I am in the process of purchasing gear for 2021 BWCA trip. I am going to buy two packs. My initial thought was to get one CCS Guide and one CCS Pioneer. After reading some threads on here, I am now thinking maybe I should drop one of the CCS packs and get a waterproof pack such as a Sealine pro dry 120L What say you? These packs will not be for food. I will be using an outfitter for canoe and food.

Thanks for the help. This board is a wealth of knowledge.

I'd go CCS for both and use a liner and waterproof stuff sacks to keep gear dry. The CCS packs are way more comfortable, artisan crafted and will last near forever.

Banksiana: "I'd go CCS for both and use a liner and waterproof stuff sacks to keep gear dry. The CCS packs are way more comfortable, artisan crafted and will last near forever."

I second that emotion.

I have tripped with CCS packs eight years now and like them every time. Over the years, I added waterproof stuff and compression bags and still use a construction garbage bag liner. Nothing has been wet yet. I think the weight and comfort and durability just outweigh any waterproof bag I have used in the past. I used to kayak more and at least one bag was strapped to the deck.

Thanks for the input. If I keep with the original plan of two CCS packs, should I keep it at one of each or just get two of the CCS Guides?

Lots of good advice so far... I have a couple Granite Gear Quetico Packs. Also very solid gear.

We have all Sealine packs, five - one for each person in our family, and we love them. The nicer versions with good hip and shoulder straps are much better than the cheaper ones.

With a contractor garbage bag as a liner and some items organized into their own dry bags of various, appropriate sizes, I see absolutely no need for a waterproof pack and much prefer the quality of my CCS packs. I enjoy the pride of having supported Dan's craftsmanship as well.

I have one Guide and one short-torso Explorer. I can't imagine needing two Guides unless the intent is to pack like 4+ people's worth of gear into them.

Thanks for the info. Mostly will be for two people, occasionally three.

kbad: "Thanks for the input. If I keep with the original plan of two CCS packs, should I keep it at one of each or just get two of the CCS Guides? "

Just my two cents, but frankly, the Guide pack is absolutely huge. I don't know what you plan to pack, but you can fit most anything in a Pioneer. Remember, the larger the pack, the more one is tempted to fill it.

Personally, I own two Pioneer packs, one Explorer pack and one Bushcrafter pack. Note that I have not purchased a Guide pack. I also own an Ostrom Outdoors pack which is larger than the Pioneer, but I don't carry that one. I outfit my friends when we trip every year in July and one of my large friends carries the Ostrom.

kbad: "Thanks for the input. If I keep with the original plan of two CCS packs, should I keep it at one of each or just get two of the CCS Guides? "

Buy a Pioneer pack first. Live with it for a bit and you'll likely find that it is sized perfectly. You might find two Pioneers to be the perfect combination.

Thanks for the replies. I will buy the Pioneer first and see how much of our gear will fit.

A little more input about the Guide. I'd have two Pioneers instead of the Explorer + Guide, but there are two reasons I didn't. My girlfriend is small and, to be blunt, not very strong. Many of our trips use our 2-person Big Agnes bag and double-wide BA Hinman sleeping pad. Those are far from the lightest or most compact, and we went with the Guide to be sure to have no problem packing them which allowed us to shrink the other pack for her. If it weren't for the bulky stuff like that that we use on many trips, we'd do two Pioneers or maybe even a Pioneer and Explorer.

It's good advice, too, If you can, get one Pioneer first, then see where you'd need to go from there.

Thank you for the input. If I get the Guide pack my son, 25 years old, will carry that. :) My thoughts on buying the Guide were similar to yours. Put the bulky items - sleeping bags pads and tent - in it.

I have a CCS Pioneer and a Rucksack. Unless you have a lot of bulky items to carry, the Pioneer should be plenty big. Granted, I mostly go solo, but I wish I had bought the Explorer instead of the Pioneer.

One trip we had a medical situation that removed two participants the morning of our entry. We were going to have three in one canoe, two in another, and me in my solo. That changed to two tandem canoes and my canoe stayed on the truck for the week. While consolidating gear, we decided to see if we could single portage, and I bet I said, "I still have room in my pack" five times. lol

In the end, we double portaged because that Pioneer, when full, was too heavy for me to carry comfortably with the canoe! As a matter of fact, if anyone wants to buy a new Explorer or has a nice used one, I will trade them my like-new, blue Pioneer for it. It is like new, not because it hasn't been used, but because the four trips I have taken with it have done zero wear on it! I have a narrow canoe so having the Explorer would be a better fit.

Thanks for the input. I have already decided we will double portage. I read someone say on here. "My ability and strength to carry a lot of weight has decreased, but my ability to buy better gear has increased." But even with better gear we will double.

I've shown this photo before, but here are my two CCS Pioneers packed for an 8-day trip. No other gear is loose in the canoe. My other two buddies had a similar setup in their canoe. Four people - two canoes - four Pioneer packs.

Looks like you have the set up nailed. thanks for the picture.

I have exactly the configuration you are considering - 120L sealine and a Pioneer. We trip for 9-11 days and move almost every day. We like to do a lot of miles, and while we haven't done a PMA yet, we aren't shy about long/rough portages.

In terms of comfort up to about 55#, definitely the CCS. I wouldn't carry any more weight, as it doesn't have a real framesheet (but you could easily and cheaply build one and install it in the zippered compartment). It has top/bottom grab handles that make loading and unloading almost too easy. It also fits just right in front of the stern paddler (me). You will need a liner (contractor garbage bag) as this bag will allow water intrusion.

The CCS can be packed in a way that allows a canoe to rest 50/50 on your shoulders and the pack. It takes a little practice to get dialed in but it's not too hard. This pack also has a cavernous top pocket that is great for carrying rain gear/ squeeze filter / lunch with room left over.

This is the pack that I carry while I portage the canoe. I'm young by BWCA standards (and a kid by the standards of this board), but I can happily go a mile with canoe and 55#'s in the pack without stopping. It's a GREAT piece of specialized canoeing kit.

The Sealline is what my wife carries. This pack is taller/skinnier than the CCS, so not great for carrying a canoe. That said, the suspension is GREAT, and allows for a good range of height adjustment. This thing is a beast, and we start each trip with all of 70#+ in this pack. I have to help her put it on, but it carries well enough that she can go further, and faster than I can. I'm sure we could add more weight to this pack, but I'd be concerned about her knees if we did so.

The Sealline isn't quite purpose built like the CCS, and isn't as nice to load/unload, and doesn't have any outer pockets. There is a small fiddle factor loading it behind the bow paddler, as it doesn't fit as nice as a CCS, and it can really throw off the trim if it's off to one side too far. It is tough as nails, and we have used it for 5 trips with very little wear and tear (we are NOT gentle with it either!). This is a GREAT general marine pack.

I highly recommend both.

I hate packs made from fabric - of almost any kind. I have some I would give away.

For a few years, I have used nothing but waterproof dry packs. They just keep everything, well, dry, including your person when portaging. Nothing worse than picking up and putting on a water soaked fabric pack for a portage and getting water soaked yourself.

I'll take the dry packs any day.

I was super on the fence about buying a second CCS pack. I had bought a Pioneer a while back and have put many trips on it's hip belt already. It's the best bag you can get for the BWCA. I also have a giant dry bag style backpack in the Cabelas BWCA Pack, not sure if they sell them anymore. Basically the CCS is much better. It dries out so fast I don't even worry about it getting wet, I just replace the plastic pack liner ($5) each year and know that my stuff is dry. The Cabelas Pack on the other hand I dread it's going to get a hole in it and be useless sooner or later. Don't buy a dry bag style backpack, just buy a fabric bag and put a pack liner in it.

Back to being on the fence about a second CCS pack, I'll tell you why. If you buy two CCS packs that's a lot of backpacks that you can only really use for the BWCA. I like to travel, or rather I like the idea that I could travel if I wanted to, so I would rather have one CCS pack, and one dedicated backpacking backpack

Lets say I go in a group of ppl to the BWCA, no matter how you stick it someone's NOT carrying the canoe. Whoever carries the canoe should wear the CCS pack, it's lower on the shoulders (worse for your back) and stays out of the canoes way, and fits in the canoe like a dream. And whoever doesn't carry the canoe can use my dedicated backpacking backpack, in this case Osprey Aether Pro 65, it's sits higher on the back (better for your back), and can be packed with as much stuff as the CCS Pioneer and will haul more weight more comfortably than a portage pack, except it may be more technical to pack.

I'm a gear guy, I like to have it all. If I were to go on the Superior Hiking Trail, I wouldn't want to carry a fully loaded CCS Pack over my Aether Pro. The Aether is THAT much more comfortable, CCS packs are amazing, but they don't hold a candle to a true dedicated hiking backpack if your trek is over land.

Btw, Osprey has a "lifetime, no BS warranty" on it's better bags. That's kinda what sold me on my Portage Pack/Hiking Backpack combo idea. Planning on a short backpacking trip in the Black Hills this next year!

Blatz: "

Banksiana: "I'd go CCS for both and use a liner and waterproof stuff sacks to keep gear dry. The CCS packs are way more comfortable, artisan crafted and will last near forever."

I second that emotion."

Third!

I also recommend going with two Pioneers over a Guide and a Pioneer, but it depends a lot on trip length and how much gear you like to bring. The Pioneer is a big pack. The Guide is huge!

Btw not trying to say don't buy CCS products at all. I just bought my 3rd CCS tarp, even though I only ever put one to work at a time. Lol

On the topics of backpacks, though, I find a lot of value in having the benefits of both types of backpacks in one trip. If you ever plan a trip on foot, you'll enjoy having the right tool for the job.

GearGuy: "If ever you plan a trip on foot, you'll enjoy having having the right tool for the job. "

This is actually a great point. Just about every trip I do these days is with the canoe, but I'm approaching ever increasing odds of doing trips on foot, and I am not going to want to reach for the CCS packs for that.

KarlBAndersen1: "Nothing worse than picking up and putting on a water soaked fabric pack for a portage and getting water soaked yourself. "

Karl, your point is valid on putting on a wet pack.

You'll note in my photo above, it shows my packs with the straps and part of the pack that goes against my back and laying on the bottom of the canoe. I did that for the photo. The packs are more photogenic facing up. :) Normally, I lay them face down for the exact reason you state. It keeps the back of the pack from laying in any bilge water. It's also easier to grab the packs out of the canoe when they're laying straps-up.

With all that said, a slightly wet (damp) pack is nothing. A vinyl pack can be wet, too. PIck 'em up and head down the trail.

Thank you for your input. Your first hand experience with the exact setup is invaluable.

Thank you for your input. These will be specifically for canoeing. I don't do any backpacking trips, If I take a trip I will be on the water. I also have a internal fram backback that I used to use in the smoky mountains.

Kbad,

I am in agreement with many of the others in the thread that you can't go wrong with two CCS Pioneer packs. I now own one Pioneer plus three Explorer packs (and several other pieces of CCS gear) and there are some very easy ways to keep things dry as has been mentioned.

I would offer one other possibility. Cabela's/Bass Pro Shop makes a waterproof pack that is much more comfortabe than the few SeaLine packs I've used on two different trips. But I think I was using their entry line pack. I had both the small and large version of the Cabela's packs, but ended up selling the larger size simple because it was too big. Still have the smaller version and it does come in very handy. If you want to check it out, here's the link:

Cabela's BWCA pack

Banksiana: "I'd go CCS for both and use a liner and waterproof stuff sacks to keep gear dry. The CCS packs are way more comfortable, artisan crafted and will last near forever."

Two Pioneer Packs. Have used this configuration for years and have yet to be disappointed. I double line and have never had an issue with wet gear, and that includes a spill where everything went overboard, but we do not talk about that...

Thanks you both for the input. My dad has decided to come along, so I may be back to the guide and the pioneer, we want all our gear and cloths in 2 packs, and 1 pack for food. I just bought a 3 person tent, will now be looking for a 4 person tent. Or use the 3 person and a 1 person tent.

I bought a CCS Guide pack and a Pioneer pack last year. The Guide is huge - it holds more gear than my old #4 Duluth pack.

In hindsight, I probably should have just purchased two Pioneer packs, but at least I now have enough pack space to easily outfit a crew of six. I'd try to sell my four Duluth packs, but maybe I should just pass them on to my kids (when the time comes).

On my last week long solo trip. I got everything including food in an Explorer pack. If that puts things in perspective

My daughter and I started going to BWCA/Quetico/WCPP when she was 15, she is 23 now. We take two solo canoes and two packs. First couple years we had a big Cabelas Boundary Waters pack and a Kondos 2 30L barrel pack.
We moved to a CCS Guide pack for all the "soft" stuff. tent, tarp, pads, sleeping bags, clothes, etc. We also went to a single 60L CCS quad pocket barrel pack for all the food and kitchen gear. This setup has worked very well for us. I carry the canoes, she carries the packs.
One year I went with a buddy and carried the Cabelas pack. That was the last trip that pack ever made. I swore never again would I subject myself or my daughter to that thing. The CCS packs have served us very well. We go on trips up to 14 days long.
We also bring a Watershed satchel or backpack for personal items, camera, etc..
I've gone on trips with two other guys, all in solo canoes, and went to three packs, three canoes. I don't pack particularly light or compact. One of these days I'm going to do a solo trip and see how or if I can put everything in one pack!

Joe