My target is my sister and brother in law. They are most definitely always up for a road trip but that usually means a few bars on the way and ending at their cabin. I know they have some camping in their past. Younger years.

This is where you probably ask me why bother. I've been estranged from my family for some time. It really has nothing to do with my siblings. My father on the other hand wrecked me pretty bad. I'm 55 now and just learning how to deal with being in his presence. (absolutely no comments needed about this)

At any rate, I would like to see if I can persuade them to join us on a trip. Before you ask, no I haven't even put it past them yet. See above ^^^

The more I think about this as I type, it just seems so stupid to even be posting this but I relate more to this crowd than anything else. Sorry.

Never hurts to ask. Worst they can say is no. May open a new avenue of spending quality time together in a great place. Usually people just sense the enthusiasm in your voice as you talk about it and that alone intrigues them. Let it sell itself.

I suggest you simply ask of any interest for a trip to BW for next year. They may or may not, but they'll know of your invitation to go. Mention you are flexible in the dates and length of a trip they could go. Suggest an estimated cost as that may be a factor.

Do not "sell" the trip and they will not likely hold your invitation as a reason to hold the invitation against you. They can and should be given a date that you need to know so you can make reservations for your trip. This also does the work that you can stay away from in letting this go if they do not respond to you yes or no. Be prepared to accept a negative outcome to your overture.

Good luck. Have done this kind of effort and had to let possible trips slide past due to non-interest or response.

Ask and invite is a good strategy.
Coax and sell is not a good strategy.

Invite them and see what happens! Good Luck!

Another option is to craft a compromise...ask them to join you for a trip that includes a few days in the woods followed by a few days in a cabin in Ely. Best case they will ask to do a longer wilderness trip next year, and worst case they still got to enjoy a "road trip" vacation. Best of luck!

Frame the question by asking them if they want to plan a trip with you. Don't frame it as you inviting them on your trip that you've already planned out. No one will ever say "yes" to a pre-planned trip as it doesn't feel very welcoming. If they ask for more details on the trip, you can give them a broad idea (number of nights, move every day or basecamp, etc.), but don't be too specific up front, you want the planning to be done as a group.

Gman42: "Frame the question by asking them if they want to plan a trip with you. Don't frame it as you inviting them on your trip that you've already planned out. No one will ever say "yes" to a pre-planned trip as it doesn't feel very welcoming. If they ask for more details on the trip, you can give them a broad idea (number of nights, move every day or basecamp, etc.), but don't be too specific up front, you want the planning to be done as a group. "

I would go with this strategy. They will feel more like part of the "team".

FISHONFISHOFF

fishonfishoff: "

Gman42: "Frame the question by asking them if they want to plan a trip with you. Don't frame it as you inviting them on your trip that you've already planned out. No one will ever say "yes" to a pre-planned trip as it doesn't feel very welcoming. If they ask for more details on the trip, you can give them a broad idea (number of nights, move every day or basecamp, etc.), but don't be too specific up front, you want the planning to be done as a group. "

I would go with this strategy. They will feel more like part of the "team".


FISHONFISHOFF
"

I agree as well. Good luck!

Good advice so far. I always tell people there is a chance you will hate the trip and not come back, but you will NEVER EVER regret going. I've only had a few that the trip wasn't their thing, the mosquitos, it was cold, the portages ---the whole combo maybe--they aren't going to go again, but they are still proud they went and look back on the trips fondly.

T

You say they've camped, but don't say whether they're familiar with the BWCA. If not, maybe find a trip report or two that covers the type of trip (base camp? fishing? few portages? long travel? weekend only?) you'd consider with them and send them a link with the question about interest...

TZ

I agree with some of the above comments and maybe combine them together. Be flexible, don't try to oversell it right away, just be honest and open and see what the reaction is.

Invite them or at least mention you're going on it. Hey, I'm thinking about taking a trip to the ________area and wanted to see if ________ want to check it out.

And be flexible, if you know what they like.....beers and cabin....maybe let them do that on the way up or way back before or after the paddle part. Maybe they spend 2-4 days in the park with you and a few days at the cabin? You could stay out on your permit longer. Maybe they'd like a basecamp style trip where you bring in a stainless growler of beer and keep it cold in the lake?

I've made compromises before to get other folks on trips. Rented slower, more stable canoes so the less experienced paddlers were better off. Didn't go quite as far some days, etc. It's all good once you're up there.....you're still in the BW.

Gman42: "Frame the question by asking them if they want to plan a trip with you. Don't frame it as you inviting them on your trip that you've already planned out. No one will ever say "yes" to a pre-planned trip as it doesn't feel very welcoming. If they ask for more details on the trip, you can give them a broad idea (number of nights, move every day or basecamp, etc.), but don't be too specific up front, you want the planning to be done as a group. "

I actually disagree with this strategy in this situation. While getting people involved with the planning is great, it is very difficult to get someone to agree to an open ended idea without a plan AND follow through with it. If you want them to go with you, give them an outline of a plan that includes a date, length of trip, and an entry point. Everything should be flexible, but giving them a firm idea of what to expect gives them something to build expectations on.

I run into this all the time with my family. You ask them if they would like to go to the BWCA or hunting and people think it is a great idea. They will say that they would love to go and then it just never happens. So we started doing things a little differently. We always invite with a date and destination in mind that is flexible. For example, when my dad or brother invite me to go pheasant hunting in South Dakota, I think that sounds like a great idea but it hasn't happened in the last 5 years. But when my dad asked if I wanted to go hunting Halloween weekend, it was very close to being a yes and actually doing it. (Only a no because we are doing something for the kids for Halloween.)

okinaw55: "....The more I think about this as I type, it just seems so stupid to even be posting this but I relate more to this crowd than anything else. Sorry."

Oh come on, dude. You have 5 pine trees and you now this group. We love giving expert advice about topics with which we are marginally familiar! So, that said....family advice....

So my thinking is that you try to figure out what are the aspects of a road trip that are appealing to them, then try to figure out how a BWCA trip could line up with those aspects. You might have to modify your trip somewhat to accommodate what they like (e.g. more or less day travel, food, etc). Maybe the trip ends at their (or a rented) cabin just like the road trips they like? I do like the notion mentioned above about presenting it as something they may love or not - but by presenting it as something that YOU love and want to share whether they like it or not, that may be the hook.

Of course I offer this advice never having taken my sister or BIL, who both think I am close to insane for ever choosing to sleep on the ground when beds are an option.

Its worth a try. I tried to cajole my 2 daughters and their friend into going by promising a trip to mall of America and other site seeing. It didn't go as well as I hoped. They all wanted to bail out of the BW early (even though we had a good time) so it was a very short trip but at least I got to go and they had fun for the short time we were there. Next trip I am not going to compromise. I am going with someone who really gets it or I'm not going at all.

Wow. When I posted this i honestly didn't expect this kind of a response. I appreciate everyone chiming in. I think knowing my family that I can take a little of almost everyone's responses and come up with a plan.

What's odd is since posting this, I have been asked to join them at their cabin this winter for some cocktails and ice fishing. I think that might be the perfect time to "pop the question". Thank you all so much!

Hey,

This year was the first time I've hung out with my little brother in over 12 years. We didn't really get along for a long time, and now that we're both adults and a lot more mature, we get along great and he's one of my best friends. I bugged him for over 2 years, the first year there was a lot of apprehension and unease, then this year I brought it up again, we talked on the phone for a little while, shot the breeze, and then next thing I knew he had texted me he bought plane tickets from Colorado to come up on a BWCA trip with his son, my nephew.

I did EVERYTHING. I typically do EVERYTHING on trips I go on, I prepare ALL the food, bring ALL the group gear, and had extra gear for my brother and his son to use like extra sleeping bags, sleeping mats, dry bags and backpacks, I basically outfitted the whole trip for them minus a few things they brought. My advice is to prep as much as you possibly can for them, make things clear as a whistle, lay out what they'll need to do and bring, make it as straight forward as you can. More important than actually going is going and being prepared to go. If they don't go, they'll be more easily persuaded the next year, if they go and it's a horrible trip, they'll never go again, and it won't help your rocky relationships AT ALL!!! or it might?

GearDude: "Hey,


This year was the first time I've hung out with my little brother in over 12 years. We didn't really get along for a long time, and now that we're both adults and a lot more mature, we get along great and he's one of my best friends. I bugged him for over 2 years, the first year there was a lot of apprehension and unease, then this year I brought it up again, we talked on the phone for a little while, shot the breeze, and then next thing I knew he had texted me he bought plane tickets from Colorado to come up on a BWCA trip with his son, my nephew.


I did EVERYTHING. I typically do EVERYTHING on trips I go on, I prepare ALL the food, bring ALL the group gear, and had extra gear for my brother and his son to use like extra sleeping bags, sleeping mats, dry bags and backpacks, I basically outfitted the whole trip for them minus a few things they brought. My advice is to prep as much as you possibly can for them, make things clear as a whistle, lay out what they'll need to do and bring, make it as straight forward as you can. More important than actually going is going and being prepared to go. If they don't go, they'll be more easily persuaded the next year, if they go and it's a horrible trip, they'll never go again, and it won't help your rocky relationships AT ALL!!! or it might? "

Just wanted to add this year was the first time we had hung out in over 12 years, we went on a trip all the way to Knife Lake, about 5 hours into the day I realized "holy shit, we barely know each other and here we are, Knife lake....I hope this goes well". Went so well we got home and immediately planned a Fly Fishing trip to our home state of Montana together a month later in July, and we capped off the year with style by flying him and my nephew back to Minnesota this month for a fall BWCA trip too!!! Just got back on 10/10, was cold, dark, no fish, but I got to go on a 3rd trip with my bro, can't wait to plan the 4th trip together.

Take one part cabin, one part access to amenities and one part BWCA experience. Mix slowly:

Book accomodations at an outfitter/resort that offers a “tow” (actually a boat ride with canoe overhead on a rack) to a campsite on a lake like Seagull or Saganaga. They start with the familiar and comfortable and are then introduced to what makes the BWCA unique. But only with their enthusiastic agreement in advance.

okinaw55: "I think that might be the perfect time to "pop the question"....

Let us know how it goes. Good Luck!

I’m taking two groups of newbies this year because they saw pictures of our trip last year. Pictures lead to questions, questions lead to asking to go

Interesting this popped up again. I was pretty sure it was dead. For those curious, I had unsuccessful attempts at getting more family but I did give all a shot. In the end, my wife and I enjoyed perhaps our best vacation ever.

My daughter and her fiance' are definitely in but they have issues with time off etc.

In the end (at least this year), my wife of all people agreed to join me (unexpected) and we had the most fabulous time. I have to say honestly it was almost a marriage solidifying event that you see maybe 2-3 times in a marriage.

I have to convince a 16 year old with a newly minted drivers license, plus a girlfriend (he hinted at that, so I'm not sure) to go this summer. So far, kinda halfway to the goal. He didn't say no, but he didn't say yes. He did say no more portages like the one this year (he meant the Mudro to Sandpit portage), which I assured him we wouldn't do. So I will make the permit for two people, and if he doesn't go, I'll just cancel him and go solo.

Bearpath9: "I have to convince a 16 year old with a newly minted drivers license, plus a girlfriend (he hinted at that, so I'm not sure) to go this summer. So far, kinda halfway to the goal. He didn't say no, but he didn't say yes. He did say no more portages like the one this year (he meant the Mudro to Sandpit portage), which I assured him we wouldn't do. So I will make the permit for two people, and if he doesn't go, I'll just cancel him and go solo. "

LOL I don't even approach portages and picking up, setting back down camp. I leave that to them with always some options. The friends I have gone with in the past have bounced all over in their opinion with base camp or moving. Personally I'm fine with both.

In September when my wife went with me for the first time, I wanted it to be a good experience and an introduction to the BWCA. I didn't want it to be something she thought was too hard and then have a negative reaction to the trip.

I've since been showing her route options etc, I think I have my forever BWCA partner in her now. Which honestly negates my interest in others going with me. I know, odd I started this thread with wanting to reach out to family but ... I have my mate now. :)

okinaw55: "In the end (at least this year), my wife, of all people, agreed to join me (unexpected) and we had the most fabulous time. I have to say, honestly, it was almost a marriage-solidifying event that you see maybe 2-3 times in a marriage."

Wow, that's great, okinaw. Sounds like you had a wonderful time.

I had always been a base camper with my wife. I wanted to do some loop trips, but wanted her to get excited about it. We went to Canoecopia (I know that's not possible in 2021), and that was a big catalyst. She went to lots of seminars, learned a lot, and got excited to go.

Then I started buying lighter weight gear. Something would show up on our door step, every couple weeks. It was like Christmas, spread out over March, April and May. She had fun with that too.

Then I had her watch this video, which sold her on the specific loop. We more or less copied the itinerary. Thank you to the videographer who posted it. We had a great time. I will cherish it forever.

Little Indian Sioux North

analyzer: "I had always been a base camper with my wife. I wanted to do some loop trips, but wanted her to get excited about it. We went to Canoecopia (I know that's not possible in 2021), and that was a big catalyst. She went to lots of seminars, learned a lot, and got excited to go.

Then I started buying lighter weight gear. Something would show up on our door step, every couple weeks. It was like Christmas, spread out over March, April and May. She had fun with that too.

Then I had her watch this video, which sold her on the specific loop. We more or less copied the itinerary. Thank you to the videographer who posted it. We had a great time. I will cherish it forever.

Little Indian Sioux North "

That's a great story. I may use some of these tactics next year. I was telling her we have to decide on a route soon, permits go on sale next month. :) \

I was laughed at ....

okinaw55: "

analyzer: "I had always been a base camper with my wife. I wanted to do some loop trips, but wanted her to get excited about it. We went to Canoecopia (I know that's not possible in 2021), and that was a big catalyst. She went to lots of seminars, learned a lot, and got excited to go.


Then I started buying lighter weight gear. Something would show up on our door step, every couple weeks. It was like Christmas, spread out over March, April and May. She had fun with that too.


Then I had her watch this video, which sold her on the specific loop. We more or less copied the itinerary. Thank you to the videographer who posted it. We had a great time. I will cherish it forever.


Little Indian Sioux North "

That's a great story. I may use some of these tactics next year. I was telling her we have to decide on a route soon, permits go on sale next month. :) \


I was laughed at .... "

It worked well. She likes to go camping, so that made it easier. She just wasn't necessarily into a portage type trip. It was fun the way she got into it. I thought she might be bored at Canoecopia, but it was quite the opposite. On the 5 hour drive to Madison, she was looking over the schedule, and mapping out every seminar she wanted to attend. She was on task all weekend.

Then the stuff I was buying online, started showing up at the door. She would just go "oooh, now what did WE get!!" First I ordered some down sleeping bags. Then we purchased one set of pads, and didn't like them, and returned them for Expeds. She loved those. Spent a night in the living room on the new pads to try them out. And learned how to blow them up with the little nylon sacks. It's like wrestling an otter, but you get the hang of it, after a couple tries. Then a dragon fly stove showed up. Then I picked up a couple used, good condition, bent shaft paddles. Then we got a couple of those knock-off, light weight camp chairs. The knock offs worked great. love em. I already had a couple sealline packs, but picked up some granite gear, under seat storage packs. She likes those two, it keeps all the little stuff up and out of the way. Ordered new water filters, and bungie-dealy-bobs or whatever they're called.

As soon as it got nice out, we took the packs, put some stuff in them, and worked on our endurance at the local nature center. She had fun with that too. We started light, with just like 15 lbs, and would add 5 lbs every few days. We tried to walk off path, on the dirt, going up and down hills, and over tree roots stuff like that. We would walk a mile with the pack, drop it off at the car, walk a mile without, and then walk another with weight again.

At 5'0, she's not a very big gal, and I'm glad we practiced, because I learned she didn't feel comfortable carrying more than 25 lbs. Instead of having her carry 35-40 lb packs, which would have been tough on her back and knees (we're in our mid 50s), and might have made for a miserable trip, we just tripled portaged, and split everything up into smaller bags for her. We had about 10 or 11 miles in portages, so triple portaging, changes that to 30-33 under load, and another 20-22 without load. 50-55 in total. I'm not thrilled about triple portaging, but it was just the two of us, and we were in no hurry to get anywhere. We just took our time and enjoyed ourselves. It's kinda nice to at least double portage, in my opinion, because i want to see the portage. Some are really pretty, with little creeks and waterfalls, and flowers etc. If you look at them in a positive light, instead of drudgery, they're just part of the fun. After all, some people go on hiking trips, with no lakes. It's all "portage", so to speak.

Then in May we bought a new Northwind 17. I would have liked to have had a little practice in that before we go, but we had to settle for one quick trip on a lake. In hindsight, I think I would have just rented. We'll use it many more times, but I probably should have spent some time in a few different models before I picked one.

At some point, I took her to an outdoors store, and went shopping with her for some nylon and polyster camping clothes. Got her some new darn tough wool socks, and new footwear. By the time we were ready to go, she was very excited to wear the new clothes, and try out the new gear. She looked like a seasoned veteran.

We had never worn head nets before, but I'll say there was two portages, we were glad we had them. Otherwise the bugs were fairly non-existant for our trip. Which helped. They had a hard freeze a couple days before our early june trip, and it killed the bug hatch for a few days. That was nice.

When people say they have camped before, that generally means in a state or national park with restrooms, hot water, picnic table, elctricity and water at the site.

If I was bringing a group of first timers. . .particularly men and women. . .that had "camped" as noted above, the first year would be staying in cabins directly on the lake and doing day trips out on the lakes and exploring. Show them what the camp sites look like and get their interest up. Let them be the ones to bring up "lets try camping on one of the sites next year".

The BWCA experience does not mean it has to be multiple days of primitive camping, setting up and taking down camp each day, multiple portages and bringing the group back exhausted and begging for showers.

Analyzer said: "At 5'0, she's not a very big gal, and I'm glad we practiced, because I learned she didn't feel comfortable carrying more than 25 lbs. Instead of having her carry 35-40 lb packs, which would have been tough on her back and knees (we're in our mid 50s), and might have made for a miserable trip, we just tripled portaged, and split everything up into smaller bags for her."

You brought the wrong shortie. :). Our niece is under 5' but had just finished 3.5 years in the Israeli infantry. So she was basically a young pack mule. What we had to do was move more weight from her husband's pack to hers. That was a little hard on his ego, even though he was carrying the canoe, because as a former Air Force navigator he wanted to be tough like her.

The really excellent point Analyzer makes, and something I learned more and more over the years including that trip with our niece, is that everyone is individual and has their own strengths, weaknesses, and interests. Adapting to the individuals makes for great trips.