BWCA Composite Boat Builders? Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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jfinn
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05/07/2020 01:02PM  
So this may be a crazy idea, I obviously don't know anything (well almost anything) about building a boat but here I go.

I have a Sawyer Summersong, I really enjoy. I enjoy it but don't trip in it as it is a goldenglass at around 45# and I am a gram weenie. Is it possible for someone to use the boat as a mold and build a composite boat with it and preferably in the low 30 pound range? Dumb question but I don't see examples on the web of people who have done it with an existing canoe v. strongback/mold/canoe.

Second, if so, anyone interested in the project or any recommendations or referrals to someone who would take on a project like that?

Why? Like I said I like this canoe. I have a light wooden tripper that is a fine boat and very fast and light at 30#, just not the same primary stability and long term durability I want in a BWCA tripper. The summersong checks all the boxes for me with glide, primary and secondary stability, loadability, comfort, ballance, glide, speed, blah blah blah. I easily prefer it over a magic, prism, my stripper and a couple other other-classed solos I have paddled.

I appreciate the feedback.

John
 
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Moonman
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05/07/2020 04:06PM  
John there are actually a few guys who have done what you are thinking of. Not sure if I can mention other canoe forums but maybe google Alan Gage, Andy‘Stripper Guy’ as those are teo off the top of my head I know have done it for sure. They are on other forums somewhat local to northeastern USA.

Moonman
 
Arcola
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05/07/2020 05:17PM  
The over-head cost is a killer at 2-5k to build a mold, and ya gotta love working with composites. The Summer Song is a beauty for sure and worth IMO, but you'd need to do it yourself. The other way is to take the lines off of the boat and make it into a stripper. If you can build it, you can fix it; after all, 10-20 years of use will kill almost any boat kevlar or a stripper and you can always build a new one. With a mold you've gotta store that beast.
 
jfinn
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05/08/2020 07:01AM  
Moonman: "John there are actually a few guys who have done what you are thinking of. Not sure if I can mention other canoe forums but maybe google Alan Gage, Andy‘Stripper Guy’ as those are teo off the top of my head I know have done it for sure. They are on other forums somewhat local to northeastern USA.


Moonman"


Thanks Moonman, I have read some of Alan's stuff in the past. I'll peruse the other forums that I usually don't venture into.

Thanks,
John
 
05/08/2020 08:35PM  
https://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=1159316&forumID=160&confID=1

Check out this thread in the builders forum. This composite boat was built over a wood strip hull, but the technique would work fine over another composite hull. He made a wood strip insert to stiffen the bottom. You wouldn't have that option, but foam would work just fine.

You may consider legal issues. I believe David Yost designed the Summersong and he is still an active designer. Even though the Summersong is no longer in production copying it would still raise legal issues. Are they important enough to worry about? I'll leave that up to you.
 
muddyfeet
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05/09/2020 02:42PM  
Yes, as already mentioned, you can take a composite copy off of a hull- using it as a male mold. Alan, and JimD have both posted build threads on it. You need to be realistic about the weight goal, though.

With composites, the resin is the heavy part. The amount of resin depends partly on how much fabric (what type and how many layers) is used, but also on the construction technique. The builds mentioned above were hand-laminated layups, which is simple to do, but doesn’t compact the laminate stack well and ends up leaving the hull resin-rich. In addition, building over a male mold means that you will have to fair the outer surface of the hull by ‘filling the weave’ with more resin and sanding until smooth. The light composite boats that are commercially available are made in a female mold using either hand layup/vacuum bagging, or vacuum infusion to compact the laminate: increasing the fiber:resin ratio and resulting in a lighter hull. Use of a female mold means they all come out with a glossy outer surface without any additional finishing needed. Additionally, some techniques allow for ribs/core/gunwales to all be infused at the same time- saving further weight. It can and has been done at home, but requires plug/female mold construction.

You could certainly vacuum bag a boat over a male mold, but still would have to finish the outside smooth.

I think Jim’s Kevlar pearl ended up around 36lbs- the stripper he made it from was 49.
On the other hand, there have been some really lightweight stripper builds also. Strip thickness, wood species, fiberglass weight, and especially seat/gunwale/trim options can be tuned to make a sub-30lb solo tripper.
 
singlebladecanoe
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05/10/2020 11:25AM  
I've actually done this before many many years ago. I had an Old Town Disco 169 that I wanted to try and make into a Kevlar version. Did the whole thing in my living room at the time. I sat the canoe upside down on a pair of saw horses and completely wrapped it with a bulk roll of suran wrap. Then coated it with a mold release. Then laid up the kevlar/epoxy on the outside. After the first layer I then laid in foam ribs and floor. Then laid a second layer of kevlar/epoxy. Once it was done and cured it came right off the old town canoe. Trimmed the exes off and made wood gunnels, end caps, thwarts, and seats. Didn't turn out to shabby for not knowing what I was doing at the time.
 
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