Where do you focus on saving weight? I'm a big guy so clothes still seem to be heavier than everyone else's.

My 12 year old North Face Rock22 weighs in at 8.6#. My 30 degree bag (that's only good to 40 degrees) is 4 to 5#. One or two Zrest/air matresses.

I'm in the process of moving my cook kit from MSR Blacklite 3 piece + utensils over to 2 or 3 pieces of titanium. This may be the biggest place for weight savings,

Maybe 3# for a stove and xtra fuel. Poncho will still be the same.

I could leave the tarp. I can't justify a solo U/L tent. I'd still have to keep it a 2 person. REI has some stuff in the 2# range.

How do you focus on cutting weight? Somehow, I'm still going to be at 80 to 90 to 100 pounds. I plan on double portaging most times so I could drop small hard items in a day pack. Lightening my main portage pack, till I need to single portage.

I find that it all adds up so it is hard to say what is the biggest weight savings. Tent and sleep system are not only huge for weight, but volume as well. This has become a bigger deal to me than weight. I want everything to fit in my Superior One.

My three person tent weighs 3lbs 14oz. My 0 degree quilt is under 2 lbs. Both of these items are light, but also take up a lot less space. My food for seven days fits in two Ursack Allmighty bags which saves a lot of space and weight as well. My cook kit consists of one aluminum tea pot, titanium cup, titanium frying pan, titanium spoon, and titanium plate. Eating freeze dried meals, bannock, and fish saves a lot of weight and very little dishes!

The weight of your sleeping bag is ridiculous. My 20 degree quilt is under 2#, hell my 15 degree full sleeping bag is barely 2# Lots of decent 2 person tents in the 3# range. That's close to 10# on just tent and bag. I suggest waterproof compression bags to save space for sleeping bag and clothes. Unless you're carrying cast iron the cook kit savings will not be that great for dollar spent.

I'd change out the poncho for a decent rain jacket- no weight savings but I can't see the point of carrying rain gear that is incapable of keeping you dry.

I like to carry a tarp even if I'm trying to single portage- makes rainy days or downpours easy to deal with.

You did not mention how long your trip was. I mention this because food weight can really add up on a longer trip and there is only so much you can do to save weight there.

In any case I don't think you need to necessarily buy different gear to make a drastic change in pack weight. I'd start by weighing and writing down everything that goes into your pack and then I'd start making decisions about what I have to have to stay warm, dry, fed and hydrated and separating those items from things that are nice luxuries but are not strictly necessary. I'd see what my pack weighs with only the "must have" items and then add back a very, very few luxuries that I think are worth the weight. If you do this I'd be very surprised if you could not get your pack weight with just essentials and not including food down to 30 to 35 pounds, maybe even a little lighter using gear you already own. If you plan on say 2 pounds of food and fuel per day (which is more than most of us need) that would still keep you under 50 pounds for a 7 day trip.

If you can post a comprehensive gear list I'm sure we could make more concrete suggestions.

Cutting weight has been an ongoing process for me and has taken several different tacks. You need to know what things weigh and you have started that process. I have carried that out to almost every item on my packing checklist.

Obviously you could save a lot of weight from an 8.6 lb. tent and a 4-5 lb. 40 degree sleeping bag. You could easily cut those more than half even without spending a fortune and there are some good deals out there now if you have money to spend.

The biggest weight savings would probably be a lightweight canoe . . .

I have gradually replaced tent, sleeping bag, and pad with lighter items, as well as a slew of smaller things. I've worked hard to cut kitchen/food weight because I planned to do longer solo trips and food weight does add up. First, I cut out a lot of the food I didn't eat on trips. Then I concentrated on reducing the weight and bulk of it by using dehydrated/freeze-dried and calorie-dense foods.

But I have also saved a lot of weight just by not taking things - no elaborate cooking/kitchen/cleaning equipment, no solar shower, no ax/hatchet, less camera equipment, no fishing equipment, fewer clothes. I'd look at these kinds of saving before saving an ounce or two on a titanium pot or spork. Especially when you could save pounds on tent, sleeping bag, etc.

It's simpler, which requires less equipment and reducing bulk is important too. I have a kind of condensed version of gear list, which I just sent to a couple of people. I will email that to you to give some ideas.

so i'm really hoping the border opens up and i can go north to algonquin in mid august. specifically looking at the opeongo/lavielle loop. if i take a water taxi in and possibly out. that gives me about 32 miles maybe 40 if i paddle out. . i think i can do that in 4 days. i know i can do 8-12 in my penobscot .
i'm planning on renting a U/L solo.

i've got my tent pitched in the side yard during lock down, camping out in the cool nights. so in a few days , when i take everything down. i will pack my pack up and see what it weighs. my last trip, with my wife. i know i carried more than i should of, to help her feel better about supplies and i will be the first to admit . that my tent and bag are space whores.


if something goes sideways. i may have to look at the bdub instead. i figure this virus sticks it's head up again, going into fall.

i am curious how much wet fuel you plan to pack for simple to light cooking. oatmeal and freeze dried, with dried pasta dishes. figuring 3 boils a day

I use about 3/4 ounces of alcohol to boil two cups of water. For canister fuel I seem to use about 1/2 ounce per meal, maybe a bit less. Not sure about white gas, as I have not carried a white gas stove for 3 season use in a long time. I do mostly freezer bag cooking for solo trips, so if your planning a doing more involved meals you'll probably use a bit more fuel.

Sounds like a fun trip. Enjoy!

As far as traveling, I usually figure about 2mph on average, so you should be good on that. I think you'll find the UL solo more efficient to paddle. Just keep track of travel speed to start, then you'll know. I double portage so I add the extra trips for that. They can add up.

As far as fuel, I use a canister stove - JetBoil Sol - to boil water to rehydrate meals. I don't really "cook". After a few years of tripping, I started keeping track of fuel usage by weighing. Several years later and I had a good number on average. It takes me 3.5 grams of canister fuel to boil 8-12 oz. of water for a dehydrated dinner. A couple of years ago I came across a canister gas fuel estimator somebody had posted on a blog. It works well for me and I'm sure you could use the same format and process for you. It's interactive and the key is that you need to know your fuel usage to plug in. I can email you a copy.

I'm also hoping to do a WCPP trip in Canada later in Aug/Sept, so I'll wish you good luck with that!

Boonie's fuel calculations are a lot more scientific and precise than mine. Probably explains why I walk/paddle out with more fuel left than I should ;) Thanks for posting Boonie!

If I'm counting grams I do use Esbit quite a bit when there are no fire bans. Calculating how much fuel to bring is very easy since each meal is basically one cube. Esbit has lots of quirks though, so I usually recommend folks not use it unless they like self torture. Can be tricky to start in high winds and leaves a sticky residue on pots. It also has a unique odor that has to be experienced to truly be appreciated. It's also a little spendy on a per burn basis, but on a 4 or 5 day trip it's still decimal dust. So why do I persist in using it? Well for shorter trips, say a week or less, it's very light, if you repackage into a small snack sized baggie you have almost no fuel container weight, so by the end of the trip not only is your fuel weight down to nothing, but you basically have no fuel container weight either. The stove burner is also very light. Lighter than even an alcohol stove (the wind screen and pot stand weigh the same though). The BGET burner I use weighs less than 1 gram and was cheap and easy to make. Finally, since there are no moving parts there is nothing to break for fail.

So do I think you should use Esbit. No! But if you're trying to shave every last ounce it's worth trying, but definitely give it a try on a short overnight jaunt before committing to it on a longer trip.

Blackdawg9,

Your trip plans are making me really, really want to get a paddle in the water again. With only day permits allow for now a longer trip will have to wait, but I think I will try to get into the BW for a day later this week. Thanks for the encouragement!

Agree with common themes on your weight reduction opportunities:
1) Tent
2) Sleeping Bag
3) Food

I switched to Ursacks from blue canisters and bear vaults which cut some weight. Also just reducing food taken and keeping the meals and kitchen gear super simple helps too. It took a couple trips but I found about 1500 calories a day is enough food for me. Works out to about 1 lb/day with largely dehydrated meals. I like oatmeal and coffee for breakfast, cold lunches , a single serving dehydrated meal for dinner and a few snacks thrown in for some variety. I use a MSR PocketRocket 2 canister stove and 1 oz of fuel/ day for breakfast and dinner meals usually leaves me with a small reserve at the end of the trip.

After that I followed the advice of others on this forum and looked at each item on my packing list critically and asked “Do I really need it?” Very common to bring too much stuff when you start out and I was certainly guilty of it. Keep a good equipment list for each trip and tailor it with lessons learned from each trip. Laying everything out (aka “gear explosion”) on a folding table or floor before your trip rather than just stuffing items in he pack since you still got room is helpful.

My pack weight including food for a five day solo trip in the May/September seasons is under 40 lbs. I don’t fish but I do like some creature comforts—Helinox chair, small saw and hatchet for evening fires, healthy pour of whiskey in the evenings, an Anker battery pack for my Garmin and IPhone and a Kindle e-reader. Including an UL kevlar solo canoe and all gear my portage weight is just over 80 lbs total. I single portage under about 120 rods and double portage the longer ones if I feel tired or I am just not in that much of a hurry.

Happy to send my latest solo packing list and menu list if you send me an email.

bd9 - good topic but it's one that will give you a million different opinions!

UL backpackers tend to be at the extreme end...historically most Trippers have been multi-portage heavyweights.

But these days it's not quite heresy to suggest leaving the axe at home.

I would recommend weighing everything you have, then look hard at backpackinglight.com, at the Ultralight sub on reddit, and at pack/weight tools like lighterpack.com and packstack.io.

I come from UL backpacking...prefer to cover distance when solo canoeing, so I am going UL backpacking-style, plus a canoe, PFD and a couple paddles.

I'm at 68 lbs for a week. That includes the canoe, the dog's gear and food, my food, a little water, all my gear (including fishing gear) and the clothes on my back.

Without my dog's stuff, the canoe or the clothes ('worn weight'), my pack weighs 33lbs at the start of a 7-day summer trip (25lbs at the end).

As others mentioned - the big 3 plus the canoe warrant the most consideration. Sleep System, Shelter and pack. But after those, a lot of it is editing...ask "Do I really need it"(do I really want to carry this weight?)

If this is an approach you want to take, consider budgeting something to lightening the load each year (unless you have the means to just throw a lot of cash at the issue right away - good for you if you do). I've taken many years to get to this point...

you can send me pack lists to blackdawg9@gmail

i know last time i had a xtra quart of fuel +what ever the stove held. dif stove/less fuel . pushing 3 pounds savings.

i think i had 2 mess kits. some plastic triangle thing. i'm ditching that.

1 nalgene instead of 2 . i carried more than i should of, cause i was attempting to lighten my wifes pack. i remember my granite gear supior was full.

Great start. I always look at stuff I took and did not use and then give a hard look at stuff I used, but didn't really need and wouldn't miss (much) if I left it at home.

I sent you a gear list from a short 3 day trip in the BW. The only thing that would have changed for a longer trip would be more food and fuel. It's worth noting that I do as much hiking as paddling in the BW and use much of the same equipment for both. I make up a list like this for every trip I take. The gear changes based on my whims as well as goals for the trip. The actual gear I carry will probably not be useful to you or someone else, since everyone makes different gear choices, but seeing what is not in my list might help.

Lots of weight cutting options and not all that expensive with common sense purchasing.Your size has little to do with it, gear choice does.
I take a spare change of clothes with extra socks and briefs, long john's to sleep in, 2 piece rain suit, hat wool gloves, face buff, down sweater.
My tent weight is under 3 pounds.
Sleeping bag and mattress in a bag 4 pounds.
Cooking gear fuel and food under 10 pounds for a 10 day trip.
MSR Windpro and 2 partial 8 oz. canisters. 27 oz. total.
Most all gear purchased used or clearance sale. Usually 1/2 new cost or even more.

After laying all out and making final decisions on what I was taking, adding some comfort items like books and a chair. 2 packs (I always double portage),

Under 50 pounds for 10 days all included except fishing pole, paddles, PFD. And I could trim this to 30 pounds total depending on the trip but as long as 2 trips per portage I have little reason.

butthead

Butthead's choices are an excellent example of how much comfort you can pack and still make the weight and number of packs reasonable. He and I pack quite a bit differently, but his choices are very effective and hard to argue with.

Also, his suggestion about buying used or on clearance is also right on the mark. Most of my gear has been acquired the same way. If your patient you can find almost anything this way. It's always surprising to me how may folks buy top of the line gear for a dream trip that never happens or they take it and decide this isn't the hobby for them.

I think SNS's suggestion to budget a little money each year to gear upgrades and go slow is really good advise. I'd add that if you're working on going lighter and leaner with regards to gear I'd wait to buy another pack until the end of the process. Hard to know what size pack to buy until you know the volume of gear your going to put in it.

Great topic. I love planning for trips and tweaking gear and like to see how others do it, even when our priorities are very different.

Something else, I think you mention a GG Superior pack. I know most on this forum use and recommend portage packs but they can hold a lot! I think differently and use nothing larger than a 60L (3600 CI) backpacking internal, GG Nimbus pack, I also do regular backpacking and the Nimbus series carries very comfortably. If it doesn't fit it doesn't go.
My typical backpack total weight is around 27 pounds for a 6 day hike.

butthead

80 to 100 pounds is crazy heavy for a normal length trip. on solos i typically just use a bivy sack and a tent footprint as a fly if needed. my sleeping bag is a thirty year old cats meow, no idea what it weighs. one pot is all you need. a stove and one change of clothes. everything should fit easily in my wilderness experience backpack. it is possible to single portage but i don't as it could lead to injuries. most of the time my biggest weight will be dog food, 85 pound labs go through tons of food.

What I’ve tried to do, buy one or 2 lightweight items each year to replace heavier things. I am an REI member, and every spring they have their 20% off sale, 20% off one regular price item, and one sale item. Used that for my UL tent and sleep pad last year. This year was my sleeping bag. Also, I saved up my Cabela’s credit card points to use on other gear, The Columbia ultra thin quick drying pants were a great addition, and much lighter than cotton pants. Also got a thin quick drying shirt from Cabela’s, a lot lighter than regular t shirts.
I know I could shrink my tackle box, and that is what I’m going to focus on this year. I’ve also found that soloing, I eat a lot less than in a group, so trying to cut that down. I also basecamp, so I do bring some extras like a Helinox chair, whiskey, and a steak for first night.

Managing weight involves multiple variables, one being how strong is the mule. As mine ages he appreciates the yearly investments in lightweight gear that packs well the one that feeds him has made over the years. And speaking about the one who feeds him....there is something to say about the ounces we shave off. In the end we carry what we (our mules) are willing to carry.
In addition to what is mentioned I shifted to quilts, lighter and pack so small in a good compression pack.

This year, I started using the Lighter Pack app to keep track of my gear choices and the weight. It was an eye opener for me to see how the little stuff adds up.
Lighter Pack

I am still working on my list for my first solo this summer, but I can tell you I have significantly decreased my weight in comparison to trips with my husband. I did decide that a 1P Bowfin Tarptent was very suitable for me and picked one up used. I was able to cut way back on my stove and cook kit weight by switching to simple "just add boiling water" meals.

Problem with Old age, I remember something I forgot days latter!

Buy a couple scales one to weigh small 0-10 pounds and a larger one say a bathroom scale to weight over 100 pounds. Start using them to check what the actual weights are. You might or will be surprised at actual weights, and have a point of honest comparison.

butthead

straighthairedcurly: " It was an eye opener for me to see how the little stuff adds up. "

This.

This is often the moment of epiphany for people who get serious about weight reduction...weigh everything.

I see people say (on this site and other sites and friends in-person): "It's so light! Weights basically nothing, therefore something I must bring!" To that person "basically nothing" might be several ounces or even several pounds.

And hey, paddle your own canoe, hike your own hike. Canoe Tripping the Light Fandango way is not for everyone.

But everything weighs something, and as straightHC so aptly put it, the little stuff really adds up.

i haven'tpacked my bag yet, with what i'm planning on keeping from last time.
as of today i still have the same tent and bag.
but i've replaced my stove and fuel cell soon. dropped 1 water bottle/1 pad/2 stripped mess kits [arent getting replaced]/my blacklite cook kit. but 11.3 pounds so far.

i may of had1 or 2 stearns ponchos and 1 small tarp. thats un accounted for yet.


if i run this trip, for the most part. i have no problem double portaging . their is just 1 portage of 3.5 miles. i want to run most of it, exactly 1 time.

Looks like you're making progress. I think when you're done you'll be amazed at how many pounds you've dropped from your kit and how little you miss the items you've left at home.

Don't forget to look at the small stuff. How big is your first aid kit and toiletry kit? Do you really need as much stuff as you have packed? Can you repackage stuff and take less of each item? How about food? Any excess packaging that can be removed and left at home. I know I may only be talking ounces here, but ounces turn into pounds and pounds turn into ounces (ok, I know its a cliche, but it carries some truth). And cutting this kind of weight costs nothing but a little time. I try to do an sul trip once a year (I find it helps me focus on what I really need as opposed to what I think I want) and the only way I can make weight on those trips is to really hone in on this kind of stuff.

I don't know if you're carrying fishing gear or not for your upcoming solo. If you are I'd really pare it down to a minimal kit since it sounds like every day is going to be a full travel day. Not saying don't bring fishing gear if it's a big reason for the trip, but watch what you're bringing. Fishing gear can add a lot of bulk and weight in a hurry.

Looking back on my notes from previous trips...one thing I am changing this year, putting sunscreen in a little 2 oz travel bottle instead of a 16 oz bottle from the store. I’m a ginger, so I basically bathe in sunscreen, but I still don’t need that much for a week. It’s a small thing, but several small things add up to a few pounds. I bring duct tape for an emergency repair kit, but I made it a point to grab a roll with only a small amount left on it, instead of a full roll. My first trip I didn’t think of that.

I think the OP hit the nail on the head mentioning cooking gear and I'd add food.
I got rid of everything except tea pot, if it ain't made in that or on coal it better be eaten without cooking or it doesn't come along.

You can start with a much lighter 2 person tent and a down 30 degree sleeping bag. Look into Tarptent for a light tent at a comparably reasonable prices. Many lightweight down sleeping bag options. You can easily lose 8lbs with just those 2 adjustments. That's significant.For clothes just have paddle clothes and camp clothes. If a roaring fire isn't a big thing for you. Leave the saw and axe at home. There's a lot of small stuff that can be broken up by hand or foot that can be burned.For a cook kit a lot depends on what you like to eat. If you're good with add only water meals then a Pocket Rocket canister type stove is a great option. Just bring a small pot, cup and bowl. Look hard at your gear list. Decide what's necessary and what's nice to have. Nothing wrong with nice to have items but that's where you can cut the weight if you want to. My packed gear for a 5 day trip. That a CCS Explorer Pack

blackdawg9: "i haven'tpacked my bag yet, with what i'm planning on keeping from last time.


Don't pack the bag. Weight each and every item and write it down or spreadsheet it. Data is king.

Share the data and the kind folks here can give you plenty of options. You have lots of opportunity and as other have said, you can get your base kit (no food/water) under 20# without going too expensive. Certainly a few changes will save you 15-20#.

Data Data Data.

A fun game would be seeing the list and have people provide options for the top 5 items by weight and see where you go with it. Or better yet, a budget and see what gets suggested to change.

John

jfinn: "

blackdawg9: " “

"

Took a while to get there, but I’ll agree with the consensus that the best way to cut weight is to first know where it comes from. Weigh everything, make a spreadsheet, then you can start cutting small amounts and see it add up!

What different people consider ‘heavy’ is subjective, but OP: that sleeping bag is incredibly heavy!

I find myself carrying less and less as I age. I have never weighed my solo gear but I bet for a five day trip my pack doesn't weigh 40 pounds. Solo tent, light bag in season, no cooking gear other than a pot, freeze dried dinners, almost not clothes, no axe or saw, no bear vault or long rope and nothing extra that I don't need. Funny, I have never felt I was missing anything that I wanted. I do bring a pair of camp shoes, tarp, a chair, solo tent, exped pad, etc. Since I tend to paddle and portage all day long on solos I am very content with no fire at night. I do bring a bottle of booze, rain gear,a book and cigars.
What else could a person need? At least it works for me but everyone has different priorities.

GraniteCliffs: "I find myself carrying less and less as I age. I have never weighed my solo gear but I bet for a five day trip my pack doesn't weigh 40 pounds. Solo tent, light bag in season, no cooking gear other than a pot, freeze dried dinners, almost not clothes, no axe or saw, no bear vault or long rope and nothing extra that I don't need. Funny, I have never felt I was missing anything that I wanted. I do bring a pair of camp shoes, tarp, a chair, solo tent, exped pad, etc. Since I tend to paddle and portage all day long on solos I am very content with no fire at night. I do bring a bottle of booze, rain gear,a book and cigars.
What else could a person need? At least it works for me but everyone has different priorities."

I like your style

Great thread. I invested in a few pieces of gear this year in preparation for my first solo with the idea of cutting weight. Than as many have recommended, I weighed each individual item and have began making decisions accordingly. Fun stuff.

As I was considering another potentially expensive purchase with weight savings in mind, I stopped and chuckled. The truth is, the biggest bang for my buck right now in saving trip weight would be to lose weight myself!

I certainly could handle losing the equivalent weight of an extra booze bottle, a new camp chair, and potentially even a lounging hammock. But none the less, I'll spend $75 on a new cook set to save 14oz instead. :)

It helps if you keep your gear list in some kind of spreadsheet that can be sorted by weight. Look from the heaviest items down to the lightest - items at the top of the list are most promising for weight saving. Usually number 1 is the paddler, number 2 is the canoe etc. Shedding 15lbs accumulated during off-season from your own weight is inexpensive and doesn't involve sacrifices in comfort when it counts most: during the trip.

REI sale starts today. i've been looking at tents and the weight/space savings really isn' there. unless you go all mesh. then it stops being a 3 season tent.

it may be my sleeping bag, i should focus on. i can drop 2.6 pounds apx: with a wiggies 30 degree. summer camping is fun, but most of mine , near home seems to be in the spring in fall, when temps dropping low at night. the last week during lock down. i spent 4 or 5 nights out. when temps dropping down to the low 30's. i will have to keep better records of weight and what i brought.


do you you guys keep the factory stuff sack or pick up a after market compression sack. to make it smaller?

blackdawg9: "REI sale starts today. i've been looking at tents and the weight/space savings really isn' there. unless you go all mesh. then it stops being a 3 season ten

do you you guys keep the factory stuff sack or pick up a after market compression sack. to make it smaller? "

I don't use either. I use a liner in my pack (i usually find a turkey basting bag works for the amount of gear I take) and just stuff my sleeping bag or quilt in the bottom before loading my other stuff. If you have a larger pack or take more stuff than I do, there are larger liners around. You can do a search to see what others use.

blackdawg9: "REI sale starts today. i've been looking at tents and the weight/space savings really isn' there. unless you go all mesh. then it stops being a 3 season tent. "

At 8.6 pounds almost any tent you buy should save you pounds, if not 4 to 5 pounds. The Copper Spur 2 is 3lbs. 2oz and is not all mesh. The more mesh the better as it will be a condensation nightmare without it.

These are great for keeping your bag small and dry.

Mesh tents are three season tents. A big Agnes 2 person Copper Spur is under three pounds and three seasons. The difference in air infiltration between no-see-um mesh and rip stop nylon is not all that significant- it's mostly in your mind.

blackdawg9:
do you you guys keep the factory stuff sack or pick up a after market compression sack. to make it smaller? "

I much prefer using after market compression sacks for clothes and sleeping bag. It keeps items tidy and together and much smaller. I keep my sleeping bag, liner (when I bring one), and inflatable pillow in one sack. I keep my clothes in another compression sack. Tent stay in the original stuff sack.

I also put my sleeping bag and clothes in compression stuff sacks - specifically the Sea-to-Summit eVent ones, which also provide those (possibly life-saving items) with another layer of protection against wet.

You could save pounds on a 3-season tent without spending a fortune even if you got a 2-man tent. Tents without any mesh are 4-season tents, but you'd have major condensation problems. There are options between no mesh and all mesh.

REI Passage comes in 1 and 2-man versions. Will cut your tent weight in half. Is on sale now at REI.

Here's a review of budget backpacking tents by a knowledgeable reviewer that you might find interesting.

straighthairedcurly: "

blackdawg9:
do you you guys keep the factory stuff sack or pick up a after market compression sack. to make it smaller? "

I much prefer using after market compression sacks for clothes and sleeping bag. It keeps items tidy and together and much smaller. I keep my sleeping bag, liner (when I bring one), and inflatable pillow in one sack. I keep my clothes in another compression sack. Tent stay in the original stuff sack."

This is my preference too. Inside the pack liner so effectively double layer protected. Use the Sea-to-Summit Event canoe compression sacks. Small for clothes, medium for sleeping bag.

On a hot windless night even mesh could present too much a barrier for air flow making inside of the tent too stuffy. Traveling in the mid-latitudes I'd avoid any 3-season tent with non-fully mesh doors.

blackdawg9: "REI sale starts today. i've been looking at tents and the weight/space savings really isn' there. unless you go all mesh. then it stops being a 3 season tent.


As stated, check out the BA cooper Spur, I've used both of mine in 4 season environments. I have the 2 person and use it for both solo and tandem trips. It is a great tent, super light and durable if cared for (I also have had the 4 person a few years longer) and has plenty of space for 2 mats and decent head space. It is always on the short list of favorite 1-2 person tents on this forum or backpacking forums. If you are in a shoulder season, you can ditch the innie and do the fast fly set up that I think takes it right at 2 lbs. Um, huge weight savings. I often think of going bivy and tarp and getting new lighter models (of both) would save me about l pound vs. the fast fly set up. But the fast fly is free standing and quick with greater coverage so I stick with what I have in the Cooper Spur and save the $250-$350.

You on the other hand could be saving 5 lbs.


John

I'm leaving tomorrow for a 5 day trip so I thought I'd weigh my gear. I use 1 pack, a CCS Explorer. My total is just under 35lbs for everything. Almost all of my food is add hot water only and my camp gear is backpacking ultralight(ish) kind of stuff. My one splurge is a Helinox Zero chair about a pound. I can take my food bag out for trimming if need be which is an Ursack inside a water proof stuff sack.

i weighed in this morning with a bare pack.
granite gear supior and plastic liner.
north face rock 22
sleeping bag. i think this is what i'm planning on replacing. to knock off 2 pounds.
msr sweet water filter
a heavier svea, than i would be bringing. about the same amount of fuel and spare fuel can.

anyways, bathroom scale says 20.8 pounds so far.

blackdawg9: "i weighed in this morning with a bare pack.
granite gear supior and plastic liner.
north face rock 22
sleeping bag. i think this is what i'm planning on replacing. to knock off 2 pounds.
msr sweet water filter
a heavier svea, than i would be bringing. about the same amount of fuel and spare fuel can.


anyways, bathroom scale says 20.8 pounds so far."

Congratulations! That's very respectable.

HappyHuskies: "

blackdawg9: "i weighed in this morning with a bare pack.
granite gear supior and plastic liner.
north face rock 22
sleeping bag. i think this is what i'm planning on replacing. to knock off 2 pounds.
msr sweet water filter
a heavier svea, than i would be bringing. about the same amount of fuel and spare fuel can.



anyways, bathroom scale says 20.8 pounds so far."

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that your base weight (all of the gear and equipment you are taking with you) now weights 20.8 pounds not including consumables (food, water and fuel). If that is correct, congratulations! That's very respectable and should be very comfortable even without significant lighter equipment acquisitions.

Do you have a complete list of what is in your new kit? If so and you would not mind sharing I'd love to see it.
"

it's still big and bulky.
i don't have a med kit in it or a bear bag rope or bug dope or spork or titan pot. no map/compass/rain gear/nalgene/ but i'm seeing some hope here of cutting it down


just a
- 12 year old 2 person tent w/ a foot print and rain fly. 6.11 LBS
- 3- season 30 degree sleeping bag, that the zipper is thinking of going. 6.6 LB [i think i can get it down to 4 LBS with a wiggies]
-1.9 LB + svea stove. with a pump/snow peak 700/bic /partial full 11oz fuel bottle [i know you can drop weight with iso stoves] [ i can always burn off some xtra.]

i think that was everything .
- msr miniwork sweet water. 1LB

it's still big and bulky.
i don't have a med kit in it or a bear bag rope or bug dope or spork or titan pot. no map/compass/rain gear/nalgene/ but i'm seeing some hope here of cutting it down



just a
- 12 year old 2 person tent w/ a foot print and rain fly. 6.11 LBS
- 3- season 30 degree sleeping bag, that the zipper is thinking of going. 6.6 LB [i think i can get it down to 4 LBS with a wiggies]
-1.9 LB + svea stove. with a pump/snow peak 700/bic /partial full 11oz fuel bottle [i know you can drop weight with iso stoves] [ i can always burn off some xtra.]


i think that was everything .
- msr miniwork sweet water. 1LB"

Definitely going in the right direction.

While you're thinking about sleeping bags, you might want to broaden your search. The Wiggy's will keep you warm, but it's still relatively heavy and bulky, largely because it's synthetic. Have you considered a down quilt? A Hammock Gear Economy quilt in regular length and wide width rated to 30 F will be under $200 and will be highly compressible. Weight should be under 24 ounces. May not be a direction you want to go, but worth consideration. Whether you ultimately decide to stick with a bag or try a quilt, I'd think about down. Saves a lot of weight and packs small.

I know some worry about getting a down bag wet, but honestly you need to keep any sleeping gear dry. I don't think anyone who has tried sleeping in a wet synthetic bag found it a lot of fun either.

With regards to the Svea, is it the 123? If so does the weight include the cup? If so I'd consider leaving it behind. Also, do you need the pump for a summer trip? I always found mine self pressurized just fine. This only applies to the Svea 123, so may not be applicable at all.

In any case keep at it. It's a process I enjoy. Once you think you've got things dialed in would not be a bad idea to do a short trip close to home just to be sure you haven't forgotten anything or see if you don't have an item or two that could still be left behind.

This message has had HTML content edited out of it.


With regards to the Svea, is it the 123? If so does the weight include the cup? If so I'd consider leaving it behind. Also, do you need the pump for a summer trip? I always found mine self pressurized just fine. This only applies to the Svea 123, so may not be applicable at all.




i have a 123 and a 123R. this was off of the optimus web site. for a stock model for weights.

when i started out, i picked up a R model and bought the hype about needing a pump. i didn't like dousing it with gas and trying to melt brass. then i saw something on wrapping it in stove gasket and trip wire, to pre heat the stem. then found a piece of brake tubing. to use as a straw, for the fuel. i still try to save fuel on the pre heat. but weight includes my substituted 700 and not the alunimin cup/ + the fuel/pump/

the R model still has some quirks, i don't like. but it's a good solid stove. i pulled the cleaning needle and picked a old style pick, making it a franken stove. [ i just grabbed my Rkit. because it was already all bagged up and ready to be dropped in the pack.

so here recently, i found a old svea 123 slant valve, original configuration and i love it. it's easier to hand warm pre heat. i can even tip it on it's side and dribble a few drops of fuel out. to pre heat it.

> a few weeks ago. i was trying to see how many boils/simmers. i could get on a half cup of fuel, making oat meal every morning. i think i hit 8 or 9 times, but that doesn't include clean up or coffee or tea. on a 3 day trip, it's enough fuel. on a 4 or 5 day,it's just cutting it to close for comfort. i think 1 cup of xtra fuel is more than enough. [years back i had a inline cleaning needle let go and i just don't trust . the coleman 442 style anymore. the whisperlights, eat more and waste more fuel on pre heat. iso stoves, the jury is still out. i wonder if the cans will leak, like 1 LB propane cans do. i f igure your at least need to bring 2 small cans, for resilancy. ]

> on the wiggies. i'm built like a logger and toss and turn all night and need a xtra tall and wide, so i'm not bound up.

As a long time Svea user I will found that the Whisperlite used with reflector and wind screen is noticeably more efficient than the Svea. For either stove consider carrying a small (2-4oz) squeeze bottle of alcohol for priming. What I hate about the Svea is having to constantly fill the tank- any savings in pre-heat fuel is almost certainly expended in spillage and drips on the tank fill.

I make meals that require some 10-15 minutes of simmer time. I find the boil in a bag freeze dried food toxically inedible.

The Svea 123r weighs 19 ounces with the cup. For it's size and weight there are a lot of better options. I have mostly MSR stoves but lots of other's have passed thru my use. The heaviest I have now is a Dragonfly add in 10 ounces of fuel (my carry amount for up to 7 nites), fuel bottle, pump, base, and windscreen,
The lightest liquid fueld stove I have is a Simmerlight
If I want canister fuel the Aloc stove or PocketRocket
Both with 8 ounce canister, windscreen, and .9L titanium pot/lid.

I use 8 ounce canisters and 10 ounces of Coleman Camp Fuel to cook for the same 7 days,
the only real advantage to canister is convenience in use as a fuel bottle pump and 10 ounces of fuel weights 14.9 ounces and the 8 ounce canister 13.7 new.

butthead

Hell it's raining yet, 3 days straight so I was bored and anticipating a trip.
Pack and contents less than 28 pounds.


Sierra Designs BackCountry Bed 15 degree, Exped 60x20x2 inch down 5s, velour pillow cove (stuff with clothes to sleep on). 3 pounds 14 ounces.


1 pair pants, 1 long sleeve wind shirt, 2 pairs socks, 2 pairs boxer briefs, long johns top bottom, towel, face towel, personal hygiene kit. 4 pounds 14 ounces.



Big Sky International Chinook solo tent, cold season interior heavy 3 pole frame set, footprint, guylines, stakes, 2 GoalZerro LED solar lanterns. 3 pounds 14 ounces.


Ursack, Simmerlight stove, windscreen, Alocs 1L pot & lid, titanium fork & spoon, cut down spatula, pot gripper, dried food for 4-5 days, coffee and Mio drink mix. 4 pounds 7 ounces.


Small items for top pocket. Pack contents with REI raincoat, fuel bottle/pump and 10 ounces of fuel, BA chair, CamelBack 3 quart water bladder.


And my GG Nimus Trace 60L backpack. 3 pounds 13 ounces empty.

This will be for a backpack trip. I did not include, MSR Trailshot filter 6.5 ounces, a paperback book, nor GPS and maps.

If this was a canoe trip a second pack food for 7-10 days, saw, tarp and cordage, flyfishing gear, another book, PFD, 2 paddles added to the pile.

None of this gear is new and most all bought at clearance, discontinued, open item, prices and from the used market Ebay, including the sleeping bag, pack, pack bags, stove, pot, raincoat, chair.

butthead

Several folks here have suggested ditching the sleeping bag in favor of a simple down quilt. Do you still use a pad of some sort at the bottom and then layer of long underwear or ?? to keep from laying directly on the plastic pad? Then the quilt just gets used as a blanket?

Though I do not own a quilt I have used some. Think of it as a sleeping bag without a zipper. Many use straps instead to secure them to a sleeping pad. The pad is needed or an underquilt in a hammock. Quilts are popular with light trippers and a bit lighter than sleeping bags but when an entire sleeping system is considered I have not been able to justify a quilt over the BA sleeved bags (my 35 degree Horsethief weighs under 2 pounds and is warm for me to freezing temps), or my Sierra Designs Back Country bed (2 pounds 2 ounce 15 degree). Yes a quilt is lighter but not a lot, and that often depends on the fill used.

butthead

I have been traveling North for many years with a variety of different people. We never thought too much about weight, because whatever it was, we were young enough to carry it.

I provided most of the gear for the group, so I always erred on the safe side and brought anything and everything we might need.

Those days are gone now, and solo trips are starting to become more common for me. So, this thread has been very helpful in my attempt to change those evil ways.
I appreciate everyone who has posted suggestions for cutting weight, most of which I would have never thought of on my own.

So far, the most difficult item to give up was my canvas Duluth packs. A couple of which have been with me for 40 plus years.

Thanks for the help.

MB

When I use a quilt I carry a very thin Egyptian cotton liner. The top of it slips over the mat, the bottom half is sewn closed- rectangular. Nicer on the skin than nylon or whatever my Nemo mat is surfaced in. My quilt is 20 degree 800 fill down (probably good to thirty degrees)- noticeably smaller and lighter than my bag. Many Big Agnes bags are really quilts with much better designed means of staying attached to the pad. I can fit quilt, sea to summit air pillow and cotton liner in an extra small sea to summit event compression sack.

The big 3 are going to be the biggest savings in one shot. Your tent, sleeping bag, and pack. You posted that you want to stick with a 2 person tent. Have you tried a hammock setup or open to one? You can get into some pretty light weights with a hammock setup which would still give you a tarp to stay dry when it rains.

The biggest thing is to sit down and go through all your gear you take and decide what you absolutely have to have and what is actually a luxury item. Then decide of those luxury items you are willing to carry. Then start upgrading the have to have items to smaller/lighter options as you are willing to spend the money on it. Another thing to consider what comforts you are willing to go without. For instance meals. If you are ok with eating meals that only need to have boiling water added to it and don't care on the length of time it takes to boil said water. Then boiling water over an open fire would cut down on the need for a stove and fuel or use an ul alchole stove when you cant have a fire.

Check out lighterpack.com to help track your gear and its weights. If you are on FB check out the group called Ultralight backpacking. A lot of people are getting their base weight to 10 pounds and less and a lot of the gear and principles can be carried over to canoe tripping.

I've been working on cutting my weights down over the last 2 years. My hammock/tarp setup is under 2 pounds, top quilt and under quilt (both 20 deg) together are sub 3 pounds and no need for a sleeping pad. My alcohol stove weights in at 27 grams and use titanium pots/spork. Where I always get hung up is I love photography and always want to grab my good camera gear.

i have a eno hammock , used with a sleeping bag. i sleep cold in them, not well and am trying to keep a budget, with out starting over. i agree you can cut weight there. late summer trips, the bugs are out and you need the bug shields

blackdawg9: "i have a eno hammock , used with a sleeping bag. i sleep cold in them, not well and am trying to keep a budget, with out starting over. i agree you can cut weight there. late summer trips, the bugs are out and you need the bug shields"

Part of the reason you were cold with a sleeping bag is because sleeping bags compress with your weight ontop of them, effectively making the underside useless. With an under-quilt that problem goes away.

Eno hammocks really aren't designed for sleeping except for the smallest of people. They are to short to be able to lay flat on the diagonal.

My hammock has the bug net built in so no need to worry about the bugs and still just over a pound for the hammock and suspension system.

They aren't for everyone. But I've found that I sleep much better in a hammock than I do in a tent anymore.

I'm thinking of tripling with 3 medium loads vs. the normal 2 heavy loads while double portaging. I will be slower on the trail but will be more comfortable and less likely to hurt myself.

If I am not in a rush, why not? That way I can eat a little better too. So I will be lightening my loads but walking a lot more. I have a big volume solo and haul a 50 lb. dog and all her food too. And her pup tent! :)

TomT: "I'm thinking of tripling with 3 medium loads vs. the normal 2 heavy loads while double portaging. I will be slower on the trail but will be more comfortable and less likely to hurt myself.


If I am not in a rush, why not? That way I can eat a little better too. So I will be lightening my loads but walking a lot more. I have a big volume solo and haul a 50 lb. dog and all her food too. And her pup tent! :)"

I triple portage now. I'm turning 70 in a few weeks and I can't take the chance of putting too much on my back at any one time. At 5'6" and 155 lbs I don't have the muscle to do otherwise safely.

Triple portaging does involve repeating a lot of scenery on the walks, but I just consider it a part of the process. Besides, that smell of balsam - I don't mind smelling it five times!

Lots of good information here, I am still trying to lighten my clothing load and I am willing to spend some money in that area. I solo in early to mid-September. To Butthead and others who have listed your clothing, would that work for you in the early fall? What are some good lightweight suggestions for keeping warm?

Thanks!

Dave

Dave,

Odd you mentioned Balsam. My wife has taken pity on me and somewhere bought a cloth bag of balsam shavings. When she finds me looking longingly at pictures from a previous trip, or scouring the net for hope of a border opening, she rubs the bag a few times to bring out the scent and lays it on top of my head.
She is wise that way.

MB

MossBack: " Dave,


Odd you mentioned Balsam. My wife has taken pity on me and somewhere bought a cloth bag of balsam shavings. When she finds me looking longingly at pictures from a previous trip, or scouring the net for hope of a border opening, she rubs the bag a few times to bring out the scent and lays it on top of my head.
She is wise that way.


MB"

A clever way to smell balsam without portaging. Hmmm......

Your wife is a truly understanding person, MB!

RetiredDave: "

TomT: "I'm thinking of tripling with 3 medium loads vs. the normal 2 heavy loads while double portaging. I will be slower on the trail but will be more comfortable and less likely to hurt myself.



If I am not in a rush, why not? That way I can eat a little better too. So I will be lightening my loads but walking a lot more. I have a big volume solo and haul a 50 lb. dog and all her food too. And her pup tent! :)"

I triple portage now. I'm turning 70 in a few weeks and I can't take the chance of putting too much on my back at any one time. At 5'6" and 155 lbs I don't have the muscle to do otherwise safely.


Triple portaging does involve repeating a lot of scenery on the walks, but I just consider it a part of the process. Besides, that smell of balsam - I don't mind smelling it five times!


Lots of good information here, I am still trying to lighten my clothing load and I am willing to spend some money in that area. I solo in early to mid-September. To Butthead and others who have listed your clothing, would that work for you in the early fall? What are some good lightweight suggestions for keeping warm?

Thanks!

Dave"

I go at the same time of year and bring a lightweight hooded down jacket. If the weather is unseasonably warm I might bring just a down vest. Down is the best insulation for the weight. I’m going to use my rain gear more as a layer too.

Sierra.com has this hooded jacket marked down from $199 to $75. The color wouldn't be my first choice but if it's a solid product that price is a good one.

Down Jacket
*this one is synthetic fill.

The last several years I have been tripping in early June, and have seen 45 degrees, wet and windy, as well as 95 degrees dead calm and sunny. I try to carry clothes that in the coldest expected temps, I wear all the layers I have. I have even worn my life jacket in camp one day.
Medium weight thermal layer, canoe pants, wicking t-shirt, long sleeve wool pullover (light weight), and rain jacket and pants.
I try to only use my thermals for sleeping, but have been known to leave them on during breakfast!

RetiredDave: "

TomT: "I'm thinking of tripling with 3 medium loads vs. the normal 2 heavy loads while double portaging. I will be slower on the trail but will be more comfortable and less likely to hurt myself.



If I am not in a rush, why not? That way I can eat a little better too. So I will be lightening my loads but walking a lot more. I have a big volume solo and haul a 50 lb. dog and all her food too. And her pup tent! :)"

I triple portage now. I'm turning 70 in a few weeks and I can't take the chance of putting too much on my back at any one time. At 5'6" and 155 lbs I don't have the muscle to do otherwise safely.

Triple portaging does involve repeating a lot of scenery on the walks, but I just consider it a part of the process. Besides, that smell of balsam - I don't mind smelling it five times!

Lots of good information here, I am still trying to lighten my clothing load and I am willing to spend some money in that area. I solo in early to mid-September. To Butthead and others who have listed your clothing, would that work for you in the early fall? What are some good lightweight suggestions for keeping warm?

Thanks!


Dave"

Hi Dave,

I like your attitude. Sounds like you have a good time and don't stress the stuff you can't control. Sounds good to me.

I'm about your size and not much younger. Here is a list of the clothing I carry and wear on trips in early spring (late April and early May) as well as October. I've used this gear with overnight temperatures down to 15 F and daytime highs as low as the mid to upper 30's F. Highest temperatures were probably around 60 F. With just very minor changes I've been using this basic setup for the last 10 years. The longest trip I took during this time was 10 days. Most of my trips are shorter than this, but I live in the area and it's easy to get out for short spontaneous trips. Weights are in ounces unless otherwise labeled.

I will say that the silk long johns don't add much warmth, but I like them for sleep wear as they are very light and pack very small. As set of lightweight synthetic or wool would add more warmth and be more versatile.

The list gets tweaked a little bit depending on expected conditions and my mood. If I expect warmer days I might add in a merino short sleeved tshirt and leave the Kokatat and down at home, for example. Sometimes I'll add a pair of camp shoes, generally New Balance Minimus that would add 8.9 ounces.



Clothing Carried
Zpacks Rain Wrap 1.90
Rab Pulse Pull-On Rain Jacket 6.63
Terra Mar Silk Long Underwear 3.50
Fleece Gloves 1.13
Darn Tough Micro Crew Socks 2.63
Mtn Hardware Micro Fleece Beanie 0.75
Rab Wind Shirt 3.13
Stoic Down Jacket 6.50

Sub Total
26.15 oz.
1.63 lbs.

Clothing Worn
0.00
Socks – Darn Tough Micro Crew 2.63
Briefs – 2XIST Synthetic 2.38
Long Sleeve T-shirt – Kokatat Wool/Poly 5.13
Zip Neck Mid layer – Patagonia 6.13
Prana Pants 11.75
Crag Hoppers Fleece Pullover 10.13
Head Sweats Cap 1.63
Inov-8 Roclite 295 w Dirty Girl Gaiters 21.88

Sub Total
61.64 oz.
3.85 lbs.


Clothing Total
Total
87.79 oz.
5.49 lbs.

I think the most important factor in weight savings is how heavy is your WALLET! Buy the best you can within your budget. You may consider timing the Amazon delivery for when your wife is gone, believe me it saves explaining why this piece of gear is crucial and not "just more camping crap"
Leaving 4am Monday for a 6 day trip. Thanks to everyone on all the forum sites for making the last few months bearable.

Thanks to all of you for directing my stimulus $ toward clothing that sounds so perfect. I don't know how many more years I have paddling and portaging by myself, but I'm going to be the lightest, least wealthy dude out there. You'll know me right away, I'll be the guy in an REI down jacket rattling a money cup at the end of your favorite portage!

Dave

One weight no one seemed to touch on is your own personal body weight. If you can drop twenty pounds think of the effort well spent. Otherwise focus on the three to five of the big equipment items.

1. Canoe
2. Tent
3. Sleeping bag
4. Sleeping pad
5. Cooking items

A final note: Sometimes it’s just evaluating everything to see if you really need it or if you can reduce its weight by replacing it.