BWCA Solo in BWCA versus solo in WCPP versus solo in Wabakimi Boundary Waters Group Forum: Solo Tripping
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jillpine
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11/10/2019 08:35AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Thoughts about the similarities and differences.
Thanks.
 
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11/10/2019 02:19PM  
I’ll be interested too. WCPP is on my list and if I’m going to be able, it’ll have to be sooner than later. Maybe next year or the following.
 
11/10/2019 04:44PM  
1. Way fewer folks by a couple of orders of magnitude.
2. More moving water. In both Wabakimi and Woodland Caribou routes tend (though not completely) to be along flows; lakes separated by moving water and rapids. In my trips to either park I ran a fair amount of rapids, though in most cases there were portage options.
3. Portages much more rustic to the point of near non-existence (depending on your route).
4. Occasional motorboat camps and traffic- even deep in the parks.
5. Logistics are more complex. Wakimi is often accessed by rail or float plane. Woodland Caribou has some road access but it can be rugged, again float plane use is not uncommon.
6. Campsites can be hard to find if you haven't been given intel.
 
11/10/2019 09:54PM  
I asked a related question on the WCPP forum last year and got some great responses. May be worth a read. Unfortunately I had to cancel my trip both last year and this year just before going so have no personal experience (yet). BWCA vs WCPP
 
jillpine
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11/10/2019 10:16PM  
Helpful! Thank you very much!
 
WHendrix
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11/11/2019 10:55AM  
A book you might find useful is Alone in a Canoe by Michael Kinziger. He has canoed solo in all of those places and writes about all of them.
 
MidwestFirecraft
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11/11/2019 12:00PM  
WHendrix: "A book you might find useful is Canoeing along by Michael Kinziger. He has canoed solo in all of those places and writes about all of them."

Tried looking up that title. Do you mean "Alone in a Canoe?"
 
dentondoc
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11/11/2019 05:04PM  
MidwestFirecraft: "
WHendrix: "A book you might find useful is Canoeing along by Michael Kinziger. He has canoed solo in all of those places and writes about all of them."

Tried looking up that title. Do you mean "Alone in a Canoe?""

Yes. That is the correct title.

In 2014 we both paddled Opasquia Provincial Park (extreme northwestern Ontario). I was in a party of 3 (in June) and he did it solo (in August)--the only paddlers in the park that year, so far as I know. We passed intel back and forth that year.

From the "BWCA vs WCPP" thread ... Marten has, hands down, the most experience in WCPP of any of the posters. Marten did Opasquia in 2013 ... and again, much intel was shared.

dd
 
hobbydog
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11/11/2019 09:15PM  
One difference between BWCA and the Ontario parks is the campsites. Smaller and very lightly used and for a solo it is pretty easy to find something that works. Never had an issue finding a site. Unlike the BWCA, you won’t have to compete for a site. WCPP has a lot of smaller water where wind is not as big of an issue. Biggest difference is solitude on a solo. In forty days of paddling I have only seen one other canoe and a couple of boats. It’s hard to find that in the BCWA, even in the off season.
 
WHendrix
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11/11/2019 09:15PM  
Thanks for clearing that up Doc. I don't know how I screwed it up so badly.
 
11/11/2019 10:54PM  
One of my biggest concerns when doing Wabakimi vs. WCPP and much less so for BWCA was what I might do if my car didn't start or I having to change a flat. The Wabakimi trail head can be hard to find and definitely more remote. You'll be walking a long while down a logging road dodging horse flies and those nasty biting bullfrog flies trying to get help! I packed a portable black-start battery charger, extra gas cans and duct tape. Just in case. A delorme Inreach is always standard gear wherever I go for any on-the-water emergencies.

Your level of planning and backups just has to increase as you move up to the more remote parks. Two is one and one is none in these instances.
 
jillpine
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11/12/2019 06:48AM  
As always, such great advice. Thanks.
The Alone in a Canoe book is packed with detail and description. It's been influential in turning my head farther north for next summer.
Thank you very much.

 
11/12/2019 05:28PM  
HighnDry: "One of my biggest concerns when doing Wabakimi vs. WCPP and much less so for BWCA was what I might do if my car didn't start or I having to change a flat. The Wabakimi trail head can be hard to find and definitely more remote. You'll be walking a long while down a logging road dodging horse flies and those nasty biting bullfrog flies trying to get help! I packed a portable black-start battery charger, extra gas cans and duct tape. Just in case. A delorme Inreach is always standard gear wherever I go for any on-the-water emergencies.


Your level of planning and backups just has to increase as you move up to the more remote parks. Two is one and one is none in these instances."


This is certainly an interesting and un-BWCA type issue; post trip contingency planning. From pretty much every BWCA entry point you just assume you toss your gear in your car and 15-45 minutes later you're ordering a beer and cheeseburger. I was planning to go into WCPP from Leano, and had not quite resolved what all to leave in the car as contingency. With two dogs, I was thinking of how to leave 1-2 days spare dog/human food, but also would not want to attract bears. Also it seems any extra gear that might be left in the vehicle might also attract potential trouble makers. Still not sure how to balance this.
 
jillpine
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11/12/2019 06:04PM  
Jaywalker: "
HighnDry: "One of my biggest concerns when doing Wabakimi vs. WCPP and much less so for BWCA was what I might do if my car didn't start or I having to change a flat. The Wabakimi trail head can be hard to find and definitely more remote. You'll be walking a long while down a logging road dodging horse flies and those nasty biting bullfrog flies trying to get help! I packed a portable black-start battery charger, extra gas cans and duct tape. Just in case. A delorme Inreach is always standard gear wherever I go for any on-the-water emergencies.



Your level of planning and backups just has to increase as you move up to the more remote parks. Two is one and one is none in these instances."



This is certainly an interesting and un-BWCA type issue; post trip contingency planning. From pretty much every BWCA entry point you just assume you toss your gear in your car and 15-45 minutes later you're ordering a beer and cheeseburger. I was planning to go into WCPP from Leano, and had not quite resolved what all to leave in the car as contingency. With two dogs, I was thinking of how to leave 1-2 days spare dog/human food, but also would not want to attract bears. Also it seems any extra gear that might be left in the vehicle might also attract potential trouble makers. Still not sure how to balance this. "

For sure. This is the kind of stuff I need to learn.
Maybe use an outfitter shuttle. Park the vehicle with them and get a ride to the put-in. Garminize when done? No slashed tires. No bear-torn vehicle also not sure if the golf alltrack can clear the running water on the way to leano.
 
11/13/2019 02:04PM  
I'm guessing my average travel speed might be a little slower in WCPP than BWCA . . . ?
 
jillpine
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11/13/2019 06:03PM  
boonie: "I'm guessing my average travel speed might be a little slower in WCPP than BWCA . . . ?"

Or not if the lakes are smaller and less windy, or portages are shorter / flatter. I think the thing that has me thinking the most (other than car damage or mechanical issue) is difficulty with portage location. In the Alone in a Canoe book, he talks about spending five or six hours on a single lake, trying to locate the portage and becoming quite lost. In an area where another canoe may not pass by for a long, long time, you can't rely on the ol' BWCA trick of "sit and fish until you see a flotilla, then you've found the portage".
 
11/13/2019 09:07PM  
Hey Jillpine, are you overlooking Quetico?
 
11/13/2019 09:48PM  
I was mostly thinking about finding the portage and less use/maintenance could make slower going too, especially off the main routes. I haven't read Alone in a Canoe, but have read several of Kinziger's trip reports at Canoe Stories . You'll find some other good ones there. Flying in/shuttling out or vice-versa might be nice . . .

 
jillpine
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11/14/2019 03:55AM  
TomT: "Hey Jillpine, are you overlooking Quetico? "

Hi Tom, not overlooking per say. Just starting to plan. What are your thoughts?
 
jillpine
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11/14/2019 04:07AM  
boonie: "I was mostly thinking about finding the portage and less use/maintenance could make slower going too, especially off the main routes. I haven't read Alone in a Canoe, but have read several of Kinziger's trip reports at Canoe Stories . You'll find some other good ones there. Flying in/shuttling out or vice-versa might be nice . . .


"

Thanks as always Boonie! Great link!
 
11/14/2019 07:44AM  
jillpine: "
TomT: "Hey Jillpine, are you overlooking Quetico? "

Hi Tom, not overlooking per say. Just starting to plan. What are your thoughts?
"


Well, your vehicle would stay safe if you went to an outfitter on Moose Lake. You could get a tow to Prairie Portage saving 2 & 1/2 hours of paddling. Check in at the Ranger there then there are loop possibilites east, north, or west. A good intro would be Agnes to Louisa then east along a chain of beautiful small lakes to the Falls Chain where you paddle upstream south to the Man Chain or the border lakes then back to Moose.

I wrote a report and also did this video for it.

Quetico solo 2013

 
ZaraSp00k
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11/14/2019 09:32AM  
boonie: "I was mostly thinking about finding the portage and less use/maintenance could make slower going too, especially off the main route

"


portages in WCPP & Wabakimi are nearly always near the river/stream flowing in/out, while true in BWCA as well, more so in the other two

that should be your first place to look if not sure, I'd say first go 50 yards in both directions, then repeat starting from river/stream, in fact most are usually within 50 feet, many just 5

do not assume just because you looked there previously, you can start where you left off, I learned this the hard way, I don't know how I missed it the first time, but I did, well actually I do, sun was in my eyes, and when I returned, it wasn't
 
jillpine
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11/14/2019 03:18PM  
ZaraSp00k: "
boonie: "I was mostly thinking about finding the portage and less use/maintenance could make slower going too, especially off the main route


"



portages in WCPP & Wabakimi are nearly always near the river/stream flowing in/out, while true in BWCA as well, more so in the other two


that should be your first place to look if not sure, I'd say first go 50 yards in both directions, then repeat starting from river/stream, in fact most are usually within 50 feet, many just 5


do not assume just because you looked there previously, you can start where you left off, I learned this the hard way, I don't know how I missed it the first time, but I did, well actually I do, sun was in my eyes, and when I returned, it wasn't"


Have you ever had to climb out, head into land about 5 yards and look around that way? Kinziger talks about doing this in WCPP. That's also the start of the near-death experience for one of the fellows in the Lost in the Wild story.

So I'm learning: get intel, be prepared for vehicle trauma and mishap, update my saws and knives. I already use an inReach.
 
11/14/2019 04:14PM  
Thanks, Zara - good to know, but confirms it'll probably be a little slower than BWCA, where I can spot at least 95% from quite some distance.
 
11/14/2019 07:29PM  
Very interesting topic jillpine, thanks for starting it. I have traveled In both BW and Wabakimi and want to get to WCPP. Lots of good advice.
 
gymcoachdon
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11/14/2019 10:09PM  
I did 2 years in BWCA, then a trip to Quetico, then WCPP, then back to Quetico. I wanted to do Wabakimi, but it didn't work out, and my son went with me this year to the Q, so that was great.
Fishing in WCPP is unbelievable. I mean it. Growing up in Indiana, I always wondered what it would have been like to fish and hunt before people had over fished, and removed habitat. Well, go to WCPP, and experience fishing as it was 200 years ago. I thought the BWCA had good fishing. Quetico gets the nod if you like smallmouth, not many lakes in WCPP have them.
Quetico has a lot less people than BWCA, but still has the striking beauty that you get in the BWCA. WCPP is beautiful, but in its own Boreal way. Jack pine and Black Spruce dominate, and there are lots of burns. Access is tougher in WCPP, using an outfitter may be your best option.

If you can only do one more trip, I would say to go to WCPP, but if you know you will be tripping for years, maybe a trip to Quetico, with no latrines and firegrates, a little tougher to find and walk portages, would be a good primer for the next year in WCPP.

Just my thoughts. You should do whatever sounds exciting, no bad choices here.
 
11/15/2019 03:23PM  
What about planning g differences like permits, fees? Permits - entry point specific, date specific, quota limitation, cost? Nightly camping fee?

What about crossing the border limitations . . . ? Food, gear?
 
gymcoachdon
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11/15/2019 09:26PM  
boonie: "What about planning g differences like permits, fees? Permits - entry point specific, date specific, quota limitation, cost? Nightly camping fee?


What about crossing the border limitations . . . ? Food, gear? "


I dealt with an outfitter for my WCPP trip, so he handled the permit, and I did a bucket list fly in/paddle out trip.
Fees are the same as Quetico if I remember correctly, meaning a daily fee instead of a one time fee like BWCA.
You need an Ontario Outdoors card and fishing license.
As far as quotas and entry points, the BWCAW gets about 200,000 visitors per year, Quetico gets approximately 25,000 per year. The last number I heard for WCPP was about 2,000 per year, so basically no issue getting in wherever, whenever you want.

Crossing the border I have been asked about firearms, (nope), tobacco (yes), alchohol (yes). Figure out how much alchohol you have in liters, I really confused the guy when I told him I had a pint. No, really, he went over it again and again...like half a liter I finally said, lol. Basically you can take enough to have a drink every night, no problem. Bigger group, buy extra when you get there maybe?
 
gymcoachdon
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11/15/2019 09:45PM  
Just found this:
1.5 liters of wine, or 1.14 liters (40 ounces) of liquor, or 24 cans or bottles of beer.
1 carton (200 cigarettes), up to 50 cigars, and 200g of loose tobacco

Those are amounts a US citizen can bring in "duty free". I had a bit more in my tobacco, but there were 2 of us in the car, so maybe that total is per person? Or he didn't want to bother...
 
11/15/2019 10:36PM  
Thanks, Don. I was thinking I'd heard somewhere that permits were unlimited and figured it was a daily fee like Quetico. I don't drink or smoke (anymore), so no problem there. It may be a one-time bucket list trip for me too. I'll have to see what works out.
 
11/16/2019 07:04PM  
For 2020, the interior camping fees for WCPP and Wabakimi and the northern Quetico entry points are $14.97/person/day. Entering Quetico through Prairie Portage or Cache Bay will cost $21.47/person/day. Entering Quetico through Lac La Croix will be $16.95/person/day.

Like the BWCAW, you choose an entry point for an Ontario parks reservation. Quetico has quotas for each entry point, but WCPP and Wabakimi have no such quotas.

WCPP allows canned food but not glass containers (Quetico bans both cans and glass).
 
jillpine
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11/16/2019 09:10PM  
TomT: "
jillpine: "
TomT: "Hey Jillpine, are you overlooking Quetico? "

Hi Tom, not overlooking per say. Just starting to plan. What are your thoughts?
"



Well, your vehicle would stay safe if you went to an outfitter on Moose Lake. You could get a tow to Prairie Portage saving 2 & 1/2 hours of paddling. Check in at the Ranger there then there are loop possibilites east, north, or west. A good intro would be Agnes to Louisa then east along a chain of beautiful small lakes to the Falls Chain where you paddle upstream south to the Man Chain or the border lakes then back to Moose.
I wrote a report and also did this video for it.
Quetico solo 2013
"

Thanks Tom. I read and enjoyed that trip report when I was planning my first solo. I read it again tonight. I really enjoy your photos and thoughtful reflections. Admittedly I have not given as much thought so far to Q primarily for a couple reasons. No quotas is really a draw. I'd like to visit a place like that at least once before I can't do a trip like that anymore. Also, I will have the time next summer whereas I never did before. Maybe I'll plan an early summer in Quetico and August in WCPP or wabakimi. Like Coach Don said, it'll be an adventure no matter what!
 
11/20/2019 08:35AM  
I think that it's mentioned above but also figure that locating portages will arguably be easiest in BWCA versus the other parks. Quetico's portages are fairly well-maintained and easier to locate with more portage crews passing through to clear and maintain the routes. WCPP has fewer of these resources and just by the nature of this higher-latitude park, they are a bit more difficult to locate and identify (versus a moose path for example). As stated above, one has to paddle closer to the lip of a falls or outflow to find a likely takeout in WCPP. Wabakimi is a step up in difficulty but similar thanks in no small part to the Wabakimi project's efforts to re-open many if not all of those portages. Just be prepared for the challenge of finding these---a good arbor saw will be key to getting through some of these paths.
 
11/20/2019 11:15AM  
boonie: "What about crossing the border limitations . . . ? Food, gear? "

The one time I went to WCPP, there was a ban on bringing eggs into Canada. Freeze-dried egg products were ok because they had been processed. I mention this just to make you aware that some items are temporarily banned because of health concerns.
 
11/20/2019 12:07PM  
Jillpine:
I want to encourage you to go to WCPP sooner rather than later. I don't know if your Golf Alltrack will clear the one gully that I remember on the way in to Leano, so check with the park office or maybe Goldseekers outfitter and let them know the wheelbase and clearance. My guess is that you may be ok. My one and only trip: WCPP 2015 Leano to Haven
 
hobbydog
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11/20/2019 06:55PM  
Lots of worries about access to WCPP but nobody has mentioned going in from the west side. Garner Lake, Wallace Lake and Tulapi Lake EPs are all in campgrounds and I have never had an issue. The west side gets a lot less traffic and there are lots of looping options. I have never had a real issue finding a portage. Sometimes you have to look a little but the maps are pretty accurate. Never spent more than 10-15 minutes trying to find one. One time I took the old portage which took some time to figure out but was one of the better memories from the trip. I think 10-20 years ago it may have been harder but with better maps, gps, online resources and high quality trip reports it takes a lot of the mystery out of it. For me, some of the attraction is the mystery.
 
jillpine
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11/20/2019 07:06PM  
Ok, if $ and time didn't matter, would you choose:
a) fly-in/shuttle (point to point)
b) loop/out and back/ lollipop
Either wcpp or wabakimi.
Solo. Fishing is a side-gig.

 
11/20/2019 07:49PM  
I'd fly in to WCCP and paddle out. I've never been to either but it seems there is more info on WCCP.
 
11/20/2019 08:39PM  
If neither time nor money constrained me, I'd fly in and paddle out (I would have more control in this scenario vs doing the reverse) or I would do a loop. I would not want to do an out-and-back. A pt-to-pt with shuttles on both ends would be ok, too. My preference is to see more of the park and not retrace any part of my route. If you have the opportunity to fly, take it, because it is so much fun.
 
hobbydog
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11/21/2019 08:43AM  
Fly in cans paddle out is the way to go. This may require some shuttling on the return leg but well worth it. In 2015 I flew in to Artery Lake and paddled WCPP from top to bottom and out the Bird River. Adventure Air shuttled me The last 40 miles back to Lac du Bonnet. It was by far my best trip ever. There is nothing like being dropped off and watching the plane take off. As the sound fades, things become real really fast. I plan on flying into Artery again this year and padding back out to Wallace Lake.

I have never been to Wabakimi but from what I have read it’s climate is influenced by Lake Superior and is much wetter than WCPP. More bugs too. I have never had an issue with bugs in WCPP. I much prefer the fire driven landscape of WCPP.
 
jillpine
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11/21/2019 10:53AM  
hobbydog: "Fly in cans paddle out is the way to go. This may require some shuttling on the return leg but well worth it. In 2015 I flew in to Artery Lake and paddled WCPP from top to bottom and out the Bird River. Adventure Air shuttled me The last 40 miles back to Lac du Bonnet. It was by far my best trip ever. There is nothing like being dropped off and watching the plane take off. As the sound fades, things become real really fast. I plan on flying into Artery again this year and padding back out to Wallace Lake.


I have never been to Wabakimi but from what I have read it’s climate is influenced by Lake Superior and is much wetter than WCPP. More bugs too. I have never had an issue with bugs in WCPP. I much prefer the fire driven landscape of WCPP. "


I've really enjoyed your trip reports and photos. Thank you very much.
 
11/21/2019 11:56AM  
Ausable: "
boonie: "What about crossing the border limitations . . . ? Food, gear? "

The one time I went to WCPP, there was a ban on bringing eggs into Canada. Freeze-dried egg products were ok because they had been processed. I mention this just to make you aware that some items are temporarily banned because of health concerns."


Thanks, I was thinking there were some foods I couldn't cross the border with in 2014 when I drove back through Canada, but couldn't remember for sure. I know we had to stop a couple of years ago just going from OR to CA. I'd be taking dehydrated and packaged foods along with nuts on the trip, but usually have some apples, PB, etc. while traveling. Something to check right before I leave I guess.
 
11/21/2019 12:17PM  
What requirements are there for taking a canoe across the border to use in Canada?
 
donr
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11/21/2019 01:47PM  
Absolutely none, other than to have it fastened securely to your vehicle. :)

Although to be legal while on the water, you need to have a bailer, a signaling device such as a whistle, and a 50 ft throw line, in addition to a PFD.

I have visited WCPP 4 times, with the last 3 being solo trips. If you have questions, please feel free to ask. Marten is probably the most knowledgable on the board, but I would suggest you search Wintertrekker on YouTube for some informative videos in addition to Martin's (TheNorthwoodsman1).
 
11/21/2019 02:13PM  
Thanks, don. Do you still need the throw line if you're solo . . . ? You can't throw it to yourself . . . ;)

Any concern about invasive species ? I saw a lot of that on my drive across country this year.
 
donr
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11/21/2019 03:37PM  
You still need the throw line. Ontario law, not a park requirement. And who will hear a whistle? When I was out for 9 days in September, I did not see anyone else the entire time. BTW, REI sells a combination bailer/throw line with a whistle.

The only invasive species I know about are small mouth bass, and they are limited to a small portion of the park. You are not allowed to bring live bait into Canada, and I would not want the bother anyway.
 
11/21/2019 04:52PM  
Thanks, I figured that. I probably wouldn't hear the whistle even if I was there and had my hearing aids in! ;)
 
gymcoachdon
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11/22/2019 12:32AM  
OK, I did some research on the Ontario boating laws before my first Quetico trip. (Disclaimer: Please do your own research...don't blame me if you get in trouble! lol)
If you are bringing a canoe that is registered outside of Ontario, you didn't have to meet all those requirements. No, I don't remember where I read that. I have not taken a throw line with me on any of my Canadian trips, but I understand that outfitters supply them when they rent canoes.

My trips are solo, so I have no one to throw me the line anyway...although i might find another paddler in need.

I did a fly in/paddle out trip in WCPP, with a boat shuttle on Red Lake at the end. It was a great option since my time was limited by the 1000 mile drive to and from WCPP. This gave me the opportunity to get into the heart of the park even though i only had 1 week for my trip.
 
gymcoachdon
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11/22/2019 12:50AM  
I found this:

Safety Equipment Requirements
Foreign pleasure craft (pleasure craft that are licensed or registered in a country other than Canada) need to comply with equipment requirements of the country in which the vessel is usually kept.

If you are not a resident of Canada and are using a pleasure craft licensed or registered in Canada, all of the required safety equipment must meet Canadian safety requirements. However, you may opt to bring your own PFD for your own personal use.

Here:
link
 
donr
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11/22/2019 08:29AM  
Thanks for digging on this. In my research I did not find the caveat about safety equipment only required where the craft is registered. The only time I have run across officials was in Manitoba on the Bloodvein, and they did check to make sure we had throw lines..... and barbless hooks.

YMMV
 
11/22/2019 10:10AM  
If you rent a canoe from a Canadian outfitter, do not assume that it will be supplied with the CN-required equipment. The canoe I rented for WCPP had no such equipment. Be prepared by bringing your own stuff.
 
11/22/2019 02:58PM  
Yes, thanks, but to muddy the water even further . . . my state does not require registration of small non-motorized watercraft.
 
mpeebles
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11/22/2019 05:24PM  
I've taken canoes into Canada on five different trips and was never asked anything about registration even though WI does not require it.

The difference between the parks was well covered above. I've been in all four parks albeit in Q and Wabakimi only once and my only solo was a two weeker in WCPP. If you choose WCPP I would strongly suggest talking to Claire at the Ontario Parks Office in Red Lake. This was the first year that I didn't use an outfitter and the permitting process/fees were a breeze at the office. Additionally, Claire is an expert about the park itself, will bring you up to speed on any recent changes and go over your route. Just make arrangements that they are open at the time you need them. I wish I would have taken advantage of Claire's expertise earlier.

As far as how you get into and out of the park......I prefer to fly in/fly out. Life is just easier that way. My experience has been that the flight folks are pretty flexible as far as where and when you get picked up as you may want to stay a little longer/shorter or paddle a different route. The InReach will take care of the communication. Just need to make sure the lakes are large enough for a plane to get in and out of and talk to them beforehand about potential changes.

Anyway, have a great adventure!



 
11/23/2019 09:32AM  
jillpine: "Ok, if $ and time didn't matter, would you choose:
a) fly-in/shuttle (point to point)
b) loop/out and back/ lollipop
Either wcpp or wabakimi.
Solo. Fishing is a side-gig.


"


I've flown in and paddled out the Gammon River system in WCPP with a group and I'd say it was a great experience. We took out at Johnson and shuttled back to Red Lake. It took a lot of the logistical difficulty out of getting to the west end of the park. Although, I usually paddle in/paddle out on my trips.
 
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