Yesterday ended a much needed 5 day solo loop starting and ending at Sawbill EP. Haven't had a day off from work for nearly three months. The expectations and demands in my field have been constant and wearing.

Despite more canoe traffic than I've experienced for many years, the quiet and solitude delivered! Was surprised and irritated, though, on the last evening when I stayed at Sawbill Lake SNF campground. A group at a site ran a loud generator until 9:30PM. I wanted to believe that the purpose was perhaps to keep a medical device operable for someone experiencing the northern forest for their last time.

I'm a soft-spoken, patient person who likes to believe can be reasonably diplomatic, so when I dragged my old bones away from my campfire to investigate and ask for some consideration, I expected to be received with a modicum of politeness. You probably know where this is leading. Not the scenario I hoped to find. A sour ending to an otherwise splendid trip. I now will think hard about staying at another large campground like Sawbill.

I had a similar experience when my wife and I visited the Porkies for the first time. Ever hear one of those things run out of gas in the middle of the night? Sounds like a 30 car pile up.

I'm for banning generators in any place there is tent camping. Curfews are not respected and it leaves the door open for one a-hole to ruin the night for everyone in the area.

Btw, unlike you I chose not to engage. A quick eyeball of the two morons with the trailer was enough to inform me that no courtesies were likely to be extended.

Several years ago I tried to camp and hike at many IL State parks. Same experience over and over. Oh well....

That’s a real bummer, sorry you had such lousy neighbors. This is the reason I have solar power on my camper. I hate noisy generators and so does everyone else, especially in a campgrounds. The solar panel keeps my battery’s topped off for the evening when boondocking or at a non electric site. I have a suitcase style GoPower 130 watt solar power kit. Next year I want to install another 300 watt on the roof with Lithium batteries.

Minnesota State parks do allow people to use generators. Here is what it says about them in section H... Power units used to generate electricity shall not be operated between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m., nor at other hours of the day if the operation causes a disturbance for other visitors. Most people I’ve run into just top off their batteries during the afternoon so they don’t disturb others when sitting around the fire. Minnesota State Park Rules Most “Normal” people would have just shut the generator off and apologized to you for the noise.

Now you were in a National Forest campground that is heavily wooded and no electric service. It is run by Sawbill outfitters and they have quite hours between 10:00pm and 6:00 am. It says nothing about generator use there on the webpage. This is a huge problem in my opinion that it’s not clearly stated to everyone to read. In a heavily wooded area with no electricity a generator is the only way they could have charged their batteries. They should have used the generator in the afternoon, not at 9:30 at night. And Sawbill outfitter was closed at that time, so you had no one to tell your concerns to. I’m not sticking up for the rude generator people, they should have known better.

Last year, I was in site #28 and just two sites southward of me was an older couple running a Honda portable generator to recharge their travel trailer house battery. I couldn't hear it until I walked near it on my way to the restroom. Many people buy cheap generators and they are all LOUD. This could happen at any campground that allows generators, not just larger ones.

Sorry to read about your sour experience. In your situation, I would have spoken to the campground host @ #17 or the owners of Sawbill Outfitter. People are allowed to run generators at Sawbill, but loud and obnoxious noisemakers for hours on end might have a limit on run time.

Bummer...I understand how annoying a loud generator can be. Hope the next experience is less nerve jangling.

mjmkjun: "...I would have spoken to the campground host @ #17 or the owners of Sawbill Outfitter."

Actually, I've been in the site next to the host a couple of times. they run a gernerator, but usually in the daytime. Never at nite when I was there.

I used to camp at Mount Rainier. One weekend I had the whole campground to myself. Then some guy came in in the middle of the night and ran the generator for most of the time he was there. I thought I was gonna lose my mind. I don’t think they should be allowed. That’s just me. It’s crazy noisy.

Why would anyone want to camp with a generator? If you need electricity so desperately that you'd stain the sacred silence, stay home. I have a generator because we lose power multiple times every year in Maine, but even in January, without a wood stove and behind closed windows, I won't start it for a day, more or less, because that's how much I hate its racket. In the woods, it just ruins the mood.

It's like showing up wobbly-slobberingly drunk for a high tea.

It's like crapping on just laid white carpet.

It's like tagging Michelangelo's Pieta.

It's like carving "Benny loves Betty" into General Sherman, the world's biggest tree.

It's like shaving an Afghan hound.

Then to add your a temper tantrum to the noise of your screaming machine is just pathetic.

Funny and true analogies, missmolly. I own a Honda Portable generator but I choose to bring an extra fully-charged battery to switch out when the travel trailer house battery is low.

Jhb8426, yes they do. I can understand their need since they set up camp at the beginning of the season and stay put until end of season. As you stated, they chose daytime hours when the noise integrates (somewhat) with surrounding noises of guests/dogs/excited kids/slamming car doors and slamming garbage bin lids.

I recall site #1 was your favored spot there. I'm guessing when that site lost the great tree it changed the coziness of the site? I always glance to see if you are set up in that site whenever I am there. :)

Inverter generators like the Honda mentioned a few posts up are so quiet that they can be used in places where a non-inverter generator cannot.

Inverter generators are more expensive and deliver less watts overall. There are many brands out there to choose from. The days of the loud smelly generator can be gone as the newer technology generators become more popular.

With that, I would be ashamed of myself if I ever fired up a generator in a campground meant for quiet.

Tom

Much to the frustration of some of my friends, I utter refuse to have anything to do with campgrounds, and stuff like this is part of the reason.

Not only is it fucking annoying but isn't it annoying to the people that are running it as well? Don't they hear that stupid buzzing constantly? I say ban them leave that shit at home.

I thought generators were not allowed in N.F. Campground.

OMGitsKa: "Not only is it fucking annoying but isn't it annoying to the people that are running it as well? Don't they hear that stupid buzzing constantly? I say ban them leave that shit at home. "

Had a similar experience in the Manistee National Forest near the Pere Marquette River in Michigan. Folks rolled into a rustic campsite down from us a ways and fired up a generator. Ok, no biggie, they'll run it for a bit and then shut it off when they go to bed. Nope. Ran it all night. Of course it bothered us, but we were 50 yds away. It had to be deafening for them, sleeping right next to it. I don't get it.

We didn't directly engage them, but we did leave a polite note explaining how they pretty much ruined our night. I'm guessing they couldn't have cared less, but we wanted to, at least, let them know.

mjmkjun: "Jhb8426, yes they do...

I recall site #1 was your favored spot there. I'm guessing when that site lost the great tree it changed the coziness of the site? I always glance to see if you are set up in that site whenever I am there. :)"

Yes, I love that site. Usually second week in July and the week after Labor day. Looks like 3rd week in July this year. The year the trees went down I was there shortly after they went down. It's lost some of the allure and setting the tarp is not as good as before but it's still good. Check in if you see me there again.

When I was on the road hauling boats, I got a hair brain idea to bring my dad's old 5000 watt generator thinking I could have my truck and a heater plugged in. I fired it up and when I realized the noise level, I immediately shut it off a little embarrassed.

They make generators that are pretty quiet... what you experienced was blatant disrespect. You have a definite right to be upset. It’s when people like that show little or no respect for others, we all lose. Eventually, people in authority get tired of hearing about it and make rules or whatever that effects us all. Posting here, you may have shared with someone who could be guilty of this or a similar infraction. Helps all to think about what we do, wherever we are. Sad to say more and more people are only concerned about themselves.

Sorry for the wordy post. We got called to a fire and I’m sitting watching it as it was a permitted burn and the owner thought he could go to bed since it’s raining. Here again, this is an upstanding citizen and friend, but because we got called out at 3:05am, it affects others. We had to get up, and because it was paged a structure fire, we had to respond with needed apparatus for such. Our actions affect others on a daily basis.

Be kind!

Voyageurs has the same rule, no generator between 10pm and 8 am

I'd say at least 2/3 ignore the rule, it's probably closer to 90%

rather than find it annoying, it is my guess they find the drone soothing, the generator scares away all those wild critters that would drag them away in the middle of the night

I think we all need to be careful about judging how others choose to recreate and take in the outdoors. Some people like long rugged solo trips that take them miles from the next nearest person, others like to camp with a generator to keep their coffee pot running. There is no right or wrong way as long as it falls within campground rules. This is a great site with great people but my one criticism of the group is that we all often think our way is the one single right way.

I do find generators annoying and would never choose to bring one. However, I would also not approach someone to tell them to turn it off unless its being run during specified quiet hours. It sounds like in this case quiet hours started at 10pm and the generator was run until 9:30pm. If that is all accurate then I see no issue with what the group with the generator was doing. It was all within the rules. Just because we all wouldn't like it doesn't mean we have the right to force others to follow our sensebilities.

nofish,
Clearly you can see that asking for consideration and acting in a manner that forcefully demands adherence to another point of view are different courses.

Without asking for empathy from the generator party folks, they remain unaware of the effect their choice has on others. Clearly, they may continue as before, but saying nothing, in my view, is a mistake. It implies consent.

We all chose when and where to stand up for what we think is right. In this specific situation, I would not have been able to live with myself had I ignored actions that appeared contrary to what I believe aligned with the spirit of a beautiful and peaceful location.

I'd be annoyed as well. Regardless of what the rules state, my firm stance is that it is inconsiderate to be operating any contraption that creates a sustained noise that can be easily heard across campsites.

If you need all the comforts of home, I'd recommend a hotel in town.

PVnRT: "nofish,
Clearly you can see that asking for consideration and acting in a manner that forcefully demands adherence to another point of view are different courses.

Without asking for empathy from the generator party folks, they remain unaware of the effect their choice has on others. Clearly, they may continue as before, but saying nothing, in my view, is a mistake. It implies consent.

We all chose when and where to stand up for what we think is right. In this specific situation, I would not have been able to live with myself had I ignored actions that appeared contrary to what I believe aligned with the spirit of a beautiful and peaceful location. "

I understand your frustration and I'd have been annoyed by the sound as well. However, they were still playing by the rules so what you or I think is right isn't all that important in a shared space like a campground. The sense of right or wrong is highly subjective which is why there are stated rules governing things like quiet hours. You say that saying nothing implies consent but they were adhereing to the rules, they don't need your consent to continue operating within the rules. You're free to speak up and ask them to turn it off but they are equally free to tell you no and to run it up until 10pm when quiet hours go into effect. I would hope and expect both the ask and the reply to be done politely.

If when you approached them they replied in a rude belligerent way then thats the transgression I'd be more upset about rather then being upset they ran the generator within the rules in the first place.

Can someone explain what a typical need would be for someone running a generator all night would be? I get the large campers/RVs wanting AC, but for anyone else, what’s the advantage?

I disagree that it might have been legal to run the generator during certain times. Think of the many scenarios where a person could make unruly noise during the day, but it would still be against the rules. Quiet hours does not mean that other times you can make all the noise you want.

If a person adjacent to me ran a generator that was clearly disturbing, it would be my moral obligation to ask them to turn it off.

Tom

Experiencing natural sounds and quiet are a major reason people want to go camping.

Someone's decision to use a generator, or car stereo, or have a loud party does not over rule other people's legitimate desire for quietude. In a public setting it is incumbent one the person creating the noise and thus impinging on other people to do so with consideration. If they do use consideration it is acceptable for those being impacted to stand up for their rights, even if what the loud person is doing is technically "permitted."

People tolerate noise in campgrounds up to a point. When it is excessive or inconsiderate then they are under no obligation to tolerate this behavior. Maybe the jerks will learn something if more people stood up to them.

gkimball: "Experiencing natural sounds and quiet are a major reason people want to go camping.


Someone's decision to use a generator, or car stereo, or have a loud party does not over rule other people's legitimate desire for quietude. In a public setting it is incumbent one the person creating the noise and thus impinging on other people to do so with consideration. If they do use consideration it is acceptable for those being impacted to stand up for their rights, even if what the loud person is doing is technically "permitted."


People tolerate noise in campgrounds up to a point. When it is excessive or inconsiderate then they are under no obligation to tolerate this behavior. Maybe the jerks will learn something if more people stood up to them."

Oops "If they DON'T use consideration it is acceptable..."

Sometimes I wish I'd learned to type.

gkimball: "Sometimes I wish I'd learned to type."

Or, you could just edit your original post... :)

The law that permits generators is wrong.

jhb8426: "

gkimball: "Sometimes I wish I'd learned to type."

Or, you could just edit your original post... :)"

+1

PatrickE: "Can someone explain what a typical need would be for someone running a generator all night would be?,,,,"

CPAP breathing machine at night could be a need.

bobbernumber3: "CPAP breathing machine at night could be a need."

Batteries won't work??

jhb8426: "

bobbernumber3: "CPAP breathing machine at night could be a need."

Batteries won't work??"

Sure. Still, there's a need to recharge batteries. Battery operated CPAP machines can go for 8 hrs -- some 13 to 15 hours. Of course, you don't need an inverter-generator with a noise level of 90 dB (lawnmower) but most folks go with those because of affordability.

missmolly: "The law that permits generators is wrong. "

isn't that a political post, where is the moderator?

the people running the generator stopped at 9:30 pm
in every place I have been quiet time starts at 10pm
obviously places like BWCA don't allow them
unless they are called out in the rules as illegal, they can run them

when I go camping, a great part of the reason is the fresh air, people that build campfires spoil that, can I demand them to put it out?

I always select my campsite away from noisy people and upwind if I can

Thanks to you, Zara, the BWCACOM SWAT team has surrounded my house.

FYI: I've told dem Canoe Country coppers that I ain't comin' out until they fetch me mudda. I'll say good-bye to her and then come out, syllables blazin'!

tumblehome: "I disagree that it might have been legal to run the generator during certain times. Think of the many scenarios where a person could make unruly noise during the day, but it would still be against the rules. Quiet hours does not mean that other times you can make all the noise you want.

If a person adjacent to me ran a generator that was clearly disturbing, it would be my moral obligation to ask them to turn it off.

Tom"

As long as you have the moral high ground I guess they have to turn it off.

If someone is following the rules, You have no standing at any campground To tell them to do different unless you are an owner/employee of the campground. When the rules say you can run a generator till 10:00, and you tell them to shut it off early because it bothers you, be prepared for the response you will probably get. When we stay in a campground we expect noise till Quiet time. If you don’t like noise, don’t stay in your typical campground. If I start to get bothered by noise, my wife will look at me and say“you chose to camp here, suck it up”

Not generator related, but we recently stayed at East Bearskin Lake Campground ahead of our BWCA trip and someone had the camper cabin across from ours and literally SLAMMED the screen door all night long, while also SCREAMING (past dark) for well over 2 hours.

I think some people just aren't self-aware, and are rude.

bobbernumber3: "

PatrickE: "Can someone explain what a typical need would be for someone running a generator all night would be?,,,,"

CPAP breathing machine at night could be a need."

Air conditioner?