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ron77
member (8)member
  
06/06/2020 01:42AM  
I recently bought an Advantage and took her on my first trip! While a lot of fun it took a bit of getting used to after paddling tandems solo. Loved the lightweight, speed and speed into the wind. What I didn’t like was it felt unstable especially when fishing, I paddled to shore when I had a 35” pike on to land it haha. I’ve dumped it once and once you get to a certain point man she goes over quick! Anyways I was wondering what paddle you recommend. I mostly used a canoe paddle but also used a kayak paddle, it got me wet and got waterlogged after a while, but it seemed faster. Also I live near the Canadian Shield so as careful as I was I gave her a lot of scratches. At what point do you mend these and how do you do it? I put epoxy on the tips and it wore off in one trip and the Kevlar is exposed a bit, so I’ll need to reapply. And finally any tips on how to trim with the wind? I could paddle pretty well into a wind up to 40 kmph, but I dog tracked a lot with the wind which was a bit scary. I tried evenly distributing the load and this helped a lot. I compensated by constantly doing corrective strokes. Otherwise I love the canoe I never went so far so fast! Thanks
 
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06/06/2020 09:32AM  
Sounds like it's your first true solo. Solo canoes all feel that way to a beginning soloist. Comfort with the stability and your ability will improve with time on the water. I bought my Advantage after paddling many other solo canoes (for more than a few years), and thought it was particularly stable, but by then I had been paddling solo canoes exclusively.
I fly fish and bait cast for pike a lot from it and have fought and unhooked several 42+ inch pike. Largest I ever kept was 36 inches though.

I use truck bed spay paint on my stems, it wears quickly but can be stripped off and re-applied easily. Scratches on the bottom only get a thin application of marine varnish when they build up. Friend have used tape on protective strips KeelEazy and polyester or epoxy impregnated felt strips for skid plates.

The Advantage likes a rear weight bias for wind. I use 2 packs and in wing will pull the front toward me and the rear larger pack back as far as I can, I save seat adjustment for extra as needed trim. By settling the back end I can push the front in my intended direction. Other Advantage paddlers may not but this is how I do it often (I'm sure others will add to this).

butthead
 
ron77
member (8)member
  
06/06/2020 10:26AM  
Thanks so much for your feedback Butthead! I’ll definitely try the truck bed spray paint and marine varnish tip. I did find by the end of my trip to be a lot more comfortable in it. The only time other time I felt nervous was heading into a very strong headwind with whitecaps and gusts. If I tried to turn back would I dump in the cross swells? Mind you I probably wouldn’t have even been out there in my prospector. Also I’m wondering what your paddle preference is? And yes this is my first solo so it’s a learning curve for me. I thought of getting neoprene socks so that getting my feet wet at portages would be less concerning. Thanks so much again for your help :)
 
06/06/2020 01:26PM  
The more you paddle it the more at ease you'll be. I would suggest taking it out on a warm day and play around with it. Work on leaning it with your hips while keeping your should inside the canoe. Learn a good reverse sweep or brace stroke for stability.Your conference will increase. A double blade is nice,I would still get a decent bent shaft for your Advantage
 
06/06/2020 02:00PM  
ron77: " If I tried to turn back would I dump in the cross swells? Also I’m wondering what your paddle preference is? And yes this is my first solo so it’s a learning curve for me. Thanks so much again for your help :)"


Yeah, turning to cross thru swell is a matter of timing. Easy to do wrong. When I turn 180 in such conditions, I slow down a bit to get ready for some hard paddling. Watch the wave frequency and commit just as you top a wave and I do as much of my turn quickly while in the trough. I can take that in pieces 4-45's, 2-90's to reverse direction, but you need to concentrate and keep your head. No time for sight seeing!

I carry 2 ZRE Carbon Lite paddles, 48 inch 8inch wide, 15 degree bent for traveling, 50 inch straight shaft 8 1/2 inch wide for play and control in tough condition. I'm 5feet 6inch, wide in shoulders (and other areas), and long arms. Personally, no fan of yak paddles, probably get warts from them (wink/nudge at Blatz)!

This is just my way, again I am sure some of the bunch-O-Advantage paddlers will chime in with alternate thoughts.

butthead
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
06/06/2020 04:45PM  
As noted, solos take a bit of getting used to. I have a Bell Magic. The first few times I took it out I felt like it was going to dump. It did two times getting in. The trick is to keep your weight centered in the boat with hip action. After a little experience, fishing and generally moving around is all good. No experience w/an Advantage, but the other thing that helped with the Magic was lowering the seat. I bought it used and it had kneeling seat drops. I installed the standard drops that lowered the seat about 2 inches. Big improvement.
 
06/06/2020 04:50PM  
Hey now Butthead I'm single blade bent shatfter 98% of the time. I purchased a Werner Ovation a few years back and I feel I gotta use it some times since I paid so damn much for it. My warts are clearing up nicely
 
ron77
member (8)member
  
06/06/2020 05:45PM  
Great advice, and much appreciated. I’m gonna get a good carbon bent shaft for cruising and I have a 60” 8 1/2” for power when the going gets tough. The longer reach may help with bracing and sweeps. I actually made really good speed with this paddle, I paddled 7 km in just under an hour which is unbelievable for me solo. I also did find that after dumping on the first portage I just was way more careful and got a feel for the boat and I never dumped again after 20 plus portages. I was wearing big military boots, so I’m gonna try runners with neoprene socks. I’m also definitely gonna take her out on a calm day and play around to see where it’s tipping point really is, maybe even bring a dry bag with a simulated load to see how that affects things. Its not practical to lower the seat, so I’ll just have to get used to where it is. I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable the tractor seat was too! Thanks everyone for your comments and ideas
 
06/06/2020 09:17PM  
Blatz: "Hey now Butthead I'm single blade bent shatfter 98% of the time. I purchased a Werner Ovation a few years back and I feel I gotta use it some times since I paid so damn much for it. My warts are clearing up nicely "


++++!

butthead
 
06/07/2020 09:39AM  
Number one rule in the Advantage- Never stick your head outside of the gunwales. She goes over so quick you don't have time to think "I'm going over" before you're standing or (worse case) swimming beside her. Its like a bicycle in that the faster your speed the better the stability. Can deal with big waves running into the waves or quartering them. Beware of running parallel. I'm leery of running with big waves- though she does quite well- I like to see the waves coming so I'm positioned well with the paddle when the hit. Also when you're running into waves you start at the biggest and run towards the lee. Running with the waves it's hard to tell how big they will get before you reach your destination and once in the void you really have no choice but to continue the fight.

I'm a believer in the right sized carbon bent (ZRE is my brand/friend) as the best means to propel the Advantage. Sizing is important- almost everyone goes longer than ideal (eg average 6 foot person should get 52" or less bent). If your switch technique is sloppy stay out of the big stuff until your switch is smooth and quick. Efficient switch is really inhibited by too long of paddle.

As Butthead noted; the Advantage likes a stern bias weighting. I've taken many trips with just one large pack in the stern and done fine. In a crosswind the stern bias is extreme to keep from pointing into the wind- sometimes this tendency to point is almost impossible to defeat and you end up single side paddling with extreme vigor for miles. Uncomfortable, yes but you will really cover the ground. The physics of this is due to that pushing through the water basically fixes the bow in directional place so the wind pushes the stern despite its considerably less surface exposure to the wind. Keeping your packs below the gunwales is also a significant factor.

I bought my Advantage in 86 and paddle the shield country on any day I have time and the wind and weather are cooperative "enough". Scratches happen- epoxy way softer than rock. I repair the stems whenever necessary with a strip or two of fiberglass- sanded to keep the shape of the boat. When I do the stems I'll rough up any areas with exposed kevlar and paint them with resin. Its a canoe, not a sculpture. Take care of it but wear your scars with pride.


Warrior
 
06/07/2020 10:36AM  
Yup keep your upper torso vertical to avoid being horizontal in the water. This is me circa 1990 something demonstrating that
 
06/07/2020 10:47AM  
I learned a lot from Harry Roberts back in the 80s. The North American Touring Technique is geared towards canoes like the Advantage using bent shaft paddles. This Book explaines it well
 
06/07/2020 11:51AM  
Note in Blatz's photo the bracing of feet and knees in the canoe, the perpendicular torso and the weighted, braced paddle. Great technique. What fun!
 
ron77
member (8)member
  
06/07/2020 02:13PM  
Great advice everyone, I’m glad I posted. I found a newer version of Harry Roberts book in kindle on amazon. I’m going to learn and practice the NATT technique. I took my foot brace out, looks like I should re-install it haha :) Warrior, thanks for your photo of your canoe, that really inspires confidence to take her out. I’ll still do my best to avoid scratches, but seems like you’ve been paddling for decades in that canoe and are still going strong with care and maintenance. Awesome! Thank you again everyone :)
 
MReid
distinguished member (443)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
06/07/2020 05:30PM  
ron77: " I took my foot brace out, looks like I should re-install it haha :) "

Definitely reinstall them. Bracing on the footbraces, with knees or legs tight against the gunnels is really the only way to paddle this type of boat in tough conditions. It's sort of like strapping yourself in-- you can let the boat bop around and still have control of your center of gravity. Doing that also lets you use your hips to turn--just pressure one cheek and she'll turn nicely. Just sitting on the seat without anything feels like you're a bobblehead.
 
Beast388
senior member (94)senior membersenior member
  
06/14/2020 09:14PM  
I just got back from 7 days in the BWCA with my Advantage....first trip in a solo. I learned alot about handling this boat over the past week.

Initially, I was nervous, but quickly got comfortable as I spent more time in the seat.

For fishing, or just tooling around, I use an old Wenonah 52" bent shaft. For all out speed, making time across a lake, I use a BB 260cm double blade. I wore gloves so the warts aren't too bad. In the wind, I felt more comfortable with the double blade since I could quickly hit on either side as needed, without the switch. We did have some serious wind this past week, and I had to pull over to shore to avoid dumping in the white caps.

I was able to fish out of the Advantage, but I had to really concentrate on balance as I cast, reeled in, and lipped fish out of the water. Fishing from a tandem is certainly more relaxing.

Since I spent the past few months "restoring" my Advantage, I tried to avoid the wear and scrapes that are easy to come by in the BWCA. I used heavy duty duct tape on the stems, but wore through on the bow. I will be cleaning up and repairing the scratches that I incurred.

We paddled out of the BWCA yesterday and had glassy water, fog, frost from the island site Lake Polly to the top of Kawishiwi Lake. That lake greeted us with a stiff headwind all the way down to EP 37. I ripped down that lake with the double blade....love the speed and glide of the Advantage.





 
ron77
member (8)member
  
06/17/2020 05:28PM  
Thanks Beast, sounds like your experience is pretty similar to mine. I took butthead’s advice and applied truck bed paint to the stern and bow (plus gorilla glue epoxy) so I’ll see how it holds up. I’m taking her out this weekend for a couple days.

I bought a 52” 12 degree carbon fiber bent shaft and tried the sit and switch method. It was a lot different for me after paddling one sided all my life. With sit and switch after about 3 or 4 strokes I’d feel the need to switch. I’m probably doin something wrong. Also I checked my speed and I averaged nearly 4 mph. With my dirty db it was a lot easier for me and my average speed was a bit better at about 4.5 mph. Do those speeds seem about right?

Anyways, I feel way more comfortable it my advantage and can’t wait to get out this weekend :)

 
MReid
distinguished member (443)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
06/17/2020 06:04PM  
ron77: "I bought a 52” 12 degree carbon fiber bent shaft and tried the sit and switch method. It was a lot different for me after paddling one sided all my life. With sit and switch after about 3 or 4 strokes I’d feel the need to switch. I’m probably doin something wrong. Also I checked my speed and I averaged nearly 4 mph. With my dirty db it was a lot easier for me and my average speed was a bit better at about 4.5 mph. Do those speeds seem about right?"


Just like everything, it takes some practice to properly use a bent shaft. The switch is critical--it should be smooth and very fast. Paddle should be near vertical during the power phase. The stroke is much shorter than with straight shafts and kayak blades--the blade should be coming out at about when your lower hand gets to your hip. Watch some Au Sable races on youtube, and you'll get the idea. It might take a while to get that fast, though!
 
tonecoughlin
senior member (91)senior membersenior member
  
07/07/2023 02:21PM  
My first solo trip with my new Advantage I used to solo with a Prism. This one I had one dog my most recent trip 2 dogs.

https://youtu.be/V4qGLZDgfXM
 
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