My wife and I are packing for our 2nd BW trip. Last year, I packed a signal flare gun. My thinking was if we were lost/stranded/injured, it could be used to signal our location to search parties.

Aside from the infinitesimal likelihood that we'd ever need something like that, are there rules about incendiary devices like that? What are your thoughts about the risk of starting a forest fire?

I'm thinking a bright flashlight or strobe could accomplish the same thing without as much risk, but they won't be as recognizable as a flare.

Thanks,
JN

Firearms are allowed, fireworks are disallowed.

Flare guns are not specifically mentioned in the rules, I'd have to "guess" they're allowable.

However, I'd forego the flare gun and just make sure you each have a good whistle. 3 quick blasts is the "SOS" signal. The way sound carries over water, very few places in the BWCA are so remote that you wouldn't be heard.

I agree with adding some loud whistles to your strobe. I hadn't thought of carrying flares but with a Spot or Ingear communication device I don't think it would add much safety to what I already have. The whistles have the value of summoning people nearby including other members of your own group.

I have never owned nor used a flare gun. I always thought they were strictly a "motor boat on big water" kind of thing.

With that disclaimer, if you are really that concerned about needing resue, you should invest in one of the personal locator beacon devices.

Good Luck

JN: "My thinking was if we were lost/stranded/injured, it could be used to signal our location to search parties. "

How would search parties know to be looking for you in the first place? I too am not sure where they fall legally, but even if they are allowed I would skip it. In dry times, the risk of fire is very real. Read "Gunflint Burning" if you are not sure.

And since they are not common up there, if someone across the lake just saw you fire it they may think it was fireworks.

Inexpensive alternatives exist: good metal whistle (some are louder than others), metal mirror, shiny rescue blankets, strong flashlight. Best yet, if concerned about being able to be found, buy or rent a PLB or similar. Many outfitters have them, and there are companies that will rent and ship to you prior to your trip. Then you can get an SOS out from anywhere, anytime, and they'll know within about 25 yards where you are.

Whenever we go on a trip like this - backpacking or canoeing, we always leave an itinerary with someone so that they can direct help our way if we miss our scheduled return date.

Typically flares are used to direct a search party to your location - not really to signal that you need help. You could easily be aware of a search helicopter in the area long before they are able to locate you. A flare could help greatly in that situation.

I'm mostly curious about the risk of fire. I'm from a part of the country where forest fires are a minimal concern, so I'm not sure if flares are seen as common tools up here or taboo because of the fire risk.

JN: "I'm mostly curious about the risk of fire...."

There is a greater risk of forest fire if you use a flare gun in the forest.

A flare gun is not going to set the woods on fire. Unless you shoot it into to the woods and not the air. I know people that carry them in Alaska because they also work as bear defense.

That being said, for rescue I would carry a plb or sat phone.

In my mind a flare gun is used to show where you are if someone is looking for you, or if someone happens to be passing by to try and get their attention.

I guess it has a use, but in the BWCA I would doubt that anyone would see it.

A PLB or sat phone would be much more effective

Both legality and fire risk aside, I don't think a flare gun would even *help* due to the terrain. If you're needing to signal rescuers, things fall into one of two categories:

1) You're in the water or on the shore and the rescuers are somewhere on the same lake where they can see you, and if so just yelling or whistling over the water will suffice just as well, or

2) There are trees between you and the rescuers, in which case they won't be able to see your flare. Sure, maybe you manage to get the attention of an aircraft, but a lot of times they aren't even able to fly when looking for people due to a combination of pilot availability and weather, and if they are you've already been lost a rather long time and that only gets them so far to identifying your general area, and you'd need some other signalling method to actually get people on the ground to you anyway, so you might as well just use that.

They really are much better for big-open-water situations, and it seems like a lot of BWCA searches are people either on hiking trails, portages, or little tucked-away lakes, not a motorboat swamped on Basswood. You'd be better served by a PLB and a whistle, and if you really like the aircraft signalling idea, a mirror and some matches.

Bushpilot: "A flare gun is not going to set the woods on fire. Unless you shoot it into to the woods and not the air. I know people that carry them in Alaska because they also work as bear defense.

That being said, for rescue I would carry a plb or sat phone."

Gotta agree with Bushpilot on this one.
As a wildland firefighter I myself have shot flare guns off at least 100 times in an attempt to start the woods on fire. If you shoot it up in the air and it doesn't hit a tree on the way up, it should reach a height of ~100 feet. When it comes down it should be burned out and not hot.
(I have been with crews in my career that shot off flares over a 1,000 times at least) When we tried to set the vegetation on fire we would need to shoot the gun about 5-10 degrees/angle above ground other wise it would burn out before it hits the ground.
The round has to hit in the right area and the drought indicies need to quite high for them to start a fire.

So in my professional opinion there (is) a chance of someone starting a wildland fire with a flare gun, however "it is highly unlikely in the BWCA"

I carry a PLB and SPOT as well as a signal mirror in my emergency kit.
Get the signal mirror with the sight lense in the center and practice using it on your freinds, you will piss them off in a hurry.
On fires when we shined them at aricraft the pilots were very quick to tell us,
"Ok, I've got your morror"
Translation, quite shining me NOW.

LindenTree: "

Bushpilot: "A flare gun is not going to set the woods on fire. Unless you shoot it into to the woods and not the air. I know people that carry them in Alaska because they also work as bear defense.


That being said, for rescue I would carry a plb or sat phone."

Gotta agree with Bushpilot on this one.
As a wildland firefighter I myself have shot flare guns off at least 100 times in an attempt to start the woods on fire. If you shoot it up in the air and it doesn't hit a tree on the way up, it should reach a height of ~100 feet. When it comes down it should be burned out and not hot.
(I have been with crews in my career that shot off flares over a 1,000 times at least) When we tried to set the vegetation on fire we would need to shoot the gun about 5-10 degrees/angle above ground other wise it would burn out before it hits the ground.
The round has to hit in the right area and the drought indicies need to quite high for them to start a fire.


So in my professional opinion there (is) a chance of someone starting a wildland fire with a flare gun, however "it is highly unlikely in the BWCA"


I carry a PLB and SPOT as well as a signal mirror in my emergency kit.
Get the signal mirror with the sight lense in the center and practice using it on your freinds, you will piss them off in a hurry.
On fires when we shined them at aricraft the pilots were very quick to tell us,
"Ok, I've got your morror"
Translation, quite shining me NOW."

Cool post

I will chime in on being found from the air if you get lost. A mirror might be helpful if on a brighter day to flash an aircraft. The forest service and DNR will send a plane out if the weather cooperates. But, keep in mind that most likely a day search will be done by the State Patrol helicopter or the DNR in MN. They will fly 100-300 feet above the trees and search visually. If you get to the shoreline or wait in a clearing you will increase your chances of being found by making yourself visible. Making your planned route known day by day is the most important factor so people know where to start looking. As long as you don't go bush wacking your own trail far from your intended route.

I cannot stress this next point enough. If you are visible in the daylight and on a known route or area, you should be found. If you are off someplace you shouldn't be, off your route or deep off a trail, being found at night is probably your best chance for being found. At night, any type of flashlight that can be set on strobe or manually flashed (on off on off) will be very easy to find using night vision goggles. In addition, moving to a clearing where your thermal heat will stand out on the thermal cameras used to search at night will be helpful. Basically any source of light is very easy to see from the air be it a flare, campfire or flashlight. Campfires are all over the BWCA at night, but flashing lights are not. Everything is so dark on the ground that any light really stands out. If you are using a flashlight in your campsite while a search is being conducted for someone other than you, use it normally. Look around your site, go to the latrine, clean your dishes, but don't do anything unusual or they might take interest in you and your location. Try not to get cute and attract attention. Someone else needs to be found and rescuers don't want to waste time going to the wrong campsite.

If you get hurt on a trail or on the water, whistles are probably the best to signal nearby campers. Even a weak or wounded person can often make enough sound to be heard. Noise travels far across water but is more limited in the woods. If you do get lost and need help, it may take 1-7 days for searchers to find you.

One other reminder...flashing lights, laser pointers or shining a steady light directly at an aircraft is illegal (Federal and State). If you hear an aircraft at night over the BWCA they are looking for somebody. Don't go shining lights around at the aircraft unless you'd like to be arrested. They will be there looking for somebody who actually needs help so don't flash them because you don't like the noise. Please exercise the utmost integrity and be responsible.

More lost people are found using sources of light then by any other means other than a GPS distress signal, especially at night.

Thanks for the input, all.

I ended up leaving the flare home this last time (we weren't going in all that far). I may consider it on longer trips, but we (ok, I) always over pack when it comes to flashlights, headlamps, and spare batteries, so I'll probably end up assuming we can make something work to signal in the rare case that we need it. (Our deeper trips are always with my two cousins...A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right?)

JN: "A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right? "

There's nothing more useful than a nuclear engineer when you're stranded in the wilderness.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm an ME and if something needs to be rigged up I'd be hoping to have a mechanic in the group, although I'm sure the physics major would have some cool ideas.

:)

Cool post"
Agreed! Interesting thread too.

another vote for CCS multi-color tarps. And flourescent-orange rain flies, bright yellow rain coats and brightly colored packs. I know it's argued as a "form of trace to other campers", but that's the point. You'll be spotted.

JN: " (Our deeper trips are always with my two cousins...A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right?)
"

One would think, but then again I keep imagining the cast of Big Bang Theory out in the wilderness, and so maybe not? I'm changing my vote on this - maybe you better bring the flare gun next time!

justpaddlin: "

JN: "A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right? "

There's nothing more useful than a nuclear engineer when you're stranded in the wilderness.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm an ME and if something needs to be rigged up I'd be hoping to have a mechanic in the group, although I'm sure the physics major would have some cool ideas.

:)"

I would opt for the professor from gilligan's island.

Bushpilot:
I would opt for the professor from gilligan's island."

if Gilligan is with, you are still "effed" and will never get out of the BW, flare gun or not.

I attended a seminar once where a smoke signal was used to get a plane to land. They create a huge orange cloud. They are about the size of a flare. The pilot of the float plane stated that there had better be a good reason for using it to get the plane to land. A person had suffered a burst appendix and it’s use was justified.
The smoke signals are made by Orion Safety Products. I’ve seen them at Marine supply stores and at the old Gander Mountain stores.

Bushpilot: "

justpaddlin: "

JN: "A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right? "

There's nothing more useful than a nuclear engineer when you're stranded in the wilderness.


Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm an ME and if something needs to be rigged up I'd be hoping to have a mechanic in the group, although I'm sure the physics major would have some cool ideas.


:)"

I would opt for the professor from gilligan's island."

If you get a choice: I'll choose Ginger and stay lost.

jillpine: "another vote for CCS multi-color tarps. And flourescent-orange rain flies, bright yellow rain coats and brightly colored packs. I know it's argued as a "form of trace to other campers", but that's the point. You'll be spotted. "

Yup that is what we carry in Northern Ontario where it can be next year before we are spotted by land.. Air flights are lower by MNR and a signal fire COULD be noted but not acted on. Natural fires are abundant and they don't act until a certain size. Your flare smoke could look like a tiny forest fire, A personal device like In Reach is the best.

OCDave: "If you get a choice: I'll choose Ginger and stay lost."

I didn't want to say it but since you did, +1.

Bushpilot: "

justpaddlin: "

JN: "A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right? "

There's nothing more useful than a nuclear engineer when you're stranded in the wilderness.


Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm an ME and if something needs to be rigged up I'd be hoping to have a mechanic in the group, although I'm sure the physics major would have some cool ideas.


:)"

I would opt for the professor from gilligan's island."

The Professor who can figure out how to re-charge non-rechargeable batteries with coconuts and seawater, but can't figure out how to fix the dang boat? No. The smart one is MaryAnn. Despite being considered a "minor character" in the first season (thus considered "and the rest" in the original theme song), she was the only one on the island to negotiate residuals; the other six stopped making money when the show was cancelled, but she is still making money on reruns to this day!

By the way, wasn't there an episode where Gilligan lit a hut on fire with a flare gun?

Have we just comprised the integrity of BWCA.com with too many Gilligan's Island references. +1 for May Ann

JN: "...A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major should be able to rig SOMETHING together, right?)
"

A mechanical engineer, a nuclear engineer, and a physics major paddle into the wilderness...who's got the punchline? There has to be a joke there somewhere.

Two engineers come back to camp with a new canoe. Physics major ask where did you get the canoe? Engineer answers we meet two young ladies they took off their clothes and threw them in a pile next to the canoe. Then the girls reply your the 1st guys we have seen in days , take what ever you want. So we took the canoe. The physics major says "great choice the clothes probably wont fit!"

I hope JN has a sense of humor. I keep laughing out loud when I read this thread.