BWCA Why I still hang my food pack. Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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      Why I still hang my food pack.     

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marsonite
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04/29/2020 07:28PM  
Ok, since it's a little dull around here...

I'm not trying to sell people on my way of protecting my food pack. You can use your Bear Vault, Ursack, blue barrel, hide it in the woods, put a bell on it, or whatever. I'm not going to tell you to do it my way.

But it gets just a bit wearisome on some of these threads when someone says they hang their pack and all these people chime in saying their way is better and hanging doesn't work, etc etc.

Actually, the bear vaults sound like a good option, but jeez, 80 bucks for a 11 liter BV? I'm a cheap old man. My Kondos food pack is 80 liters, and on a long trip I will have that sucker full. How many Bear Vaults would I have to have? I carry two 1-1/4" pulleys (that Home Depot has on their website at $2.98 each) and a hundred feet of 550 paracord. Less than 20 bucks for the whole setup. And by the way, if you roll up your paracord like a yarn ball, it won't get tangled (reverse the direction of the wrap every 10 wraps or so and it won't get twisted either).

Another thing you always hear is that "you can't find the right tree". Well, you solve that by using the two rope system. First rope has a pulley on the end, you toss that high up in a tree. I use a rock. The tree has to have branches. They don't have to be long branches or anything. Any old branch that is capable of holding the weight of your pack will do. So the second rope is tied to your food pack, goes up through the pulley, and back to you.

I did three weeks in Wabakimi and hung my food pack every night. There aren't exactly big white pines there...lots of scrubby jack pine and spruce.

Of course, pulling a 50 pound food pack up in the air with paracord can be kind of hard on the hands, so what I do is find a baton of firewood or something, and tie the end to that. Gloves are nice too. Then I hoist away, pulling the pack up and AWAY from the trunk of the first tree in the process. When it's high enough, I circle around a second tree--once you got one revolution around the tree, friction is going to be your friend and you can relax a bit. I do a couple of turns around a tree, and then tuck the baton into one of the earlier loops.

I typically get my pack 12 feet off the ground and 6-8 feet away from trunk of any tree. Now, I have heard of bears climbing trees and chewing through ropes, it's true. But I bet any method you name has some chance of failure.

I chuckle about the bells on the pack idea. Way back, I used to put my food under the canoe, with a pot on the canoe figuring I would wake up and scare the bear when it knocked the pot off. Then, on my wife and I's first trip together on Fairy Lake, I did a very lousy job of hanging my pack, figuring just that...I'd wake up and scare the bear. Well, I did wake up, but the bear didn't scare. I threw rocks, yelled, beat on pots. I finally tried lighting a big curl of birch bark on fire and brandishing it at the bear and I got too close and it charged me! Well, it was a bluff charge I know now, but who wants to test that theory out at five in the morning standing in your underwear! Luckily it was just a two night trip and the worst of the damage was a hungry paddle out. Our marriage did survive 30 plus years later.

And that's the thing about some of the methods you hear about, like hiding the pack in the woods. Granted, bear encounters these days are pretty rare. You could probably just leave it on a stump in camp and 99% of the time you'd be fine. But you've spent all this time planning the trip, packing the food, taking a precious vacation, etc...do you want to risk having a bear get your food and wrecking your trip?

So yeah, I'm old, I'm cheap, I'm stuck in my ways. I'm going to keep hanging my food pack. Hope I get a chance this summer!



 
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04/29/2020 08:37PM  
I like your comments and also hang my pack. One thing I do if no good tree presents itself is to go along the shore line and tie the pack to a tree and lower the pack over a cliff and above the water. I paddle if needed for this. If nothing is available in camp or within a reasonable distance, I use the under the canoe method. That has happened once.
 
Duckman
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04/29/2020 08:44PM  
Most of my trips are solo and I don’t try too hard food wise. Some just add water rice/pasta dishes, spam, maybe some ova easy eggs, oatmeal. Not much fresh or that isn’t packaged.

It’s just me and it’s largely more or less fairly scent free. I put the food sack in a no scent bag and stash. Even in a worst case scenario I’m not going to starve if I lose it all and have to paddle out.

If I took a group and kids I’d probably be more careful because the risk of the trip being ruined for everyone by a food disaster would be higher.
 
04/29/2020 10:17PM  
I am one who has never hung their food. I completely understand why a person would though.. actually I did once on my way through Polly but that is supposedly bear capital. I go with one of your last statements. I'll try to scare them and if not I guess I leave early and hungry. I live really close, never really plan, and go all the time so it isn't a big deal to me but I do get why someone who has spent a lot of planning wouldn't want to risk it. I would never go as far as lighting fire and then chasing lol... I am not quite that brave in my underwear.
 
mjmkjun
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04/30/2020 05:41AM  
I like your comments and attitude about hanging. I suppose you are aware that in some National Parks /Wilderness areas, a bonafide hard-cased Bear Vault is required. BTW, I've always used a blue barrel w/harness or Bear Vault as it servers me well. However, witnessing the skill of tightly-strung foodstuff hangings is a pleasure to behold. :)
 
billconner
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04/30/2020 06:18AM  
Philmont Scout Ranch requires hanging and has a hanging line at each site. Lots if bears there. What does Northern Tier do?

I've always hung in Q and BWCA. Now I'm thinking about some other areas where hanging seems less popular, so considering options.
 
04/30/2020 08:32AM  
Even though I went to Ursack's long ago, I will still often hang it anyway. I bought it to keep small vermin out much more than bears and had lost a sizeable $$ of storage bags over my time outdoors. A big benefit is how light I pack for food normally only taking 7-9 pounds for a 10 day trip, so it's easy to hang it!

butthead
 
MikeinMpls
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04/30/2020 09:33AM  
I won't argue with anyone's method, hanging or not. Everyone has their reasons and system. Having tripped with Cliff Jacobson, I have learned and adopted his system.

Putting the food under the canoe does scare me, however. If a bear wants food, and food is under the canoe, I would think bear is going to upend or otherwise go through (so-to-speak) the canoe to get at it. A paddle out hungry is one thing...but if one has no canoe to paddle out in, that's another story.

Mike
 
04/30/2020 10:00AM  
hiking in grizzly bear country taught me to hang it. I just cannot not hang it. Camp doesn't feel complete till it is up.
 
04/30/2020 11:08AM  
bwcadan: "I like your comments and also hang my pack. One thing I do if no good tree presents itself is to go along the shore line and tie the pack to a tree and lower the pack over a cliff and above the water. I paddle if needed for this. If nothing is available in camp or within a reasonable distance, I use the under the canoe method. That has happened once."


I remember once when Spartan1 did a maneuver like that (over the water). I believe we were on Gabi, but it was a long time ago, so I may have to ask him to correct that. At any rate, about 2 AM he awoke with low blood sugar, and I had to get the pack down. I untied the pack, and "splash!" It wasn't one of the best middle-of-the night experiences I can remember. :-)
 
yellowcanoe
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04/30/2020 11:24AM  
hanging does not always work. Sorry. If it works in the ecosystem you travel in fine. It works for you and that is what matters.

Black spruce is very common where I travel. It has dense spindly branches that hold up nothing.

Willow are another common tree.. Even hanging laundry over a branch often results in dirty laundry again!

And Mangroves... sign.. again not a hangable tree.

I do have a bear vault and my gripe is the same as the OP. I only use it for dog food!
Mine is not waterproof. For thirty years I have been using the Cliff method of throwing a barrel in the woods away from camp a bit. It has worked. Even grizzlies are not attracted to it for some reason. My food is boring!
 
04/30/2020 12:41PM  
The vast majority of my trips have been "The Annual Guys Trip" We started in 1999 when we were in college and went annually for a long time, took some time off and now go occasionally.

The annual guys trip includes the staple of Whiskey, lots of Whiskey. Our food protection plan, depends largely on the amount of whiskey consumed. Note: our default is hanging.

Sober - Food pack is hung in the tree at the appropriate distance and height.

Slightly Drunk - Food pack is hung in the tree, can't guarantee appropriate height. It might be 3 feet off the ground and it might be tight against the hanging branch.

Moderately Drunk - Food Pack is forgot by the fire grate and left til morning.

Completely Drunk - Food Pack is slung into the woods, somewhere along the trail back to the tent, usually with a statement along the lines of "Find that Bears!" or "Cliffy would be proud!"

All methods have been deployed over the years. All with success.
 
mschi772
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04/30/2020 02:34PM  
The problem is that we are a community of wilderness trippers who'll go on week+ long trips, often go in groups, and, unlike backpackers, we don't limit ourselves to the lightest, most efficient foods. I need like 60 liters to feed four for a week (give/take of course). Not only are six BV500's super expensive, but the geometry of packing food into six small containers is vastly inferior to packing food into a single large container. Admittedly an advantage to having food in many smaller containers is that everyone can carry one or two of those containers in their pack instead of having to worry about a dedicated pack/barrel.

So what are we left with? Hanging which is highly problematic in 9+ times out of 10 no matter what the die-hards and their confirmation biases say, or barrels which aren't even close to the bear resistance of proper bear-resistant containers. Sure, Ursack has a 30 liter bag now which is very tempting, but there are so many virtues to a hard-sided bear resistant container.

My dream is that someone will someday make a tested and approved barrel that is 30- 60 liters in size. Maybe it just isn't possible for such a container to exist without being prohibitively heavy, but that's my dream. Heck, a 20-liter BearVault would even tempt me as my usual group would only need 3 of those, and I think they'd be large enough to not demand such finicky packing to make sure everything fits correctly. It would be neat if 2-3 20-liter canisters could also snap together and be roughly similar in dimensions to a Harmony/Mauser barrel so that we could still use the harnesses that many of us have to carry them. Hey! BearVault, are you listening???
 
04/30/2020 04:10PM  
I think that hanging is one of the better methods to use when only considering the odds that a bear will get your food. I myself though, have gotten fed up with the process of hanging. Throwing a rope attached to a weight then pulling it back towards you when you get the wrong branch isn't the safest or smartest thing to do. Combined with me finding myself needing to climb the tree once in a while to get the rope unstuck and I judge the blue barrel to be safer.

My experience is not the same as everyone's. I never played baseball, so maybe other people can throw better than I can. Maybe others pick trees further away from camp where they can get the bag higher and where a bear isn't used to checking. You have to weigh the risks yourself and figure out what you are willing and able to do to mitigate them.
 
Ohiopikeman
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04/30/2020 04:27PM  
billconner: "Philmont Scout Ranch requires hanging and has a hanging line at each site. Lots if bears there. What does Northern Tier do?


I've always hung in Q and BWCA. Now I'm thinking about some other areas where hanging seems less popular, so considering options. "


Bill - There were plenty of bears running around Philmont, even at the basecamp! The poles with cable between them did make for very easy hanging though.

Our troop took two treks to the Northern Tier Bissett Base in Manitoba. I was a bit surprised with the bear protection method taught. We put our two food bags on the ground under our canoes, then balanced pots and pans on top of the food bags. This method worked just fine four our two week trip. This was in Atikaki Provincial Park which has very few annual visitors.

I've used ropes for decades up until 2018 when I bought a pair of "blue barrels" for a trip up to Alaska. I really appreciated the ease of use of the barrels compared to hanging. In all of the years if hanging, there was never once that I could not get our 60 lbs+ food pack at least 10' up and 6' away from a tree.... it often took some creativity, but we always got it done.

Dave
 
billconner
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04/30/2020 07:13PM  
mschi772: "So what are we left with? Hanging which is highly problematic in 9+ times out of 10 no matter what the die-hards and their confirmation biases say, or barrels which aren't even close to the bear resistance of proper bear-resistant containers. Sure, Ursack has a 30 liter bag now which is very tempting, but there are so many virtues to a hard-sided bear resistant container.
"


So which method is not subject to confirmation bias?
 
ZaraSp00k
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05/01/2020 09:57AM  
my Duluth pack is bear proof, it has never been broken into by any bear in over 30 years
 
riverrunner
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05/01/2020 11:43AM  
I only had one bear try and get my food pack.

I had a bear tag and soon after the bear was then food.
 
05/01/2020 06:18PM  
marsonite: “

But it gets just a bit wearisome on some of these threads when someone says they hang their pack and all these people chime in saying their way is better and hanging doesn't work, etc etc.
"


I guess it is perspective...I feel like as a non hanger I am always being lectured about how it is irresponsible and the ONLY way to go is to hang your food pack.

It is good to see that both sides are feeling similar, means it is probably way more even than either of us perceive.

T
 
mschi772
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05/01/2020 09:05PM  
billconner: "
mschi772: "So what are we left with? Hanging which is highly problematic in 9+ times out of 10 no matter what the die-hards and their confirmation biases say, or barrels which aren't even close to the bear resistance of proper bear-resistant containers. Sure, Ursack has a 30 liter bag now which is very tempting, but there are so many virtues to a hard-sided bear resistant container.
"



So which method is not subject to confirmation bias? "


Containers that have been tested and verified to be bear resistant would be a pretty solid example of a method one can point to having more than just dumb luck and confirmation bias supporting it.
 
05/02/2020 07:35AM  
I paddled with a guy that hung his food religiously. He couldn’t talk enough how bears have never had touched his food pack. After our first meal I had a better understanding why!
 
gkimball
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05/02/2020 08:43AM  
Everyone should use the method of protecting their food they like - just so long as you do it - for your sake and the bear's!

This is why I use bear canisters.
 
05/02/2020 12:39PM  
gkimball: "Everyone should use the method of protecting their food they like - just so long as you do it - for your sake and the... "





I totally agree, if we all did things the same we wouldn’t be American. My comment was my typical trying to make light of the subject. I’m basically set up to do whatever I feel like. Whatever you choose is from experience, preference, and availability or would I say environment. There are different methods, types of equipment... all kinda of variables. Do how you do it best... just get out and do it! When they of coarse open things up again.
 
marsonite
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05/02/2020 07:19PM  
timatkn: "
marsonite: “


But it gets just a bit wearisome on some of these threads when someone says they hang their pack and all these people chime in saying their way is better and hanging doesn't work, etc etc.
"



I guess it is perspective...I feel like as a non hanger I am always being lectured about how it is irresponsible and the ONLY way to go is to hang your food pack.


It is good to see that both sides are feeling similar, means it is probably way more even than either of us perceive.


T"


Yeah, I guess that's how internet forums are. Someone will ask a question, like what color is the sky, and if I say blue, someone else will come along and claim it's red.

 
moosewatcher
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05/03/2020 10:44AM  
When using a bear barrel what do you do with it when its empty or on the low side? It seems like a lot of wasted empty space.
 
05/03/2020 03:48PM  
moosewatcher: "When using a bear barrel what do you do with it when its empty or on the low side? It seems like a lot of wasted empty space."

I put stuff in it like the garbage, stove, cooking utensils etc. When I end my trip it’s still full. Just not full of food.
 
05/03/2020 05:50PM  
When it's low, I put other stuff in it. Or just consider that it's the same only lighter. Takes up the same space, works just as well as a seat, still holds the garbage.
 
billconner
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05/03/2020 06:25PM  
I wonder how many bear vaults Stu (BWJ) would need? Gallons of fresh milk, heads of lettuce, lots if fresh meet, etc.
 
GraniteCliffs
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05/03/2020 07:32PM  
I haves used all of the options over the years. Hanging, Ursack and bear vaults. Often have used putting the Duluth Pack on a granite slab and then putting the aluminum pots and pans on the pack. Food was partially robbed once in well over a hundred trips. My neighbor hung the pack to close to a tree. My conclusion? Do whatever works for you.
 
05/04/2020 02:48PM  
The other day I was biking around the U of M campus and saw two arborist working on a tree. One of them took a thin rope with a weighted pouch, rocked it back and forth a couple times between this legs, and then skillfully shot it up about 30 feet over the branch he seemed to want. I started getting nostalgic for the days when I would hang my food. There is no skill to using a bear barrel.
 
05/04/2020 02:57PM  
billconner: "I wonder how many bear vaults Stu (BWJ) would need? Gallons of fresh milk, heads of lettuce, lots if fresh meet, etc."





What Stu would need
 
billconner
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05/04/2020 06:58PM  
Jaywalker: "The other day I was biking around the U of M campus and saw two arborist working on a tree. One of them took a thin rope with a weighted pouch, rocked it back and forth a couple times between this legs, and then skillfully shot it up about 30 feet over the branch he seemed to want. I started getting nostalgic for the days when I would hang my food. There is no skill to using a bear barrel. "


Well, to the title of the thread and truth be told, I look forward to the hunt for the tree and the throw, which I do like your aborist. I'd miss the tradition if I didnt hang.
 
MikeinMpls
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05/05/2020 08:55AM  
billconner: "I wonder how many bear vaults Stu (BWJ) would need? Gallons of fresh milk, heads of lettuce, lots if fresh meet, etc."


That's funny! And he'd have to insulate the bear vaults, too. He'd likely have room for package of bologna after the insulation and ice were installed.

Mike
 
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