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SuspishMs
  
08/21/2020 08:34AM  
OK, there’s a “healthy discussion” in our household about our upcoming BWCA trip and how our food should be packed. Full disclosure, this is my first BWCA trip and my husband’s second. We will not be on any of the lakes designated for the specific bear pack protections.

He seems set on the idea of using a regular backpack (lined with trash bags) to carry all our food for a 5 day 4 night trip (all of which barely fits in the backpack). His plan is to hang it PCT style in a tree as bear protection (but neither of us has done this before or even practiced doing a bag hang yet). I’m (over) anxious by nature and worried this will lead to us having our food taken by bears or other wildlife. My inclination is to pay an outfitter to get whatever food pack/bear pack they offer, though I’m not sure if that will still require learning to do the tree hanging.

I’ve seen discussions about selecting food packs, but given how close our trip is and that we’re not looking to invest in buying a pack, these seem to be our options. Have people gotten by with keeping food in just a backpack or would you recommend renting something from an outfitter? We’re already working with an outfitter for renting the packs for our other gear & our canoe.

I’m also not sure what the plan is for dealing with trash. How does that typically get stored/managed during the trip?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/input! I really don’t want to be “those” BWCA newbies.
 
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goetzc
senior member (52)senior membersenior member
  
08/21/2020 09:33AM  
Sounds like you two are planning - which is better than the alternative. :)

When hanging - you can use just about any bag but some are better than others. Some people use lightweight nylon drybags as foodbags and some use heavier weight food packs. Either way I think lining it with some sort of waterproof layer is helpful.

FWIW - if your food items will fill a regular size backpack already - and you're not eager to learn to hang - you may want to look at renting "blue barrel" from your outfitter.

I prefer to use Ursack bags lined with a scent proof plastic bag like an Opsak or my preference is aNylofume pack liner.

I then hang the Ursack from a tree or two. Sometimes finding a suitable tree is tough so I like to be prepared to use 2 trees using this method. It's easier if you've got smaller trees and it only takes an extra rope setup.

Enjoy your trip! I enjoy the planning and prep work as much as the actual trips so try to enjoy that part also if you can. :)

 
pswith5
distinguished member(3687)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/21/2020 09:56AM  
If you use the search tag on the top of the page you can look up a myriad of methods and options for hanging food or using barrels. Where are you from? I am in the twin cities and have loaned out Mr bear vaults on occasion. By the way; welcome to the site. You will likely find it a great resource to answer many questions about canoe camping. Pete
 
08/21/2020 11:41AM  
Welcome, SuspishMs; hope you find great information and helpful friends on the site.

We've used a 'regular backpack' for food & gear for over 40 years, but divide food into several nylon dry bags. Typically, we have a bag of drinks (coffee, energy drink powder, teas, sugar, creamer, cocoa, etc), a bag of snacks (trail mix, nuts, string cheese, etc), a lunch bag (powdered hummus, powdered peanut butter, hard crackers, etc), a breakfast bag (oatmeal, sausage jerky, precooked bacon, etc), and a couple dinner bags (mostly home-dehydrated meals we've developed over the years). Bags are different colors so we know which bag to go for, and we're not digging through meals we're not interested in like you might be if you have all food items stashed into a single pack cavity.

We've been hanging our food for all our trips, and use a system similar to that shared by goetzc, but with pulleys in addition to the carabiners. At the start of our typical 10-day trips, food weight is pretty significant, and the mechanical advantage of the system shown (with or without pulleys) is nice. We don't hang the backpack, only the various food bags.

We always plan trips for distance and we single-walk portages, so have appreciated the comfort of the framed backpack on portages. A caution, however--you might want to pad the face of the pack and place it in the canoe face-down to avoid pressure points against the bottom of the canoe.

My first BWCA-Q trip was 1978; my wife's first trip was 1979 and she was immediately hooked. I hope your first visit gets you hooked the same way!

TZ

 
08/21/2020 01:18PM  
An outfitter-supplied pack that is specifically designed to carry food and related equipment will have a flat bottom that will enable the pack to stand upright, will have an internal stiffener (foam, in the case of an insulated pack, or a plastic or cardboard insert) that will keep the pack's sides from collapsing when the pack is opened, and will have handles on the two sides by which you can hang the pack in a balanced fashion. They will also be lined with a large, heavy-duty plastic bag to waterproof the contents.

There is no such thing as a food pack that is bear-proof apart from hanging it. Blue barrels are waterproof and significantly reduce food odors, but they are not bear-proof. Only canisters like the BearVaults (and similar) or Ursacks are bear-proof. An argument could be made that even BearVaults and Ursacks are not 100% bear-proof, but the probability of a bear getting into those units is very small.

Trash: For food-related waste, I use quart and gallon Zip-lock bags and then put them inside a 2.5 gallon Zip-lock bag. The double-bagging helps to reduce odors. Press the air out before sealing to reduce volume. Carry a 13-gallon or smaller trash bag for random stuff left behind by other campers who failed to observe LNT.

I have never hung my food. I use a BearVault or I stash the food bag in the bush away from camp and away from game trails.
 
08/21/2020 02:46PM  
You can hang your food in your backpack, a pack you rent from an outfitter, or a dry bag. You can line them with plastic liners - trash bags, thick plastic liners, nylofume bags, or OPsacks. Hanging is often difficult and time-consuming. Trees matching the requirements set forth in bear bag hanging instructions such as for the PCT method are not always readily available at designated campsites. This may be especially true if you'll be camping in one of the burn areas. There are reasons why many National Parks require the use of approved bear resistant containers such as "bear canisters" and Ursacks vs. hanging.

Bear canisters/Ursacks are generally not very large and require careful food selection and packing. But they don't have to be hung and bears are much less likely to get a food reward. You can rent them although I have not used the service since I have my own bear canisters/Ursacks. Just google rent a bear canister if interested. Most of them are around a 10-11 liter capacity. I don't know how that compares to your backpack, but it would have to be a very small pack. I can get 7-9 days food for me in a large BearVault, but it's crammed full of dehydrated food, nuts, and bars with minimal packaging. I eat the meals out of the bag. The garbage - bags, wrappers - goes in a quart Ziploc bag which will hold about a week's worth. It goes back in the canister/Ursack.

A whole backpack full of food for two for 4 days seems like a lot . . . ?

Feel free to email me if you would like a more detailed description.




 
08/21/2020 03:13PM  
With many trees stripped of good hanging branches and the lack of some sites having spaced trees to make it work, here are a couple of suggestions.

If possible, go down the lake and hang the pack from a cliff over the water. Be sure your knots are good. I now go with a five gallon bucket with lid available from most hardware stores. Take along a full roll of duct tape and use it liberally to hold the lid in place should the bucket become under attack. Leave the bucket in camp away from the openings to your tent.

By opening food boxes with smaller items such as hot chocolate, oatmeal, and food bars, along with bendable packages such as beef jerky, you will be able to utilize most all the space in a given barrel.

The odds are greatly in favor of you not getting robbed by bears even if you should leave your food in a pack and just laying it in camp someplace. That said, I would not leave food on the ground in any event. The bigger concern is mice and chipmunks. They do not pose much threat to my bucket system.

By the end of the week, you can load all of your trash into the near empty 5 gallon bucket to haul it out. During the time you are in the BWCA ,rince any food coated trash which can be stored in a large plastic bag and hung away from camp for easy use during the day. Leave it out overnight too. You can save a lot of money using this approach.

You can load some of your other items into the bag you were going to use. That may make it lighter per bag. You may have to take an extra portage this way or not depending on how many items you are going to portage in total and how many can be carried per trip. This will be difficult to ascertain until you pack at the outfitter and get to the first portage.
 
08/22/2020 02:34AM  
Although there is a possibility that a bear will get your food, the danger is relatively small. Much more dangerous are mice, chipmunks and squirrels. I used canvas Deluth packs back in the 60s and 70s, but now use a blue barrel for food. The barrel keeps the most dangerous animals out (mice, chipmunks and squirrels), but a determined or experienced bear is capable of ripping a barrel apart; although a less determined one might just give up. A bear vault is very, very unlikely to be broken into. By the way, don't leave food in your car parked in bear country. They can break into cars too.

The further you get from spots frequented by lots of people the less likely you are to have a problem. Bears that are around people learn that people have food. Ones that don't encounter people that often tend to be afraid of people.

Probably, the best thing you can to to prevent problems is to keep a clean camp. Bears have a great sense of smell and odors will attract them. That includes food but also stuff like toothpaste ect. (I figure they are just curious about strange odors.) Clean up after eating and put all the smelly stuff away. That includes garbage. I put my garbage in one gallon zip lock bags and put the bags in the barrel. Blue barrels have a sealed lid and they do a pretty good job of keeping the odors in. Do not get food on the outside of your barrel or pack. Do not take food in your tent. So, all my smelly stuff excepting my b.o. ends up in the barrel for the night.

There is some debate as to what to do with the barrel for the night. Some say hang the barrel in a tree. Bears are great tree climbers. So, if you hang your barrel/pack it needs to be high up and well away from the tree. Finding a suitable spot can be challenging. Some say that in popular spots the bears will learn where people are likely to hang their food. Another approach is to hide the barrel in the woods. Pick an unlikely spot away from game trails etc. The idea is that if the bear can't smell it or see it, the bear won't find it. I strap my barrel to a tree away from my camp. This is what I do, but to each his own. Some people suggest putting some kind of noise maker on the barrel. That way if something messes with your food, you'll know and can try and scare it away.

Enjoy your trip. Take appropriate care and the likely hood of having a problem will be very small.
 
08/22/2020 10:58AM  
One last thing on keeping a clean camp: cleaning fish. Bears like fish and the smell of fish guts will interest them. It would be a good idea to clean any fish away from your camp. The guts, fins etc. can be left on a rock out in the lake well away from your camp. Birds will find and eat them.
 
08/22/2020 12:50PM  
We hung our food for 30 years, often in a basic large backpack. We always used the 2 trees method wth pulley and carabiner. I'm sure it was not always high enough to keep away from bears but generally we were more concerned about mice etc. it can be pretty heavy at the start of a trip. Oh, don't use a rock tied to the rope and throw it over a branch - unless you're wearing a helmet.


Separating food by meal type (lunch, supper etc) works well. If you don't have waterproof colored bags the 2 gallon zip lock bags work. Often we put the zip locks into large op sacks to help with odors.

Garbage goes into a ziplock flattened, then into a small op sack. We always hung the garbage also.

I don't think it's been mentioned, but another part of keeping a clean camp is washing dishes away from camp, and not in the lake either.

I hope you enjoy the trip!
 
08/22/2020 06:57PM  
If I use a separate pack for my food I use my Osprey Talon 22 with an Ursack. I don't hang the food. I tie it to a tree. My trips are usually solo. For 2 people for 5 nights the large Ursack will work unless you plan on bringing a lot of "fresh" foods. I haven't hung my food in 20 years and never have had a bear or any animal get my food. I keep a meticulously clean camp and I don't fish so those scents are not around. You're going to get a lot on conflicting opinions on this.
 
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