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convbcuda
member (14)member
  
08/03/2020 07:38PM  
We went through Northern Tier and here are my thoughts.
First, we had a fantastic time. Really, it couldn't have been better.

We left Springfield, VA, flew from Reagan National Airport direct to MSP. We rented a 15 passenger van for our crew of 8 and gear and drove 4 hours to Virginia, MN. Not sure why we did that to just end up in Virginia again. :)

Virginia is the closest town with national hotel chains. We stayed at the AmericInn with a great view of the railroad tracks. Well, my room did. Get the front of the hotel to be away from that noise. The hotel was fine for our needs.

Next morning we drove to NT. We got lunch at a gourmet grilled cheese place in Ely called Gator's Grilled Cheese Emporium. I got a grilled cheese sandwich and the lobster mac and cheese. Great stuff!

Staff checked out temps when we arrived. MN made masks mandatory and we wore them any time we were not at our cabin. Unfortunately, not all scouts and scouters complied. It should have been clear you wear a mask or you leave.

Our crew was assigned our own shower/bathroom at the bathhouse (2 on our return).

Our interpreter is a Navy Academy midshipman and was fantastic. It helped that our crew was really good, too. He showed them what to do the first day and really we just fished or relaxed while the scouts made/cleaned dinner. Scouts had plenty of time to do their own swimming and having fun.

Some random thoughts/advice.

1. White gas stoves are ancient technology compared to canister stoves. I took a tiny backpacking canister stove for our coffee (they have a percolator in the equipment if you don't).

2. I took a Warbonnet Eldorado hammock and Warbonnet tarp. It was my first time camping with a hammock. It was OK. I was glad to have my own place to sleep. I hate sharing a tent. The interpreter had a hammock, too, but no underquilt. He was cold at night. If your whole crew brings hammocks you'd struggle to find workable trees for all at most of the campsites we used.

3. The walk from the parking lot to your cabin is rather long. Not sure why they set things up like that.

4. White gas stoves are like carburetors and canister stoves are electronic fuel injection. No tune ups and quick to start.

5. While they provide 1 drink mix packet per day, take some extra. The Polar Pure iodine water treatment tastes bad.

6. Better yet, take a Katadyn BeFree or Sawyer Squeeze filter and skip the Polar Pure. Don't take those big, bulky, heavy pump filters.

7. You can't spill canister fuel.

8. I went in wanting to minimize portages thinking those would be killer. Well, they are. What's worse is no portages. The reason is when you portage you rest the rowing muscles and instead kill your shoulders and legs on the portages. On the big lakes with a long time before a portage, your rowing muscles turn to rubber. So you need the portages.

9. The portage where we stood in a waterfall was awesome!

10. The food is better than Philmont, although the desserts often were pudding, even when not intentionally pudding. The food is crazy heavy, too.

11. I loved Philmont, but this was better. Philmont felt like there was too little down time. At NT, we arrived at the campsite between 2-4 and just had to set up and eat. We all loved this. We swam, fished, chilled. It was really nice. Plan your route so you arrive at a campsite around this time. You'll enjoy your time more.

12. People who prefer canister stoves are scientifically proven to be better looking than those who prefer white gas. I saw it on the internet somewhere.

13. A beaver dam blocked our way and made for a less than joyful portage.

14. Pack light.

15. We had rain the first hour on water and never again. I never used my rain jacket. Leave the rain pants at home.

16. White gas stoves are like a Soviet Lada and canister stoves are like a Mercedes-AMG GT.

17. First 2 nights, bugs were not really an issue. Last 2 nights, they feasted for about 1.5 hours. No real issues during the day.

18. One of our 2 NT white gas stoves stopped working and couldn't be repaired. There's nothing to maintain on a canister stove. We used remote canister stoves at Philmont.

19. Take your own PFD with pockets if you want a GoPro or fishing gear easily accessible. Getting into the grey whale while on the water is annoying.

20. Altama OTB Maritime Assault boots work very well.

21. Get the Kevlar boats. Portaging with something heavier would not be joyful.

22. Get a backless seat pad that straps on to the canoe seat.

23. Take Tears of the Sun hot sauce. It's Trans-Siberian Orchestra guitarist Chris Caffery's recipe.

24. Several of us think we had weird dreams because of the Polar Pure iodine. This might be true.

25. We were all very fortunate to be able to go.
 
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08/05/2020 11:28AM  
Seems like you've got some opinions on white gas. I use both, and both are appropriate in various situations. We just got out on Sunday and home Monday, outfitted thru town vs NTier. Carried a Coleman 413H with about a gallon of white gas. Having 2 burners is handy when you have a large group, although it's really menu dependent.
When we did Philmont in 2016 we carried my MSR Windpro. I'd do that again any day especially when it's boil & dump or "Philfood."

Glad you guys had a great trip. Ours was good too!
 
convbcuda
member (14)member
  
08/05/2020 11:43AM  
They gave us 2 backpacking white gas stoves and a folding grill. The stoves went under the grill so the large pots were supported by just the grill, not the stoves. Remote canister stoves could do the same job without the fiddling and maintenance. Yes, I have strong opinions after seeing white gas spilled and a fire started a few years ago by scouts.

We did have a great time!
 
08/05/2020 04:16PM  
Yeah, I guess two backpacking stoves under a folding grill would work.
 
IndyScouters
member (41)member
  
08/06/2020 09:14AM  
Nice report. We took two groups in Mid July and both groups had a MSR canister stove and a MSR whisperlite. My experience was that the Canister boiled Water way faster, but had less "simmering" control, the Whisperlite did a better job when we had to "cook" something and not burn it. Of course, Your mileage may vary, Lol. The Scouts in our groups had a great time and already want us to plan another trip back. Glad to see others introducing the next generation of BWCAW lovers to this amazing place!

IndyScouters


 
08/11/2020 01:21AM  
Went last year through NT and just got back from a family trip this year. Saw a ton of NT crews out. Picked up a custom crew Tshirt from a Texas crew that got left in a campsite by Eddy Falls. Washed it and now trying to get ahold of the troop so I can send it back to the scout who lost it.

NT food is good but horribly heavy compared to today’s standards for packing lite. We outfitted with 2 canister stoves this year and they worked great. Was nice this year because I actually got to cook and do the bear bag. Last year as an adult adviser you weren’t allowed to do much. Bear bag system we used this year was a significant improvement over NT’s. Lighter rope and a 2 pulley system which made pulling it up easier.

Ryan
 
convbcuda
member (14)member
  
08/11/2020 05:08AM  
Gaidin53: "Went last year through NT and just got back from a family trip this year. Saw a ton of NT crews out. Picked up a custom crew Tshirt from a Texas crew that got left in a campsite by Eddy Falls. Washed it and now trying to get ahold of the troop so I can send it back to the scout who lost it.


NT food is good but horribly heavy compared to today’s standards for packing lite. We outfitted with 2 canister stoves this year and they worked great. Was nice this year because I actually got to cook and do the bear bag. Last year as an adult adviser you weren’t allowed to do much. Bear bag system we used this year was a significant improvement over NT’s. Lighter rope and a 2 pulley system which made pulling it up easier.


Ryan"


Very nice of you to try to return the shirt.

Once we were in camp, the scouts were in charge. I set up my hammock and the other adult did his tent.

You are right about the food being unnecessarily heavy. I think NT should evaluate some lighter options.

I saw another group of adults who must have used an outfitter with what looked like a giant bear canister with backpack straps. Hanging bear bags is really not the best method. It's not because a good bear bag hang isn't effective, it's because of how often you can't find a proper limb to meet the criteria for a good hang.

https://andrewskurka.com/argument-against-hanging-bear-bag/
 
10/31/2020 06:29PM  
Glad you had a great trip!

I watched the videos for NT and the gear scared me! Looks so heavy!
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
11/03/2020 08:58AM  
convbcuda: "Leave the rain pants at home. "

You probably feel that way because you didn't need them. Rain pants weigh nothing and take up virtually no space in the pack. However, they're worth their weight in gold if it's cold, windy, rainy and you need another layer. If you drove your car a couple thousand miles on vacation and didn't get a flat tire, you wouldn't think of leaving the spare tire at home on the next trip, would you? Of course not. "Be Prepared."

I'm a veteran of multiple trips to NT and I've been to Philmont, too. Both are great experiences and it's not a competition, but NT offers a wilderness experience unlike any of the other high adventure bases. Every Scout should go once.
 
TechnoScout
distinguished member (434)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/03/2020 08:59AM  
Were it not for BSA, I would not be on this site.
In 2006, I took a crew to Philmont. While at breakfast, the fella sitting across from me told me about NTIER. I was fascinated. When I get back home, I started my research. In 2007, I took two crews to NTIER--one in June and the other in August. I was hooked!! Took two additional crews while still in scouting. All other trips have been outside of scouting.

Done Philmont twice. Great experience, but heavily programmed. There is more 'adventure' in BWCA IMO. BWCA does not give the same vistas and beauty that the Rockies give you--a plus in favor of Philmont.

As far as stoves go, I get emotional about my Whisperlite. I get up before everyone else so that I can be alone to start the stove for coffee because it is akin to a religious experience.

Here is my analogy. A white gas stove is like meeting a friend for a glass of wine at a quaint sidewalk cafe, whereas a cannister stove is like clicking 'Like' on your friend's Facebook page.

 
convbcuda
member (14)member
  
11/03/2020 09:12AM  
TechnoScout: "As far as stoves go, I get emotional about my Whisperlite. I get up before everyone else so that I can be alone to start the stove for coffee because it is akin to a religious experience.

Here is my analogy. A white gas stove is like meeting a friend for a glass of wine at a quaint sidewalk cafe, whereas a cannister stove is like clicking 'Like' on your friend's Facebook page."

I don't like things that are unnecessarily fiddily. And white gas stoves are unnecessarily fiddily with zero benefit.

Canister stoves are simple and work.
 
TechnoScout
distinguished member (434)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/04/2020 10:29AM  


3. The walk from the parking lot to your cabin is rather long. Not sure why they set things up like that.

It was short on my first couple of trips. My guess is that they moved the parking lot so that you get an appreciation of what it is like to schlep a ton of gear in a portage--maybe not take it all on the water.



5. While they provide 1 drink mix packet per day, take some extra. The Polar Pure iodine water treatment tastes bad.



Drink mix is a good idea. Frankly, I got used to the PP. It is very effective, although I now have no reservations of drinking untreated water in the middle of a lake.



6. Better yet, take a Katadyn BeFree or Sawyer Squeeze filter and skip the Polar Pure. Don't take those big, bulky, heavy pump filters.


I am sold on gravity filters. My pump will only go on backpacking trips.



12. People who prefer canister stoves are scientifically proven to be better looking than those who prefer white gas. I saw it on the internet somewhere.



There is a substantial body of evidence that those who use white-gas stoves have a higher IQ. I know this for sure because I have a Ph.D.



14. Pack light.


Amen. All personal gear is supposed to fit in a 5-gallon bucket. Three crew members should be able to get all their gear into one grey whale.



19. Take your own PFD with pockets if you want a GoPro or fishing gear easily accessible. Getting into the grey whale while on the water is annoying.

Yes, something like NRS Chinook

 
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