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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Gear Forum Rainjacket for a guy who runs hot |
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10/26/2019 09:04PM (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Hi all,
I'm in the market for a new rain jacket and am looking for something that I won't roast in while paddling, and that won't break the bank. I was looking at the sierra designs elite cagoule because from what I've read it vents like crazy. Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
I'm in the market for a new rain jacket and am looking for something that I won't roast in while paddling, and that won't break the bank. I was looking at the sierra designs elite cagoule because from what I've read it vents like crazy. Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
10/26/2019 09:51PM
Ive done fairly well with a marmot precip. I have a 9-year old one that I just refreshed with new DWR. No matter the 'breathability' claimed, I think the important feature for keeping cooler is is pit zips and front/back vents.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread; places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul" -John Muir
10/28/2019 06:21AM
I have tried vinyl, marmot precip, event, gore tex no pit zips, and frogg toggs (the super lightweight ones).
If money were no object I would go with gore tex WITH pit zips, but I don't think anything would be as breathable as the cheap frogg toggs. The frogg toggs jackets are light, waterproof, packable, warm, but have no pockets and can relatively easily tear. The pants... well they kinda work but dont stay up and if they are not the right length, the bottoms of the legs will be trash.
Bottom line for me: If I am back packing I take a frogg togg jacket and goretex pants. If I am canoe or car camping I currently have a gore tex jacket from cabelas, but I wish it had pit zips.
frogg toggs
If money were no object I would go with gore tex WITH pit zips, but I don't think anything would be as breathable as the cheap frogg toggs. The frogg toggs jackets are light, waterproof, packable, warm, but have no pockets and can relatively easily tear. The pants... well they kinda work but dont stay up and if they are not the right length, the bottoms of the legs will be trash.
Bottom line for me: If I am back packing I take a frogg togg jacket and goretex pants. If I am canoe or car camping I currently have a gore tex jacket from cabelas, but I wish it had pit zips.
frogg toggs
Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!
10/28/2019 07:23AM
Foxwear
I know you said you want a reasonably priced jacket, but at 63 years old, i have worn rain jackets and got fed up with being sweaty and clammy underneath, until now.
I bike commuted to work for 30 years, every day, year around. I may have missed ten days in all that time, so I needed good rain gear. I found Lou and his handmade clothing years ago. His rain gear does exactly what is says it won't do, make you sweat!
My wife and I are retired and bike everyday. Our rain gear from Lou is amazing. I have had it on canoe trips and it performs beautifully. Give him a call, tell him what you need, and he will provide.
I know you said you want a reasonably priced jacket, but at 63 years old, i have worn rain jackets and got fed up with being sweaty and clammy underneath, until now.
I bike commuted to work for 30 years, every day, year around. I may have missed ten days in all that time, so I needed good rain gear. I found Lou and his handmade clothing years ago. His rain gear does exactly what is says it won't do, make you sweat!
My wife and I are retired and bike everyday. Our rain gear from Lou is amazing. I have had it on canoe trips and it performs beautifully. Give him a call, tell him what you need, and he will provide.
10/28/2019 11:11AM
Take your choice stay dry or not, biggest difference is cost. Short the price and get something that will work part of the time.
Best comments so far,
muddyfeet "I think the important feature for keeping cooler is is pit zips and front/back vents."
bwcasolo has reflected my own thoughts on this and the fact sometimes ya got to bite the bullet and go expensive and/or custom.
Or accept the compromises of something else.
butthead
Best comments so far,
muddyfeet "I think the important feature for keeping cooler is is pit zips and front/back vents."
bwcasolo has reflected my own thoughts on this and the fact sometimes ya got to bite the bullet and go expensive and/or custom.
Or accept the compromises of something else.
butthead
"never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" George Carlin
10/28/2019 11:25AM
butthead: "Take your choice stay dry or not, biggest difference is cost. Short the price and get something that will work part of the time.
Best comments so far,
muddyfeet "I think the important feature for keeping cooler is is pit zips and front/back vents."
bwcasolo has reflected my own thoughts on this and the fact sometimes ya got to bite the bullet and go expensive and/or custom.
Or accept the compromises of something else.
butthead"
excellent answer from ken as usual, btw my rain jacket was only $130 from lou at foxwear. not a bad price for a top notch, non-sweat rain coat. Pants are made from same material for same price.
10/28/2019 02:13PM
I have a pretty expensive REI that is made of eVENT fabric. The breathability of the fabric is quite good. But I agree that good pit zips are crucial. And given my ability to sweat there is always a balance between which way I'm getting wet but this jacket is the best I've had. Can't remember the model offhand.
10/28/2019 02:37PM
I did a ton of research on this last year.
This all comes down to quality and breathability of the jacket. Pit Zips are not necessary, buying a good quality jacket is what you need. Pit zips help a jacket that cannot breath, exhaust the air instead. Nylon does not breath for CRAP, it saturates with water, and thus does not repel water anymore once saturated. Nylon is what almost every rain jacket under $200 is made of. Nylon's benefits include packing down small, being lightweight, and being cheap, downsides include it doesn't keep you very dry if the rain doesn't let up or is more than a good sprinkle, it's light and thus tears easily. Nylon also will not BREATH out the moist air between you and the jacket, THIS IS WHY EVERYONE SUGGEST PIT ZIPS FOR THESE POOR QUALITY JACKETS. Something like this jacket is NYLON. Great jacket, but NYLON sucks. Of course you have the trusty dusty Marmot Precip in this category too. Nylon is for those types of ppl that when it rains they hide under a tarp anyways. You wouldn't be out in a canoe putting up with rain all day, and staying dry, with this fabric.
https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/outerwear/ms-jetstream-jacket/
On the other end of the spectrum. There is eVENT, which Andy suggested. It is as light as Nylon, small as nylon, but breaths THE BEST OF ALL WATERPROOF FABRICS. This means you do not need pit zips, you just need a properly sized jacket (if too small/tight, it will not breath). eVent on the other hand has very poor reviews for longevity of equipment life. It is a sensitive fabric to wash, if you wash it improperly it loses a great portion of it's waterproofing, and like I said, I had read too many reviews of $350+ jackets not being waterproof after a couple years of use. I'm a guy that likes to buy 1 piece of gear for 10+ years, so eVent is not for me. eVent is GREAT for
Last but not least is GoreTex. GoreTex is an old waterproof fabric, created in the 90s or something. Basically it's just been improved upon and improved upon since then. There are many different "levels" of Goretex products. Regular old "Goretex" is the "basic" version. Then there's Goretex "active" and then "Goretex Pro". The difference is thickness of layers, the way in which the waterproof fabric is actually made, and the fabrics that accompany the Goretex. In Short. "Active" Goretex will run you about $300, anything at this level and above will last you a very long time. Goretex is made from fabrics that are tougher than above, because they breath better/as well in thicker dimensions, down side is they don't pack down for crap compared to Nylon/eVent, BUTTTT You stay dry NO MATTER WHAT. Unless you fall in the lake, you're not getting wet with Goretex. This is why outfitters rent out high quality goretex as rain coats, durable, can stand a beating, and maintains waterproofness through all that abuse and age.
I have SIMMS Prodry Goretex Bibs and Jacket, you just cannot buy a better product and there's no rainstorm in the world that'll get you wet. My philosophy is I spend so much money and time on 1-2 trips PER YEAR, i want those trips to go off without a hitch. And Idk about you but a trip where it rains the whole time is pretty hard to enjoy compared to one where it's not. My old rain gear, I'd think to myself "If it rains, I hope it doesn't rain too hard that we're tarp bound", now I think to myself "I hope it rains hard enough to test the limits of my gear".
Link explaining waterproof fabrics with data and charts
https://www.paddypallin.com.au/blog/all-about-waterproof-fabrics/
This all comes down to quality and breathability of the jacket. Pit Zips are not necessary, buying a good quality jacket is what you need. Pit zips help a jacket that cannot breath, exhaust the air instead. Nylon does not breath for CRAP, it saturates with water, and thus does not repel water anymore once saturated. Nylon is what almost every rain jacket under $200 is made of. Nylon's benefits include packing down small, being lightweight, and being cheap, downsides include it doesn't keep you very dry if the rain doesn't let up or is more than a good sprinkle, it's light and thus tears easily. Nylon also will not BREATH out the moist air between you and the jacket, THIS IS WHY EVERYONE SUGGEST PIT ZIPS FOR THESE POOR QUALITY JACKETS. Something like this jacket is NYLON. Great jacket, but NYLON sucks. Of course you have the trusty dusty Marmot Precip in this category too. Nylon is for those types of ppl that when it rains they hide under a tarp anyways. You wouldn't be out in a canoe putting up with rain all day, and staying dry, with this fabric.
https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/outerwear/ms-jetstream-jacket/
On the other end of the spectrum. There is eVENT, which Andy suggested. It is as light as Nylon, small as nylon, but breaths THE BEST OF ALL WATERPROOF FABRICS. This means you do not need pit zips, you just need a properly sized jacket (if too small/tight, it will not breath). eVent on the other hand has very poor reviews for longevity of equipment life. It is a sensitive fabric to wash, if you wash it improperly it loses a great portion of it's waterproofing, and like I said, I had read too many reviews of $350+ jackets not being waterproof after a couple years of use. I'm a guy that likes to buy 1 piece of gear for 10+ years, so eVent is not for me. eVent is GREAT for
Last but not least is GoreTex. GoreTex is an old waterproof fabric, created in the 90s or something. Basically it's just been improved upon and improved upon since then. There are many different "levels" of Goretex products. Regular old "Goretex" is the "basic" version. Then there's Goretex "active" and then "Goretex Pro". The difference is thickness of layers, the way in which the waterproof fabric is actually made, and the fabrics that accompany the Goretex. In Short. "Active" Goretex will run you about $300, anything at this level and above will last you a very long time. Goretex is made from fabrics that are tougher than above, because they breath better/as well in thicker dimensions, down side is they don't pack down for crap compared to Nylon/eVent, BUTTTT You stay dry NO MATTER WHAT. Unless you fall in the lake, you're not getting wet with Goretex. This is why outfitters rent out high quality goretex as rain coats, durable, can stand a beating, and maintains waterproofness through all that abuse and age.
I have SIMMS Prodry Goretex Bibs and Jacket, you just cannot buy a better product and there's no rainstorm in the world that'll get you wet. My philosophy is I spend so much money and time on 1-2 trips PER YEAR, i want those trips to go off without a hitch. And Idk about you but a trip where it rains the whole time is pretty hard to enjoy compared to one where it's not. My old rain gear, I'd think to myself "If it rains, I hope it doesn't rain too hard that we're tarp bound", now I think to myself "I hope it rains hard enough to test the limits of my gear".
Link explaining waterproof fabrics with data and charts
https://www.paddypallin.com.au/blog/all-about-waterproof-fabrics/
10/28/2019 03:43PM
GearGuy: "I have SIMMS Prodry Goretex Bibs and Jacket"
That looks like a solid jacket, but how about for backpacking with the weight of the jacket alone at 20 oz? the whole frogg togg suit is 10.4 oz shipping weight, which should include packaging. How well does it pack?
Never criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes....by then you'll be a mile away and they will be shoeless!
10/28/2019 05:36PM
drnatus: "GearGuy: "I have SIMMS Prodry Goretex Bibs and Jacket"
That looks like a solid jacket, but how about for backpacking with the weight of the jacket alone at 20 oz? the whole frogg togg suit is 10.4 oz shipping weight, which should include packaging. How well does it pack?
"
You're 100% right, that 20oz is a lot more weight than my Marmot Precip. Frogg toggs are great, I went on one trip with 4 guys that all had Frogg Toggs cause they're cheap. My problem with toggs is that they don't last that long, the material isn't very durable. One of my friends on the trip noticed that the butt part of his pants was wearing out and gave him a moist butt, on the first trip it was used on. Personally I hate being wet and cold and it'll ruin a trip for me. This past year I went ALLLLLLL OUT for good, no more thinking or worrying about rain gear. The trade off for weight is that you just are absolutely in your own waterproof world in SIMMS gear, all the pockets are incredibly well made, the zipper is beyond water proof, the hood is well made and is very adjustable for how you want it on your head/face, there's no pit zips but like I said the material breaths so well you won't even think about them, the bibs are OUT OF THIS WORLD comfortable and functional. Cabelas had a deal where you could make a big purchase and spread the payments over time w/o any interest, so I jumped on the Jacket and Bibs. HUGEEEEEEEEEEE up front investment, but like I said, you are in your own waterproof world, it feels like a bubble. Have never been to the BWCA where it didn't rain, now I know that I'll never be bothered by that rain again. Problem now is finding shoes that are anywhere near as waterproof lol.
10/28/2019 05:50PM
Just read the reviews
https://www.simmsfishing.com/shop/rain-wear/prodry-jacket
"This jacket is very expensive yes this was my first rain jacket that cost more then 200, never mind 500 but it is worth it. Period. It sounds bad but I just laugh inside when I get back to a boat ramp and guys are saying its so wet there soaked through there rain gear...… uh ya , not here. I now understand why guys swear by Simms." -Canehdian
https://www.simmsfishing.com/shop/rain-wear/prodry-jacket
"This jacket is very expensive yes this was my first rain jacket that cost more then 200, never mind 500 but it is worth it. Period. It sounds bad but I just laugh inside when I get back to a boat ramp and guys are saying its so wet there soaked through there rain gear...… uh ya , not here. I now understand why guys swear by Simms." -Canehdian
10/28/2019 10:24PM
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"Keep close to Nature's heart, yourself; and break clear away, once in a while, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean." ~ John Muir
10/29/2019 07:43AM
Buy once, cry once.
If you really do run hot (as I do), you're going to need to spend some cash.
Necessary----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
membrane tech (Goretex, EVent, MemBrain, etc). I haven't used them all, but Goretex pro-shell is the one that has worked the best for me. It's also going to be expensive. When I'm working HARD, I can literally see steam coming through this material. Also, it's really expensive. OTOH, it lasts the longest and has the best warranty. If the manufacturer wont address an issue, take it to Gore and they will probably help you out. Did I mention it's expensive?
Pit Zips - the longer the better. I don't care what rating the material has, I need pit zips. My wife does just fine without them. YMMV.
keeping up with the cleaning and DWR maintenance. It's not hard, per se, just another thing to add to the pre-trip checklist.
Rain Hat - a jacket hood holds in too much heat. I use a goretex sombrero.
HIGHLY Recommended--------------------------------------------------------------------------
waist/chest drawstrings. Size up for layering. When you get ready for the day, loosen all drawstrings to allow for air circulation. At the end of the day, cinch them up a bit for less bagginess and better heat retention.
velcro sleeves - being able to roll the sleaves up a few inches, or even just to open them for a bit more ventilation is a big plus (and also extends the life of your jacket if you wear it for processing wood).
The Unicorn-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two way zipper. Also known as a 'belay zipper'. Being able to unzip from the bottom is AMAZING! Your belly is likely insulated by a few inches of adipose, so getting a little wind and rain on it isn't going to hurt you like getting your chest/shoulders wet. Unfortunately, it's rare to find a jacket that has this feature, unless it's meant for mountaineering/backcountry skiing. In which case the jacket is going to have a bunch of other features that you don't want because they add weight (snow skirt, huge helmet compatible hood, recco reflector) and they usually come in eye blistering colors.
If you really do run hot (as I do), you're going to need to spend some cash.
Necessary----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
membrane tech (Goretex, EVent, MemBrain, etc). I haven't used them all, but Goretex pro-shell is the one that has worked the best for me. It's also going to be expensive. When I'm working HARD, I can literally see steam coming through this material. Also, it's really expensive. OTOH, it lasts the longest and has the best warranty. If the manufacturer wont address an issue, take it to Gore and they will probably help you out. Did I mention it's expensive?
Pit Zips - the longer the better. I don't care what rating the material has, I need pit zips. My wife does just fine without them. YMMV.
keeping up with the cleaning and DWR maintenance. It's not hard, per se, just another thing to add to the pre-trip checklist.
Rain Hat - a jacket hood holds in too much heat. I use a goretex sombrero.
HIGHLY Recommended--------------------------------------------------------------------------
waist/chest drawstrings. Size up for layering. When you get ready for the day, loosen all drawstrings to allow for air circulation. At the end of the day, cinch them up a bit for less bagginess and better heat retention.
velcro sleeves - being able to roll the sleaves up a few inches, or even just to open them for a bit more ventilation is a big plus (and also extends the life of your jacket if you wear it for processing wood).
The Unicorn-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two way zipper. Also known as a 'belay zipper'. Being able to unzip from the bottom is AMAZING! Your belly is likely insulated by a few inches of adipose, so getting a little wind and rain on it isn't going to hurt you like getting your chest/shoulders wet. Unfortunately, it's rare to find a jacket that has this feature, unless it's meant for mountaineering/backcountry skiing. In which case the jacket is going to have a bunch of other features that you don't want because they add weight (snow skirt, huge helmet compatible hood, recco reflector) and they usually come in eye blistering colors.
10/29/2019 08:41AM
bwcasolo: "Foxwear
I know you said you want a reasonably priced jacket, but at 63 years old, i have worn rain jackets and got fed up with being sweaty and clammy underneath, until now.
I bike commuted to work for 30 years, every day, year around. I may have missed ten days in all that time, so I needed good rain gear. I found Lou and his handmade clothing years ago. His rain gear does exactly what is says it won't do, make you sweat!
My wife and I are retired and bike everyday. Our rain gear from Lou is amazing. I have had it on canoe trips and it performs beautifully. Give him a call, tell him what you need, and he will provide."
Thanks for this. The prices seem quite reasonable.
We all have to believe in something. I believe I'll go paddle.
10/29/2019 02:16PM
Mammut makes some solid rainwear but it's bulky. (Let it pour!) Maybe too hot for you.
Some of the popular name brands offer great rain protection at less cost--and it's all good until you carry a load. In the middle of a downpour on a trip, you'll be upset to discover the pressure of the shoulder straps allows moisture to soak through. A good return policy is a must. Test your stuff upon arrival (shipped) or in-store purchases.
Get the best you can afford on the high end of your budget while sticking with Gore-tex for breathability. Pay attention to what matters to you. Pit zips? Deep Pockets? Minimalist? Hood or Hoodless?
Foxwear looks like good stuff, I must admit. For a top, $150 is very reasonable considering the rave customer reviews.
edit:
Rain jacket reference short vs long exposure. Read reviews.
Some of the popular name brands offer great rain protection at less cost--and it's all good until you carry a load. In the middle of a downpour on a trip, you'll be upset to discover the pressure of the shoulder straps allows moisture to soak through. A good return policy is a must. Test your stuff upon arrival (shipped) or in-store purchases.
Get the best you can afford on the high end of your budget while sticking with Gore-tex for breathability. Pay attention to what matters to you. Pit zips? Deep Pockets? Minimalist? Hood or Hoodless?
Foxwear looks like good stuff, I must admit. For a top, $150 is very reasonable considering the rave customer reviews.
edit:
Rain jacket reference short vs long exposure. Read reviews.
“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” Sir Isaac Newton
10/30/2019 07:30AM
The other day, it was windy and quite cool and I put on a double base layer of merino wool and wore the neo shell rain jacket over the base layers and biked for over two hours. I got a good workout with hills with the sun out. When I got home, I had some sweat on my wool long sleeve next to my body, but the jacket was completely dry. During rain events in the summer commuting to work, the jacket performed the same.
I have a pair of his thermal tights that I wear when it's below zero. Amazing warmth and wind protection. Wife and I are putting an order together now. Mostly bike clothing.
I have a pair of his thermal tights that I wear when it's below zero. Amazing warmth and wind protection. Wife and I are putting an order together now. Mostly bike clothing.
10/31/2019 11:07AM
Marmot makes some good ones. I have seen a few people mention the Precip. I have a Marmot Spire jacket which handles dual duty as a winter technical shell and a really fantastic rain jacket for the spring and summer. It kept me really dry on my last trip to the BWCA.
11/01/2019 05:07PM
I have a Marmot Minimalist which has Gore-Tex and pit zips. I think I scored it for $80 at Sierra Trading but they can be had for not too much more if bought new. I sweat a lot and it isn't too hot for me. It does retain a little BO smell but it hasn't been too objectionable for me. Sheds rain well.
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