BWCA Helinox Cot Lite - feedback? Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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pos1
member (45)member
  
11/05/2019 05:01PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I'm a side sleeper. Constantly roll side-to-side all night, every night. Currently using an Exped Synmat, which I do like primarily because of pack size and weight. But, as I get older it's more difficult to get a good night's sleep on a pad.

So, I'm thinking about a cot. Looking at the Helinox Cot Lite. I'm not terribly worried about the weight. A little worried about pack size. And a little worried about warmth.

I do 3-4 trips per year. One in mid-May, two in summer and one in Sept/Oct. It's the spring and fall trips I'm worried about. Having never slept above the ground I have no reference for how much colder a cot can be. I do have a good down sleeping bag (I think it's a 20-degree bag). I'd rather not bring both the cot and pad, which I've read lots of people do.

Any feedback in general would be appreciated.
 
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Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(14416)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
  
11/05/2019 06:58PM  
I have not slept on the cot you asked about, but a bit of advice for you on your warmth worry. When I sleep in my hammock I need an underquilt or I’ll freeze to death at night. That’s because I compress the bottom of the bag so there is zero loft left. The same is true when sleeping on a cot, zero loft or zero insulation. If you decide on this Helinox cot you will need some insulation.

A space blanket sounds good on paper for this but I’ve heard it does not. It is too slippery, makes a lot of noise, and a condensation nightmare.

A yoga mat will provide you with the needed insulation under your cot. It holds tight to what it’s on, rolls up tight and small.
 
11/05/2019 06:59PM  
I do not own a Helinox cot but have used others over the years including a borrowed Thermarest cot. They promote air convection heat loss and you will want some insulation under our sleeping bag, at least I did.

butthead
 
pos1
member (45)member
  
11/05/2019 10:19PM  
Is my expend good enough for insulation? I don’t think a air filled pad provides any insulation...but I’ve never been cold using just that on the ground, even when cold enough to snow.
 
11/05/2019 11:53PM  
Your Synmat is insulated with a synthetic insulation. They make different thickness and R values. Might want to check for your own comfort. A thin closed cell foam mat will add more if needed.

butthead
 
BigBearArlich
senior member (65)senior membersenior member
  
11/06/2019 12:37AM  
I have the cot and used it for all 3 trips to the bwca this summer. It was amazing. I’m a side sleeper as well, and the cot was perfect. Being a bigger guy at 6’5” and 250 lbs I was initially concerned about the durability but it blew away my expectations. I used a sleeping pad on top of the cot on one basecamp trip and it was like sleeping on clouds. The pad slipped around a bit but a little rope was a quick and easy solution. And I was concerned about the smaller hard plastic feet puncturing a hole in the floor of my tent, but I picked up a few furniture coaster discs and used Velcro to adhere them to the feet. Pack size wasn’t an issue for me, I use a sea to summit hydraulic pack. I had no issues with warmth. Let me know if you have any more specific questions.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/06/2019 06:09AM  
The reason you turn so often is the body wants to find a better comfort zone while you are in deep sleep. A cot will make a difference. A hammock did make more of a difference, for me. I also toss and turn frequently in my sleep.

I am a side sleeper too and own a Helinox Cot Lite. My suggestion is to buy the wider Helinox Cot One. Otherwise, your arms fall off the cot. Not terribly annoying but it might be if a back sleeper. I ended up getting the wider version and it does make a difference. My joints do still hurt when I sleep on a cot vs no cot--but far, far fewer discomforts. If I've had a particularly rough day then joint or muscle soreness can not be avoided no matter what. (Tylenol for breakfast!)
I have slept with a Synmat 7 and without any air pad on the cot lite but always with sleep bag rated to 32*. (sometimes unzipped as a cover) I've never awoken cold. My trips are in mid-to-late June or early September.
Last year, I invested in a Dream hammock and have only one 4-day trip sleeping in that setup. First impressions: No aches other than normal muscle fatigue of a 69 yrs old man. Zero joint pain as there are no pressure points in a hammock. I slept more on my back in the hammock and experienced sounder sleep than I've ever had on an air mat or cot. Better than my mattress at home, in fact. That surprised me! I did sleep on my side during the course of the night but discovered that as I shift positions I find a comfy zone with minimal movement. Zzzzzzzzzz
(the packed size of a Cot Lite vs Cot One is the same. Cot One has 1 less leg brace which, overall, is a bit more weight.)

 
Shimbo
member (26)member
  
11/08/2019 09:56AM  
Helinox is definitely great in general, but I haven't tried their cots yet. I can, however, highly recommend the Therm-a-Rest LuxuryLite UltraLite cot (the green version).

https://www.amazon.com/Therm-Rest-Ultralite-Cot-Regular/dp/B01MYXWFCO/ref=dp_ob_title_sports?th=1

I am 6'5", and (unfortunately) about 250 lbs. This little cot supports me very well. (note - I got the "large" version) I am a side sleeper and can never get a full night's sleep on a normal camping air mattress. This cot has allowed me to get a RESTFUL night's sleep in the backcountry(™ haha don't sue me), without waking or turning. This cot is very light-weight and honestly it feels a bit flimsy. HOWEVER - it is more than strong enough, and I get a good night's sleep even though my hip touches the ground. My hip can even be on one of the bars! The point is that it supports your whole body, similar to how a hammock does. The part of my hip that is touching the ground is not experiencing very much pressure.

One note about the durability - I have had an issue where the mylar heat reflector layer on the bottom of the cot has started tearing apart (no doubt due to the fact that my hip touches the ground). This is a nuisance, but I still love this cot, and I purchased different under-cot heat reflector from Therm-a-Rest to make up for this.

https://www.moosejaw.com/product/therm-a-rest-luxurylite-cot-warmer_10238396

I've never winter camped with this cot, but we did a late September (freezing over night) trip, and the wife used this cot without any complaints about heat (that's saying something). I would use a high R-value air pad in truly frigid temps. (e.g. Therm-a-Rest X-Therm Max or even the closed-cell RidgeRest with the heat reflector)

One last note: some have complained about this cot making noise. Before my first use, I sprayed a bit of silicone-based lube in all of the pole sockets, then assembled the cot. I have never had a problem with squeaky joints.
 
pos1
member (45)member
  
11/08/2019 10:27AM  
Your comment on noise is interesting. It's one of the things I don't like about my current pad...and most pads I've had. Since I constantly roll back-and-forth it makes a terrible noise every time. But tent mates have never complained, surprisingly.
 
Shimbo
member (26)member
  
11/08/2019 10:32AM  
pos1: "Your comment on noise is interesting. It's one of the things I don't like about my current pad...and most pads I've had. Since I constantly roll back-and-forth it makes a terrible noise every time. But tent mates have never complained, surprisingly."


The Therm-a-Rest CotLite that I mentioned is somewhat noisy, especially due to the mylar sheet on the bottom. However, I have never actually had a problem with it. As someone else has mentioned, once you get a cot, you won't be rolling over every hour or two. In my case, I was actually able to go the whole night without interrupted sleep.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/08/2019 02:58PM  
pos1, I'm gonna list my Equinox cot lite up for sale soon -- listed in the 'Items for Sale or Wanted' forum in next couple of days. (First, I have to locate it in this messy collection of camping stuff.) Gonna be a sweet deal, too. :)
 
11/08/2019 10:34PM  
For those using air thermal-rest type pads, I suggest using bungy cords instead of rope. I only use at foot of cot and that seems to be enough. I take a sheet for cover in the summer and move into a sleeping bag as needed. If really cold, I put on a heavy sweater and a personal insulated bag for the lower body. A stocking cap helps there too. I take a regular pillow which helps keep the head warm as well. The fact I base camp and do not worry about a couple of triple portages make creature comforts easier to take and enjoy.
 
LilyPond
distinguished member (400)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/15/2019 05:48PM  
pos1: "Currently using an Exped Synmat, which I do like primarily because of pack size and weight. But, as I get older it's more difficult to get a good night's sleep on a pad. . . . I'm not terribly worried about the weight. A little worried about pack size. And a little worried about warmth. . . .Having never slept above the ground I have no reference for how much colder a cot can be. . . .I'd rather not bring both the cot and pad, which I've read lots of people do."


(1) If you're not comfortable on the Synmat alone, I assure you that the Helinox cot with no pad will be WORSE. The cot provides a wonderful feeling of suspension, but zero cushioning. You need the cot and the mattress. The cot plus the Synmat is the most sleeping comfort you can possibly have.

(2) I've never been cold on a Helinox Cot with the Exped Synmat 7 (or 3-D7, which I prefer for the box sides) plus a 20-degree down sleeping bag. I've camping down to 25 degrees several times with that setup. No problem. You would freeze on the cot without the mattress.

I don't have the Lite. I have the Cot One Convertible and highly recommend it.
 
Shimbo
member (26)member
  
11/15/2019 09:09PM  
LilyPond: "
pos1: "

(1) If you're not comfortable on the Synmat alone, I assure you that the Helinox cot with no pad will be WORSE. The cot provides a wonderful feeling of suspension, but zero cushioning. You need the cot and the mattress. The cot plus the Synmat is the most sleeping comfort you can possibly have.

I don't have the Lite. I have the Cot One Convertible and highly recommend it."


I am very comfortable on my Therm-a-Rest LuxuryLite CotLite with no pad. (In late spring / summer / early fall conditions)
 
LilyPond
distinguished member (400)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/21/2019 07:33PM  
Shimbo: "I am very comfortable on my Therm-a-Rest LuxuryLite CotLite with no pad. (In late spring / summer / early fall conditions)"


OP indicates he's getting older, maybe referring to joint problems (hips, shoulders, back). One of the advantages of the Helinox cot is its drum-tight surface, which creates a stable sleep surface with no sagging and no movement of the frame. My cot hasn't shown any stretching after about 30 uses in spite of how incredibly tight the clamping devices stretch it. But it's not soft enough to sleep on without a mattress, ***at least not for older folks. The Helinox cot is quite a bit sturdier and more stable that the Therm-a-Rest cots, according to reviews.
 
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