One of my favorite things about going to the BWCA is introducing new people to the wilderness and seeing in them a fresh discovery and excitement for this new adventure. However, one of my biggest challenges in the planning stages is getting newbies--particularly adults--to understand and adopt a team concept when it comes to gear.

Many "essential" gear items can be shared, but in their desire to be self sufficient, I need to fight with newbies to not bring all of this stuff on their own. Our result is 4-5 filet knives making their way into the packs, along with several single-burner stoves (and all of the fuel for them), way more toilet paper than we'd ever need even if we never stopped eating (and digesting) the entire trip, etc.--you get the idea. If sharing this gear we would really only "need" one or two of those things.

During the planning I do designate and assign individuals to bring a particular piece of gear but then others often seem to bring the same stuff so they "know" they'll have it. It also is hard to convey the idea of multi-use: making an item serve more than a single purpose. On a recent trip I had a group member bring four different pair of gloves. Granted, each pair works best on certain tasks, but any one of them by themselves would have worked for most needs.

When I guided youth trips we'd run into this a bit so I would do a "pack-check" before hitting the water and eliminate a lot of duplicate or extra gear. The youth are of a mindset where they would accept leadership and trust the adult to guide them properly. When guiding adults, however, this trimming-the-gear-procedure has not gone as smoothly and has resulted in either us hauling a lot of extra crap or hurt feelings and being viewed as some kind of Captain Bligh--not a "vibe" one wants to create for the trip.

Other's experience? Strategies?

Did I blackout and write this? My group is the same! It has gotten better as the years have went on, but it still happens despite my best efforts and lists (TP is the worst - typically multiple people bring 2 rolls for 6 days?!?). For our group we single portage and everyone carries their own pack, so you are responsible to carry what you bring which makes it less of a big deal - but when you get to camp and realize 4 other people brought the thing you were marked down for is annoying, since I gladly would have lightened my pack.

It's definitely difficult and we have discussed a pack check. Personally, I know that I am an over the top planner and I want to have friends that want to go with me... so i have resisted the pack check as that may be the move that finally gets me booted from the group.

The one thing I have done, is put a bunch of items that I know might be redundant of mine (BUT THINGS ON MY LIST NOT THEIRS!) in a separate bag, at the EP ask everyone if they packed the items and leave the extras in my vehicle.

Go to Stuart lake

Common issue...un til people experience it and realize that extra weight might be an issue it is really hard to convince them. I think the most common practice is to make sure they carry anything extra they bring. I do this with my kids now...the junk they want to bring amazes me, but once they understand they will carry it, they lighten the load quick. Adults can be harder because “they know it all” already.

Bringing others no matter what is going to be a compromise we have different levels of importance to items, but I get the frustration.

T

This is an ongoing battle. For us, it's usually the food that we over-pack. We use a spreadsheet before the trip to fill out what we're bringing but there's inevitably duplicate items. This last trip, we did a quick food audit before but even then we brought way too much.

On trips I’m leading I hand group members a stuff sack that all their personal gear has to fit into except for dry shoes, sleeping bag and sleeping pad or hammock setup. Then I bring everything else. I guess I’m a control freak.

Anyone bringing something extra is in charge of that item next year. If there is extra coffee, tarp, fillet knife, water filter, etc. it comes off the group list next year and is assigned to the person who brought extra last year. In effect, if you brought coffee in your pack, then the coffee in the group pack must be extra and I won't bring it again.

brux: "On trips I’m leading I hand group members a stuff sack that all their personal gear has to fit into except for dry shoes, sleeping bag and sleeping pad or hammock setup. Then I bring everything else. I guess I’m a control freak."

I'm the same. I will outfit the group I take with the exception of personal stuff (clothes and whatnot). The best approach I've found is handing them a stuff sack and saying this is the space you get.

I'm not necessarily an ultralight guy or a minimalist, but I have the packs and gear for 2 to 4 people cut down to pretty dang efficient. Everyone seems to appreciate it on a portage.

One of the best ways I found to make the weight manageable - I weight everything with a scale and put it into excel. This not only helps trim the fat but next time I go out I reference the sheet and I'm done. If something doesn't work while out, I note it on the sheet. I'm a semi-ultralight backpacker and this has really helped in all my trips. One thing that I tell everyone, don't skimp on gear. My sleeping bag (zpacks) weighs 19oz, shelter (hyperlight mountain gear) 18oz, backpack (hyperlight mountain gear) 39oz (those are usually your big 3). They may cost more but you won't regret it in the long run.
Most of my childhood was spent in the woods building fires and cabins. If I have a saw I don't need a hatchet and vise versa. My Silky saw does everything I need and weighs next to nothing.

I have done four trips out of Sommers Canoe Base with the scouts. All of your personal gear must fit in a five-gallon bucket sans sleeping bag and sleeping pad. With scouts it is pretty easy to enforce--generally.

My last trip had four adults including myself. I told them not to bring camp chairs. Everybody brought camp chairs--except me. They all brought steri-pens. Lots of other stuff. Packs were HEAVY. But they carried them! It was a great trip in spite of the extra stuff.

For first timers, it is an exciting time. Buying gear and planning the trek is part of that experience. So, I don't squelch the enthusiasm...and deal with the weight.

Two years ago, I introduced my new trip-buddy to BWCA. Indeed, WAY more stuff than needed. Last year...less stuff...this year (next Wed)...even less stuff. It is a learning process.

I should not be too proud...as I tend to take more than I need.

One year, I am going to try to go ultra minimalist...probably have to be a solo trip (something on my bucket list).

I’ve only done solo and with my fiancé (whom I packed for) in the BDub, but my fly in trips in Canada, yes. My group always gave me a hard time, because I was the cook and planned the food rations, until the year they went without me, and they kept asking questions on how much of this and that the pack.

And then the personal gear, I would watch everyone unpack once we were dropped off at our lake and think to myself, “How much sh*t do you need for 5 days?!” Our outfitter never gave us any troubles over how much stuff we brought, but it was annoying to me. Hoping the border is open next year so we can go again, because I’m interested to compare our packing now that I’ve got a few canoe trips and minimalized my gear even more

One year, I am going to try to go ultra minimalist...probably have to be a solo trip (something on my bucket list)."

That's what I'm doing. Heading out to BWCA tonight from Pittsburgh. Solo for 6 nights with my swift kaweeden pack boat, starting at Kawishiwi Lake. I've got my pack weight at about 40lbs, but this includes a tackle box and some cooking oil.

SurlyDude: "(TP is the worst - typically multiple people bring 2 rolls for 6 days?!?) "

I'll gladly overpack TP- the weight risk vs reward justifies it for me. A. I hate group use TP and B. it weighs next to nothing. We have a strict BYOTP policy- up to the individual how much- though I've never heard of two rolls- its typically a choice between a new roll and the used roll that's sitting in my bathroom.

Here's 6 days worth of gear for my next week's trip.


Bottom right bags are Food in Ursack and 10lbs of camera gear which I don't skimp on. The Dream Hammock is the long orange thing. I have a 20 degree underquilt with a 20 degree bag on the far left.

Might I suggest a technique I have adopted when backpacking. Have everyone, WEIGH EVERYTHING., and I mean everything (yes you have to have a scale that goes to ounces, sorry). I found that when I did that the "few" extras added up to a lot of weight. Although not as critical in a canoe as on your back all the time it will end up there at least some of the time. From your description I will wager that all those duplicates and extras add up to 20 - 40 lbs and an extra pack collectively. If they don't think it is worth the effort have them try on a pack and then add 10 pounds to it. See which they would rather carry. Or see if they might rather have other comforts rather than duplicates.

By the way, no pun intended, 4 extra rolls of T.P.(Scott) is 1.5 lbs nearly the weight of a good camp chair.

danbogey: "

One year, I am going to try to go ultra minimalist...probably have to be a solo trip (something on my bucket list)."

That's what I'm doing. Heading out to BWCA tonight from Pittsburgh. Solo for 6 nights with my swift kaweeden pack boat, starting at Kawishiwi Lake. I've got my pack weight at about 40lbs, but this includes a tackle box and some cooking oil.
"

Cheers from the Burgh! We're in south hills. Have a great trip!

It's crazy how much gear newbies bring! Last time or two we've created shareable spreadsheets that seem to help.

People will choose to trim what they take on subsequent trips. I give advise but leave it up to them,

I make it very clear you bring it you carry it, as well as pitching in with carrying group gear and food.

Great question. There is no teacher like experience for this sort of stuff. I remember packing so very much extra stuff when I was younger..."oh, that hardly weighs anything!"...then you end up carrying more than your own body weight.
I just came out from a solo. Canoe weight = 25.5 pounds. Pack = 26.5 pounds. Lighter coming out..single portaged pretty easily. Experience taught me to take only what is necessary - for me that included the stuff to do fish fry several nights, and a camp chair.

But your team has to be willing to say no to some gear, and that's something it is hard to get across with words - they may need to suffer on an early trip to realize that deleting items from the list is a good thing for future trips.

I try to solve the problem by telling my group members I am bringing all the needed gear, food and snacks, and the people going along have to keep their extra clothes, sleeping bag and pad, extra pair of light weight shoes, and toiletries in a 40 L. dry bag weighing 10 lbs. or less. Their tents do not count toward their 10 lbs. limit, but I insist they be lightweight and I try to double up or triple up people in tents to save some on weight. In addition, I provide my group members with a 850 cu. in. Mountainsmith lumbar pack in which that they can carry a rain jacket/pants, some snacks, water bottles, headlamp, knife, sun screen, bug spray, head net, compass, knife, lighter, water filter, map, etc. We each carry the lumbar pack in addition to a large portage pack (60-70 lbs.) or canoe. I don't allow camp chairs or canoe chairs on my trips, or any loose items in the canoe (other than their personal lumbar pack which they carry along with a canoe or portage pack). I make a little concession on the individual weight limit for small padded fishing kits and extending poles in small tubes, but usually only one or two in my groups are fishermen and their fishing stuff weighs 2 or 3 pounds max. I have managed with this system to single trip portages with groups between 4 and 8 people. I keep my food and snack weight for five night/six day trips to 8 or 9 lbs. per person. By putting an absolute limit on the size and weight of their personal items, and being the primary provider of all the gear, I can avoid the problem with several people bringing the same common gear.

Prelude: The following is offered for consideration. Pretend we have known each other for years and get along well together. The following contains a good amount of brotherly sarcasm, hyperbole, and "elbow in the ribs" trolling.

Take your own trip. I tend to fall into the category of those who advocate "if you bring it, you carry it." Every trip needs basic necessities. Every trip needs trip specific gear.

It would be interesting to me to see if some of the "extras" brought on past trips would make the cut for those of you bring all the "necessities" for the group and put limits on what other members can bring.

It also works the other way. What the "gear fuehrer" deems necessary might not be necessary for me.

Consider:
-liquor/alcohol (never prohibited on our trips, but never brought either)
-camera (variety of lenses, tripod, extra batteries)
-Twizzlers (there is ALWAYS room)
-walking sticks
-night(pee) bottle
-hammock
-water filter
-book/Kindle
-sun screen (never use it, never will; long sleeves, boonie hat, no shorts)
-fish finder
-TP (does the gear guru bring enough for Sheryl Crow, or me when I have to deal with unpredictable bleeding hemorrhoids (it really is a thing))
-extra large, extra thick sleeping pad
-binoculars
-guitar
-GPS
-wood carving knives
-chair
-solar shower
-frozen steaks
-playing cards
-more than 2 pair of underwear
-axe
-C-Pap device
-dog

After a canoe and paddles, it's all pretty subjective.

If you bring it, you carry it.

We have a Googledoc spreadsheet with all the shared gear (saw, cook kit, TP, Water filter, first aid kit, etc.) and we assign items to people. Seems to work well. People always bring extra of some items ("personal" roll of TP or whatever) but everyone carries their own pack (we don't share packs) so it works out fine since they bear the burden of any extra weight themselves.

Our groups are base campers so not as critical on gear. That said we are taking 21 up this fall in three groups. Only rule: you carry what you bring. I assign one "camp leader" for each group who brings the camp cook gear, stoves and food and is responsible for preparing and cooking breakfast and dinner each day for his camp. No one else is allowed to bring cooking gear, food (except for lunch stuff while out), or stoves.

WE also limit each person to one large pack, and a small daypack while out.

Unas10: "
If you bring it, you carry it.
"

Bad advice. Any wasted weight brought by one member is shared by all members on a trip. Don't fool yourself.

This is a very common problem with larger groups. Everyone has favorite gear and you end up with 3 axes, 5 stoves, 4 water filters.
We kind of solved this in our groups by asking people who has what beforehand. Then the group leader makes sure that person packs it. One person for this another for that.
Then tell people in your group with a final email who is bringing what. We work off of a google docs gear list that I save and refer to each trip.

On the last trip, we had a Primus stove and fuel as part of the group gear but an individual also brought a Jet-Boil (and fuel). We had hand sanitizer, but an individual also brought sani-wipes--enough for four people for four days. An individual brought four pairs of footwear: 2 boots, 1 sandals and 1 slippers. The group gear had plenty of rope but individuals also brought additional rope. "You can never have too much rope" was the stated reasoning for this.

With all of that gear and extra gear, a decision was made for no portaging. We found a campsite on our entry lake and base-camped without moving. That meant only unpacking and packing the gear once. In the end, the people who brought the "extra" stuff really had fun using "their" items. Fun is what it is all about and it was unanimously agreed that trip was a great success

We normally have four guys, always double portage. Everyone brings there own personal gear, fishing gear and carries it. Communal items, cooking gear, food, and camp stuff split evenly between the two canoes. We had six guys about ten years ago, after committing one guy turned into a gear nazi tried to tell others what they could, could not bring to the point of being obnoxious and even wanted to go through everyone’s pack to remove excess gear (he didn’t). Have checked the news periodically over the years and to the best of my knowledge his remains have not been found. We have lists of what we bring for personal gear that we give to a new guy so they know how much we bring, and let’s them know what we take for clothes.
Experience is the only way to know what you need or don’t need.

mutz: "We normally have four guys, always double portage. Everyone brings there own personal gear, fishing gear and carries it. Communal items, cooking gear, food, and camp stuff split evenly between the two canoes. We had six guys about ten years ago, after committing one guy turned into a gear nazi tried to tell others what they could, could not bring to the point of being obnoxious and even wanted to go through everyone’s pack to remove excess gear (he didn’t). Have checked the news periodically over the years and to the best of my knowledge his remains have not been found. We have lists of what we bring for personal gear that we give to a new guy so they know how much we bring, and let’s them know what we take for clothes.
Experience is the only way to know what you need or don’t need."

The mutiny of my over preparation is a fear of mine. I always sleep with one eye open so I don't suffer that fate. :)

In my defense, it is all about expectation though IMO - if you plan to double portage then pack for that. We plan for quick single portaging days and getting far that first day. For my group this year I made all the dehydrated meals ahead of time for 6 guys 6 days and asked my group mates to leave room for 1 meal in each of their packs... Well only one of them did that so my pack suddenly got 15#s heavier. Then we get to camp and the guys who didn't have room have 2 rolls of TP in their bag and we had like 10 rolls total. It all adds up.

I solved that with a solo canoe.

AmarilloJim: "Go to Stuart lake"

LOL!! YAASSS! Since becoming a hiker, I've shredded more and more.

Groups are hard.

without reading the previous comments , my 2 cents is , with every trip you learn what you need and what you dont ;)
Nothing wrong with a luxury item . in my younger days never brought a pillow , just stuff a sweatshirt . now days i'm bringing my pillow ;)

bottomtothetap: "One of my favorite things about going to the BWCA is introducing new people to the wilderness and seeing in them a fresh discovery and excitement for this new adventure.

To those that have suggested going solo as a solution, solo doesn't really provide any solution to the above part of my OP at all.

Duckman: "

brux: "On trips I’m leading I hand group members a stuff sack that all their personal gear has to fit into except for dry shoes, sleeping bag and sleeping pad or hammock setup. Then I bring everything else. I guess I’m a control freak."

I'm the same. I will outfit the group I take with the exception of personal stuff (clothes and whatnot). The best approach I've found is handing them a stuff sack and saying this is the space you get.


I'm not necessarily an ultralight guy or a minimalist, but I have the packs and gear for 2 to 4 people cut down to pretty dang efficient. Everyone seems to appreciate it on a portage."

Ditto this

Did a trip earlier this year with the SO and both of our sons. I basically packed for three of us and her son packed his own. He’s been there several times and brought as much as the three of us combined.

I am really bad at over estimating fuel and TP, always bring a couple cans too many and a couple rolls too many. I do plan a little extra food taking the boys.

We’re heading in Saturday morning again, just the SO and myself. Pretty muck everything in two packs for 4 days.