I have a permit for Ep 23 for Sept of 2019. I originally planned on a 7 day solo trip but after a lot of thought and a nudge from my wife I have decided to take my 5 year old son with me. I think overall, sharing the experience with him will be more rewarding then a solo trip and it is a much easier sell to my wife.

Current plan is to take the Fourtown, Boot, Gun route into Friday Bay of Crooked Lake. Stay a couple days in the area and exit west through Basswood to Fall Lake. The goal is to find good fishing on Crooked, see the pictos and Basswood Falls. I have planned the trip so that we dont do much more than 10 miles a day on travel days and a couple layover days are planned. We are outfitting through Packsack Outfitters on Fall Lake so that will give us some flexibility on when we get back.

I am planning this trip like its a solo trip since I will be carrying 99% of the weight. Obviously additional food and clothing for my son will be required but shouldn't require too much of an adjustment in packing, I dont think?

My son is very adventurous and resilient and I think he will thrive in the BWCA environment but, of course, there will be challenges because he is still very young. I know that I will have to slow down and enjoy the journey instead of focus on the next destination - which is what I need to do anyway in BWCA and in life. :)

Is my route realistic for my circumstances? I know a lot of people do smaller base camp trips with kids to get them started, but I really want to get deeper in and do a loop. I should probably mention this will be my 6th trip to BWCA but has been awhile since my last trip.

I appreciate any feed back, thanks!

This topic has come up here on the board a few times in the past. Almost universally, the commentary has been to make the trip 100% about your five year old. I'll repeat those last three words - FIVE year old.

You already know that you'll be carrying 99% of the gear. You'll be doing 99.5% of the paddling. You have to consider current paddling conditions, as well as those on future days of your trip. You'll be doing it all. You don't want to get too far in and have the conditions turn windy and dangerous for the two of you.

But... forget about all that and just remember one thing... your five year old will LOVE this trip and he'll LOVE you for taking him if you don't over-drive him on paddling and portaging. He won't care if you camp 200 yards from the put-in. He'll be camping in the wilderness with his Dad.

He'll remember this trip FOREVER if you make it fun - swimming, fishing, throwing rocks in the lake, having campfires, talking, eating good food, making popcorn over the fire... all that kind of stuff. Get him his own "canoe pack" so he can carry some of his gear, just like Dad does.

Plan accordingly and have a great time. The seeds of a lifelong paddling partner can be planted on this trip.

Even though my son was 13 on his 1st trip with us to the BW, I still had to work hard within myself to find that balance between pushing him enough that he would build a little grit and letting my expectations drop so he had a great experience. What felt easy to me, seemed like way too many miles from his perspective. Even now at 15, he loves to travel hard and fast for the morning and then stop by 1 or 2 pm so he has lots of time to explore.

So my advice, make sure the route has enough flexibility that you can stop much earlier in a day than you might be expecting, or go further if that is what he wants. Exploring around camp (my son's personal favorite), fishing, swimming, or climbing a bluff just to see what is up there are all experiences as valuable as the number of miles you cover.

Have a great trip!

I'd recommend instead of doing the big loop as planned for your solo, instead still go in Mudro but then only go as far north as Gun. Daytrip from there, paddle the Moosecamp river down into Fourtown. Keep it light and simple. As others have said, make the trip about your kid's experience.

Ultimately, you know your own abilities and your 5 year old's tolerance. A bad trip could turn him off to future trips for years to come. A good trip could have him asking to come on the next one while you're driving home.

Think of fun things at any camp you use. Plan card games such as "war" (deal 2 cards and high card wins), bubbles to blow, hide and seek with large bean bags to hide and find, and drawing paper and crayons. It is about him and be mindful of tolerance for any one activity. Do not forget to take plenty of S'mores for fixing at the campfire he makes with your suggestions on how to do that.

Sound advice from all. Thank you for taking the time to comment!

On the early trips I took with my kids they played around the water a lot and were perfectly content to throw stones, wade, build piles of stuff, play games. Not as much paddling and looking around as I like to do. Limited fishing.

A lot of this is dependent on the kid but without knowing your son I'm guessing this might be a bit much for him at 5 years old.

I'm taking my daughter who just turned 6 last week on a trip in July. We'll be doing a basecamp trip with some day trips. If I were to take her on a solo I for sure would not plan on doing a loop that requires moving every day or every other day. That is a lot of work for you to tear down and set up camp while at the same time managing a 5 years olds often fluctuating moods. That will eat into the amount of time the 2 of you have to go out and have fun doing all the other stuff there is to do and it will mean more time for your son to have to keep himself occupied.

I know my daughter would pitch in with chores as she is able and she usually has a great attitude toward fun and adventure but daily tear down and set up can get a bit tedious for a kid and I'd want to guard against that at this stage.

Instead of taking your son on the trip you had planned for yourself I think you should take a fresh look at it and plan the trip around your son to maximize his enjoyment. You want these first few trips to be a grand experience for him and pushing too hard and taking on too much on the first trip may make it harder to get in a 2nd.

Trim that canoe correctly or paddling into the wind with a 5 year old in front will be impossible.

Take him on a canoe trip this summer, test it out, see how long he lasts before you commit to a long loop with an exit different from your entrance. Always have your backup plan in mind. What if you get rain or windbound for a couple days? Bring his favorite snacks. I've taken my kids since they were very young - I think 3 was the youngest. You know your kid, trust your gut...but I'd sure test him and your limits out on an easier trip first. You don't want to sour him to it on his first trip. Have fun!

Slow Troller

Lots of experienced based advise on this site. Everyone's situation is unique. I believe its all about collecting all the pertinent info, filtering out the superfluous, and making the decision that works for you!

With that being said, I think Jackfish had a lot of worthwhile comments. Re-read those !!

And Have a great time, its the BWCA!!

Speaking from my own trips with young children, I think your plans are unrealistic. Jackfish has some sound advice. My advice is shorten the distance and the days, spend more day light time out of the canoe than you spend in the canoe.

Enjoy, these days will be gone in a blink of an eye.

In this situation I would base camp on the first lake and do day trips keeping attuned to your son's attention span and apparent enjoyment. Don't push too hard on the first outing.

The first trip with Lyonty was when he was 10 with 3 of his class mates. We were going to do a loop. But we got a late start, hit some wind so when we got to Disappointment we set up a base camp and did day trips the rest of the trip. Didn't get our loop in but had a great trip.
The moral is to be very flexible and like everyone else mentioned make sure the trip is about your child's itinerary not your's.

It's great to start them early. On my kids first trips I spent extra time doing everything because I had them help out, especially in camp. Setting up the tent, making food and cleaning up after, how to find good wood and split it, fishing etc. A lot of the time I wouldn't fish myself and just help them. They learned a lot on those early trips and soon were a lot of help on other camping trips.

I'm a firm believer in having them do as much as they can. As we all know kids are learning sponges. They want to help, make you proud. At five he should have a small backpack and at least carry his own cloths and sleeping bag. Portaging is hard and he should feel the sweat pride of doing a challenging portage. No reason he can't carry, say 10 lbs or so. Heck I would even get him a pair of leather gloves and bring a good knife along so he can learn to baton safely so he can help with the firewood(kindling most likely). Kids are cheated out of this too often these days, we coddle too much. They can be very helpful if given the skills.

Of course when the chores are done, there are fish to be caught, swimming to do, rocks to be skipped, woods to explore. Man I wish I could go back and relive those early times with my kids. Although 2 weeks from today at my youngest kids request my wife and our 3 young adult children are all going up for a week. It's payoff time for all the skills I taught them over the years.

As far as your route though, I would let him dictate how far in you go. In my opinion he should help with stuff but shouldn't be driven too hard. I don't know him or his abilities. For instance he may only be able to do a couple portages in a day every other day or he may be able to do 10 miles a day. You may only want to move every other day to reduce the set up/tear down so you have more time to do fun stuff like fishing, swimming, exploring, whatever he wants, like. Distance isn't the key here, learning, having fun, sharing time together with your little man is key. Enjoy!

Short sweet and fun.

riverrunner: "Short sweet and fun."

Base on Gun

SlowTroller,

If you want to preserve your 7 day solo but, also fit in a kid friendly trip this summer, consider a weekend trip to Glendalough State Park

This is a small, quiet park in the NW part of the state. There are paddle in campsites and good fishing. A three day trip to Glendalough will be memorable to your 5 yo and you will be no more than a 15 minute paddle from your vehicle.

Just one option. Good Luck

I would rethink things. In addition to all the stuff people have mentioned already, acknowledge your limits too. I can get impatient with my daughter and the 100s of questions. Eighty of them repeat questions. I think seven days would be too much for me. I could maybe do three.

Do your solo trip and then take your five year old on a weekend "BWCA" trip to one of the area campgrounds up there and do day trips into the BWCA like Wood Lake or a daytrip down the Kawishiwi River. Also, there are a bunch of campsites that are free that are BWCA-like in the ely area. You can google a list of them from the USFS.

My 2 cents.

We did a three-day trip with our 4 and 7 year old great nephews and their parents last year. The entire trip was less distance than many of our day trips! But it was great. There's already been a lot of great advice and I would just say this is a situation where, even more than usual in the wilderness, that you need to play it by ear.

We also had a trip several years back where we had two girls that were about 7-10 and their parents were worried about taking them in as far as we wanted to go (just to Malberg) but they had an amazing time and were asking for tougher trips in the future.

Just pay attention to your son and you will have a great time. And in a few decades you will have a portage sherpa when you start needing that.

Lots of good advice here. My two cents:

You want to leave him wanting more at the end of the trip, not being exhausted and crabby. My own experience was obviously only one and I can't claim I got it all figured out, but when my daughter was little I made all trips short, easy, and fun, but actively involved her in every part of the trip. She was always asking that our trips be longer, but I kept them short so that at the end she wanted more. She's my primary tripping partner now and loves the wilderness.

My advice is, don't do essentially your solo trip while dragging him along, with you doing 99% of the work. Give him a tiny backpack with his stuff in it, show him the maps, have him carry the paddles, and scale things down to where he will *enjoy* the sense of responsibility and empowerment that only the wilderness can provide. Let him paddle, "lead" you down a straightforward portage, fill the water bottles. Let him do 20-30% of the work on a short, fun trip, and let him feel like it's *his* trip, not just yours. He shouldn't just be a passenger.

EP23 isn't a bad entry point but I'd suggest an easier one that gets to more interesting stuff sooner - EP38 comes to mind, as it gets you canoeing right at the car, and gives some easy portages you can take him through to give him the portage experience without a slog.

You want him to love it, not survive it.

We started taking our little one when she was eight weeks old. She has done many trips (20 +/-)....some fairly deep. She is now almost eight years old and has built up a love for the wilderness and a fairly good stamina. She has not carried her own gear in the BWCA, but she would carry a little back pack with her snacks and a few plastic toys. We would also double portage.

However, the one thing I would say is portage time still takes a lot longer even doing the portage 1x. Often times, we take multiple breaks on the portages to go explore a little off the trail, to have a snack or to just sit and look at the wonder around us.

She prefers to be in the same camp for at least two nights. It becomes her home. On our more vigorous trips, we usually set aside the day before our big move day for us to stay close to camp and will paddle our lake only so she can rejuvenate. Bring lots of easy to eat snacks for the trail and paddling. The little ones burn a lot of calories and seem to be constantly hungry. ;)

Speaking as the one who was responsible for setting up and packing away her stuff, my stuff and the shared kitchen items, I disliked moving every night and have only done that very few times.

Ultimately, be prepared to change your plans to meet your son's needs/desires. She and I recently did a 3/4 mile hike-in campsite near the BWCA and she carried her own gear (double portage). She did awesome.

Thanks again for all of the advice. Lots to think about.