Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Listening Point - General Discussion
      Would you take on a bear to save your dog?     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 02:19PM




On 5 May, 2019, Ashley Gribble was walking in the woods with her five dogs. She had bear spray. She encountered a black bear that exhibited typical predatory black bear behavior.

The bear kept coming, even after the bear spray was used. Fortunately, one of Ashley's dogs, 80 pound Bane, jumped between the bear and Ashley. Here is some of Ashley's account from facebook:

I was able to discharge my bear spray but it did not stop the bear. At this point I'm yelling and backing up while the dogs are barking. As I do so, I fell backwards over a rock. When I was on the ground, the bear just a few feet from me, lunged and I prepared myself for a bite. It was at this moment that my dog Bane lept in front of me and the bear attacked him instead.

This bear picked my 80lb dog up like a stick and proceeded to run with him for a short distance. They grappled, Bane was able to get free and run but then the bear chased him like he would chase a deer, grabbed his behind, bit into his back, covered him with his body and pinned Bane. I'm screaming and yelling help and then before I even knew what was happening, with adrenaline surging through me, my instincts were taking over and I was running full tilt at the bear with a log. I proceeded to beat that bear in the face and head with the log repeatedly, specifically aiming for his eyes and nose. Finally, after about a dozen blows, the bear released Bane and he was able to flee back to the other dogs to safety.

Okay great Bane is safe but now the bear and I were face to face. And right about now I'm wondering WTF did I just get myself into. I screamed as loud as I possibly could and banged the log against the trees beside me. The bear stared at me for what seemed like forever and then for whatever reason the bear decided to give up and slowly retreated up the slope behind him as I backed my way out of the trees towards the waiting dogs.

Fortunately, Ashley's and Bane's actions were enough to stop the attack after the bear spray did not. The bear had followed Ashley and the dogs for 15 minutes before the attack. The bear had approached to within five feet of Ashley as she attempted to disengage. The dogs had not provoked the bear; the bear did not chase the dogs back to Ashley. Ashley's dog, Bane, survived 26 puncture wounds from bites and claws, and is recovering.

Ashley is convinced, if not for her dog Bane's actions, she would have been mauled, and likely killed.

Bear vs dogs
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 02:31PM
This seems like a mostly made up story to promote firearms. Sure I'll use a hatchet or whatever else I might have to help my dog. Dogs are like family to me not just a pet.
 
05/31/2019 04:30PM
Well a bear is just a wolf in bear clothing. Haha. Of course I’d help...
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2431)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 06:47PM
yes, I would intervene but I would be beholding to the Lord if I didn't trip over a rock at the start.
If it's a grizz both the dog & I are hi-tailing it. I don't care what they say. I ain't standing down a Grizzly!
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 08:51PM
x2jmorris: "This seems like a mostly made up story to promote firearms. Sure I'll use a hatchet or whatever else I might have to help my dog. Dogs are like family to me not just a pet."
i
The story is true.

The article defines one of the reasons firearms are naturally better then spray
 
Portage99
distinguished member (217)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 09:26PM
I think most of would, because instincts for the dog you love would kick in. You would not be thinking logically. Kind of like what you would do for your kids.

And, I think most of us would have that, 'oh shit' moment once the dog was safe.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 09:40PM
riverrunner: "x2jmorris: "This seems like a mostly made up story to promote firearms. Sure I'll use a hatchet or whatever else I might have to help my dog. Dogs are like family to me not just a pet."
i
The story is true.


The article defines one of the reasons firearms are naturally better then spray"


Typical from anti-firearm people:)
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2019 09:49PM
Have you ever been grouse hunting in early season with your dog, and been confronted by a bear? I have. I would have put all my 7 1/2 shots to his face if my dog or myself felt threatened.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2431)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 05:00AM
I think dogs have a knack for drawing aggressive, bad-tempered behavior from bears.
Ever notice how folks who live in isolated areas (Alaskan wilds) have a firearm? There's a reason for that.
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 06:51AM
No I am not anti firearms lol. I have many myself. But just because a person tells a story doesn't make it true. I don't believe this story is true. And of course they are advertising it like that because it is a gun site. Alaska is a bit different than MN, can't fairly compare that.
 
Northland
distinguished member (204)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 07:53AM
x2jmorris: "No I am not anti firearms lol. I have many myself. But just because a person tells a story doesn't make it true. I don't believe this story is true. And of course they are advertising it like that because it is a gun site. Alaska is a bit different than MN, can't fairly compare that."

This story seems a bit Hollywood-esque to me, as well. “Typical predatory behavior?” For a black bear?

When I lived in AK, the vast majority of folks used a combination of bear bells and spray and were fine. The bells help the bears to stay away from you to begin with, and the spray because it’s not only more effective but is easier to deploy and actually hit something with. But there’s a swagger factor with guns-vs-critters, especially here in the lower 48 where we generally have very few issues with predators, to begin with.
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 08:21AM
Tell this guy bear spray works well. Tell him bear attacks don't happen in the lower 48. Black bear attacks have happened in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Colorado. Not just Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, etc...…. And yes people have been attacked by bear in the bwca.

There was the black bear attack in Isabella a year or 2 ago. Bear attacked dog and a person. Both times the bear was beaten and left. However these are men amongst men!! Not your average person. jk

That said I don't carry spray in Minnesota or a bear gun. Sometimes if by myself or in a small group I will carry a small pistol in wolf country.

Alaska and some western states are a different story. Myself and other people of the woods like a shotgun with slugs or a high caliber magnum pistol like the Redhawk Alaskan Double-Action Revolver,Smith & Wesson Model 500 to name a few.

In this link on bwca.com LindenTree talks of the forest service train and requiring Winchester 870, I think he meant Remington for bear.

I my opinion you have you have a better chance of being shot, stabbed or attacked in down town or North Minneapolis. The U of M campus has also become a dangerous spot. For a young lady the U of M is even worst. So bad that we have the Aurora rape crisis center on campus.

Spray didn't save this guys life.

If you don't have a gun in a fight with a bear over a dog your odds are not good. But we buy powerball tickets, so to each there own.

Like many have said it's like a seat belt. Doesn't save your life every trip, but when in a crash it is priceless.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 08:33AM
A quick search of Ashley Gribble bear attack.

Turned up six news articles confirming the story.

Typical predatory behavior?” For a black bear?

Yes predatory black bears have been know to act in certain ways.

This one followed the norm.

 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 09:27AM
Bushpilot both your references were Grizzlies. Not that Black bears won't attack but it's just a different scenario.

And river I know she told the story and it was covered on other sites. That doesn't make it all factual. It is just a person telling a story that I believe is exaggerated....that is my belief on it.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2431)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 10:18AM
Northland:
When I lived in AK, the vast majority of folks used a combination of bear bells and spray and were fine. The bells help the bears to stay away from you to begin with, and the spray because it’s not only more effective but is easier to deploy and actually hit something with. But there’s a swagger factor with guns-vs-critters, especially here in the lower 48 where we generally have very few issues with predators, to begin with."

Did you live in Anchorage? I was car camping through the Kenai Peninsula in late June of '17 when THIS happened. So very sad he didn't get a chance at living life to it's fullest. He had time to call home on his cell phone to tell his parents he was being chased by a bear. He could see the traffic along Turnagain Arm, for goodness sakes! I remember acutely the shock of hearing about it. Seriously, it should be required for runners to have bear spray strapped to their chest in Alaska. What else provokes a bear's predator instinct more than a slow-moving target.
(I'd still run like hell from a 'determined' Grizz.)
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 03:46PM
Most likely doesn't believe this one also. No other witnesses.

Or the many others that have been attacked by predatory black bears.

These people have no reason to make this stuff up.

23 Jul 2006

55 Year Old Ontario Man Kills Bear With Knife

Black Bear, Human Predation, Natural History, The Right Stuff




null
Tom Tilley and Sam the dog

Reading of the death of Dr. Jacqueline Perry, last September, in a bear attack, Waterloo, Ontario resident Tom Tilley resolved to arm himself with a six inch hunting knife. Perry’s husband had tried unsuccessfully to drive off the bear which was attacking his wife, futilely stabbing at it with a Swiss Army knife.

(Since this was Canada, nobody even thought of carrying a gun.)

Tilley’s decision to carry the knife proved providential. Last week, during a 12-day canoe trip, Tilley found himself being stalked by an aggressive black bear near Abbey Lake (in the vicinity of Wawa, Ontario)

When the bear blocked Tilley’s path, and began advancing menacingly, Sam, his Staffordshire terrier, came out from behind his master, and placed himself between Tilley and the bear.

The bear grabbed the dog in his jaws, but thinking to himself “‘You’re not going to kill my dog,” the horrified Tilley drew his knife, and advanced to the attack. Tilley leaped onto the bear’s back, and began stabbing. Though bitten on the hand, Tom Tilley killed that bear.

The wounded man was able to drag his canoe over a short portage and crossed a nearby lake where he was able to find some American campers equipped with a satellite phone. They summoned a float plane for an emergency medical evacuation.

Kitchener-Waterloo Record



Jacqueline Perry attack


CBC News · Posted: Sep 07, 2005 2:56 PM ET | Last Updated: September 7, 2005



A black bear that may have learned to prey on humans killed a woman and injured her husband at a provincial park in northern Ontario.

Police and wildlife officials were on the hunt for the wounded bear Wednesday and campers have been ordered out of the back country of Missinaibi Lake Provincial Park.

Jacqueline Perry and Mark Jordan, both 30, were attacked at a campsite in the provincial park about 80 kilometres north of Chapleau.



Ontario Provincial Police said that while the bear was attacking Perry, her husband managed to stab it with a Swiss Army knife in a frantic effort to keep it from dragging his wife into the woods.

Perry was a family doctor at Grandview Medical Centre in Cambridge, Ont.

The couple were on a two-week holiday, camping and kayaking at a remote campsite when the black bear attacked.

OPP Const. Karen Farand said after fighting off the bear, the injured Jordan carried his wife to their kayak and started paddling to the nearest campsite. He yelled for help, and a father and son from Pennsylvania heard him and took Perry into their boat.

They soon flagged down another boat with a doctor from North Carolina and an off-duty police officer on board. The doctor tried to treat Perry while the boat continued on to the park office about 10 kilometres away, but Perry succumbed to her injuries.

"I've lived here all my life and this is a first for me," said Farand. "I can't even imagine what [the couple] went through."

Keith Scott, a bear expert with the Ministry of Natural Resources, said such attacks are very rare.

"There's only been four fatalities in Ontario through black bears dating back to about 1978," he said. "This one in this particular case, it's early in the investigation, but it appears to be a predatory-type bear. These bears have learned to and often prey on humans."

There have been a number of bear attacks across Canada this summer.

A Manitoba man fended off a black bear in early September, just one week after a black bear killed another man in the province. There have been four grizzly bear attacks in Alberta since June, including a fatal one on a female jogger near Canmore. And a woman in British Columbia was mauled by a bear in May

 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4723)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/01/2019 03:48PM
A fast moving target... blackies regard you as prey
I am pretty aware of the black bear attacks near NYC.. 2 fatal.. He tried to run so the fast moving scenario did not work.. the bear was faster.

In bear country I leave my dog at home..
Bear bells are hilarious.. In Glacier we were told by rangers. that the little tinklies are no use.. you need a bell as on a bell buoy.. Wind through pines and the sound of running water obliviates the cute little bear bell sound. So lacking Nun 2 ( we left it at home) we sang on the trail.. very off key.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 03:55PM
As the black bear population increases so do the incidents of predatory black bear attacks.

One can do what they want in the woods going armed or not that is a personal choice.

It always amazes me that those who do not want to carry firearms. Try and convince others they do not have to or should not want to.

I could care less what choices you want to make unless those choices interfere with the choices I make.
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 05:19PM
riverrunner: "As the black bear population increases so do the incidents of predatory black bear attacks.


One can do what they want in the woods going armed or not that is a personal choice.


It always amazes me that those who do not want to carry firearms. Try and convince others they do not have to or should not want to.


I could care less what choices you want to make unless those choices interfere with the choices I make."


I never told anyone what to do at anytime. It matters not to me. I don't care about animals either. I'd prefer deer go extinct :) bears can fall into that category as well.
 
justpaddlin
distinguished member (170)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 08:38PM
I like to think that there are very few situations where I would abandon a family member. That said I don't know if any of us know how we will react in a unique and sudden fight or flight situation.

My uncles used to tell a story about a family camping trip where a bear came in their open cabin door and stole a bag of groceries so my grandmother grabbed a frying pan and ran after the bear and got the food back.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 09:50PM
In bear country I leave my dog at home..

I grouse hunt in bear country, I'm bringing my dog.
 
LindenTree
distinguished member(2811)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2019 11:51PM
I've had my cabin broke into two times by bears, nothing worse than coming back from a 2 week fire assignment to find your windows broken out. Then you go into your bedroom and find out that the bear has groveled in your bed with a bottle of Maple Syrup. Bear hair and Syrup are not a plesant sight in your bed, much less this was a dry cabin with no running water.

I spent 3 years in Alaska and never cooked one slab of bacon in my cabin there, I didn't want another repeat.
I really do not care what people use for bear defense, what ever they decide I hope they are trained in that defense and are bear aware. I learned the hard way when my cabin was broken into, funny thing is, I still can't remember what I did wrong. I was in one of the highest bear areas in California and it was in a National Park besides.
Yogi's kids?
Maybe.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2019 05:42AM
LindenTree: "
I really do not care what people use for bear defense, what ever they decide I hope they are trained in that defense and are bear aware. I learned the hard way when my cabin was broken into, funny thing is, I still can't remember what I did wrong. I was in one of the highest bear areas in California and it was in a National Park besides.
Yogi's kids?
Maybe."


You don't have to do any thing wrong bears do what bears do.

Doesn't take much training to save your self from a bear.

Having trained well over a thousand people to defend themselves. Owning and operating a personal self-defense training business.

With and with out weapons.

Mental state and the willingness to act is far more important.

Learning the proper techniques and how to use weapons is only a small part of the equation.

 
06/02/2019 07:35AM
I think Linden was saying for example if you whether you take a gun or bear spray know how to use it and safely. I’d rather see people without a gun than someone who would be wielding it around safety off not knowing what he’s doing. Bear spray too, be comfortable pointing and shooting. You’d be surprised how many people wait til they have to use it to figure out what you have to do to operate it. Be surprised to see how many people don’t know how to operate a fire extinguisher. Haha.
I wish I had a picture at a portage where there was a group of big tough looking guys all with handguns holstered ready for that big bear. And a group of skinny little gals In bikinis without a care in the world going the other way. I’m with Linden and I think your saying the same... go with what your comfortable with and don’t worry about the next guy.
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2019 08:36AM
What would you do to save your dog from a deer? On a lighter note Ely man and his dog chased by a deer.

Ely officer reprimands deer chasing man
 
KarlBAndersen1
distinguished member(1052)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2019 08:37AM
It's a true story.
Would I do something to save my dog? Absolutely.
I spend very little time of my life unable to defend myself and those around me.

On a side note - just Google, "Woman and dogs attacked by bear".
The list is amazing.
 
arctic
distinguished member(5226)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/02/2019 12:41PM
Would I do everything I could to save my dog? Absolutely. If I had one of my guns with me, I would shoot the bear. But, I rarely carry a gun outside of when I am hunting.

I have lived in bear and wolf country for nearly 30 years and have traveled fairly extensively in grizzly and polar bear country. These last two critters are the only ones I have been nervous about on a few occasions.

Predatory black bear attacks do occur on rare occasions, but there are countless other things that are far more likely to take you out.
 
merlyn
member (35)member
 
06/02/2019 04:27PM
I didn't go toe to toe with the bear but I think this counts. While walking my three dogs along a slough I duck hunt the dogs suddenly ran ahead and started barking like crazy. At first I thought bear hunting dogs and mine were fighting but it was a sow and 2 cubs. The cubs were running up a bushy hill to reach the trees and mom was charging each dog in turn, not engaging the dogs but keeping them from chasing the cubs. My 80# lab mix Ralf got his teeth into the bear and got a swat in return resulting in a $1444.00 vet bill. I whistled and yelled at my dogs and Ralf and my yellow lab Merlyn came to me but 6mo. old Malachi, a choc. lab/ griffon mix went on point and froze not 20 feet from mama bear. It should be noted he has never gone on point ever again. Calling and whistling didn't get his attention so like a dumb A I went and put a leash on him and pulled him away while mama made a chuffing sound at me but never came closer. When we were about 100 feet away she took off after the cubs and I could see them up a tree.
I saw her and the cubs twice more that year once while they were up a tree right near my truck. I later found where hunters were baiting bear near there.


 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2019 05:30PM
Bushpilot: "I my opinion you have you have a better chance of being shot, stabbed or attacked in down town or North Minneapolis. The U of M campus has also become a dangerous spot. For a young lady the U of M is even worst. So bad that we have the Aurora rape crisis center on campus."

Have to speak up here. The Aurora Center has been providing crucial services on campus for over 30 years. College campuses all over the world are inhabited by 18yo a-holes with too much testosterone, access to booze, and inflated opinions of themselves. Sexual assault is not a new issue on this or any other college campus and it has nothing to do with the U of M being a "dangerous spot."
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2019 07:16PM
O.K. Defend my dog? Probably!

Heres the deal. Less than three people/year in all of North America die from bear related incidents while 26 people will die from dog attacks and 90 people will die from lightning strikes. Lets be clear, typical black bear behavior around humans is to flee.

If carrying a firearm provides a feeling of security then I encourage that but frankly when I am in the back country I am truly more concerned with Homosapiens than bears.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 06:23AM
Freddy: "O.K. Defend my dog? Probably!


Heres the deal. Less than three people/year in all of North America die from bear related incidents while 26 people will die from dog attacks and 90 people will die from lightning strikes. Lets be clear, typical black bear behavior around humans is to flee.


If carrying a firearm provides a feeling of security then I encourage that but frankly when I am in the back country I am truly more concerned with Homosapiens than bears."


Firearms are one of the best defensive tools you can carry for defense against most any violent attack.

Non fatal bear attacks are much more common and will really mess up your day and or life. Then cost you lots of time and money a simple trip to the ER is going to be thousands of dollars.

As far as lightning and bears it all depends where you are at. There are areas where you are in far more danger from bears then lightning.



Lightning and bears
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(1928)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 09:59AM
While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun.
 
Nozzelnut
distinguished member (149)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 12:32PM
Banksiana: "While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun."

Your source for that one?
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 02:46PM
Banksiana: "While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun."

A totally false statement promoted by the anti-fire arms crowd using false data.
 
06/03/2019 03:26PM
riverrunner: "Banksiana: "While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun."


A totally false statement promoted by the anti-fire arms crowd using false data. "


I am totally pro gun and will defend this right and all rights for that matter, but I'm sure it's true that more untrained people shoot themselves or someone else than people get mauled by all wild animals annually. Just the amount of people that accidentally shoot themselves or someone else while hunting is common. This is not the result of the gun itself but a training and respect issue only. Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people. But thats doesn't make Banksiana's statement false. Why is it we shoot anyones opinion that differs from ours down so quickly and slap a label on them and assume they have an agenda.

 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
 
prettypaddle
distinguished member(516)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 07:06PM
Ha! I saw this post right next to the thread about protecting your dog from wolf attacks -- I thought someone was going to suggest taking a bear with you when camping to scare off the wolves and save your dogs!
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2019 07:42PM
minnmike: "riverrunner: "Banksiana: "While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun."



A totally false statement promoted by the anti-fire arms crowd using false data. "



I am totally pro gun and will defend this right and all rights for that matter, but I'm sure it's true that more untrained people shoot themselves or someone else than people get mauled by all wild animals annually. Just the amount of people that accidentally shoot themselves or someone else while hunting is common. This is not the result of the gun itself but a training and respect issue only. Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people. But thats doesn't make Banksiana's statement false. Why is it we shoot anyones opinion that differs from ours down so quickly and slap a label on them and assume they have an agenda.


"


It does seem if you say anything against a firearm you get labeled anti guns lol. I was in law enforcement and have multiple different firearms at home. I agree with your points but it doesn't make me anti firearms. I agree with your points.
 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 11:03AM
riverrunner: "Accidental fire arms data.


accidental rates at all time low


Guns by the numbers


More gun numbers


Guns or drowning "



Your objective source is a gun owner's rights advocacy group? I checked out that website and was absolutely disgusted by the blatant racism espoused along the right-hand column under the "Background" heading.

I will stick to sources whose goals are to promote public health. For example:

The American Journal of Epidemiology
The American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 11:28AM
All those you list have political agenda to restrict the use of firearms.
So you would rather believe those that are in favor of restricting ones constitutional rights.

Or those who want to enforce the constitution and make sure your rights are not trampled on by those who would rather you not enjoy them.

The answer for me is more freedom less restrictions.













 
mtn
member (27)member
 
06/04/2019 12:06PM
I'd eschew firearms and bear spray. I'd just grin him to death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ1kVDEbcts
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 12:10PM
I'd rather not believe either of them. Both have an agenda.
 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 12:16PM
x2jmorris: "I'd rather not believe either of them. Both have an agenda."

I just hate those pesky pediatricians with an agenda to not have kids get shot. They are the WORST.
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 12:19PM
thegildedgopher: "x2jmorris: "I'd rather not believe either of them. Both have an agenda."


I just hate those pesky pediatricians with an agenda to not have kids get shot. They are the WORST."


Haha fair point. I mean people take certain stats to make it seem a certain way. I'm not saying kids should have access to firearms or that they don't get killed by them.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/04/2019 12:57PM
riverrunner: "Freddy: "O.K. Defend my dog? Probably!



Heres the deal. Less than three people/year in all of North America die from bear related incidents while 26 people will die from dog attacks and 90 people will die from lightning strikes. Lets be clear, typical black bear behavior around humans is to flee.



If carrying a firearm provides a feeling of security then I encourage that but frankly when I am in the back country I am truly more concerned with Homosapiens than bears."



Firearms are one of the best defensive tools you can carry for defense against most any violent attack.


Non fatal bear attacks are much more common and will really mess up your day and or life. Then cost you lots of time and money a simple trip to the ER is going to be thousands of dollars.


As far as lightning and bears it all depends where you are at. There are areas where you are in far more danger from bears then lightning.



Lightning and bears "


My personal experience is that bears are far more dangerous than lightning. My family used to sneak into the indoor polar bear exhibit at Assiniboine Park Zoo in Winnipeg to picnic, where we were often attacked by bears, but never once hit by a lightning strike.
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(1928)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 01:44PM
riverrunner: "All those you list have political agenda to restrict the use of firearms.
So you would rather believe those that are in favor of restricting ones constitutional rights.


Or those who want to enforce the constitution and make sure your rights are not trampled on by those who would rather you not enjoy them.


The answer for me is more freedom less restrictions.
"


I'm not anti-gun. I hunt. I have fire arms in my house. But this notion of "right to own guns" at any cost is beyond stupid and dangerous. What part of "well-regulated militia" implies that there should be no regulation?

Look- if I had a problem with falling down the solution would be to watch where I'm walking not deny the existence of gravity.

That we have a problem with gun violence in this country is irrefutable. To deny it is to prioritize belief (what we want to be true) over knowledge (what is true as determined by empirical evidence). People with guns kill people. Usually the people they love or themselves. In 2013 there were 73,500 people injured by guns in the US and 33,000 600 killed. Imagine if those numbers were attributed to ebola- it would be a national emergency. At the same time the NRA has effectively prohibited any federal funding on public health research on firearm injury.

I would think that for riverrunner using a fire arm to defend against bear assault would be a good choice- I'd advocate for that. But riverrunner has knowledge and skill with firearms. He trains and drills and has his shit together- likely that he would make the right choice and be effective in his deployment of a gun.
 
06/04/2019 01:49PM
I trust the bears more than I trust the dogs
been bitten too many times by peoples "friendly dogs."

never been bitten by a bear, nor threatened

go bears, I am fine if dogs go extinct
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 03:03PM
Banksiana we need to enforce the laws we have. It is illegal for a felon to possess a fire arm, yet Minneapolis the courts are turn felons loose that have been caught with guns. This is what my cop friends tell me. Yet the people of Minneapolis are ok with it. Same in Chicago. 50 plus people shot and about 10 killed in Chicago last weekend. We have to end catch and release. Or how about that actor from Chicago that did the fake hate crime and they let him go. Enforce the laws we have after that we can see if we need changes.

Yes congress will fix the shootings. Like they fixed health care and immigration. Give me back my old plan and Doctor. How is that government don't call list working? We can't even have an election with out a fight.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 03:07PM
Banksiana: "riverrunner: "All those you list have political agenda to restrict the use of firearms.
So you would rather believe those that are in favor of restricting ones constitutional rights.



Or those who want to enforce the constitution and make sure your rights are not trampled on by those who would rather you not enjoy them.



The answer for me is more freedom less restrictions.
"



I'm not anti-gun. I hunt. I have fire arms in my house. But this notion of "right to own guns" at any cost is beyond stupid and dangerous. What part of "well-regulated militia" implies that there should be no regulation?
"


Like most people who are infavor of restricting consitional rights you left out a very important part.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

,the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

What part of shall not be infringed.

Don't you understand.

There is two separate statements in the 2nd amendment.

The first having too do with the state keeping and raising a militia.
, then the right of the people to bear arms

If you missed the comma in the amendment you should go back and read it and not leave the 2nd part out of it.
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 03:23PM
Missmolly did you know Winnie the Pooh ? He is the most famous bear I know and he is from Winnipeg. Can't say I have ever met him myself.
 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 03:37PM
riverrunner: "Banksiana: "riverrunner: "All those you list have political agenda to restrict the use of firearms.
So you would rather believe those that are in favor of restricting ones constitutional rights.



Or those who want to enforce the constitution and make sure your rights are not trampled on by those who would rather you not enjoy them.



The answer for me is more freedom less restrictions.
"




I'm not anti-gun. I hunt. I have fire arms in my house. But this notion of "right to own guns" at any cost is beyond stupid and dangerous. What part of "well-regulated militia" implies that there should be no regulation?
"



Like most people who are infavor of restricting consitional rights you left out a very important part.


Amendment II


A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


,the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


What part of shall not be infringed.


Don't you understand.


There is two separate statements in the 2nd amendment.


The first having too do with the state keeping and raising a militia.
, then the right of the people to bear arms


If you missed the comma in the amendment you should go back and read it and not leave the 2nd part out of it.
"



The truth is that it's a horribly constructed sentence to begin with, and legal scholars have debated its meaning for years. Collective Rights Theory, etc.

You do not have exclusive rights to the single valid perspective on this topic. You are welcome to your opinions but that's all they are.
 
em8260
distinguished member (132)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 03:42PM
05/31/2019 09:40PM
riverrunner: "
x2jmorris: "This seems like a mostly made up story to promote firearms. Sure I'll use a hatchet or whatever else I might have to help my dog. Dogs are like family to me not just a pet."

i
The story is true.


The article defines one of the reasons firearms are naturally better then spray"


Typical from anti-firearm people:)

Ditto...

A nonsensical thing to say...
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/04/2019 04:40PM
Bushpilot: "Missmolly did you know Winnie the Pooh ? He is the most famous bear I know and he is from Winnipeg. Can't say I have ever met him myself."

Winnie was only a cub when he still lived in Canada. However, he did attack my family when we switched from wrapping seals around ourselves, thinking the blubber would buffer us, to dipping ourselves in honey, thinking we'd be too sticky for any bear to oh, bother us.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 04:54PM


"



The truth is that it's a horribly constructed sentence to begin with, and legal scholars have debated its meaning for years. Collective Rights Theory, etc.


You do not have exclusive rights to the single valid perspective on this topic. You are welcome to your opinions but that's all they are."

This is why we are having a discussion about it.

I have not tried to shut any bodies perspective down.
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 05:06PM
missmolly: "Bushpilot: "Missmolly did you know Winnie the Pooh ? He is the most famous bear I know and he is from Winnipeg. Can't say I have ever met him myself."


Winnie was only a cub when he still lived in Canada. However, he did attack my family when we switched from wrapping seals around ourselves, thinking the blubber would buffer us, to dipping ourselves in honey, thinking we'd be too sticky for any bear to oh, bother us. "


Your family would have needed a gun to keep me from trying to have them for lunch.

I love seal muktuk. The older the better.
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(1928)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 05:06PM
riverrunner: "

Like most people who are infavor of restricting consitional rights you left out a very important part.


Amendment II


A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


,the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


What part of shall not be infringed.


Don't you understand.


There is two separate statements in the 2nd amendment.


The first having too do with the state keeping and raising a militia.
, then the right of the people to bear arms


If you missed the comma in the amendment you should go back and read it and not leave the 2nd part out of it.
"


It's not two separate statements. If it were two separate statements the statements would be separated by a period. That's the way English works. As pointed out this is a horribly constructed sentence.
 
Fried Fish
distinguished member (126)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 05:15PM
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

What part of shall not be infringed.

Don't you understand." Riverrunner.

This has gone off the bear vs dog rails.
Riverrunner, are you saying that if the arms I wanted we're a tank with a couple of ICBM's riding along, that those arms would be fine? Wouldn't want to infringe upon my constitutional rights, right.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:01PM
Fried Fish: ""the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


What part of shall not be infringed.


Don't you understand." Riverrunner.


This has gone off the bear vs dog rails.
Riverrunner, are you saying that if the arms I wanted we're a tank with a couple of ICBM's riding along, that those arms would be fine? Wouldn't want to infringe upon my constitutional rights, right."


Most ridiculous statement I have heard on this website.
Pro-gun vs anti-gun. The saga continues:)
I will continue to use my guns (legally) when I see fit.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/04/2019 06:06PM
Bushpilot: "missmolly: "Bushpilot: "Missmolly did you know Winnie the Pooh ? He is the most famous bear I know and he is from Winnipeg. Can't say I have ever met him myself."



Winnie was only a cub when he still lived in Canada. However, he did attack my family when we switched from wrapping seals around ourselves, thinking the blubber would buffer us, to dipping ourselves in honey, thinking we'd be too sticky for any bear to oh, bother us. "



Your family would have needed a gun to keep me from trying to have them for lunch.

I love seal muktuk. The older the better."


You would have had to take a number, just like the bears. You wouldn't have wanted to rile the polar bears by cutting in line. They were a pretty tough crowd.
 
Fried Fish
distinguished member (126)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:10PM
Zwater, good for you and I will continue to use my firearm (legally) as I see fit also.
The ridiculous statement was tongue in cheek, knowing full well parameters, see infringements, already exist that limit my "arms" ownership.


 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:27PM
A discussion is not an argument. It is only arguments in here and people not even reading what others are writing.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:28PM
I understand it could be construed as tongue and cheek, but there are many people who could see it the other way.
This whole discussion was about protecting your dog, now it's a 2nd amendment discussion. Am I wrong?
 
Fried Fish
distinguished member (126)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:40PM
You are correct. It turned into a second amendment thread.
Back to saving my dog from a bear, I would probably use my poison dart blowgun on Mr. Bear to save my pooch.
 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 06:44PM
riverrunner: "This is why we are having a discussion about it.


I have not tried to shut any bodies perspective down."



I would disagree. When you present your interpretation as proof that the other person is wrong and fails to understand (“what part of shall not infringe do you not understand”), then you’re just talking at people. This is not a discussion.

Bowing out of this discu--... argument.
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(12773)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/04/2019 07:10PM
I just love gun threads...munching on popcorn now.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 08:39PM
Savage Voyageur: "I just love gun threads...munching on popcorn now.
"


Bear and gun threads what could be better.

Back to bears and dogs.

66-year-old West Virginia woman was hospitalized before dawn Friday after she was attacked by a bear on the deck of her home, reported WBOY.

Opal Gillespie of Upshur County had stepped outside with her two dogs when she “turned to go back in doors” and came face-to-face with what authorities believe was a black bear, according to WBOY.

Capt. Douglas Benson with the state’s Division of Natural Resource says the attack occurred around 1:30 a.m. at the woman’s backdoor — and that he believes the bear was startled and trying to escape when it mauled Gillespie and both her dogs, reported WDTV. One of the two dogs was killed in the attack, the station reported.


 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 08:48PM
Another bear dog story

A dog was attacked and killed on a Sitka trail on Saturday, defending her owner from a brown bear.

????????

The same bear may have shown aggressive behavior towards hikers on another trail the following day.

Linda Behnken, a long-time resident, called Sitka Police at about 8:45 a.m. Saturday morning from the Mt. Verstovia trail.

Behnken told KCAW that she and her female husky/shepherd mix Rascal, along with a friend’s golden retriever, were descending the trail on the lower third of the mountain, when they rounded a switchback and encountered a large male brown bear coming up.

She says that Rascal immediately got between the bear and herself, and forced it to turn back into the brush.

Behnken, a veteran trail runner, says that this was not the first time she and Rascal had encountered bears on Sitka’s trails, nor was it the first time that Rascal had intervened in this way.

This time, however, the bear returned and attacked the dog.

According to state game biologist Steven Bethune, the bear’s behavior might have been the result of unfortunate timing.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 08:51PM
Another one from may 13th 2019 closer to home



A dog was injured but survived a fight with a bear in Glenwood City, Wisconsin, on Sunday.

According to Glenwood City Police Department, the dog's encounter with the bear happened after its owners let it outside before going to bed.

"The bear must have had the cubs close by because it continued the attack even after the dog ran to the deck," police said in a Facebook post. "The owner shot at the bear and believes he hit it at least once."

The family lives on West Walnut Street in the city's northwest side, not far from from a creek that runs through the St. Croix County town. Glenwood City is located about 40 miles east of Stillwater, Minnesota.

Police have since received reports from people seeing a bear "running round town with some cubs."

In response, they're encouraging residents to avoid leaving bird feeders and garbage cans outside at night, and if they see a bear or bear cubs to call the Wisconsin Wildlife Service at 1-80-228-1368.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2019 08:58PM
Like I said before, I will unload all 5 rounds of 7.5 low base shot into a bear confronting my dog or I while grouse hunting. Can have 5 rounds instead of 3 while duck hunting. Who disagrees? This is a good constructive topic.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2019 05:37AM
I only hunt grouse with a double so would only have two shots ready.

And I believe 7.5s are the best size shot for grouse. I have killed hundreds of them with it.

A oz. of 7.5 at 1200fps works very on the bird.

And at close range would result in a dead bear.
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2019 07:46AM
Savage Voyageur: "I just love gun threads...munching on popcorn now. "

I like turtles!
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2019 08:10AM
nctry: "I wish I had a picture at a portage where there was a group of big tough looking guys all with handguns holstered ready for that big bear. And a group of skinny little gals In bikinis without a care in the world going the other way "


Were was this portage?????
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/05/2019 08:28AM
Bushpilot: "nctry: "I wish I had a picture at a portage where there was a group of big tough looking guys all with handguns holstered ready for that big bear. And a group of skinny little gals In bikinis without a care in the world going the other way "



Were was this portage?????"


Ha! BP, it's clear we're on opposite sides of the political divide, but your solid sense of humor builds a bridge. Plus, you're a bush pilot!
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2019 09:51AM
Molly the left and the right tell me that. My voters registration card says democrat. When I was a kid that meant ask what I can do for the country …. not what the country can do for me. Now I vote for who I personally see as best for the state and country. Sometimes I find myself voting to keep people out of office.

I would like to think most of us see 90 % of the issues the same way.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/05/2019 10:31AM
Bushpilot: "Molly the left and the right tell me that. My voters registration card says democrat. When I was a kid that meant ask what I can do for the country …. not what the country can do for me. Now I vote for who I personally see as best for the state and country. Sometimes I find myself voting to keep people out of office.


I would like to think most of us see 90 % of the issues the same way."


Cool beans.

I had a fun moment yesterday. I sat beside a pilot who trains pilots and I asked him, as someone who's flown single engine planes cross country, if I could land the American jet. So, he had us pretend we were in the cockpit and I play landed the jet as it was landing. Fun! He kept saying, "Not yet, not yet," as my flying instructor once said, keeping the nose up and bleeding off airspeed. He also said that if someone had zero flying experience, but could drive a manual, they could probably land an airliner because they understand energy management and that, he said, is flying.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2019 04:33PM
Freddy: "Savage Voyageur: "I just love gun threads...munching on popcorn now. "


I like turtles!"


So do I find them delicious.
 
nooneuno
distinguished member(807)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2019 06:41PM
I find it interesting to read these posts on how everyone would go toe to toe with nothing but a stick to defend their faithful companions, have any of you actually been within 15' of a bear with bad intentions on his mind? The last time I was fishing on the Russian River on the Kenai Peninsula I had a 15 shot ten millimeter loaded with Buffalo Bore in a cross breed chest holster and still felt like a tethered goat. I have two labs, one 80 lbs and one 7 lbs if we meet a bear in the woods it's every man (dog) for himself.....
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2019 05:31AM
Dogs and man have been hunting partners for as long as dogs and man have been together.

Dogs help men, men helps dogs.

One of the main usefulness of dogs is to distract large and dangerous game while the men move in for the kill.

What throws the off is the modern foolish idea that modern man should not be armed with the most efficient weapons to defend both himself or his dog.

The foolish idea that wild animals have more rights to the woods then man who has been around just as long as them.

There is not a wolf or bear or any wild animal that has lived in my woods longer then I have.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/07/2019 06:46AM
riverrunner: "Dogs and man have been hunting partners for as long as dogs and man have been together.


Dogs help men, men helps dogs.


One of the main usefulness of dogs is to distract large and dangerous game while the men move in for the kill.


What throws the off is the modern foolish idea that modern man should not be armed with the most efficient weapons to defend both himself or his dog.


The foolish idea that wild animals have more rights to the woods then man who has been around just as long as them.


There is not a wolf or bear or any wild animal that has lived in my woods longer then I have. "


If you're Native American, you can trace your lineage to about 13,000 years ago.

From the article: ""There's been no turnover or change in the population group as some people had previously hypothesised," says Nielsen. In fact, about 80% of Native Americans today are direct descendants of the Clovis people, who lived across North America about 13,000 years ago. This discovery came from a 2014 genetic study of a one-year-old Clovis boy who died about 12,700 years ago."

If you're European, you're a riverrunner-come-lately.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2019 07:02AM
Natives are not men.

I use the term men for all men.

Doesn't matter when or how they got here or any other part of the world.

Men have been running around the wilds a long time.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/07/2019 07:49AM
nooneuno: "I find it interesting to read these posts on how everyone would go toe to toe with nothing but a stick to defend their faithful companions, have any of you actually been within 15' of a bear with bad intentions on his mind? The last time I was fishing on the Russian River on the Kenai Peninsula I had a 15 shot ten millimeter loaded with Buffalo Bore in a cross breed chest holster and still felt like a tethered goat. I have two labs, one 80 lbs and one 7 lbs if we meet a bear in the woods it's every man (dog) for himself....."

Your point is why I think this thread is much conjecture about nothing. No one knows what they'd do. You can assert that you'd save the day, but until you're in that moment and you step up, it's just bluster.

I remember reading about the doc and her husband who were attacked by a bear on Lake Missinaibi. The doc was fatally wounded, but the husband did take a canoe paddle to the bear and beat it back, allowing him to load his wife into the canoe and paddle to help. If that widower were in this thread, he'd have the creds to assert what he'd do.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/09/2019 04:56PM
riverrunner: "Natives are not men.


I use the term men for all men.


Doesn't matter when or how they got here or any other part of the world.


Men have been running around the wilds a long time."


Bears have been around 30,000,000 years. Our species, about 200,000 years. Bears have been in the woods 150 times longer.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 05:08AM
The numbers can be disputed and are.

The idea that we been around together around "200,000" years means we are well use to being in the same area.

Human's know bears, bears know humans.

As I said there is no bear alive now days that have been around as long as I have.

I lived in and used the woods longer then they have.















 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2019 07:31AM
You were born on January 1st, 1900, making you 119 years old and change.

Here was the oldest local bear.

So, yes, using your metric, you are the ruler of the woods.

However, although on land you command, the sea doesn't belong to thee.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 08:14AM
Was around before she was and I am still around.

I started killing bears before she was born and I still hunting them.

Hopefully for another 20 years or so.

I like clam chowder also.

 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2019 09:03AM
Then you should tell folks: "On land I command and by sea, it's still me!"

Of course, too soon, bacteria will gobble all bears, you, and me. Circle of life, R2.
 
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(1871)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 09:17AM
I wouldn't take on a bear to save my dog. I might throw a rock. I get all my pets at the pound so I figure I have given them all extra time. I'd be sad, but I'm not getting in a fight with a bear over a dog.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 09:45AM
AmarilloJim: "I wouldn't take on a bear to save my dog. I might throw a rock. I get all my pets at the pound so I figure I have given them all extra time. I'd be sad, but I'm not getting in a fight with a bear over a dog."

I love running bears with the hounds.

More then once I closed with bears fighting with the hounds and ended the fight with a bullet to the bears head.

Not really that hard wouldn't want to do with a rock, club, or knife.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(9693)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2019 04:02PM
riverrunner: "AmarilloJim: "I wouldn't take on a bear to save my dog. I might throw a rock. I get all my pets at the pound so I figure I have given them all extra time. I'd be sad, but I'm not getting in a fight with a bear over a dog."


I love running bears with the hounds.


More then once I closed with bears fighting with the hounds and ended the fight with a bullet to the bears head.


Not really that hard wouldn't want to do with a rock, club, or knife."


Okay, if you could run a North American giant short-faced bear with dire wolves on the condition that you had to end the fight with a stone ax, stone knife, or club, would ya?
 
BuckFlicks
distinguished member(670)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 04:34PM
Banksiana: "While firearms have obvious bear killing capability it is difficult to determine if the danger of assault by bear is greater than the danger of carrying a firearm. The greatest risk factor for death or injury by gunshot is household possession of a gun."

I don't think this is totally false. But it is very misleading. If you have just a minimum of knowledge of gun safety and take the minimum effort to keep your firearms safely secured, this risk drops considerably. If you are actively conscientious and have sufficient safety training and knowledge, your risk of injury or death resulting from owning a household gun drops to near zero.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 05:00PM
What does an old clam have to do with saving your dog from a bear attack?
Just wondering.
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 05:02PM
I still get together with all of my friends who were in my wedding, play in a golf league with 20 guys I have known since high school (19 years ago). But my dog is my best friend, and I would fight a bear with anything I could find if he was being attacked by a bear. His unconditional love has gotten me through some tough times, and I would do anything for my Lab!
 
06/10/2019 06:35PM
missmolly: "riverrunner: "AmarilloJim: "I wouldn't take on a bear to save my dog. I might throw a rock. I get all my pets at the pound so I figure I have given them all extra time. I'd be sad, but I'm not getting in a fight with a bear over a dog."



I love running bears with the hounds.



More then once I closed with bears fighting with the hounds and ended the fight with a bullet to the bears head.



Not really that hard wouldn't want to do with a rock, club, or knife."



Okay, if you could run a North American giant short-faced bear with dire wolves on the condition that you had to end the fight with a stone ax, stone knife, or club, would ya? "




Well of course miss molly... if it was part of a video game. Oh wait... I don’t play video games.
Had to see where this thread was going. Haha. Bye!
 
nooneuno
distinguished member(807)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 06:38PM
Keep in mind a bear sneaking about to get a free meal from an unprotected food pack is an entirely different set of teeth than one in a violent fight for survival
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2019 08:48PM
nooneuno: "I find it interesting to read these posts on how everyone would go toe to toe with nothing but a stick to defend their faithful companions, have any of you actually been within 15' of a bear with bad intentions on his mind? The last time I was fishing on the Russian River on the Kenai Peninsula I had a 15 shot ten millimeter loaded with Buffalo Bore in a cross breed chest holster and still felt like a tethered goat. I have two labs, one 80 lbs and one 7 lbs if we meet a bear in the woods it's every man (dog) for himself....."

My 100 pound lab sleeps in our bed. He is my best buddy. I would do anything for that dog. Some people have a great connection with their furry companions, some don't.
Side note. nctry, you talk a lot about your previous dog Bernie. Would you do anything? Just asking.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/11/2019 05:49AM
A one has to decide for oneself what one is willing to do.

Some are very uncomfortable with carrying or using a firearm.

Some have an aversions to killing animals.

For them they have very limited resources for defending them self or things they care about.

For those of us who do not have those personal limitations we can add another layer to our arsenal of choices. For preventing or stopping a lot violent attacks a firearm has been proven to be one of the best tools for a long time.

I have and can train someone in the proper use of firearms in a relatively short time period. If that person has the willingness and desire to learn.

But with learning to use any piece of equipment it takes a personal commitment to better ones skills.

I can show you how to paddle, how to use a fishing pole, how to throw a basket ball.

But if one doesn't practice on their own they can not improve their skill level.
 
06/11/2019 09:57AM
Quote: "Side note. nctry, you talk a lot about your previous dog Bernie. Would you do anything? Just asking."
Oh, I think Nctry Ben has already proven that he would, both for his dog and also for a neighbor's dog... Stories in old threads.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/11/2019 12:06PM
Gee missmolly

I think I found what happen to one of my lost hunting dogs.

lost dog
 
nooneuno
distinguished member(807)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/11/2019 06:30PM
I guess we know
that this guy will walk the walk: https://www.foxnews.com/us/mama-bear-attacks-man-in-la-suburb-after-dog-goes-after-cub
 
Bushpilot
distinguished member(654)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
 
06/11/2019 09:30PM
rtallent: "Quote: "Side note. nctry, you talk a lot about your previous dog Bernie. Would you do anything? Just asking."
Oh, I think Nctry Ben has already proven that he would, both for his dog and also for a neighbor's dog... Stories in old threads."





Didn’t see that message... of course we’d do what we can. Bernice was pretty smart about dealing with everything but one stupid porcupine. Haha! But we honestly don’t know what we’d do. Funny topic in a way because we were just saying how crazy the bear activity has been around here. Hardly a bird feeder left in quite a radius. Obviously more than a couple. And boy the cubs we seen... I’d ship them back to Chicago if I could catch them. Haha!
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2019 05:15AM

In a recent discussion with another lifelong backpacker, we both agreed the extra weight of a firearm was not worth carrying in the unlikely possibility of a bad bear encounter. We did agree however, that we would probably be doomed if we were to encounter the notorious Maynard Black-Necked Grouse!
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2019 05:41AM
Freddy: "
In a recent discussion with another lifelong backpacker, we both agreed the extra weight of a firearm was not worth carrying in the unlikely possibility of a bad bear encounter. We did agree however, that we would probably be doomed if we were to encounter the notorious Maynard Black-Necked Grouse!"


Being a life long backpacker myself.

When I did my first backpacking trip into the BOB we were the only ones that were armed.

The 2nd trip the next year everybody was armed. Difference was a mauling after we were there the first time.

With the advancement materials handguns weights have greatly approved.

One still has to make the choice and that is a personal choice.
 
scat
distinguished member(749)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2019 06:51PM
No, I wouldn’t. But I’m not a dog person. I can take them or leave them. I had one dog, a half border collie half lab that my ex brought home and it was great dog and of course became my responsibility. Somehow in two days I taught it to pick up the Chicago Trib, run it up the stairs, drop it in front of the fridge in exchange for a piece of salami every day. Pretty handy when it’s ten below outside. I had no idea a dog could be that smart. And not a clue how to train her, but she would walk next to me without a leash and follow my home made commands. Great frisbee dog and had many redeeming qualities. That said, I’ll never have a dog or cat again. I’m happy with my fish tank. I’m not getting killed by a bear to save a dog. I would fight a bear though if it came down to me versus him.
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2019 04:53AM
riverrunner: "Freddy: "
In a recent discussion with another lifelong backpacker, we both agreed the extra weight of a firearm was not worth carrying in the unlikely possibility of a bad bear encounter. We did agree however, that we would probably be doomed if we were to encounter the notorious Maynard Black-Necked Grouse!"



Being a life long backpacker myself.


When I did my first backpacking trip into the BOB we were the only ones that were armed.


The 2nd trip the next year everybody was armed. Difference was a mauling after we were there the first time.


With the advancement materials handguns weights have greatly approved.



I think you mean improved and I too have noticed a few hikers who do in fact carry a gun but I continue to see the vast majority packing bear spray.


One still has to make the choice and that is a personal choice."
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2019 06:13AM
" I think you mean improved and I too have noticed a few hikers who do in fact carry a gun but I continue to see the vast majority packing bear spray."

Improved is right sometimes spell checker gets you

A canister of bear spray weighs a much as some hand guns.

So if one is worried about weight for a almost non-event like a bear attack why would one carry spray. Either one is concerned about a bear interaction or one is not.

I know hikers who carry their handguns concealed so you most likely do not to noticed all the hikers that carry.

To some spray is the political correct choice. Some carry both.

Both have uses and limitations. Spray has a good reputation as a harassment tool but a poor one for stopping violent attacks.

Black bears seem to be less effective by spray then the brown type bears.

So pick the tool you want learn to use it.
 
x2jmorris
distinguished member(798)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2019 06:32AM
Just got back from a trip. Came to conclude that a bear isn't really any concern of mine. Worst case scenario he doesn't leave and he eats my food.

However

Moose walking near my tent is not very comforting. Also walking portages alone as the sun is going down leaves you with a different feeling. Probably all that wolf talk though I read before I went in.
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2019 07:35AM
riverrunner: " " I think you mean improved and I too have noticed a few hikers who do in fact carry a gun but I continue to see the vast majority packing bear spray."


Improved is right sometimes spell checker gets you


A canister of bear spray weighs a much as some hand guns.


So if one is worried about weight for a almost non-event like a bear attack why would one carry spray. Either one is concerned about a bear interaction or one is not.


I know hikers who carry their handguns concealed so you most likely do not to noticed all the hikers that carry.


To some spray is the political correct choice. Some carry both.



Both have uses and limitations. Spray has a good reputation as a harassment tool but a poor one for stopping violent attacks.


Black bears seem to be less effective by spray then the brown type bears.


So pick the tool you want learn to use it.
"


Bear Spray is not an "harassment Tool" its a truly effective defense mechanism with a great reputation in that regard. In fact, there is evidence to suggest that bear incidents involving firearms are more violent than with the use of other deterrents.

You are correct that spray seems to be less effective against black bears than grizzlies and that firearms are probably more often concealed. That was simply an observation in my personal experience. As you stated, both have their limitations. Hope you get a lot of customers for your training because we both know that safe and proper use of a firearm is very important.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2019 09:24AM
Freddy: "riverrunner: " " I think you mean improved and I too have noticed a few hikers who do in fact carry a gun but I continue to see the vast majority packing bear spray."



Improved is right sometimes spell checker gets you



A canister of bear spray weighs a much as some hand guns.



So if one is worried about weight for a almost non-event like a bear attack why would one carry spray. Either one is concerned about a bear interaction or one is not.



I know hikers who carry their handguns concealed so you most likely do not to noticed all the hikers that carry.



To some spray is the political correct choice. Some carry both.




Both have uses and limitations. Spray has a good reputation as a harassment tool but a poor one for stopping violent attacks.



Black bears seem to be less effective by spray then the brown type bears.



So pick the tool you want learn to use it.
"



Bear Spray is not an "harassment Tool" its a truly effective defense mechanism with a great reputation in that regard. In fact, there is evidence to suggest that bear incidents involving firearms are more violent than with the use of other deterrents.


You are correct that spray seems to be less effective against black bears than grizzlies and that firearms are probably more often concealed. That was simply an observation in my personal experience. As you stated, both have their limitations. Hope you get a lot of customers for your training because we both know that safe and proper use of a firearm is very important."


Spray so called reputation is and was built on faulty science.

The large majority of so called bear spray saves are actually harassment saves.

Where the bear was sprayed to get him to leave area where they were not suppose to be.

When it comes to stopping a violent aggressive attack it has a far less the stellar reputation.

If you want to read more about firearm use. Here's some links for you

You might find the 96% one the most interesting.



spray firearms

Firearms 96%

Rethinking spray

 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/15/2019 07:37AM
riverrunner: "Freddy: "riverrunner: " " I think you mean improved and I too have noticed a few hikers who do in fact carry a gun but I continue to see the vast majority packing bear spray."



Improved is right sometimes spell checker gets you



A canister of bear spray weighs a much as some hand guns.



So if one is worried about weight for a almost non-event like a bear attack why would one carry spray. Either one is concerned about a bear interaction or one is no



I know hikers who carry their handguns concealed so you most likely do not to noticed all the hikers that carry.



To some spray is the political correct choice. Some carry both.









Both have uses and limitations. Spray has a good reputation as a harassment tool but a poor one for stopping violent attacks.





Black bears seem to be less effective by spray then the brown type bears.



So pick the tool you want learn to use it.

"




Bear Spray is not an "harassment Tool" its a truly effective defense mechanism with a great reputation in that regard. In fact, there is evidence to suggest that bear incidents involving firearms are more violent than with the use of other deterrents.



You are correct that spray seems to be less effective against black bears than grizzlies and that firearms are probably more often concealed. That was simply an observation in my personal experience. As you stated, both have their limitations. Hope you get a lot of customers for your training because we both know that safe and proper use of a firearm is very important."



Spray so called reputation is and was built on faulty science.





The large majority of so called bear spray saves are actually harassment saves.


Where the bear was sprayed to get him to leave area where they were not suppose to be.





When it comes to stopping a violent aggressive attack it has a far less the stellar reputation.


If you want to read more about firearm use. Here's some links for you





You might find the 96% one the most interesting







spray firearms






Firearms 96%


Rethinking spray



















"



If we are going to have this discussion, at least preface it with independent facts rather than opinions from AMMOLAND.COM. The facts are clear! Actual findings from human-bear encounters since 1992 from the U.S.Fish & Wildlife Service are as follows and I quote: "People defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time and those that were injured, experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

Why? Simply because pepper spray is by far the better choice and to suggest otherwise is putting people you might influence at risk. For every pro firearm opinion article you may find, there is an article out there that will say just the opposite and there is nothing either you or myself can do to change that.

 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/15/2019 08:26AM
The 50% figure is again base on the flaw studies.

Did you read the article or just considered the source.

Flaws in the study

Dave Smith on spray

Requiring spray
 
Freddy
distinguished member(677)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/15/2019 09:16AM
riverrunner: "The 50% figure is again base on the flaw studies.


Did you read the article or just considered the source.


Flaws in the study


Dave Smith on spray























Requiring spray "







People can suggest the report was flawed but the truth is thats simply not possible because the findings stand on their own. If people want to point to other inci
dents that might come to a different conclusion, thats fine but that does not

change the facts of this particular report. Perhaps some future investigation might have different data but that does not alter the validity of this report. The facts are documented by an official and respected agency and speak for themselves.
 
06/15/2019 03:14PM
Freddy: "riverrunner: "The 50% figure is again base on the flaw studies.



Did you read the article or just considered the source.



Flaws in the study



Dave Smith on spray
























Requiring spray "








People can suggest the report was flawed but the truth is thats simply not possible because the findings stand on their own. If people want to point to other inci
dents that might come to a different conclusion, thats fine but that does not

change the facts of this particular report. Perhaps some future investigation might have different data but that does not alter the validity of this report. The facts are documented by an official and respected agency and speak for themselves."






Ok, you lost me there Freddy...
 
Zwater
distinguished member (441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/15/2019 06:28PM
+1
You lost me, too. Anti-gun vs Pro-gun will always be a debate. But freddy, you make no sense.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1765)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/16/2019 06:20AM
Freddy: "riverrunner: "The 50% figure is again base on the flaw studies.



Did you read the article or just considered the source.



Flaws in the study



Dave Smith on spray
























Requiring spray "








People can suggest the report was flawed but the truth is thats simply not possible because the findings stand on their own. If people want to point to other inci
dents that might come to a different conclusion, thats fine but that does not

change the facts of this particular report. Perhaps some future investigation might have different data but that does not alter the validity of this report. The facts are documented by an official and respected agency and speak for themselves
."


The facts do not stand on their own they have been shown to be filled with errors and improper research methods.

Researchers and government agencies are well know for having their own agendas.

It is clear the agenda of the spray advocates is to stop bears from being killed.

It is clear the some government agencies would rather bears not be killed and people not to be armed with firearms.

If you agree with those positions or not they are out there.

There is no other reason to promote bear spray use over firearms then to save bears and stop people from being armed.

 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
Listening Point - General Discussion Sponsor:
Sawbill Canoe Outfitters