Just spent Thursday-Sunday in this area.

Our destination was Burnt. Paddling through rain through the afternoon we got to Burnt, and found all 6 sites were taken. Meanwhile, I saw 3 canoes headed back toward Smoke, so was assuming the one remaining site I saw on Smoke was taken. Went up to Flame, and the one site there was taken. Decided to head back to Smoke. Ended up being able to find the only remaining site on Smoke was available for us...whew. We were out of daylight by the time we made camp.

The next night, I saw a group of guys come into Smoke and decide to camp on an island where there is no designated site. BS move if you ask me as it was only 4:30.

In a way, I actually enjoyed rush to face the adversity of needing to push through to find a site. We got a late start to the day and were clearly last to the lakes, but some group had to be last. I'm not an advocate of requiring designated destinations. This whole situation seemed nuts though. Should the number of permits for sawbill be reduced? Was this occupancy rate unique for the area. I won't be back that way for sure...

gopher2307: "Just spent Thursday-Sunday in this area.

Our destination was Burnt. Paddling through rain through the afternoon we got to Burnt, and found all 6 sites were taken. "

I can't speak to the congestion but I was on Kelly on Thursday afternoon.

The weather changed quickly with dark clouds moving in fast. At first there was a brief light rain. Then it let up for about 10 minutes. Then the thunderstorm moved in and it rained hard for 15-20 minutes and eventually started tapering off. There was a light drizzle the rest of the evening. I was glad I was not in a canoe during the hardest part of the storm.

Did you have a bailer?

No, but stayed on shore until the real heavy stuff stopped.

Better question for you; we debated taking the 220 rod portage to kelly on Thursday after the first 8 sites we checked were full. Would there have been a site on Kelly? We decided against it in fear those ones were taken, and then we would truly have no place to go.

I wouldn't have bet on kelly lake being open either. The bwca seems oddly packed this year. I made a post on it about a month ago. Others seem to have mentioned it this year as well so I know I'm not crazy... at least on this issue.

Too many permits maybe but that never used to be a problem. I think the popularity skyrocketed for whatever reason. In the news with mining, people have more time, more people trying to disconnect, etc. No idea what it is but I noticed it as well this year.

The fires over the last 10-15 years have cut down on the number of lakes that people frequent. Thus pushing more people into the same areas.

I went up in end of June and we saw maybe 3 or 4 groups the whole week, but we did 12 portages the first day, the farther you go in the easier to get most any campsite. I've heard people complain that there aren't any campsites available on say ensign, what do you except? I know sometimes your making a short trip or you have a child and you don't want to travel so far. you can always get a tow part way across Lac La Croix, we did that one year with a friend of mine's 74 yr old father camped on Takamich, half of our group paddled in from LIS we had 2 permits.

We didn't have the warmest spring, people may have put off their early trips until later in the summer. I also believe Thursday is the toughest day to find a site but that could just be me.

There have been several threads this summer with this same issue. No campsites nearer the entries. I think there has been a move toward more base camping or at least less changing of campsites. People are staying longer on the same campsite and not traveling toward the interior. This just makes for fewer campsites available near the entries all the time. (Even on this board, people talk of less tripping and more time at a single campsite)

The last few summers I have noticed that if I was willing to get to the interior I was mostly alone. Unlike those of the past where no matter where I was in August, I was seeing at least one or two other people. Last summer we ran into folks all the way to Malberg, but, when we came back through the Lady Lakes, We were the only people on Hazel Lake and we saw no one on Knight and Phoebe as we passed through. Grace had an Outward Bound group there when we arrived, but they left and we paddled most of the lake checking out all the empty campsites. I think maybe one other group came in late. Beth was full and Alton was emptying (it was Sunday).

At Sawbill entry there are 47 campsites available without having to do a portage of 180 rds or more. If everyone who enters stays within that grouping and doesn't move, there are only 3.3 days of permits and those spots are full. While Baker Lake only has 3 permits per day, it is also a relatively easy access point to Burnt Lake which adds to the possible congestion there.

I just reserved a permit for next Sunday at Sawbill and was surprised to see all the permits gone for that late in September (and Thursday had none left!). We are traveling outside the interior grouping there so I hope there are no campsite issues, but it may change the direction I was planning to travel to cover the Fire Lakes early and not wait to return through the Fire Lakes later in the week. Or maybe we wll go out and stay out until time to come back and make the last day a longer travel day to just stay out of that area!

Michwall2:


I just reserved a permit for next Sunday at Sawbill and was surprised to see all the permits gone for that late in September (and Thursday had none left!). We are traveling outside the interior grouping there so I hope there are no campsite issues, but it may change the direction I was planning to travel to cover the Fire Lakes early and not wait to return through the Fire Lakes later in the week. Or maybe we wll go out and stay out until time to come back and make the last day a longer travel day to just stay out of that area!"

That is what I have been referencing. From here on out there would always be spots open. It is crazy busy this year for whatever reason.

gopher2307: " Would there have been a site on Kelly? "

I took the first site I came to after the portage from Jack. I did not check the other sites.

The next morning I noticed two camp sites occupied as I paddled out. I didn't check the others on my way out.

I entered EP 39 Baker Lake. I didn't personally try to get to Burnt-Smoke-Flame but I could understand people entering 39 would head that way.

I also met one group on the portage from Jack that was winding down their Cherokee Loop. I didn't ask where they intended to camp but I would guess they could have been headed to Burnt etc.

I did move my first bwca trip from a bucket list item to a must do this year because of the news surrounding the save the bwca effort.

I have read some theories about the cause of congestion. A lot of these theories make sense to me. I would not be surprised to find that the new reservation system was handing out too many permits. I think they admitted to such a problem when the system opened. It was supposed to be fixed but based on the initial opening, I don't have a lot of confidence in their software quality assurance, testing and verification.

rdgbwca: "

gopher2307: " Would there have been a site on Kelly? "

I took the first site I came to after the portage from Jack. I did not check the other sites.


The next morning I noticed two camp sites occupied as I paddled out. I didn't check the others on my way out.


I entered EP 39 Baker Lake. I didn't personally try to get to Burnt-Smoke-Flame but I could understand people entering 39 would head that way.


I also met one group on the portage from Jack that was winding down their Cherokee Loop. I didn't ask where they intended to camp but I would guess they could have been headed to Burnt etc.


I did move my first bwca trip from a bucket list item to a must do this year because of the news surrounding the save the bwca effort.


I have read some theories about the cause of congestion. A lot of these theories make sense to me. I would not be surprised to find that the new reservation system was handing out too many permits. I think they admitted to such a problem when the system opened. It was supposed to be fixed but based on the initial opening, I don't have a lot of confidence in their software quality assurance, testing and verification."

Baker lake was a great first time pick. Did you do a trip report by chance? Suppose I can go look myself.

I feel like I've heard this being an issue on these lakes before. I think there are certain areas that this happens more often. I'm not sure how often the permit allocation is looked at or what criteria might be used to determine if adjustments need to be made but it seems like it should always been an evolving process as things change within the BWCA. Obviously fires will cause people to stop using an area putting a greater number of people in a smaller portion of the BWCA. The changing demographics of BWCA travelers is also probably having an impact on how the area is getting used. I don't think the permit numbers should be look at as a fixed and unchangeable number. There should be a process for adjusting the numbers as needed as the BWCA and its users change.

nofish: "The changing demographics of BWCA travelers is also probably having an impact on how the area is getting used. I don't think the permit numbers should be look at as a fixed and unchangeable number. There should be a process for adjusting the numbers as needed as the BWCA and its users change. "

There is a process and the US Forest Service is in charge of it. Every so often they send out questionnaires to users, look at permit availability, and analyze that data. That includes fees and such. The latest change came after the Pagami Creek fire when Lake One permitting changed to include 30F. A quick Google search will show you the results of such surveys and analyses.

x2jmorris: "
Baker lake was a great first time pick. Did you do a trip report by chance? Suppose I can go look myself."

Trip report is still a work in progress...(I did post some fish pics in the fishing forum.)

I thought it was a good first trip.

Smoke and Burnt have developed a reputation as good fishing lakes so have been seeing more use because of that I think. I heard from a few groups who were on Cherokee last weekend and said they only saw a couple other groups up there. Likewise, there was a group who came back through Grace and Beth and said it was quiet over there. Same distance from Sawbill, just the opposite direction. I agree that we are seeing a huge increase in the number of groups that want to say near the entry points and base camp, while those who venture in further are finding it surprisingly devoid of people.