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02/12/2020 01:17PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Being one of the more BWCA experienced dads in my son's metro area scout troop I have been heavily involved in planning. I already have a few potential routes in mind but always open to ideas I have not thought of.

At this time we do not have a firm idea about the age/experience level of the group, which is making things a little tricky. It could be a few 16 and 17 year olds gung ho to travel and explore and fish or a bunch of 11 and 12 year olds that will start complaining 30 minutes into the first paddle.

We most likely will be renting canoes and potential some gear through an outfitter. Ideally we can find one that offers bunkhouses for the night before the trip. We are thinking a 5 day/4 night trip, driving up on a Wednesday afternoon, getting on the water Thursday morning and ending on Monday in time for lunch and the drive home.

At this time we are looking to get our entry point permit and trying to decide where we want to go. Here is a list of things we are looking for in entry point -

- Supported by an outfitter, either leaving from their dock or drive/tow from there. Separate starting and ending points an option.
- Variety of route options and lengths, including "bail out" options if it becomes apparent the planned route is too challenging for the group.
- Opportunity to travel most if not all days. We want to expose the boys to the traveling aspect of the BWCA with setting up and taking down camp every day or nearly every day.
- Of course a route that offers a good variety (big and small lakes, rivers, island campsites, fishing, hiking) would be ideal.

For example, a route I have done before would be to go through Voyageur Canoe Outfitters - get a tow up to American Point, and travel through Ester, Knife, Ogish, Alpine, Seagull and canoe up the river back to the outfitter. I fear it may be a little long but from the same entry point could shorten it considerable by going through Redrock to Alpine.

Thanks and appreciate any advice.
 
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02/12/2020 02:27PM  
The next scout group I lead will go through Clearwater. If you wanted a shorter route maybe East Bearskin.
02/12/2020 03:07PM  
The Granite River could be fun for your group, and given your timetable you'd have opportunity for a layover day or two since the entire route can be paddled in a day if you're fast & light.

My son's troop is going up in July also, but we're going to the opposite side of the park from you.... EP14 & EP16. We don't let recently crossed-over Scouts go as they most likely do not have any sort of prior experience or training in any of the skills needed for a wilderness trip. As the trip leader I also tend to want the Scouts to have an aquatics merit badge, wilderness survival, or first aid.

Have a great time!
straighthairedcurly
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02/12/2020 03:08PM  
You could get a Missing Link entry and use Tuscarora Lodge and Outfitters. You can launch right from their place on Round Lake and return there.

Lots of trip choices from there:
1) Beginner: Do 1 portage in, 1 portage out by just base camping on Missing Link.
2) Beginner/Intermediate: Do a small loop that takes you out via Cross Bay Lake to Ham Lake (just a short walk back to Round Lake or have them pick you up there)
3) Intermediate: Do a hard core trip that takes you into Tuscarora Lake to the west or takes you east over to Long Island Lake.


02/12/2020 05:36PM  
Thanks for the input so far! Very helpful!

A couple of notes -
We are not set on which side we are going to. I have been on trips covering a good percentage of the BWCA and tend toward the gunflint side but there are some reasons we may go out of Ely.

AmarilloJim, could you describe your Clearwater route? I looked at that area a little bit and I have used Hungry Jack outfitters before. I loved a short trip I did to Duncan once but can't see how that works for any type of loop.

02/12/2020 06:23PM  
Cricket..one thing you don't say that might lend some clarity - size of group ?

Here is a trip report out of Clearwater that, with some possible small variations, might work well for you. It does include one night basecamp but with a pretty much full day day trip to keep them busy...and the plus is that daytrip is to one of the more scenic spots in the BWCA...Johnson Falls. In warm weather they could have a blast at the swimming hole below the lower falls.

Note the stop on the way up...seems like something they might enjoy. Also note the walk back to Clearwater from the endpoint landing which is easier than it sounds. The whole group could go or just a couple. Flour Lake is also a great place to spend a night, either before or after a trip. You could use Clearwater as your outfitter and launch from their dock. Pretty sure they have bunkhouse facilities and They also serve an amazing breakfast that would probably be a hit with your group. We only camped at two lakes but there are some other good ones nearby if you want to move most every day (east of Alder).



Clearwater entry
02/13/2020 06:40AM  
Regarding the size of the group, that is one of the unknowns. I am assuming we will have a full or close to full group. There was an informal poll taken a few weeks ago and about a dozen or so scouts raised their hands, but historically that number ends up cut in half by it's time to commit. 6 Boys and 2 Adults is a good guess on the group size.
02/13/2020 07:37AM  
straighthairedcurly: "You could get a Missing Link entry and use Tuscarora Lodge and Outfitters. You can launch right from their place on Round Lake and return there.


Lots of trip choices from there:
1) Beginner: Do 1 portage in, 1 portage out by just base camping on Missing Link.
2) Beginner/Intermediate: Do a small loop that takes you out via Cross Bay Lake to Ham Lake (just a short walk back to Round Lake or have them pick you up there)
3) Intermediate: Do a hard core trip that takes you into Tuscarora Lake to the west or takes you east over to Long Island Lake.



"

Clearwater-Mountain-Moose-Fowl-Pine-Caribou
Clearwater-Caribou-Moon-Alder-Pine-Clearwater(need to go down the length of Clearwater)
East Bearskin-Alder-Pine-Caribou-Moon
Plenty of hiking options in these areas also
IndyScouters
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02/14/2020 07:35PM  
Cricket67 - Our Scout Troop went out of Rockwood on Poplar Lake (EP 47) in 2018 - two groups, with two different approaches. One (Mine) was a basecamp and day trip group based on Gaskin lake, took in a lot of the surrounding lakes, and focused more on the fishing, swimming, camping aspects. The other group, lead by my two sons (Both aged out Eagles with trips under their belts with me in the past) with older Scouts that wanted more adventure. They did a big loop out of Poplar with one 22 mile day. They wanted to see as much of the area as they could and pushed fairly well but they did do a layover, so they didn't get burned out. We are going back this July and taking 3 groups - the excitement is unbelievable. This year I am taking a newbie group through East Bearskin, Johnson falls and ending on Clearwater, not a long distance trip, but should be awesome anyway. Another group wants to focus on fishing, they may not get past Horseshoe or Gaskin, that's okay. The last group of 8 includes the long range boys that want to put in at Cross bay, head south to Brule, work their way to loop Winchel and exit through Banadad and the big long portage into Poplar, close to 80 miles maybe more if they add a couple of optional loops. I have been on many "Scout" or "youth" trips over the last 40 years that I can generally judge what the kids will like and where they will fit in our group dynamics, so I tend to be real honest and don't hold back on what they should expect and what we will expect - never been disappointed yet. It always amazes me at the end of a trip how much closer and bonded the groups become. I can also say that we have just really hit it off with Rockwood in the past but I know other outfitters will do whatever they can to assist you and make your trip special. Clearwater Outfitters has a PodCast called Tumblehome that is very good and has tons of great information - they are just up the Gunflint trail from Rockwood. Most Outfitters will do partial to full outfitting and charge accordingly. And, a lot of outfitters give a discount to Scout/Church groups. For us coming out of Indianapolis it just makes more sense to bring the minimum with us and fully outfit. But, whatever works best for you is obviously the right way to do it. One of the things I love about the Gunflint Trail area is it's the only area I have seen Moose, Bear and Wolf. I did a bunch of trips in my youth out of Ely and the Gunflint - I just fell in love with some of the palisades and wildlife I saw in the Eastern section and now that I'm getting older it's become a habit! I wish you the best and I am so glad that you are introducing another group of youth to such an amazing area that I personally consider one of my favorite places to enjoy nature. If you have any questions, please reach out!

IndyScouter - Jerry

02/14/2020 09:54PM  
The two that came to mind for me have been mentioned - routes from Rockwood Outfitters and those from Tuscorora Outfitters.
Tuscorora Outfitters, I would not do Missing Link as an entry. Too rugged and long. Instead do Brandt or Cross Bay. The nice thing here is that you can make a lot of route adjustments. You can shorten or lengthen your route and get a lot of interesting lakes.
With Rockwood, you have a very nice fishing area, potential moose sightings, but mostly smaller lakes. Nice paddling. I personally like the area. It is a smaller area to explore unless you really want to break out of the immediate area.
rdricker
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02/14/2020 10:37PM  
I'm going for my third time to the Northern Tier Atikokan base with my yougest daughter's Troop this time. I strongly encourage you to get maps, gather suggestions like you are here and then present it to the youth to plan. Discuss what they might want to see (falls, rapids, solitude, etc) , where they might want to go...and how much paddling they want to do. They will be fairly limited on planning some aspects of the travel there and back, but I encourage you letting them do the route planning with mentoring. You may already plan on that, but thought that I'd throw it out there.
02/15/2020 09:24AM  
Dreaded double post.
02/15/2020 09:24AM  
To avoid backing out by campers, get $100.00 (non- refundable) well in advance of your trip. I would suggest March 10 since it is sorta late to get money by March 1. We had no cancellations for a crew of 18 scouts/parents split into 2 different routes when we collected up front cash. Final payment for all money needed should be 30 to 45 days out from your departure date. "S**t or get off the pot" works whether scouts or non-scout campers. I collect more with adults to insure real interest from them.

Whatever date you decide, it should be a firm final date to enroll, no exceptions. After the first year, we had no problems and the cash comes in on time. Less problems for you. The departure date must also be firm if you are collecting cash in advance.
IndyScouters
member (41)member
  
02/15/2020 09:51AM  
bwcadan: "To avoid backing out by campers, get $100.00 (non- refundable) well in advance of your trip. I would suggest March 10 since it is sorta late to get money by March 1. We had no cancellations for a crew of 18 scouts/parents split into 2 different routes when we collected up front cash. Final payment for all money needed should be 30 to 45 days out from your departure date. "S**t or get off the pot" works whether scouts or non-scout campers. I collect more with adults to insure real interest from them.


Whatever date you decide, it should be a firm final date to enroll, no exceptions. After the first year, we had no problems and the cash comes in on time. Less problems for you. The departure date must also be firm if you are collecting cash in advance. "


Absolutely good advice! I forgot to mention that we also start over a year out planning but put the "Put up or shut up" $100 paid (Non-refundable) deposit due by January 1st of the trip year. That gives us the funds to get the permits, make the Outfitter deposit and usually there is enough to book accomodations for the trip up and back. Two months before we leave we verify everyone has paid in their share and if not we start "reminding" them (okay, we are persistent!). Works for us. Good luck! IndyScouter
bombinbrian
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02/15/2020 10:44AM  
I personally like the Mudro entry point on the Ely side. You have so many options.

You could go Fourtown, Boot, Fairy, Gun, Moosecamp and back the Moosecamp River. From the same entry you could go down the Horse River to LBWF and up to Crooked, Down out of Friday Bay and pick one of two routes back from there. I'm taking a group of 5 on that route in Late June, a couple of which have never made a trip.

I have an outfitter that I use up there that I'd recommend, if you want to email me. I'm in the Twin Cities too, if you wnt to chat.
02/16/2020 08:05PM  
Again, thank you all so much for your replies! All much appreciated...especially the detailed response by Indy!
VoyageurNorth
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02/17/2020 02:43PM  
AmarilloJim, you stated you may have a full group but have had 12+ show an interest. One thing you may want to consider is deciding on an entry (don't take too long or you'll have to settle) and maybe reserving two permits?

My reasoning is that what if you do find you have 10+? Will you have to tell someone they can't go? If you have two permits, you only spend $6.00 more to reserve the 2nd one. You can cancel the "extra" permit if you don't need it or if you don't know more than 72 hours before the trip (permit rules on refunds), you can get both permits issued and still camp at one campsite together as long as you are 9 or less and 4 or less watercraft. I have told Scout leaders this and it has often been helpful. You do get last minute cancellations but you also can find someone finds a way to go after all. I agree with at least some kind of deposit per person since it is more likely people will let you know enough ahead of time if they can't go because you can give them a cut-off date.

If you are going early July (just before the 4th), you may have a few more choices for entry points since it is a slower time of year & starting around July 8th, more people are starting their trips. Midweek is a good idea too as more people start on Mondays and Saturdays.

If you come the Ely way, you could take the Scouts to the International Wolf Center, the North American Bear Center (both have live animals), the Dorothy Molter Museum and other places. All very convenient if you stay in town where they are located.



02/26/2020 07:09PM  
After some discussion we have narrowed down our list. We are down to 3 entry points and hope to make a final decision this week. Again you all have been very helpful...any additional advice would be very welcome.

At this time it looks like we will have two groups of about 6 each. We are going to limit this trip to scouts that are 13yo or older or have good camping background. There will be 4 or 5 adults split between the two groups and we will going in Thursday morning coming out Monday morning. Sounds like there is strong interest in getting in some decent fishing. Wildlife, scenery, and waterfalls were also mentioned...roughly in that order. The boys we talked to are not afraid of some longer portages and covering some distance.

- First option is Magnetic Lake, doing the Granite River. We would most likely stay the night before at Voyageur CO, have them give us a ride to Gunflint and we would end at their dock on the Seagull river.

- Second possible entry point is Lizz/Swamp. We would stay the night before at Rockwood and leave and return to their dock. Actual route to be determine by the scouts going. On this one the two groups could potential spread out a bit.

- Third option of entry point is Brant Lake. Here we could stay at Tuscarora Lodge and leave and return to their dock. We might also consider staying at either Seagull or Rockwell, having them bring us to this entry point and then doing a through trip back.

I know there are a lot more options but the adults decided just to narrow it down so we could make a decision and move forward with the permits.
kuddus87
member (10)member
  
02/27/2020 11:32AM  
I did this route last year and enjoyed it immensely. Stay at Snowbank Lodge and Outfitters. Their rooms are quite nice and affordable and you can launch from their dock by rolling out of bed. Snowbank is huge if you are looking for that Big Lake Energy. Depending on your group you have a few options:

- Do a loop out to Ima/Thomas through Dissapointment and back through ashigan and boot. Ample opportunities to make "I'm a Lake" dad jokes on Ima.

- If you want a bit more travel/challenge, you can do the loop through boot, ensign, newfound, moose and back to snowbank.

- You can also do a one way Snowbank to Lake One through Thomas, Alice and the numbered lakes.

P.S. despite the name, Disappointment has been my most productive fishing lake.
02/27/2020 11:34AM  
I have used VCO in the past and their facilities are good. Gunflint Lodge & Outfitters is also an outfit I have used in the past when I did a Magnetic River trip. Can't really go wrong with either.
 
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