine and all water sensitive gear goes in there. Otherwise I like the Kondos Outfitter Special and CCS Pioneer. I also like the Kondos 3 external pocket packs, there are 3 sizes, as day packs. CCS has similar daypacks.
So many fish,so little time
05/11/2019 05:33AM
I began as set up by outfitter - Kondos #3 and the heavy 6 mil liners. I added a Pioneer and a CCS deluxe food pack. When we dumped in white caps one October in middle of Sunday Lake (Q) everything was perfectly dry after 45-60 minutes getting to shore. I'm pretty sure I'll stick with this system.
05/11/2019 07:33AM
I started scouting ebay for Sealline bags in January the year before, and was able to snag four three nice 115L for my family ranging in price from $25-$60. I bought a new 70L for my daughter in the $60 range and a knock-off but well-reviewed 40L for our youngest for $30. Especially traveling with kids, it is nice to not have to worry about liners for everyone, and the bags are really tough. We only use them once or twice a year, I'm not too worried about wear and tear.
05/11/2019 07:44AM
unshavenman: "As Jackfish states, look at the CCS Hybrid packs, especially the Pioneer Pack. It's the bomb. I personally use a 70L Sea To Summit Pack Liner to keep things dry. It fits perfectly."
My favorite solution as well. My sleeping bag/quilt and clothes go into a waterproof compression sack inside the liner for additional protection. I use the Sea to Summit e-vent compression sacks.
05/11/2019 08:57AM
TipsyPaddler: "unshavenman: "As Jackfish states, look at the CCS Hybrid packs, especially the Pioneer Pack. It's the bomb. I personally use a 70L Sea To Summit Pack Liner to keep things dry. It fits perfectly."
My favorite solution as well. My sleeping bag/quilt and clothes go into a waterproof compression sack inside the liner for additional protection. I use the Sea to Summit e-vent compression sacks."
Yep, my hammock underquilt, top quilt, clothing, etc. go into separate sil-nylon dry sacks as well. You can never have too much protection.....
Endeavor to persevere.
05/11/2019 03:46PM
Traditional bag with liner. I now use a CCS Hybrid Guide, their big one.
First few trips I had a Cabelas large Boundary Waters bag, similar to the Sealline. Not a bad pack I thought. All the soft stuff went in it...tent, sleeping bags, clothes, tarp, etc. We took two solo canoes and two packs, the other was a barrel pack for food and kitchen stuff. I thought it was all fine, we used it two or three years, but I never actually carried it. I portaged the canoes and my daughter did the packs. One fall I went with a friend and brought the BW bag. It was absolutely horrible. It sucked. It was the most uncomfortable bag ever...yet my daughter was so tough she never complained. I replaced it with the CCS Guide bag and oh my, it was SO much better. Much wider shoulder straps, a sternum strap, a hip belt, a padded back. There is no going back to the BW bag. I thought I wouldn't like the liners and traditional pack, and was pretty proud of the BW bag. In fact, I just couldn't understand WHY anybody would want to use a pack with a plastic liner. Recommended by Cliff in his books...I just didn't understand. I do now.
First few trips I had a Cabelas large Boundary Waters bag, similar to the Sealline. Not a bad pack I thought. All the soft stuff went in it...tent, sleeping bags, clothes, tarp, etc. We took two solo canoes and two packs, the other was a barrel pack for food and kitchen stuff. I thought it was all fine, we used it two or three years, but I never actually carried it. I portaged the canoes and my daughter did the packs. One fall I went with a friend and brought the BW bag. It was absolutely horrible. It sucked. It was the most uncomfortable bag ever...yet my daughter was so tough she never complained. I replaced it with the CCS Guide bag and oh my, it was SO much better. Much wider shoulder straps, a sternum strap, a hip belt, a padded back. There is no going back to the BW bag. I thought I wouldn't like the liners and traditional pack, and was pretty proud of the BW bag. In fact, I just couldn't understand WHY anybody would want to use a pack with a plastic liner. Recommended by Cliff in his books...I just didn't understand. I do now.
05/13/2019 12:45PM
I use the Duluth Pack #4 and Camp Kitchen pack with liners and have no issues over 15+ trips to Quetico. They've taken a beating and hold their own. I use the Sealine 35 liter Portage dry bag pack in the bow of the canoe, for tackle boxes, rain gear, etc.. Having said that, I need another pack for a larger group this year and am seriously considering the CCS Pioneer or Guide pack, to try something different with little risk, since the CCS packs have a very good reputation.
"How hard can it be? It's just 320 rods."
05/13/2019 03:53PM
I like traditional (well modern traditional) with liner. CCS and Kondos outfitter special are the way to go. Liners are not water proof, more like water infiltration delay. I'm a big fan of the sea to summit dry sacks and waterproof compression sacks for packing things you want to remain dry. Use the old style sealine dry bags (20L/30L) for food.
Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody’s going to die.
05/13/2019 05:46PM
Get one hole in your “waterproof” bag and you are back where you started, except the bag is still heavier and less practical.
CCS or Granite Gear all the way. I chose CCS for the more durable materials.
Double bonus is that when you get to camp you can use the heavy duty trash bags to keep other things dry. I put my packs in them at night in case the rain is really bad and gets under the tarp.
CCS or Granite Gear all the way. I chose CCS for the more durable materials.
Double bonus is that when you get to camp you can use the heavy duty trash bags to keep other things dry. I put my packs in them at night in case the rain is really bad and gets under the tarp.
05/13/2019 08:15PM
I use waterproof packs, but only because I can borrow them for free from work.
They're great in that you don't have to worry about rain or water in the bottom of the boat from wet footing or wet dogs, but I find them a little annoying to pack and even more so to unpack. My daughter is only 5' tall, and she practically has to dump her back out to get at anything bear the bottom of the pack. If I were going to buy a pack, I think I would go with a traditional pack. I really like the looks of the CCS hybrids.
They're great in that you don't have to worry about rain or water in the bottom of the boat from wet footing or wet dogs, but I find them a little annoying to pack and even more so to unpack. My daughter is only 5' tall, and she practically has to dump her back out to get at anything bear the bottom of the pack. If I were going to buy a pack, I think I would go with a traditional pack. I really like the looks of the CCS hybrids.
05/14/2019 01:18AM
RTurner: "I use waterproof packs, but only because I can borrow them for free from work.
They're great in that you don't have to worry about rain or water in the bottom of the boat from wet footing or wet dogs, but I find them a little annoying to pack and even more so to unpack. My daughter is only 5' tall, and she practically has to dump her back out to get at anything bear the bottom of the pack. If I were going to buy a pack, I think I would go with a traditional pack. I really like the looks of the CCS hybrids."
+1
I have half a dozen 115L Sealines. We love them. They have held up very well over the years. I give one to each couple in our group, and they put their bags, pads, and clothes in them, so we know at the very least, that will stay dry.
Having said that, I echo Rturners comment. The bags are very tall. Fully loaded, they may not fit either direction in your canoe, and they are a pain in the butt to access something in the bottom. We too have used them for our dry food pack, and you do basically have to dump it on the ground, every time you want to find something.
I would keep your eyes open on local craiglist, or facebook market place, and pick up a good GG or CCS pack for half or less of new.
Note, a few of my sealines don't have the sternum strap. it really makes a big difference. It keeps the pressure off the inside of your shoulder blades. Without it, a heavy bag cuts off the circulation to your fingers, and makes your arms kinda go numb. I just added straps of my own.
05/14/2019 06:41AM
sylvesterii: "Get one hole in your “waterproof” bag and you are back where you started, except the bag is still heavier and less practical."
Duct tape--it's really not an issue. Seam Grip for permanent patches when you get home. Dry bags are sturdy. You've never put a hole in your plastic bag liner in your portage pack???
05/14/2019 07:21AM
MReid: "sylvesterii: "Get one hole in your “waterproof” bag and you are back where you started, except the bag is still heavier and less practical."
Duct tape - it's really not an issue. Seam Grip for permanent patches when you get home. Dry bags are sturdy. You've never put a hole in your plastic bag liner in your portage pack???"
If you put a hole in the liner, then you just swap out the liner. That's what's nice about them, there is no need to patch them. It only bothers you for that one trip then you toss it when you get home. Some people even bring extra liners with them because they can be used for other things like stashing gear in at night to keep it dry.
05/14/2019 07:29AM
No matter what Mother nature has thrown my way, I start with dry gear!
I use SealLine dry bags, one has been used every year since I bought it new in 1987. I have several of these in varying sizes and the only problem I've ever experienced was one broken buckle (knock-on-wood).
I use SealLine dry bags, one has been used every year since I bought it new in 1987. I have several of these in varying sizes and the only problem I've ever experienced was one broken buckle (knock-on-wood).
05/14/2019 08:34AM
A1t2o: " If you put a hole in the liner, then you just swap out the liner. That's what's nice about them, there is no need to patch them. It only bothers you for that one trip then you toss it when you get home. Some people even bring extra liners with them because they can be used for other things like stashing gear in at night to keep it dry."
Or use duct tape to patch the hole. See where I'm heading?
05/14/2019 08:37AM
MReid: "A1t2o: " If you put a hole in the liner, then you just swap out the liner. That's what's nice about them, there is no need to patch them. It only bothers you for that one trip then you toss it when you get home. Some people even bring extra liners with them because they can be used for other things like stashing gear in at night to keep it dry."
Or use duct tape to patch the hole. See where I'm heading?"
+1 - This is exactly what I do. It has worked just fine as long I use the heavy 6mil bags.
05/14/2019 01:54PM
RTurner: "And if you get a hole in your duct tape, you could always patch it with... duct tape! "
One of the best camping tips I've ever seen on this board! Awesome! :)
"Keep close to Nature's heart, yourself; and break clear away, once in a while, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean." ~ John Muir
05/16/2019 04:54AM
unshavenman: "TipsyPaddler: "unshavenman: "As Jackfish states, look at the CCS Hybrid packs, especially the Pioneer Pack. It's the bomb. I personally use a 70L Sea To Summit Pack Liner to keep things dry. It fits perfectly."
My favorite solution as well. My sleeping bag/quilt and clothes go into a waterproof compression sack inside the liner for additional protection. I use the Sea to Summit e-vent compression sacks."
Yep, my hammock underquilt, top quilt, clothing, etc. go into separate sil-nylon dry sacks as well. You can never have too much protection....."
Another vote for traditional packs with plastic liner and extra waterproof stuff sack protection for sleep system and clothing.
I use a CCS Explorer and CCS Rucksack as my main go-to bags for my solo trips. The CCS Pioneer and assorted Granite Gear packs come out for family trips.
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