BWCA Sleep System? Boundary Waters Winter Camping and Activities
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ssava
senior member (72)senior membersenior member
  
11/30/2020 02:46PM  
For my upcoming first experience hot tenting trip late January, Ill probably rent a -30 sleeping bag. For my only prior winter cold tenting, I used 2 40 deg bags but lows barely dipped into the single digits that time

Does anyone NOT use a similar bag and appropriate cold pads? I see myself doing more winter camping but shelling out $500+ for yet another bag that wont see much use isn't cost effective.
 
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tonyyarusso
distinguished member(1403)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/30/2020 03:41PM  
Years ago the advice I got was to not bother with any sleeping bags with ratings below zero, and instead stack two bags for those temperatures. Which two bags depends on the forecast - I can do down to two zero-degree bags if needed. That's been for cold camping, but it would be even more useful for a hot tent where you have a wider range of temperatures.
dhfish
member (41)member
  
12/01/2020 12:36PM  
Not an expert, but in my tent with a stove I use a closed cell foam pad topped with a military surplus wool blanket, and a 15deg bag. If I feel like it I add a Costco down throw, but its not needed. Its not ultralight gear like you want for canoeing, but I dont worry about getting a little water on it, and theres plenty of room on the toboggan.
12/01/2020 01:49PM  
I agree with the two posts above. Depending on the temps you will actually be in, there are likely options to put different pieces of gear together rather than look to one sleeping bag. I used a 15º and an old 20º bag together for a number of hot tent trips and was always comfortable down to the -15 to -20 range. I only invested in a warmer -40 bag when I knew I was going to be out on 2 trips during a deep cold phase where temps could hit -30 or worse. By the way, I took that -40 bag last March when it only bottomed out at about +15-20 at night, and I was miserable from being too warm. I'm not sure I'd trust a +40º bag much, but there are lots of ways to improve the warmth of a 0-15º bag.
ssava
senior member (72)senior membersenior member
  
12/02/2020 11:38AM  
Thanks for the replies! Pretty much the advice I was hoping for.

I'll combine what I have, 20deg and 40deg and multiple pads out on my deck beforehand to test out the system before I head out. Ill also look into a heavy fleece liner if the 2 bags aren't doing it.

I've also come across inexpensive bags from Wiggy's that seem legit.
12/02/2020 08:13PM  
Wiggy’s is legit. I think their stuff is at a pretty fair price for pretty good stuff. Their bags might just be a bit bulkier and heavier than some, but will get the job done. I’ve read their bags a fairly popular with mushers who need warm bags that can take some punishment. I think their overbags look pretty good, but have not seen up close. I even talked to Wiggy himself once - that was a trip - a 45 minute lecture on the shortcomings of down. It was amusing, he really believes in his stuff.
SevenofNine
distinguished member(2472)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
12/04/2020 02:24PM  
I was out in November and used a 20 degree quilt over a 15F sleeping bag. I was quite warm once I fixed an issue with my sleeping pad. I could feel the cold through my sleeping pad which kind of surprised me as it is an Exped downmat 9. I slipped a sleeping bag liner over the pad which covered two sides of the pad. Then I was warm and actually woke up too warm at one point.

Ratings by bag and quilt manufacturers are survival ratings so I always take them with a grain of salt. I wear mid weight long underwear and a wool balaclava.

I will definitely bring more sleeping pads and some Reflectix next trip. Nothing sucks heat like the cold ground.

FYI:
Quilt is an Elightened Equipment 20°F
Sleeping bag is a Marmot 15°F
CRL
senior member (85)senior membersenior member
  
12/05/2020 09:04AM  
I used to be a field instructor for Voyageur Outward Bound School from 2004-2008. Our dog sledding/skiing expeditions were typically 7-18 nights from December through March. Though we carried a wall tent for group meals we almost always slept under tarps rigged A-style (i.e. cold tent). Night temps on longer courses could easily range from above freezing to -40. Our students and most instructors used 2 ensolite Ridge Rests and a 0 degree synthetic and a 20 degree down inner bag. I personally used a 1/2 ensolite and a 3/4" Therm a Rest, a 0 degree extra long Mountain Hardware Polarguard 3D and a 20 degree Feathered Friends inner bag. I used my Feathered Friends on all my summer courses, too. (This bag could see easily 150+ nights in the field in a typical year). This system worked very well and I was very careful to monitor how warm I was so I wouldn't sweat out my bags. This was especially important on long, cold courses because ice can start to accumulate within the insulation of your bags just from your body's transpiration. The idea on the down inner and synthetic outer was that any body moisture would "drive" through the inner and if it started to condense and freeze it would start to do so in the synthetic outer. Yes, after 14+ days at -30- -40 night temps your outer bag would crinkle with ice crystals as you stuffed (using liner gloves to avoid contact frostbite) in the morning. I typically slept in dry wool socks and synthetic long underwear.
Model94
senior member (61)senior membersenior member
  
09/23/2021 08:13PM  
Wiggy's are great. Kind of bulky but they are good bags especially if you have the oversized overbag. that can be combined with a wiggy's 20 or 0 bag or even better, a 20 degree bag you might already have.
ssava
senior member (72)senior membersenior member
  
09/28/2021 10:58AM  
CRL: "I used to be a field instructor for Voyageur Outward Bound School from 2004-2008. Our dog sledding/skiing expeditions were typically 7-18 nights from December through March. Though we carried a wall tent for group meals we almost always slept under tarps rigged A-style (i.e. cold tent). Night temps on longer courses could easily range from above freezing to -40. Our students and most instructors used 2 ensolite Ridge Rests and a 0 degree synthetic and a 20 degree down inner bag. I personally used a 1/2 ensolite and a 3/4" Therm a Rest, a 0 degree extra long Mountain Hardware Polarguard 3D and a 20 degree Feathered Friends inner bag. I used my Feathered Friends on all my summer courses, too. (This bag could see easily 150+ nights in the field in a typical year). This system worked very well and I was very careful to monitor how warm I was so I wouldn't sweat out my bags. This was especially important on long, cold courses because ice can start to accumulate within the insulation of your bags just from your body's transpiration. The idea on the down inner and synthetic outer was that any body moisture would "drive" through the inner and if it started to condense and freeze it would start to do so in the synthetic outer. Yes, after 14+ days at -30- -40 night temps your outer bag would crinkle with ice crystals as you stuffed (using liner gloves to avoid contact frostbite) in the morning. I typically slept in dry wool socks and synthetic long underwear."


Good stuff here, thank you! Covid ruined this planned trip last winter but I am
attempting the Arrowhead 135 on 1/31 from Ifalls by bike. I just picked up a Wiggys -20 bag so if forecast lows call for colder than I may add a down summer bag as the inner as you state. Race requires a bivvy bag but I read that condensation is always a problem so best not to use unless active rain or snow? Hoping 1 closed cell pad will work well enough for a couple hours emergency sleep that I expect to need!
ppine
distinguished member (213)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/09/2021 10:55AM  
I have been using canvas tents with stoves for 40 years. If you are new at it, it is hard to imagine how warm the tent can be. No need for a -30 degree bag. Bring the bag you have. I like wool Pendleton blankets inside a canvas bed roll. With a good pad, a +20 degree bag is all you need.
Gadfly
distinguished member (462)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/11/2021 11:24AM  
ppine: "I have been using canvas tents with stoves for 40 years. If you are new at it, it is hard to imagine how warm the tent can be. No need for a -30 degree bag. Bring the bag you have. I like wool Pendleton blankets inside a canvas bed roll. With a good pad, a +20 degree bag is all you need. "


It is certainly warm while you have the stove going. Many people might not want to be up tending the stove all night long and may let it go out. Once you stop tending the stove it will cool off very fast inside the tent. I wouldn't want to be in a +20 degree bag when it hits 30 to 40 below outside.
10/11/2021 07:48PM  
ppine: ".... it is hard to imagine how warm the tent can be..... "


Yes, it is warm and comfortable while you tend the fire. I don't fire-tend while sleeping, though, so a comfortable, rated bag is necessary.
11/03/2021 10:55AM  
SevenofNine: "I was out in November and used a 20 degree quilt over a 15F sleeping bag. I was quite warm once I fixed an issue with my sleeping pad. I could feel the cold through my sleeping pad which kind of surprised me as it is an Exped downmat 9. I slipped a sleeping bag liner over the pad which covered two sides of the pad. Then I was warm and actually woke up too warm at one point.


Ratings by bag and quilt manufacturers are survival ratings so I always take them with a grain of salt. I wear mid weight long underwear and a wool balaclava.


I will definitely bring more sleeping pads and some Reflectix next trip. Nothing sucks heat like the cold ground.


FYI:
Quilt is an Elightened Equipment 20°F
Sleeping bag is a Marmot 15°F"


I have a similar setup to 7o'9.... an EE 20° bag that I'll couple with a Kelty 20° mummy unzipped and thrown over like a big overquilt, on top of an Exped Synmat 9LW rated to -9°. I also have a piece of reflectex that's cut to fit my tent floor like an innie. I've comfortably slept out with this setup to -12°.
11/10/2021 04:07PM  
Exped 7 or 9 syn or down- In my experience either will insulate to -35.
-25 WM Puma with base layer unzipped good to -35.

Let the fire go out and sleep all night.
 
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