I’m getting a new portage pack for this year and and have decided on a CCS hybrid pack, but I’m torn between a Guide and a Pioneer. It’ll be replacing a #4 Duluth Pack, and I typically trip with a group of four (and I typically outfit the group). What are your opinions on whether a Guide or a Pioneer is a preferable replacement?

The Guide pack is absolutely huge. At 5'9" and 180 lbs. I personally find the Pioneer pack to be much more manageable. I also outfit my group and it's my go-to. Keep in mind that the bigger the pack, the more stuff you are likely to put in it......

If what you have is a true Duluth Pack #4 rather than, say, a Granite Gear #4 or a Kondos #4, then the Pioneer will be much closer in volume to your original pack.

The Guide is a huge pack. However, if you are hauling gear for four people it might be just what you need. I found that with 2 adults and 2 little kids, the Guide was perfect. With just 2 adults, the Pioneer was better suited. The Guide has 5700 cu. in. and the Pioneer is 4700 cu. in.

Ausable: "If what you have is a true Duluth Pack #4 rather than, say, a Granite Gear #4 or a Kondos #4, then the Pioneer will be much closer in volume to your original pack."

It’s replacing a true #4 Duluth Pack - which is huge and not at all fun to carry.

I have a Guide and recommend it. If you have too much room, you just cinch down the side straps and tighten the top flap pocket more, and it shrinks down a LOT and very well. Better too big than too small. We carry all our "soft" stuff in it: tent, tarp, 2 sleeping bags, clothes, raingear, camp shoes, 2 crazy creek chairs, and a Bob Dustrude saw and Purcell trench grill, and some other odds and ends like books, hammock, etc...

Our other pack is a CCS barrel pack, for the food and all the kitchen stuff.
Both are VERY well made pack and work excellent for us.
Joe

Pilgrimpaddler: "

Ausable: "If what you have is a true Duluth Pack #4 rather than, say, a Granite Gear #4 or a Kondos #4, then the Pioneer will be much closer in volume to your original pack."

It’s replacing a true #4 Duluth Pack - which is huge and not at all fun to carry."

You will appreciate the CCS padded shoulder straps, the load lifters, the thick waist belt and stabilizer straps, and the padded back panel.

Two man trip with the Guide pack and CCS 60l barrel pack.

I own 2 CCS Explorer packs and 1 Pioneer. Never even thought about buying a Guide simply so I don't overpack. And with the snorkle that extends the pack height and the top pocket on the flap, you'd be amazed just how much you can cram into the Pioneer. Regardless, you can't go wrong buying a pack from Dan; I've ended up selling a Kondos and a Granite Gear pack because of the quality of what he does.

I was deciding between the two last year. I went with the Pioneer (which I love), BUT if I were planning to pack for multiple people, I'd get the Guide. Like others have said, it can be cinched down if needed and won't feel any bigger than a Pioneer.

I have a Duluth #4 and a CCS Pioneer pack. The pioneer is noticeably smaller so I'm guessing the the Guide is the same size as the #4.

If its for 4 of you, thats fine, if its just you or 2 people, too big. If you DO need something that size for one or two people you should seriously consider how much unnecessary items your bringing or downsize to smaller more pack-able/quality gear, albeit more expensive. Had a guide and sold it and went with the pioneer. Perfect for two, still too big for one, unless a VERY extended trip. On solo trips I bring a bushcrafter or when needed an explorer.

A couple ways to look at it... the bigger garage that you build, the more crap you end up stuffing in it. Same with packs.

The other way to look at it - fill the Guide full of the lighter, fluffy stuff so you're not trying to lug a 100# pack because you stuffed so much stuff in there.

I’m leaning towards the Guide, I don’t have to cram it full if I’m going solo or just a group of two, but with the group of four the other three guys are a generation younger than me and all make fine sherpas, and one of them will be carrying the Guide. They don’t want the old man to get hurt, so I get stuck portaging a Kevlar canoe :)

I see that you are in White Bear Lake. Why don't you take advantage of Midwest Mountaineering's anniversary sale May 16-19 and check out the size of the two packs there? Then use the 20% off one full-price item coupon. Win-win!

If you are in White Bear- The next suburb over is Lino Lakes where They are made and you can try them on there. All three sizes of the Hybrid Series are stuffed out to try on. Call ahead 651-784-8777 to be sure someone will be there to assist as there is no set hours at CCS. If you choose to buy them from a retailer that is fine.

I have one of each. The Pioneer is really big enough for anything you're likely to do, but the Guide is my problem-solver pack. It can easily be cinched up to carry as small and easily as the Pioneer, but if you want more space there's always more. I've certainly gotten it overloaded before, but fortunately on that trip I had a 17-year-old boy along who just dug in and got it done. I can certainly pack more into a Guide than I'm willing to carry on a 320-rod portage.

As some have said, you can always cinch down the Guide to be much smaller than its maximum volume. It's not much more expensive than a Pioneer. I took one on two trips last year (combined with a GG Quetico something-or-other) and bought another one at the end of 2018 during a sale. They're awesome bags. I never filled one higher than 2-3 inches past the cinch part near the top of the bag, with minimal stuff in the lid zip area, and they always closed with PLENTY of strap to spare. So we could have easily fit more gear in the bag.

Obviously - if you have a huge bag, you might be tempted to put a lot of stuff in it. Try to balance volume with weight and mix it up - sleeping bags, tents, and heavy survival gear in one bag, with cooking gear and other misc. stuff in another. This way you won't overstuff one bag or make one bag way heavier than the other (despite a lot of remaining volume). This should be pretty obvious after a single test packing session.

unshavenman: "I see that you are in White Bear Lake. Why don't you take advantage of Midwest Mountaineering's anniversary sale May 16-19 and check out the size of the two packs there? Then use the 20% off one full-price item coupon. Win-win!"

I don’t see anything about an anniversary sale on the Midwest Mountaineering website - am I missing something? It’ll be hard to pass up a 20% discount, but if I can’t get the Guide on sale then I’ll get it directly from CCS as they’re so close to where I live.

I believe you need to join Midwest Mountaineering mailing list and they will email you the coupon, or they can look you up when you get to the register.

Oldtown13: "I believe you need to join Midwest Mountaineering mailing list and they will email you the coupon, or they can look you up when you get to the register. "

I did sign up but have yet to see anything regarding an upcoming sale, but maybe that’s on the way.

Pilgrimpaddler: "I did sign up but have yet to see anything regarding an upcoming sale, but maybe that’s on the way."

I forwarded mine. Just don't beat me there and take the one I've been lusting after.

The Guide pack is great for hauling marshmallows. I very much like my Pioneer packs and my Explorer pack. I was a #4 Duluth pack guy and went to a large Kondos pack, but once I got a Pioneer (CCS), I adapted to it and like it best.

OCDave: "

Pilgrimpaddler: "I did sign up but have yet to see anything regarding an upcoming sale, but maybe that’s on the way."

I forwarded mine. Just don't beat me there and take the one I've been lusting after."

Thanks, Dave! If you tell me what you're planning on getting I'll make sure I don't buy the last one they have in stock.

Pilgrimpaddler: "Thanks, Dave! If you tell me what you're planning on getting I'll make sure I don't buy the last one they have in stock."

I have a Brown Pioneer that suits me fine but, a teen-aged son keeps co-opting it for Scouting trips and such. I am getting him his own Pioneer pack this weekend, probably red as I think it is the brightest of the color they typically stock. It's OK if you take the last red one, I understand the blue ones hold just as much.

We purchased a Guide around 10 years ago and love it. We decided on the Guide because it gave us more versatility. I cinch it down for solo trips so it doesn't fit as much in it and I can also fill it when I need to. It is a very comfortable pack to carry even when fully loaded. We did just sell our Redrock Superpack and used the money to buy a Pioneer. I am looking forward to trying it out in a couple of weeks.

Here is my sherpa carrying the Guide stuffed full.

I couldn't decide either, so I got one of each, Both are excellent packs! If I had it to over again, I would get two Pioneers. I think the Pioneer is an excellent size for 40-50 lbs and I can't carry more than that.

On the other hand, the Guide only weighs 4 more ounces (I think - something like that) and has the extra capacity if needed and handles bulky items. Both cinch down.


CCS has quality products for sure! Both packs in pic have about 42lbs in them, ready to load in my truck for a 10 day solo May 20-30 (my first BWCA trip!)

OCDave: "

Pilgrimpaddler: "Thanks, Dave! If you tell me what you're planning on getting I'll make sure I don't buy the last one they have in stock."

I have a Brown Pioneer that suits me fine but, a teen-aged son keeps co-opting it for Scouting trips and such. I am getting him his own Pioneer pack this weekend, probably red as I think it is the brightest of the color they typically stock. It's OK if you take the last red one, I understand the blue ones hold just as much. "

Dave - I did get a red one today, but it was Guide. Thanks again for your help!

Pilgrimpaddler: "Dave - I did get a red one today, but it was Guide. Thanks again for your help!"

I visited MWM three times in three days, but couldn't pull the trigger on either the red or blue Pioneer Pack. I have settled on the bright yellow, but they didn't have it in stock and the coupon was limited to "In stock" items. For now, I'll continue to fight over my brown one with the teen-aged son.

I was hoping for a blue Guide but they didn’t have blue in stock so I got a red one. I wanted to look at yellow but there were no yellow Guides either. Still, I’m glad with my upgrade from a #4 Duluth pack.

All colors are currently in stock in the Pioneer and Guide Hybrid CCS Packs

My wife and a I just got back from completing the Cherokee loop out of Baker EP. We used two packs, a #4 Granite Gear and a #3 Traditional Voyageur. It had been many years since my wife had been in for a many portage loop and the Voyageur pack proved too much for her, even lightened as we went. Based on the reviews here I bought her a CCS Pioneer pack. Those who are worried about space shouldn’t be. It holds a lot of gear, as many have stated. (I reloaded the new pack and it held the same amount as she was carrying before) The front zipper pocket will be great for maps, rain gear, etc. The tightening straps and hip belt will be a major improvement. The side pockets will be great for a saw and tucking in a water bottle.

As we have aged, the amount we can carry is definitely is less per trip! As you are buying gear for a lifetime, think smaller not bigger.

The rumors are true - the Guide is huge! It holds as much as an original #4 Duluth Pack (or the D.P. Hudson Bay a square-bottomed pack about as big as the #4). Fortunately, it's adjustable straps make it possible to decrease the size for smaller loads.

I went back and forth for a long time trying to decide between an Pioneer and Guide. I ended up getting a Pioneer. I love it. I did my first solo this year, and found myself thinking the next pack I get will be a guide. I pack creature comforts and more than I need. I will never sell the Pioneer, and will get a lot of use, but there are some instances where I'll want the guide. If it were my first pack, I'd get a guide. They cinch down well, so it doesn't need to be more bulky.

I ended up getting both a Guide and a Pioneer, so I can pack for a bigger group or a one to two person trip. My old Duluth packs are still available for reserves. I’ve got six packs now which is probably two too many.

Just in quick summary:
So a Guide would be about like a Duluth Pack #4 and a Pioneer like a #3 ??
I've seen the cu in table but wanted to hear from those with firsthand experience.

schweady: "Just in quick summary:
So a Guide would be about like a Duluth Pack #4 and a Pioneer like a #3 ??
I've seen the cu in table but wanted to hear from those with firsthand experience.
"

I've got two DP #3 packs (one regular, one waxed canvas) and in my opinion the Pioneer has substantially more space than a DP #3. The Pioneer is also much more comfortable on a portage!

Had a Guide, sold it for a pioneer, pioneer is more than enough for 1 or 2 people on an extended trip, I just felt that I didnt need the extra size of the Guide. I also have an explorer, that works for me as well. Also had the GG superior one (sold it) size was good though. Also have Frost river old no.7 which is also "enough" pack. Truth be told, ive gone to lighter, more packable gear and learned to do without some "necessities". Time, experience and age will shrink your load down. Never regretted selling my Guide.