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sjruelle
member (29)member
  
02/23/2020 07:05AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
ISO help sorting out pros and cons of wearable options for bug protection. I am heading into the Quetico in mid-June to go top-water bass fishing and am seeking to cast for bass more than swat insects! I also have an off grid cabin in northern Wisconsin that is in the middle of the Chequamegon Forest and unbearable flying insects in the summer.

So far, I have found three options: Rynoskin, The Original Bug Shirt Company, and several on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Outdoor-Anti-mosquito-Mesh-Jacket-Bug-Insect-Repellent-Clothing-Set-with-Gloves/153462332629?hash=item23bb115cd5:m:mcvMg-KI61SOIaftq9dMT1w)

Many thanks in advance for any experience or insights. Cheers, Steve
 
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02/23/2020 07:19AM  
Just a bunch of Deet for me. I have found all the “bug clothing” that I have uncomfortably warm for my tastes. I do pack a head net , but can’t remember the last time I used it.
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(14414)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
  
02/23/2020 07:30AM  
I wear polyester zip off pants, and polyester long sleeve shirts from Columbia. I soak them in permethrin before the trip. I also wear boots, and a hat. That takes care of everything but my hands, face, and neck area. A quick spray of Deep Woods off and I’m good to go. I also take a head net when the black flies are out. Works for me.
 
GearGuy
distinguished member (130)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/23/2020 07:47AM  
You're thinking way too hard about this. Clothing that you buy from the store that says "anti bugs" is really just clothing that has a commercially approved amount of permethrine sprayed on it. Instead of asking "what anti bug clothes should I buy?" you should be asking "what should I put on my NORMAL clothing that I ALREADY OWN that will make it anti bug?" and the answer to that is Permethrine.

You can get sawyer permethrine pre diluted from REI or online, this permethrine is already pre diluted to the Worldwide Health Organization recommendation of 0.5%, you can just spray it or soak your clothes in it as soon as you get home from the store. The other way is to buy Martin's 10% Permethrine, and dilute it yourself down to the recommended 0.5%, and then use it the exact same way as the sawyer. One route is a lot cheaper if you go to the BWCA every year (Martins) and the other route is easier if you don't care about money but you'll run out of it halfway through spraying your 2nd clothing article (Sawyer). They both have the exact same results (dead and repelled bugs).

There is no color clothing that keeps bugs at bay, there's no special material that they refuse to land on, there is no brand they hate so much they'll ignore a person. When it comes to keeping bugs off the best way is permethrine. Permethrine is what the military uses when it sends it's troops to bug-dangerous places, permethrine is what you spray around the house to keep bugs out of the home.

Reviews? One year I started soaking EVERYTHING, prior to that I had never used permethrine. I soak my tent, I soak my outermost layers of clothing, I soak my head net, my hat, my socks, I soak my soul in permethrine prior to going to canoe country. Results? My yellow CCS tarp that I soak turns into what I call "the dead zone" which kills aprox (total guess) a million mosquitos a night which are dumb enough to land on it. It's like shaking off a tarp that just lasted a sandstorm, it's a little grotesque but I'm a guy that likes dead mosquitoes so it's beautiful to me. Bugs have a noticeable weariness to you when you're soaked in permethrine. They gotta want it bad enough to fight through a potent neurotoxin that overloads their tiny little nervous systems and sends them with a one way ticket to never-ending-seizure-land, which btw is what actually happens to insects when they come in contact with permethrine.

Anyways yea. Buy some permethrine. Soak your clothing. It's the best way to keep bugs at bay. https://sectionhiker.com/permethrin-soak-method-guide/
 
02/23/2020 11:45AM  
Gotta go with GearGuy on this, Permethrin soaked outer clothes!
Have used Sawyer spray and now soak with Duration Permethrin dilution at .5% clothing soak. I get a full 6 weeks of use before noticed performance decline.
Side note worked in the food industry 40+ years and with Permethrin/Pyrethrin base insecticides.
It's safe applications are very well documented.

butthead
 
TuscaroraBorealis
distinguished member(5665)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
02/23/2020 01:54PM  
Camping clothes and bring mosquito spray and use as needed.
 
02/23/2020 02:13PM  
GearGuy: "The other way is to buy Martin's 10% Permethrine, and dilute it yourself down to the recommended 0.5%, and then use it the exact same way as the sawyer. One route is a lot cheaper if you go to the BWCA every year (Martins) and the other route is easier if you don't care about money but you'll run out of it halfway through spraying your 2nd clothing article (Sawyer). They both have the exact same results (dead and repelled bugs).

Anyways yea. Buy some permethrine. Soak your clothing. It's the best way to keep bugs at bay. https://sectionhiker.com/permethrin-soak-method-guide/"


+1 on treating your current comfortable clothing with permethrin. First time we did the treatment with Sawyer's, then read lots of comments about mixing our own at 0.5% from 10% that's available at any farm supply and many hardware stores. I've been using Gordon's for several years...

TZ
 
02/23/2020 03:43PM  
I use a "bug suit" I got from Cabelas years ago. Very light mesh, very thin, hooded ,zipper closer, camo polyester.
The tags are so worn I can't read any more info, sorry. The mesh breathes very well and is not hot. Weight total pants and coat 12ozs.(my scale) Stops mosquitoes, deer flies and black flies. I carry it and my rain gear in a long pouch attached to the canoe front brace so I have them handy.
I also treat my gear but not my clothes, just my choice.

PS. I disturbed a nest of yellow jackets while duck hunting with the coat on, only stings were on my hands and face. No guarantees but I think it saved me more grief and I won't be testing it again!
 
02/23/2020 04:03PM  
Some of the farm and household products come in higher concentrations and you need to work a simple formula for proper dilution. But some of that smells off and or too flowery. I like a 0 smell finish.

butthead
 
arm2008
distinguished member (176)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/23/2020 09:50PM  
If you buy Permethrin to dilute (which is what I do) make sure you get the version without petroleum distillates. I use these notes to do presentations to some local groups (around here we deal with ticks, lots of ticks).
Treating clothes for ticks
 
02/23/2020 10:41PM  
Arm2008, thanks for link. That looks like a good system. I'll try that in the spring when I retreat my clothing.
 
02/24/2020 07:12AM  
Permethrin soak all my clothes(long sleeve shirts and long pants). Wear socks, gloves, hat, sunglasses and a buff. Only skin exposed are my finger tips.
 
02/24/2020 08:23AM  
arm2008: "If you buy Permethrin to dilute (which is what I do) make sure you get the version without petroleum distillates. I use these notes to do presentations to some local groups (around here we deal with ticks, lots of ticks).
Treating clothes for ticks "


Not always correct, generally good guidance. The Duration I mention has petroleum distillates. Made, labeled and sold as a clothing soak and has 0 odor.

butthead
 
dentondoc
distinguished member(1097)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/24/2020 09:18AM  
OK. Here is my drill! (Sorry, I'm also long winded!)

During the last week or two before I head into the bush, I use the Sawyer's Military Grade soak to treat my clothing. One bottle is sufficient for one complete outfit of clothing. The soak kit also comes with a plastic bag into which you place the clothing and the solution (which is diluted according to instructions). Each bag contains a long-sleeve shirt, pants (both nylon because they are light weight and dry quickly), a pair of socks and a bandana. (Any hat I take I will use a spray bottle to treat.) I place the bag outside, in the sun, to set for several hours ... rotating the bag occasionally to help spread the soaking solution which is supposed to be evenly distributed in your clothing when you all the contents are in the bag. However, a certain amount of the soak solution will, of course, settle to the bottom of the bag if not moved a bit. I also feel that the heat from the sun helps to impregnate the material more completely. After several hours, I remove the garments from the bag and hang them to air dry completely in the sun.

The next step is a possible option, depending on your level of sensitivity to chemicals on your skin. If you fall in this category, I'd recommend you washing your treated garments. The treatment is supposed to be good for 6 weeks and 6 washings. When I first started using this solution, I found a slight rash on my arms and even more so around my wrists. This was most likely a chemical transfer from my garment to my skin, resulting from sweating. (BTW: It is also recommended that you have a "base layer" under your clothing. My base layer consists of a t-shirt, and undershorts.)

Which ever way you go here, my next step is to rinse the plastic bag used to treat the clothing and return them to the bag for storage until needed for/during the trip. This tends to eliminate any transfer of the treatment to other things as well as containing the treated materials. Since I do two sets of clothing for a two week trip, one of these bags goes into my travel bag and the other goes into the pack containing other clothing, etc. After a few days, I usually feel that it is time for a thorough wash for myself. So, I bathe AND wash the set of clothing I was just wearing. (Do this away from the lake. Dispose of your waste water away from the lake as well.) This means I always have "back up" clothing that is relatively clean, in case they are needed later.

Now, I mentioned a bandana above. I feel that this is a critical piece of clothing. It goes on every morning, around my neck, and stays there until I prepare for bed in the evening. No skeets feasting on MY neck ... no sir! And, don't go skimpy on this article of clothing. When the skeets are really bad on portages, I will lay an edge of the bandana across the top of my head and then secure it with a hat. (Also helps as a sun screen for your neck on those really bright days.)

Any expose skin, I will treat with 100% deet (I personally like Ben's, but YMMV). It is a rarity for me to have to do that around camp, but something a frequently do when crossing portages. And, if the critters are coming at you in clouds, I also take a couple of head nets (one stays in my PFD and an extra is in with my clothing). It is REALLY rare that I use one.

One final, and you may think peculiar, step! Starting a month before I head out to the backcountry, I swap my daily fish oil capsule for a flax seed oil capsule. Yeah, I know it sounds odd, but it works for me. I was tipped to this by my daughter. She and her husband run a swimming pool service in a warm climate, which puts them in places where there is often standing water, and hence mosquitos. After they started taking flax seed oil, the number of mosquito bites they received fell to nearly zero.

Does this work? Let me put it this way. I am one of those folks who has had the pleasure of making a trip to Opasquia Provincial Park; a "non-operating" park in extreme northwest Ontario (the entire park sits at a latitude that is NORTH of the southern part of Hudson Bay). On my trip there, with two companions, we were greeted by our outfitter with the following statement: "I've been here for 25 years and this is absolutely the WORST season for mosquitos I've ever seen!"

Both of my traveling companions wore treated clothing and used deet. They both "lived" in their head nets and the skeets still feasted on them. By contrast, I think I used a head net about twice (for maybe an hour each time) and at the end of the trip I had ONE mosquito bite. So, say what you will ... hey, I'm going to continue to do this (which I've now done for at least 10 years) until I find something better (and by better I mean more convenient and with perhaps a bit less environmental impact).

dd
 
02/24/2020 09:59AM  
I picked up some of the 36% SFR concentrate off of Amazon last year when my usual 10% Hi-Yield that I get from the farm supply store in town ran out. It is cheaper and will last longer, and considerably less odor than the 10%.

I only bought the spray once or twice, before my 1st trip in 2008. Been soaking ever since, and usually do a batch or two of "camp clothes" prior to the kids going off to summer camp. If it's a busy summer or there's early Fall plans I might touch up some garments in August.

Uncovered areas will get 3M Ultrathon or another controlled release repellent lotion if the mosquitoes are especially hungry.
 
sjruelle
member (29)member
  
02/24/2020 12:11PM  
Many thanks for the push to use permethrin. I'll give it a try!
 
EddyTurn
distinguished member (259)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/24/2020 01:36PM  
If spraying chemicals deters skeeters then there's not enough skeeters. I don't travel in BWCA, but in central Ontario in June even a bucket of deet won't suffice - black flies will eat you alive and wash it down with permethrin. Original bug shirt and pants is the way to go in my opinion. Totally bug proof, they are tough enough to survive at least two seasons of heavy portaging before I have to replace them. If it's too hot - and it's usually not in June - I will take down the bug shirt hood and replace it with lighter head net.
 
Chuckles
distinguished member (255)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/24/2020 04:48PM  
TrailZen: "
GearGuy: "The other way is to buy Martin's 10% Permethrine, and dilute it yourself down to the recommended 0.5%, and then use it the exact same way as the sawyer. One route is a lot cheaper if you go to the BWCA every year (Martins) and the other route is easier if you don't care about money but you'll run out of it halfway through spraying your 2nd clothing article (Sawyer). They both have the exact same results (dead and repelled bugs).


+1 on treating your current comfortable clothing with permethrin. First time we did the treatment with Sawyer's, then read lots of comments about mixing our own at 0.5% from 10% that's available at any farm supply and many hardware stores. I've been using Gordon's for several years...

TZ"


Be careful diluting products not approved for humans. I looked into diluting stronger stuff last year and found that the ones made for animals aren't approved for application to human clothing, even if diluted. I got this from calling the company that made the products in my local farm store. She said that they often have undisclosed, non-pesticide ingredients that aren't approved for human/clothing applications. I don't have documentation for this, but she seemed well informed and certain.
 
arm2008
distinguished member (176)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/24/2020 06:58PM  
Chuckles: "
Be careful diluting products not approved for humans. I looked into diluting stronger stuff last year and found that the ones made for animals aren't approved for application to human clothing, even if diluted. I got this from calling the company that made the products in my local farm store. She said that they often have undisclosed, non-pesticide ingredients that aren't approved for human/clothing applications. I don't have documentation for this, but she seemed well informed and certain. "


The ones with petroleum byproducts are for use on animals. I have always read that you should use the ones without.
 
Jasonf
senior member (82)senior membersenior member
  
02/24/2020 07:45PM  
Very good write up! Just would like to add that sunlight (UV) degrades the effectiveness of the Permethrin. For me, I soak just about anything that is fabric in a five gallon bucket and then hang it in a real shaded area on the back of my barn until dry.

dentondoc: "OK. Here is my drill! (Sorry, I'm also long winded!)

During the last week or two before I head into the bush, I use the Sawyer's Military Grade soak to treat my clothing. One bottle is sufficient for one complete outfit of clothing. The soak kit also comes with a plastic bag into which you place the clothing and the solution (which is diluted according to instructions). Each bag contains a long-sleeve shirt, pants (both nylon because they are light weight and dry quickly), a pair of socks and a bandana. (Any hat I take I will use a spray bottle to treat.) I place the bag outside, in the sun, to set for several hours ... rotating the bag occasionally to help spread the soaking solution which is supposed to be evenly distributed in your clothing when you all the contents are in the bag. However, a certain amount of the soak solution will, of course, settle to the bottom of the bag if not moved a bit. I also feel that the heat from the sun helps to impregnate the material more completely. After several hours, I remove the garments from the bag and hang them to air dry completely in the sun.

The next step is a possible option, depending on your level of sensitivity to chemicals on your skin. If you fall in this category, I'd recommend you washing your treated garments. The treatment is supposed to be good for 6 weeks and 6 washings. When I first started using this solution, I found a slight rash on my arms and even more so around my wrists. This was most likely a chemical transfer from my garment to my skin, resulting from sweating. (BTW: It is also recommended that you have a "base layer" under your clothing. My base layer consists of a t-shirt, and undershorts.)

Which ever way you go here, my next step is to rinse the plastic bag used to treat the clothing and return them to the bag for storage until needed for/during the trip. This tends to eliminate any transfer of the treatment to other things as well as containing the treated materials. Since I do two sets of clothing for a two week trip, one of these bags goes into my travel bag and the other goes into the pack containing other clothing, etc. After a few days, I usually feel that it is time for a thorough wash for myself. So, I bathe AND wash the set of clothing I was just wearing. (Do this away from the lake. Dispose of your waste water away from the lake as well.) This means I always have "back up" clothing that is relatively clean, in case they are needed later.

Now, I mentioned a bandana above. I feel that this is a critical piece of clothing. It goes on every morning, around my neck, and stays there until I prepare for bed in the evening. No skeets feasting on MY neck ... no sir! And, don't go skimpy on this article of clothing. When the skeets are really bad on portages, I will lay an edge of the bandana across the top of my head and then secure it with a hat. (Also helps as a sun screen for your neck on those really bright days.)

Any expose skin, I will treat with 100% deet (I personally like Ben's, but YMMV). It is a rarity for me to have to do that around camp, but something a frequently do when crossing portages. And, if the critters are coming at you in clouds, I also take a couple of head nets (one stays in my PFD and an extra is in with my clothing). It is REALLY rare that I use one.

One final, and you may think peculiar, step! Starting a month before I head out to the backcountry, I swap my daily fish oil capsule for a flax seed oil capsule. Yeah, I know it sounds odd, but it works for me. I was tipped to this by my daughter. She and her husband run a swimming pool service in a warm climate, which puts them in places where there is often standing water, and hence mosquitos. After they started taking flax seed oil, the number of mosquito bites they received fell to nearly zero.

Does this work? Let me put it this way. I am one of those folks who has had the pleasure of making a trip to Opasquia Provincial Park; a "non-operating" park in extreme northwest Ontario (the entire park sits at a latitude that is NORTH of the southern part of Hudson Bay). On my trip there, with two companions, we were greeted by our outfitter with the following statement: "I've been here for 25 years and this is absolutely the WORST season for mosquitos I've ever seen!"

Both of my traveling companions wore treated clothing and used deet. They both "lived" in their head nets and the skeets still feasted on them. By contrast, I think I used a head net about twice (for maybe an hour each time) and at the end of the trip I had ONE mosquito bite. So, say what you will ... hey, I'm going to continue to do this (which I've now done for at least 10 years) until I find something better (and by better I mean more convenient and with perhaps a bit less environmental impact).

dd"
 
gkimball
distinguished member(655)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/24/2020 09:25PM  
Have never used permethrin. Wearing a neurotoxin soaked garment never sounded too good. Also, don't let it get near the lake or pets. It is deadly for fish and cats.

Just use a headnet, long sleeve shirt, long pants and some DEET if you need to. Worked for decades. Still works today.
 
Chuckles
distinguished member (255)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/25/2020 09:07AM  

arm2008: "
Chuckles: "
Be careful diluting products not approved for humans. I looked into diluting stronger stuff last year and found that the ones made for animals aren't approved for application to human clothing, even if diluted. I got this from calling the company that made the products in my local farm store. She said that they often have undisclosed, non-pesticide ingredients that aren't approved for human/clothing applications. I don't have documentation for this, but she seemed well informed and certain. "



The ones with petroleum byproducts are for use on animals. I have always read that you should use the ones without. "


I think it is more complicated than that and Butthead's comment about Durathon being approved for clothing, but containing petroleum distillates further supports this. I generally take notes of every important phone conversation I make, but I can't find this one and it is killing me. I distinctly remember that the ingredients that weren't approved for humans/clothing were not listed on the bottle anywhere. I suppose you could probably get the MSDS and figure it out.

I too am frustrated with having to buy a highly diluted product, instead of a concentrated one that I dilute myself. But until I find a concentrated one that is approved for humans/clothing, I'm going to stick with paying for shipping on the extra water in the bottles.
 
02/25/2020 11:39AM  
gkimball: "Wearing a neurotoxin soaked garment never sounded too good"


Hate to tell you but permethrin is a long used food storage insecticide, since the early 1970's. Virtually anything using a field harvested grain/bean/vegetable is initially stored in a warehouse that is weekly fumed with permethrin spray. As pointed out I spent my life working in the food industry primarily raw products and worked directly with the pest control teams. Also the term "organic" is strictly limited in exactly what that describes and does not apply to warehousing.
If the use is prevalent in the food industry what about pest control in the natural fabric industry?

butthead

PS: Something to consider, "Pest control

In agriculture, permethrin is mainly used on cotton, wheat, maize, and alfalfa crops. Its use is controversial because, as a broad-spectrum chemical, it kills indiscriminately; as well as the intended pests, it can harm beneficial insects, including honey bees, and aquatic life.[13]

Permethrin kills ticks and mosquitoes on contact with treated clothing. A method of reducing deer tick populations by treating rodent vectors involves stuffing biodegradable cardboard tubes with permethrin-treated cotton. Mice collect the cotton for lining their nests. Permethrin on the cotton instantly kills any immature ticks feeding on the mice.

Permethrin is used in tropical areas to prevent mosquito-borne disease such as dengue fever and malaria. Mosquito nets used to cover beds may be treated with a solution of permethrin. This increases the effectiveness of the bed net by killing parasitic insects before they are able to find gaps or holes in the net. Personnel working in malaria-endemic areas may be instructed to treat their clothing with permethrin as well.

Permethrin is the most commonly used insecticide worldwide for the protection of wool from keratinophagous insects such as Tineola bisselliella.[14]

To better protect soldiers from the risk and annoyance of biting insects, the British[15] and US armies are treating all new uniforms with permethrin.[16] "

good old Wikipedia bh
 
02/25/2020 12:59PM  
gkimball: "Have never used permethrin. Wearing a neurotoxin soaked garment never sounded too good. Also, don't let it get near the lake or pets. It is deadly for fish and cats."


Once the garment is dry the active ingredient is bonded to the fabric. You can jump in the lake just fine, or not need to worry about changing your socks at a wet portage.
 
arm2008
distinguished member (176)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/25/2020 02:58PM  

From
Martins Q&A
Asked by Catherine from Torrance Ca 07/18/2014
Q Can Martins Permethrin 10% be used to spray clothing?
A Martins Permethrin 10% should NOT be applied to clothing. We do carry Tick Block which is specifically formulated for use on clothing. While both products do contain permethrin, the formulation of Martins Permethrin 10% contains materials that should not come into contact with your skin.

First I heard of this in the prior message. I find it a bit vague. They no longer make Tick Block which was a pre-diluted version in a carrier made for clothing.

I'm going to continue taking my chances with the water based Permethrin. I treat a lot of clothes - we've got ticks and Lyme disease and I have to treat all of my outdoor work clothes a large part of the year. The spray stuff would just cost me too much, and I don't like the idea of inhaling it. It's a matter of weighing risks, which I continue to do as more information comes in.

Oh, as far as neurotoxins - add DEET to the list. And it melts plastic. I've switched to Lemon Eucalyptus and Picaridin for a variety of other reasons. I'm sure in a couple of years we'll find out those are bad, too.
 
dentondoc
distinguished member(1097)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/25/2020 03:51PM  
arm2008: "
From
Martins Q&A
... the formulation of Martins Permethrin 10% contains materials that should not come into contact with your skin. "

DAMN!

Even the Sawyer's Military Style Clothing Treatment only contains 0.50% permethrin (and it's diluted 2-1 before application).

It's a wonder you don't glow in the dark at that strength!

No! I would NOT be wearing that next to my skin.

dd

 
arm2008
distinguished member (176)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/25/2020 04:21PM  
dentondoc: "
arm2008: "
From
Martins Q&A
... the formulation of Martins Permethrin 10% contains materials that should not come into contact with your skin. "

DAMN!


Even the Sawyer's Military Style Clothing Treatment only contains 0.50% permethrin (and it's diluted 2-1 before application).


It's a wonder you don't glow in the dark at that strength!


No! I would NOT be wearing that next to my skin.


dd


"


I don't know anybody that recommends treating clothes at that strength. Recommendation is to dilute to 0.5% (1% for shoes).
 
GearGuy
distinguished member (130)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
03/01/2020 02:37AM  
gkimball: "Have never used permethrin. Wearing a neurotoxin soaked garment never sounded too good. Also, don't let it get near the lake or pets. It is deadly for fish and cats.


Just use a headnet, long sleeve shirt, long pants and some DEET if you need to. Worked for decades. Still works today."


heathfield worker here. Permethrin is so rapidly metabolized by mammalian livers (besides cats) that unless you drink it straight out of the bottle, it can't reach toxic levels by being absorbed through skin.
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(14414)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
  
03/01/2020 07:48AM  
Permethrin has nooot affffffected mee aaa bitt, sooo far as I can telllll...

Kidding aside, it is a chemical that has been around and used for decades. It becomes safe to use after it dries. I’ve seen personally the health affects of someone who caught Lymes disease, not good. Also it prevents any of the many mosquito born illnesses. Weighing the product there are way more benefits to using permethrin than not.
 
03/01/2020 09:12AM  
A lot of confused opinion expressed. Permethrin is an established and heavily documented use in agriculture (vegetable and animal products), since the 1970's. The information is public and easily researched once dried it is inert, so it then no longer affects cats or fish, or much of anything. The way it bonds is molecular so over dossing only wastes permethrin, dollars and time. The treated item only accepts so much permethrin.

butthead
 
GearGuy
distinguished member (130)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
03/03/2020 05:42AM  
butthead: "The information is public and easily researched once dried it is inert, so it then no longer affects cats or fish, or much of anything. The way it bonds is molecular so over dossing only wastes permethrin, dollars and time. The treated item only accepts so much permethrin.


butthead"


Absolutely not true. There are many reports of skin irritation around the ankles and belt line after soaking clothes in too high of a concentration of permethrine. If your dry permethrine soaked clothes get rained on, that permethrine will concentrate in the ankles and belt line (gravity at work) as it washes away and if the concentration that you soaked with in the first place is too high, you risk skin irritation in these areas. Lets say you soak your clothes in the approved 0.5% permethrine, then you hang it on a clothes line. Gravity will pull the chemical to the ankles and belt line as it drip dries, and therefore the chemical concentration in these areas is higher. Go out in the rain with those pants, and now you have >0.5% permethrine (recommended concentration) being rehydrated and therefor mobilizing the chemical to be freely absorbed by your body. The final step in my permethrine soaking process is to wash for aprox 15 minutes in the washer, without detergent, for this exact reason, a rain simulator if you will.

I welcome you to soak your clothes in 10% permethrine vs the recommended 0.5% you will absolutely notice a difference on your skin if you get that piece of clothing wet again, or even sweat on. The permethrine doesn't just disappear into oblivion once it's dried. When you wash it in your washer, it absolutely goes down the drain and adds toxicity to your drain water, albeit a very very low concentration. Let say you put a fish in a tub, and then threw in your dry previously permethrine soaked clothes. That fish is dead. On the other hand if I pick up my cat in dried previously permethrine soaked clothes, he'll be fine (as long as he doesn't start licking my clothing).
 
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